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Templar level

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Ozmodious
Oct 26, 2011 13:21:41 My group is based in the citystate of Tyr. There is a minor villian whom is a Templar that in the last game attempted to have the PC's killed by sending another group after them. The PC's want revenge and have told me that when they get back to the city they are going to kill him. I have thought long and hard about this and can't decied what level the Templar should be. The 6 players are all tenth level or very close.
Should I put the encounter geared toward their level with the Templar or maybe put the guards at their level and the Templar a solo mob to represent his being more powerful than them? I had thought about making him like level 14 and the guards all level 8 and make the encounter extremele tough for them but I am thinking that would be a slaughter. Any suggestions would be appriciated.
#2
DontEatRawHagis
Oct 26, 2011 14:18:25 Templars usually have minions with them, mainly Half Giant thugs. In the DSCC the Tyr templar is 10th level and the Half Giants are 8th level. Depends on what you want. I have templars set up as Paragon-ish encounters, while rookie templars and human guardsmen are heroic tier. How powerful do you want him? Does he send other templars to do his dirty work? Does he make other templars quake in fear?

Is he powerful himself or just sly enough to cheat his way up the ziggurat lickety split?

Suggestion:
Make the Templar around mid-level. Have the players search for information on him maybe by killing low level templars or something. Add in Half Giant enforcers. Maybe have them befriend a rival templar.
#3
Bly2729
Oct 26, 2011 18:37:59 There were also heroic-tier Templars in Lost Cistern and Marauders of the Dune Sea. I think you can go two ways with this. Your first inclination is to make him a really tough threat and that might work. Personally, I think a templar functions better as a leader of others rather than a solo. But depending on your story, if he's the kind of templar who's spent his career sitting on his ass crunching numbers and letting his grunts break kneecaps, don't be afraid to make him less of a physical threat. It could be tremendously satisfying for your PCs to punch through some thugs and kick over the desk of a whimpering bureaucrat. Don't feel pressured to shoehorn your PCs into a combat finale.
#4
Ozmodious
Oct 27, 2011 21:15:51 ok so maybe the best approach is to make the templar standard but make the guards tough. This might be the way to go Thanks
#5
hairyscotsman2
Oct 28, 2011 20:52:35 It's only Nibenay that's famous for having a lot of half-giant troops. I'd probably have some other race of enforcers for most of the grunts (8th level soldiers) with a single half-giant (10th or 11th level brute).
Probably at least one skirmisher side kick too.
Is the templar a warlock templar or some other suitable class? Building them with an elite template should be ok or add a few applicable class powers.
You'd want the show down to be tough and memorable, so a few levels higher. 13th level encounter? I'd probably build the templar as a 12th or 13th level elite.
Minions can be used to good effect, especially in the right battlefield. Ranged minions with cover perhaps (Minion artillery)
Give the templar an item they can use that the party wants. Nothing like prying it from their cold dead hands....

As to power level. You should have a good idea by 10th of what the party can handle. Using creatrures that have powers that work well with others can be used to great effect. Even MM1 creatures can shine when used alongside the right allies. But it can be a worry, making a hard encounter. Even creatures of the right level can be overpowering to certain parties (some undead are very hard for many Dark Sun party set-ups for example). I had to do a last minute re-pick recently when I realised the creastures I selected on flavor would combine their abilities in a very devestating way.
The trick is to balancing challenging your players against frustrating them too much.
#6
DontEatRawHagis
Oct 29, 2011 0:08:30
It's only Nibenay that's famous for having a lot of half-giant troops. I'd probably have some other race of enforcers for most of the grunts (8th level soldiers) with a single half-giant (10th or 11th level brute).
Probably at least one skirmisher side kick too.

