Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 doppelganger Aug 18, 2010 12:34:36	Does inherent fire resistance (like what tieflings have) assist characters in minimizing sun sickness or overheating from heavy armor?
#2 soyim Aug 18, 2010 12:45:17	No. Sun Sickness functions like a Disease- not like an Elemental Attack. Even races that do not get tired or need to eat or drink are still theoretically vulnerable to it by RAW (Living Constructs, Undead).
#3 FlashbackJon Aug 18, 2010 12:56:20	By RAW, no, as neither of those are fire damage.
#4 Phobos Aug 18, 2010 13:04:36	No. Sun Sickness functions like a Disease- not like an Elemental Attack. Even races that do not get tired or need to eat or drink are still theoretically vulnerable to it by RAW (Living Constructs, Undead). Not as a dispute, but I am curious how?  I ask becuase I know I will need to explain this to my group when their warforged comes over. If you have no need to eat, or drink.  You are not affected by lack of air (underwater or sand), and I believe the books (maybe I'm pulling 3e details forward by mistake) say that temeratures do no affect you, how then does sun sickness?? It is simply because they made it a disease (for this very reason) and if that's the case, what about immune to disease?  I'm not trying to find a way around it, more to find a plug to the questions! Oh, and margionally related... how many days of survival supplies can one person carry?
#5 rollawaythestone Aug 18, 2010 13:10:06	The defiled sun of Athas drains and warps the very life on the barren planet. Moisture and life essence is slowly drained by the blazing orb. The warforged will crack and warp in the sun. It's wood plating would discolor and split. Dust, sand, and heat will damage it's functioning.
#6 soyim Aug 18, 2010 13:15:02	While they designed Sun Sickness as a disease i don't think immunity to disease would help because the attack comes from THE WORLD ITSELF.  (I'm not making that up; under Sun Sickness it says that Athas itself makes this attack.)  That being said as DM its clearly your choice if immunity to disease protects you from Sun Sickness. Just be aware that a Warforged never has to deal with all the innate problems of survival in Athas allready- and that a lot of the worlds harshness comes from this need to find food, water, shelter. If you need a reason why the Warforged is succumbing to this; assume that their is a constant low level of defiling magic going on- the sun literally drawing his life out of him; he needs to find a way to replenish his energy by hunkering down with the rest of the party.
#7 tavitin Aug 18, 2010 13:28:01	While they designed Sun Sickness as a disease i don't think immunity to disease would help because the attack comes from THE WORLD ITSELF.  (I'm not making that up; under Sun Sickness it says that Athas itself makes this attack.)  That being said as DM its clearly your choice if immunity to disease protects you from Sun Sickness. Just be aware that a Warforged never has to deal with all the innate problems of survival in Athas allready- and that a lot of the worlds harshness comes from this need to find food, water, shelter. If you need a reason why the Warforged is succumbing to this; assume that their is a constant low level of defiling magic going on- the sun literally drawing his life out of him; he needs to find a way to replenish his energy by hunkering down with the rest of the party.  Or constantly find replacement parts. Imagine how cool an epic warforged would look with 20 lvls or more with everyday replacement parts "Everything i kill i bring some of it with me"
#8 Mand12 Aug 18, 2010 13:51:40	While they designed Sun Sickness as a disease i don't think immunity to disease would help because the attack comes from THE WORLD ITSELF.  (I'm not making that up; under Sun Sickness it says that Athas itself makes this attack.)  That being said as DM its clearly your choice if immunity to disease protects you from Sun Sickness. Just be aware that a Warforged never has to deal with all the innate problems of survival in Athas allready- and that a lot of the worlds harshness comes from this need to find food, water, shelter. If you need a reason why the Warforged is succumbing to this; assume that their is a constant low level of defiling magic going on- the sun literally drawing his life out of him; he needs to find a way to replenish his energy by hunkering down with the rest of the party.  I would argue that this is counterbalanced by the issue that the Warforged would have to deal with roving bandits attempting to incapacitate and dismantle him in order to steal the metal bits he's made of.
#9 Pennarin Aug 18, 2010 13:59:56	This being Dark Sun, it's warforged are not made with metal. Bone, wood, chitin, stone (obsidian, crystal).
