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| #1DuskweaverSep 04, 2010 2:07:46 | I'm throwing together some ideas for my first DS campaign (far in advance of when I'm likely to be running it) and I will probably have the PCs interacting with Nibenay's Temple of Thought fairly early on in the campaign, with either Siemhouk or one of her underlings serving as the party's first 'patron'. The problem is that I do not have access to any pre-4e material concerning Siemhouk, so all I know about her is in the 4e DSCS. Now, I feel no particular need to be tied inextricably to pre-4e canon, since none of my players have more than a passing familiarity with DS, but I always like to know what the canon actually is before I smash it to pieces and re-make it to my own liking. ![]() So, what does the pre-4e material (including the novels, which I've never actually read) tell us about Siemhouk? I understand she's basically just a kid, but just how young is she in the year of Kalak's death (which is when my campaign will start)? What does she look like? Perhaps most importantly, is she actually evil? By which I mean, I assume she's done some fairly evil stuff in service to the Shadow King (Mengele-like experiments etc.), but is that just because she's been 'brainwashed' by him and doesn't know any better since he is the only 'parent' (slash-cradle-snatching-husband) she's ever known, or is she just a sadistic monster who probably would have turned out just as bad even with a 'normal' upbringing? If something were to happen to the Shadow King, would she be potentially 'redeemable'? (It's possibly worth mentioning here that the idea of a teenager being irredeemably evil might offend some of my players' sensibilities. We don't really go in for the concept of "if its stat block says it's evil, you can kill it with no moral qualms" in our games.) And how is the Temple of Thought structured? How 'hands-on' is Siemhouk? Could a lower-ranking shadow-wife in the Temple plausibly send PCs out on missions without Siemhouk knowing about it? Could such a shadow-wife be conducting magical experiments without Siemhouk being aware (at least of the details)? More importantly, would Siemhouk actually care or actually try to find out about such things, or does she concern herself more with her own research and leave the other shadow-wives in the Temple more or less to their own devices? Oh, and can/does Siemhouk even do arcane magic, or is she exclusively a psionicist? Can she actually do anything other than her trademark beast-calming thing? Is there any chance that she'd be carrying out any research other than that directly related to using her beast-calming talent to get the Shadow King past the rampage phase of the draconic metamorphosis (which I gather is the sole reason he 'adopted' her)? What happened to her family? Did the Shadow King have them 'silenced', or was Siemhouk an orphan when he 'adopted' her? Or is this never mentioned? Now, I assume most of this probably isn't answered explicitly in the 'official' fluff. I'm interested in people's opinions and interpretations too, but please make clear whether what you are saying is directly based on published 'official' fluff or not, because I obviously can't check up on it and I'd like to avoid the sort of heated arguments a certain other thread seems to have devolved into... ;) Oh yeah, and how in blazes do you pronounce her damn name? ![]() |
| #2Wolf505Sep 04, 2010 2:39:29 | The only mention I could find of her was in The Will and the Way where it mentions that she is 14 years old and a 15th level Templar and 14th level Psionicist, and head of the Temple of Thought. The Will and the Way was part of the original 2nd edition run, so it can be assumed this information is roughly as of Kalak's death- as opposed to the revised edition which is set ten years later. Since she spends most of her time in the Shadow King's court, she leaves most of the day-to-day administration of the school to a master named Chagrama, so it shouldn't be hard to have things go on behind her back. That's pretty much all I found on her. |
| #3PennarinSep 04, 2010 3:05:52 | She probably isn't 15 anymore, but still, even if she was...she would no longer be an NPC but rather a "monster", i.e. without a class. She might be level 15-20, with lots of psionic-themed powers, and a few commanding-theme powers from her templar background. Siemhouk wouldn't be evil, or at least not Chaotic Evil. She was a child recruited by Nibenay himself, protected and taught by him. She would have a daughter-father relationship with him, or at least a concubine-raised-young-to-be-my-future-wife relationship. She's the most likely templar or person of authority in Nibenay's entourage to sympathize or support the plight of the PCs, and also the most likely to not lift a finger or actively act against the 'heroic' PCs if they are attempting to do something foolish like free Rajaat, as she's probably versed in many of the deepest secrets known to Nibenay and know her husband has his place on Athas and that the city and perhaps the Tyr Region could fall without his presence (and the presence of the other SKs, and of the Dragon). The Shadow King's confidantes - his son Dhojakt, his preferred templar Siemhouk, and a few high concubines - would know secrets no one else on Athas has known for the past thousand years. |
| #4Duke5150Sep 04, 2010 3:21:25 | In Addition to what Wolf posted...
