Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 skole_morgenrood Aug 30, 2010 12:00:51	In previous editions of D&D (2nd edition possibly 3.x) psionic characters has access to a specific type of mind to mind combat. There existed different telepathic attack and defense modes. Most of these powers now exist in their own right as powers now but originally they were: Attack modes: Ego Whip Id Insinuation Psionic Blast Psychic Crush Mind Thrust Defense Modes: Though Shield Mind Blank Tower of Iron Will Mental Barrier Intellect Fortress Each round the combatants chose one defense mode which gave them bonuses vs specific attacks but penalties against others.  I'm toying with the idea of bringing these back for my Dark Sun home game but am unsure about the implementation. Proposed implementation. Combatants choose one defense mode as a free action at the start of their turn. Each defense mode gives a +2 (+3  or +4) bonus to one particular defense  (Fort, Ref, Will) but gives a -2 penalty to another but these bonuses/penalties only apply against each of the 5 attack modes. Psionic combat only works against other psionic creatures/characters. Non-psionic beings are to "closed" to be attacked. Each attack is used as a minor action, allowing the psychic battle to continue at the same time as the physical one. Basically each attack can target a different defense and be used like a ranged basic attack (augmentable?) Attacks would target different defenses. Ego Whip (Reflex) Id Insinuation (Will) Mind Thrust (Will) Psychic Crush (Fort) Psionic Blast (Fort) Defense Modes bonuses: Though Shield (+Ref, - Fort) Mind Blank (+Fort, -Will) Mental Barrier (+Fort, -Ref) Tower of Iron Will (+Will, -Fort) Intellect Fortress (+ Will, - Ref) This means that some attacks are better against different types of psionic charaters than others. Psychic Crush is probably not as good against a Battlemind as Ego Whip, but Ego Whip isn't as good against Psions. I know it's an extra level of complication that doesn't really need to exist, but I think the idea can be flavourful and help psionic characters (even monks) feel more "psychic". Obviously, the idea can be developed further giving each attack mode different effects etc. but I'm not that far advanced yet. other possibilities include making some attack modes(and possibly defense modes) encounter or even dailies.  Thoughts?
#2 FlashbackJon Aug 30, 2010 12:39:31	Are you talking about a separate "psionic battle" mechanic?  Or a sort of alternative "Augment" system for normal psionic powers when used on psionic enemies?
#3 skole_morgenrood Aug 30, 2010 12:41:34	A seperate, parallel mechanic.
#4 big_goon Aug 30, 2010 16:39:53	I was toying with the idea of having two battlemaps going at once -  a real world map and a psionic mind battle map using monsters to represent the creatures. You still only have one Standard Move and Minor, but they can be used on either battle map. Conditions that effect creatures in one effect creatures in another. I didn't really develop a system... but using the psionic attacks (associated with Ability Scores) and defenses (associated with defenses) on the "psionic parallel" battlemap might be a mechanic. Makes the fight overly complex, but could be fun once in a while.
#5 Larni Aug 30, 2010 16:51:05	What you might do is generate a paper scissor stone mechanic and reward the winner with a dazed effect. Make it a standard action. Give the PC with the Att mode a bit of control (cost of a feat?). My memories of att/def modes were a parallel combat mechanic that was not really that much fun (bit like decking in Shadowrun).  Alternately you could go the mindscape/construct way and have a construct that could battle another creature with psionics. Problem here is that you have two sets of combat stats for PCs and villains. Under the new rules it seems more effort than it is worth; unless all your PCs want to be mindscaping enemies like illithids etc, then it would be very appropriate because it would be integral to the campaign.
#6 cudmaster Aug 31, 2010 1:52:01	Honestly the best way to bring the flavor is just to describe mental attacks as "constructs" in the psychic terrain...  but keep all of the effects the same... Instead of just saying "the psion ego whips you for x damage" tell the player that as the enemy psion fixes his eyes on them they are suddenly standing on a grey field (or whatever) they see a giant scorpion (or whatever) skittering towards them... etc. If you want to play it up a bit, allow them to come up with their own defense construct and if it is a particularly good one, like say if they realized it was a psychic battle and turned themselves into a cloud of vapor or something, give them a +1 to their will defense (or reduce the damage or whatever), if they still get hit say that the scorpion morphed into something that would easily overwhelm their defenses at the last moment... like say a beast head giant that simply inhaled them, and crushed them in it's lungs. If they respond with a psychic attack on their turn, or the enemy continues to do so, just continue to describe things in the context of the psychic terrain. If they are being attacked physically as well, they will likely snap out of it (unless they were dazed/stunned/etc by the psionic attacks) and be able to respond normally, if they are stunned (or whatever) you can explain those effects by them being stuck battling psionic constructs.  The comment above about deckers in shadowrun is very apropos imho, don't let your love of this particular modality for psionic battle destroy the rest of your game. If you give bonuses for good description for psionic attacks and defenses, make sure you allow the same for physical situations as well. I'd advise against it though for "balance" reasons (or scale up enemies to account for the bonuses you WILL be giving the players)... and suggest you just give extra xp as a "Role Playing" reward, if anything.  I usually just EXPECT RP, since that is the POINT of the game, but if your players are new, or are power gamer/munchkin types I can understand the idea of offering rewards to "train them".
#7 awaken_D_M_golem Aug 31, 2010 15:50:55	Yep 1e 2e and 3.0e had them. 3.5e had things named something similar, with effects kinda like both 2e and 3.0e, but powered up to be near Arcane spell levels, in terms of power. Many of the "names" of the powers / abilities, have made it into 4e, but they work very differently. There's an approximate structure to what they do, relative to the other classes. But yeah, it doesn't look like or feel like, the previous versions of this.  YMMV is assumed. ** That said: 6 different attack stats (each ability) 4 different defense abilities ; Ego Whip could target Charisma 3 different stacks of: Psi on Psi ; Psi on Non-Psi ; and rarely Non-psi on Psi , or Non-psi on Non-psi. Mix and match.
#8 ian.thomson Aug 31, 2010 18:32:36	Just to keep things simple, maybe have it so the players can trade in 4 wild talents for 1 psionic at-will? Then do the defense modes as wild talents as well?  Perhaps "while taking this stance, attacks against (good defense) must roll twice and take the lower result, but attacks against (bad defense) roll twice and take the higher result"...?
#9 awaken_D_M_golem Sep 02, 2010 17:19:15	hmm ... y'know ... I'm thinking a Multiclass Feat gives a good idea, about how powerful adding a single At-will is. One feat = Use 1 at-will as an Encounter power. And then side-bar, you get to pick powers from the other class, with quirks, assuming balance. You could make an At-will As Encounter a little stronger, if it doesn't have access to the extra class, feats, items, Ppaths etc ... So lets say for the cost of One feat you get: straight hacks of any psi At-will power in PHB3, and 1 powerpoint with it; the power useable only 1/encounter. And for flavor you just pick the ones with names the same as previous editions. If you pick more than 1 power, you get the extra 1 powerpoint, and can use them like the Psi powerpoint classes do. Sure it's a houserule, but it's within lines of current 4e design.