#10 Mand12 Aug 18, 2010 14:31:35	But what if you're an expensive, luxury Warforged?
#11 tavitin Aug 18, 2010 14:36:22	But what if you're an expensive, luxury Warforged? Rest assured that you will rot in display within an SK hall
#12 Mand12 Aug 18, 2010 14:57:18	Sounds like a nice epic destiny.
#13 Duke5150 Aug 18, 2010 19:19:11	Unless you houserule it, you cannot salvage resources from warforged. Either one of the eberron books goes into this or it was hellcow who cleared this up. While the ignorant could kill a warforged for its metal, it would be disappointed when that metal instantly dissolved or rusted or turned to jello. Whatever happens as a result, I can't remember. This being Dark Sun, it's warforged are probably not made with metal(IMO). Bone, wood, chitin, stone (obsidian, crystal). Fixed that for you, since there is no official stance on it, we don't know. They could be from the ancient days when metal wasn't scarce, or warforged could be very rare, which would make it perfectly acceptable to be made of iron, copper and other rare metals. Personally, if I played a warforged in darksun, I'd want it to have an athasian feel, so I'd go with petrified wood, gemstone and chitin, with the metal parts being detail work.
#14 Phobos Aug 18, 2010 19:23:44	I asked because my group is being transported to DS, and DS happens to be post apocalyptic Eberron a few thousands years into the future.  Its a long story, and I think my plot line is a good one, it will be 2 months before we make the jump (helps me with plot and because wotc is slow on cb changes) and then they will litterally use a (wait for it....) stargate-like devide to make the jump while chasing a dragon who has plagued them for the past 5 levels. Anyway, they will come across "as is" and I PLAN to have the heat and lack of repair ability force the warforged to replace his plating with natural items.  I also PLAN to make this very obvious when they jump because I plan to put them x days out of the nearest town/village and if I plan it right, that's Y days past their current food supply, so I hope to hit them hard ot push the point of the world. Anyway, I think based on all the advice from a millions posts, and because warforged are metal, and living wood... (normally that fed of the very environment that produced it) I plan to make the environment now, fail to keep the wood alive.  He will not need food still, but he must cool and moisten his core. :P
#15 gwydion9 Aug 18, 2010 23:35:51	Not as a dispute, but I am curious how?  I ask becuase I know I will need to explain this to my group when their warforged comes over. There is nothing in the warforged racial writeup that makes them immune to disease, as odd as that sounds.  Therefore, they can get diseases like sun sickness. If you have no need to eat, or drink.  You are not affected by lack of air (underwater or sand), and I believe the books (maybe I'm pulling 3e details forward by mistake) say that temeratures do no affect you, how then does sun sickness?? There is nothing in the warforged racial writeup that gives them any resistance to "temperature."  All it actually says is that they never need to make endurance rolls related to starvation, thirst, or suffocation.  That alone is a huge benefit on athas, where managing food and water is such a big deal. It is simply because they made it a disease (for this very reason) and if that's the case, what about immune to disease?  Warforged are not immune to disease. I'm not trying to find a way around it, more to find a plug to the questions! Oh, and margionally related... how many days of survival supplies can one person carry? A survival day weighs eight pounds.  You can carry as many as your strength allows.
#16 FlashbackJon Aug 19, 2010 9:08:54	Similarly, I'm having a bit of trouble incorporating the Shardmind one of my players wants to field.  I have no problem subjecting him to Sun Sickness, but rather I'm having a hard time coming up with a "survival days" mechanic. Whatever it ends up being, I didn't want to simply gloss over an important racial feature, so I'll probably allow a survival day to account for 48 or 72 hours for the living construct instead of 24.
#17 morskittar Aug 19, 2010 11:05:07	Similarly, I'm having a bit of trouble incorporating the Shardmind one of my players wants to field.  I have no problem subjecting him to Sun Sickness, but rather I'm having a hard time coming up with a "survival days" mechanic. Whatever it ends up being, I didn't want to simply gloss over an important racial feature, so I'll probably allow a survival day to account for 48 or 72 hours for the living construct instead of 24.  I have a player interested in a Shardmind.  I plan on having Survival Days represent something like clothing (to prevent his crystal body from becoming scalding hot and cracking in the sun) or amulets and torcs made of a common crystal or stone that leech some of the sun's radiation, keeping his body clear and intact.