Show The highest ranking templar in nibenay's court. Born within the Naggaramakam to a high templar who died during child birth. Raised by the shadow king since infancy, the child has shown extraordinary psionic and magical abilities. Traveled across the tablelands and into other planes as she gained mastery over her talents. She shows a greater command of templar magic than any of nibenay's wives. One day she could equal the psionic power of nibenay's most skilled augurs. She has displayed an unprecedented psionic wild talent know only to herself and nibenay. She has the ability to allay beastial rages and may be able to calmn even those states that seize dragons as they advance towards maturity. Nibenay hopes to move through the beastial stafes without having to leave or destroy his city. Formally the Pandita, high priestess of the chamber of air. Traditionally, the high templar of the chamber of order would have authority over her [siemhouk], however the shadowking has made it clear that this is not to be the case. |
| #5DuskweaverSep 05, 2010 4:01:14 | I love this place. ![]() 14 years old and a 15th level Templar and 14th level Psionicist, and head of the Temple of Thought. OK, that's pretty much as I thought. So, if she were a PC, she'd be a mid-to-high paragon tier telepathic psion with the templar theme, right? Not that I'd ever use PC stats for her, of course, but that gives me something to work from. The PCs may end up having to escort her somewhere (maybe while being assailed by Dhojakt's minions), so I might need a statblock for her at some point. Since she spends most of her time in the Shadow King's court, she leaves most of the day-to-day administration of the school to a master named Chagrama, so it shouldn't be hard to have things go on behind her back. Do we know anything about Chagrama? I take it she's another shadow-wife, but are we ever told her age, race, etc.? (It's probably safe to assume she's human, right? Am I right in thinking non-human templars are new to 4e?) She probably isn't 15 anymore, I initially thought you were talking about her age and I was going to mention that the 4e DSCS specifically states that some girls become shadow-wives on their 16th birthday, so WotC obviously haven't decided to totally back away from the slightly creepy paedo overtones of Nibenay. But then I realised you were probably referring to her level anyway... ETA: Having just re-read the section on Nibenay, the DSCS explicitly gives Siemhouk's age as 15 in the new canon. The campaign will probably run from mid-heroic to mid-paragon tier, so level 15 would be about right for her. That's assuming she ends up even needing a statblock for my purposes, since the PCs probably won't be fighting her (they won't even be meeting her in person unless they decide to keep working for her after they realise who their mysterious 'patron' actually is). Siemhouk wouldn't be evil, or at least not Chaotic Evil. She was a child recruited by Nibenay himself, protected and taught by him. She would have a daughter-father relationship with him, or at least a concubine-raised-young-to-be-my-future-wife relationship. So (since my group uses the pre-4e alignment system), probably lawful neutral, right? Would it be too much of a stretch to have her actually worship the Shadow King as a deity? To me, that seems to fit with the weird incestuous position he holds as both husband and (perhaps literally) father to her... She's the most likely templar or person of authority in Nibenay's entourage to sympathize or support the plight of the PCs, Would she really support them without them being useful to her in some way, though? OK, she might not actually be evil, but is there any evidence she'd ever be willing to stick her neck out for people without having some ulterior motive? Would it work on an "I wonder what will happen if I do this?" sort of level? As in, she helps out the PCs just because she's interested to see what these unlikely 'heroes' can achieve if they're set loose in the world? Hmm... the entire campaign being a psychological experiment being run from behind the scenes by a creepy teenage girl who just wants to understand what it's like to be a regular human(oid) being in this world. That actually sounds like it might be fun. ![]() and also the most likely to not lift a finger or actively act against the 'heroic' PCs if they are attempting to do something foolish like free Rajaat The campaign won't be high enough level to bring Rajaat into it (except as the secret motivation behind the tieflings in my interpretation of DS) or seriously challenge the Shadow King. Our current (PoLand) campaign is all about saving the world from Tharizdun, so I want something much smaller in scale this time around. Born within the Naggaramakam to a high templar who died during child birth. OK, so the Shadow King is her only family. That's useful. Do we know for certain he was her actual biological father? I'm unclear on just how seriously your average shadow-wife takes her wedding vows... ![]() She has displayed an unprecedented psionic wild talent know only to herself and nibenay. I hadn't realised her unique ability was a secret. Dhojakt's enmity makes more sense now, since he obviously can't appreciate how important Siemhouk is to their father. Her rapid rise must seem very strange to everyone else in Nibenay. I'm sure there are raised eyebrows and knowing winks among those who wonder what the SK really sees in her... ![]() Formally the Pandita, high priestess of the chamber of air. Traditionally, the high templar of the chamber of order would have authority over her [siemhouk], however the shadowking has made it clear that this is not to be the case. Again, this is new to me and therefore useful. This is the sort of detail I was hoping for. I assume the high templar of the Chamber of Order is somewhat peeved at this situation? And are these chambers part of the Temple of Thought? She is a very troubling person. Seems to have had all emotions and imaginations stripped. Almost never speaks and only answers direct questions, seldom giving more than one word answers. Years of living under the rule of the shadowking has left her spirit boken and taught her the value of prompt obedience. Hmm... This seems to be at odds with what's in the 4e DSCS, which states that she's a "harsh tutor". Now, I've been a tutor. Harsh or otherwise, you simply can't tutor anyone if you "almost never speak and only answer direct questions, seldom giving more than one word answers". I think this is one piece of the old fluff I will disregard. NPCs with no discernible personality are not very interesting. She also uses her wild talent to calm the...(don't want to spoil it) PM me if you don't want to state it here. I'm unlikely ever to read the novels or use any of the 2e published adventures, so I don't care if you spoil the plot of any of them. I'd like to know what her talent can actually do, though. Siemhouk looks like a child with white hair tied in a top knot. OK, and she's a native Nibenayan, right? So she'd presumably look at least vaguely Asian? |
| #6Pashalik_MonsSep 05, 2010 4:11:39 |
I like the slightly creepy paedo overtones of Nibenay. Brings home the depravity a bit, or, depending on your view, brings home that relatively few cultures hold an age as late as 18 to be the age of consent. Or both. I like both. |