I was going off of the Verdant Passage book, Templars of Tyr send three Half Giants to collect Rikkus at one point. I wouldn't put it passed Balic as well for having Half-giant enforces, seeing as how Balic is in the middle Giant country.
#7
Bly2729
Oct 29, 2011 8:03:50 You know what else would be awesome, if you establish Templars as badass now, maybe in a while when the PCs start gunning for Sorcerer Kings, then use 'em as minions later. It makes them feel like they've made some progress in the world.
#8
Scyner
Oct 29, 2011 13:40:27 Also, going a little off topic here, but if you want to make it more into a mini-campaign/scenario, Templars plot against each other all the time and have lots of enemies within their ranks.
You could have the Templar be a bit too high level for the players and/or surrounded by too many guards and allies. Your characters would recognize being overpowered and seek to partner with that Templar's arch-enemy. This could be a good way to get players entangled in Templar politics (not unlike Mafia stores, so you can get inspiration from many movies).
This arch-enemy could provide players with intel, gear, grunts and/or side quests to do his dirty deeds: assassinating his allies or bribing them into betraying him, steal some of his treasure / set grain reserves on fire to weaken him financially. All these could lead to: increase of player's level until they are ready, decrease of the Templar's entourage (powerful allies desert him, less finances to pay for many powerful guards, less equipment), piss him off enough to bring him out in the open / make a political mistake...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ozmodious Oct 26, 2011 13:21:41	My group is based in the citystate of Tyr. There is a minor villian whom is a Templar that in the last game attempted to have the PC's killed by sending another group after them. The PC's want revenge and have told me that when they get back to the city they are going to kill him. I have thought long and hard about this and can't decied what level the Templar should be. The 6 players are all tenth level or very close. Should I put the encounter geared toward their level with the Templar or maybe put the guards at their level and the Templar a solo mob to represent his being more powerful than them? I had thought about making him like level 14 and the guards all level 8 and make the encounter extremele tough for them but I am thinking that would be a slaughter. Any suggestions would be appriciated.
#2 DontEatRawHagis Oct 26, 2011 14:18:25	Templars usually have minions with them, mainly Half Giant thugs. In the DSCC the Tyr templar is 10th level and the Half Giants are 8th level. Depends on what you want. I have templars set up as Paragon-ish encounters, while rookie templars and human guardsmen are heroic tier. How powerful do you want him? Does he send other templars to do his dirty work? Does he make other templars quake in fear? Is he powerful himself or just sly enough to cheat his way up the ziggurat lickety split? Suggestion: Make the Templar around mid-level. Have the players search for information on him maybe by killing low level templars or something. Add in Half Giant enforcers. Maybe have them befriend a rival templar.
#3 Bly2729 Oct 26, 2011 18:37:59	There were also heroic-tier Templars in Lost Cistern and Marauders of the Dune Sea. I think you can go two ways with this. Your first inclination is to make him a really tough threat and that might work. Personally, I think a templar functions better as a leader of others rather than a solo. But depending on your story, if he's the kind of templar who's spent his career sitting on his ass crunching numbers and letting his grunts break kneecaps, don't be afraid to make him less of a physical threat. It could be tremendously satisfying for your PCs to punch through some thugs and kick over the desk of a whimpering bureaucrat. Don't feel pressured to shoehorn your PCs into a combat finale.
#4 Ozmodious Oct 27, 2011 21:15:51	ok so maybe the best approach is to make the templar standard but make the guards tough. This might be the way to go Thanks
#5 hairyscotsman2 Oct 28, 2011 20:52:35	It's only Nibenay that's famous for having a lot of half-giant troops. I'd probably have some other race of enforcers for most of the grunts (8th level soldiers) with a single half-giant (10th or 11th level brute). Probably at least one skirmisher side kick too. Is the templar a warlock templar or some other suitable class? Building them with an elite template should be ok or add a few applicable class powers. You'd want the show down to be tough and memorable, so a few levels higher. 13th level encounter? I'd probably build the templar as a 12th or 13th level elite. Minions can be used to good effect, especially in the right battlefield. Ranged minions with cover perhaps (Minion artillery) Give the templar an item they can use that the party wants. Nothing like prying it from their cold dead hands.... As to power level. You should have a good idea by 10th of what the party can handle. Using creatrures that have powers that work well with others can be used to great effect. Even MM1 creatures can shine when used alongside the right allies. But it can be a worry, making a hard encounter. Even creatures of the right level can be overpowering to certain parties (some undead are very hard for many Dark Sun party set-ups for example). I had to do a last minute re-pick recently when I realised the creastures I selected on flavor would combine their abilities in a very devestating way. The trick is to balancing challenging your players against frustrating them too much.
#6 DontEatRawHagis Oct 29, 2011 0:08:30	It's only Nibenay that's famous for having a lot of half-giant troops. I'd probably have some other race of enforcers for most of the grunts (8th level soldiers) with a single half-giant (10th or 11th level brute). Probably at least one skirmisher side kick too. I was going off of the Verdant Passage book, Templars of Tyr send three Half Giants to collect Rikkus at one point. I wouldn't put it passed Balic as well for having Half-giant enforces, seeing as how Balic is in the middle Giant country.
#7 Bly2729 Oct 29, 2011 8:03:50	You know what else would be awesome, if you establish Templars as badass now, maybe in a while when the PCs start gunning for Sorcerer Kings, then use 'em as minions later. It makes them feel like they've made some progress in the world.
#8 Scyner Oct 29, 2011 13:40:27	Also, going a little off topic here, but if you want to make it more into a mini-campaign/scenario, Templars plot against each other all the time and have lots of enemies within their ranks. You could have the Templar be a bit too high level for the players and/or surrounded by too many guards and allies. Your characters would recognize being overpowered and seek to partner with that Templar's arch-enemy. This could be a good way to get players entangled in Templar politics (not unlike Mafia stores, so you can get inspiration from many movies). This arch-enemy could provide players with intel, gear, grunts and/or side quests to do his dirty deeds: assassinating his allies or bribing them into betraying him, steal some of his treasure / set grain reserves on fire to weaken him financially. All these could lead to: increase of player's level until they are ready, decrease of the Templar's entourage (powerful allies desert him, less finances to pay for many powerful guards, less equipment), piss him off enough to bring him out in the open / make a political mistake...