#18 Pennarin Aug 19, 2010 11:35:02	It's no big deal if Shardminds and Warforged have no need for survival days (but Sun Sickness has had cool conversion on this board to make it compatible with them), it's usually only one party member. This can even help out, as that member can forge ahead (no pun intended) to find survival days to bring back to exhausted members...creating a mini survival-based solo adventure for that one member. More excitement, more fun, some uniqueness injected in the usual encounter of monsters vs full party members.
#19 bruul Aug 19, 2010 12:13:40	It's no big deal if Shardminds and Warforged have no need for survival days (but Sun Sickness has had cool conversion on this board to make it compatible with them), it's usually only one party member. This can even help out, as that member can forge ahead (no pun intended) to find survival days to bring back to exhausted members...creating a mini survival-based solo adventure for that one member. More excitement, more fun, some uniqueness injected in the usual encounter of monsters vs full party members. I have a warforged PC in the game I'm about to start.  While it is a bit annoying that he won't have to worry about dying from thirst or hunger, I figured that the roleplaying diffculty more than makes up for this benefit.  My biggest problem isn't his survival due to the harsh conditions it's his survival when a Templar sees him.  An obviously magical intelligent construct walking down the street.  Were playing it as he is the only one of his kind, wood and stone, a prototype from the cleansing wars.  My thought is they would want to captue him for sure for study.  SK's always want to check out and be in control of new magic.  I'm having his origins be primal but that doesn't mean a SK wont want to study him to learn how to make more "super soldiers".   How do any of you plan to deal with the social issues a WF would encounter?
#20 awaken_D_M_golem Aug 19, 2010 14:07:22	only one of it's kind = no Knowledge checks work. Nobody knows what it is. Everyone leaves it alone for the big dawgs to deal with. -2 to social skills and skill challenges, could work; except for Intimidate.
#21 jrwoodchuck Aug 19, 2010 20:51:31	What about the enduring elements ritual?  Does it make sense that this would prevent sun sickness for the cost of 20GP's a day?
#22 603 Aug 19, 2010 21:16:46	It's no big deal if Shardminds and Warforged have no need for survival days (but Sun Sickness has had cool conversion on this board to make it compatible with them), it's usually only one party member. This can even help out, as that member can forge ahead (no pun intended) to find survival days to bring back to exhausted members...creating a mini survival-based solo adventure for that one member. More excitement, more fun, some uniqueness injected in the usual encounter of monsters vs full party members. As a more conservative DM, I'd be inclined to just disallow Shardminds and Warforged. Especially Shardminds, since there's no Living Gate baggage in Athas and hopefully never will be, and thus no need for Shardminds.
#23 big_goon Aug 19, 2010 21:30:09	Another idea: From the sunwarped article, we see that the sun is more than just waves of "heat". Rays of the Sun can mutate and warp your flesh, bone, muscle and mind. Think of the sun as extremely "hot" in terms of both temperature AND radiation. While a tiefling might be able to resist the "heat" of the sun (which makes them excellent nomads - a good +2 racial bonus background or obvious racial feat), they are not resistant to the terrible radiation the sun gives off (maybe that's the reason why they can wear metal helmets, heavy clothes, etc that protect them from the radiation but not the heat). They still get sympthoms of stroke, cancer and other "fantastic" and wild chaotic effects from any exposure from the sun. This obviously also effects the "arcane" and "psionics" that keeps warforged and shardminds alive, this leads to the warping effects other posters recommended.
#24 Duke5150 Aug 19, 2010 22:38:47	What about the enduring elements ritual?  Does it make sense that this would prevent sun sickness for the cost of 20GP's a day? I don't remember the ritual, but if it acts as a survival day for the purpose of preventing sun sickness, then it could be a desperate, last resort option. Since it's more expensive than a survival day, I'd probably allow it. Although again, I don't remember exactly what that ritual does and I don't wanna grab my book. It's hot as hell here in cali and my phb is like four feet away.. In this heat, it might as well be a mile. Which is funny, since I'v been reading DS all day and unable to fully enjoy it, since I'm living in a damn blast furnace. Last thing I want to think about is how hot it is!  Time to watch waterworld, or ice age or crawl into my freezer.
#25 jrwoodchuck Aug 20, 2010 5:08:38	What about the enduring elements ritual?  Does it make sense that this would prevent sun sickness for the cost of 20GP's a day? I don't remember the ritual, but if it acts as a survival day for the purpose of preventing sun sickness, then it could be a desperate, last resort option. Since it's more expensive than a survival day, I'd probably allow it. Although again, I don't remember exactly what that ritual does and I don't wanna grab my book. It's hot as hell here in cali and my phb is like four feet away.. In this heat, it might as well be a mile. Which is funny, since I'v been reading DS all day and unable to fully enjoy it, since I'm living in a damn blast furnace. Last thing I want to think about is how hot it is!  Time to watch waterworld, or ice age or crawl into my freezer. The Endure Elements ritual lets you designate up to five ritual participants, including yourself, who ignore penalties associated with extremes of nonmagical weather. An affected creature suffers no ill effects from ambient temperatures between –50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit, and the creature’s equipment is likewise protected from the ravages of these temperatures and of precipitation. It costs 20GP's worth of spell components for 24 hours of protection.
#26 Valien Aug 20, 2010 5:17:32	I don't remember the ritual, but if it acts as a survival day for the purpose of preventing sun sickness, then it could be a desperate, last resort option. Since it's more expensive than a survival day, I'd probably allow it. Although again, I don't remember exactly what that ritual does and I don't wanna grab my book. It's hot as hell here in cali and my phb is like four feet away.. In this heat, it might as well be a mile. Which is funny, since I'v been reading DS all day and unable to fully enjoy it, since I'm living in a damn blast furnace. Last thing I want to think about is how hot it is!  Time to watch waterworld, or ice age or crawl into my freezer. The Endure Elements ritual lets you designate up to five ritual participants, including yourself, who ignore penalties associated with extremes of nonmagical weather. An affected creature suffers no ill effects from ambient temperatures between –50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit, and the creature’s equipment is likewise protected from the ravages of these temperatures and of precipitation. It costs 20GP's worth of spell components for 24 hours of protection. Considering the sun's intense radiation and heat, and the fact that it has been ''defiled'' (Pristine tower and all, if you go with that canon), a DM shouldn't have a problem disallowing this ritual. Just say this isn't your ordinary, summer-in-florida heat - and it's more like a oh-my-god-this-feels-like-the-blast-of-wind-created-by-an-atomic-bomb kind of heat.
#27 FlashbackJon Aug 20, 2010 9:08:49	What about the enduring elements ritual?  Does it make sense that this would prevent sun sickness for the cost of 20GP's a day? There's an entire page in the DSCS on the sorts of rituals that are harder, less useful, or unavailable on Athas.  They call very few out by name, but this one is a prime candidate for being harder, less useful, or unavailable. They suggest that the rediscovery of "Traveler's Feast" could be the focus of an entire campaign, and I would suggest something similar for that one.  The presence of that ritual would drastically alter the entire world.
#28 gwydion9 Aug 20, 2010 11:47:06	What about the enduring elements ritual?  Does it make sense that this would prevent sun sickness for the cost of 20GP's a day? The campaign guide notes that certain rituals that make survival too easy in athas should be disallowed by the DM.  Rituals that create food and water are missing by default. This certainly seems like a candidate for "does not exist in athas" status.
#29 sariyel Aug 20, 2010 17:07:57	That ritual actually isn't too bad (the Enduring Elements one).  Couple of reasons: * The temperature can reach 150F, so protection up to 140F isn't actually comprehensive * The cost of it is only 5gp cheaper than buying 'survival days' for all five of those people * It uses spell components.  Spell components are illegal in almost every city; the only reliable source, outside being a Veiled Alliance member, is elven traders, who will happily cheat you or overcharge you. So, balance-wise, it's not too bad.
#30 doppelganger Aug 20, 2010 20:58:48	* The temperature can reach 150F, so protection up to 140F isn't actually comprehensive   I though the temperature could reach into the 130s. 150? How do humans live in that?