On templars, you are correct, in 4e Templars cast arcane magic. The 2e explanations of Living Vortexs for the SK's to channel divine never sat well with me, it just felt like a bandaid.
In 4e there's a class called the Warlock, which is a caster that gets it's arcane magic from somehwere else, whether it's an arch-fey, an old one, an elemental prince, etc, so that fits right in line with the Sorcerer-King/Tempar relationship.
So while it's different, I have gotten behind most of the changes, still not a fan of the defiling system in 4e though, it fundamentally changes the feel of world by saying only your friends are affected by defiling.
Also like Raddu, I wish the 4e defiling mechanic had come out differently. I think came out the way it did for game balances reasons but I think they could have included some variant rules that kept more of the general defiling feel. Obviously, individual GMs can correct this in their own games.
Things like...
* Defiling
* Incorporation of "popular" races that don't fit into the world (tieflings, dragonborn)
* Gutting of thri-kreen concept in service to "balance"
* Widespread literacy of PCs
can all be addressed with house rules.
you like you're PC options simplified to the point of being more restrictive
defiling was never really important to your version of Dark Sun
you don't know about, or don't care about, many features of the earlier concepts (ie. drays and half-giants aren't important enough to be original races, we'll just force you to use different ones in their place - goliaths and dragonborn; despite Dark Sun being cut off from the planes before, we're forced into having tieflings...and eladrin for that matter; and probably biggest of all, is that, with the lack of uniqueness that was chalk-full in 2 & 3e (props to athas.org), Dark Sun is now just DnD in the desert - ie. play Forgotten Realms in Calimshan and have a very similar feel - which is an f'n travesty....just to name a few)
I could keep going...but alas the real point is I hate 4e....others seem to enjoy it, though, so...WHAT EVER!!!!! GARRRRRRR!!!!
But I keep all the flavor of 2e in my 4e game. I make it my game, how I envision the world.
So maybe there are aspects of 4e that arent' great(planar connections,defiling), hell, there are aspects of 2e that aren't great and that I dont use (Last Sea, Elemental Vortexes). Speaking of defiling, even though I dont like the player defiling in 4e, it has NEVER come up because I've never had a player defiler while running 4e and as for NPC's, I make them defile like in the old days, hurting friend and foe alike.
ANd of course there are things that I personally think are awesome in 4e that I have wholeheartedly embraced, Eladrin and the Lands Between the Winds are an awesome idea in my opinion and I think it adds to the Dark Sun feel.
...hell, there are aspects of 2e that aren't great and that I dont use (Last Sea, Elemental Vortexes).
Though I haven't removed them per se, I certainly haven't used these either. So I can agree with you there
Squidfur, I cant disagree strongly enough. Maybe if you've never played Dark Sun and you start in 4e (and never look at prior supplements) then it would be D&D in the desert.
But I keep all the flavor of 2e in my 4e game. I make it my game, how I envision the world.
Two things on this:
1) I like the flavor in the older editions as well. All fine and dandy. So, for me to be interested in switching mechanics doesnt' necessarily take a lot of doing, as long as the system stays strong. In my opinion 4e fails greatly in this, so I've chosen to stick with 3.5 mechanics. My choice and I'm sticking to it.
2) More importanly, however, IMO 4e has NOT stayed true to the older material, fluff-wise. Some locations have been moved, or completely removed. Races that were an important part of the setting have been changed, and races that were not a part of it have been added (IMO in a very forced manner). Classes that were not included are now part of the setting (again, in my opinion very forced). Creatures that you would never find are now included (more to do with making you pay for those extra books, then because the creatures make sense for the setting). Some story elements have been changed or removed......the list goes on and on.
So even fluff-wise, IMO 4e fails to deliver.
That being said, I have absolutely no need for 4e Dark Sun. Dark Sun does still remain as my favorite setting of all time, however, and I will continue to enjoy it - just not with the 4e rules.
I want to add something....I will recommend to everyone that loves the setting to at least give the 4e stuff a read, if only to be able to choose what they want to add. It didn't have anything for me (I just feel too much was changed from the setting I love), but that doesn't mean someone else wont.
i want to thank everyone for their input, with that said i have to agree with most of what everyone says except i want to expand my questions a bit what do you use in your dark sun campaigns in regards to each eddition (i am sure it will change with d and d next ) but for example warlocks are a no go in my campaign as are those races like tieflings not gonna happen.i use some of the 4th eddition rules but i have a real love hate with it screw balance in my games all characters got there chance to shine. i stick with templars using clerical spells not arcane . i have read the 4th eddition campaign nice right up thats about it .. lol ..so basically what rules or fluff does everyone use in there campaigns ? and as far as defiling i use a home brew system it does have a penalty effect let me know if you would like to see it .. oh one more thing hate the balanced tri-kreen big ole mess. and thanks for the advise on which new dark sun novel to try .
I try to hew close to 2E purity. However, I think warlocks were one of the good additions. It codified the derivation of power from the sorcerer-kings into a cool rules system and, by making them arcane, emphasized that the S-Ks and their servants are The Biggest Defilers Ever.
For thri-kreen, I made a bunch of house rules:
* I created a new feat called Thri-Kreen Warrior (gives gythka and chatkcha pro and +2 to damage). I think a handful of other people also created this feat for their game and it was finally put into the official rules with today's Thri-Kreen article in Dragon (I think it's called Thri-Kreen Weapon Master?)
* Unarmored thri-kreen have a natural +2 to AC (which drops to +1 if they wear armor)
* All thri-kreen equipment must be specialized.
* All thri-kreen PCs are female
I'm still not satisfied with their power level, as much, but I am trying to angle away from the stupid "people with bug heads" aesthetic they seem to be pushing now. Poor thri-kreens all lost their abdomens
.what do you use in your dark sun campaigns in regards to each eddition.
For the most part, I use all of the material. I find really very few conflicts between 4E and earlier editions (I find far more between the various older AD&D books). I skin things closer to the AD&D setting in terms of never using the term goliath, portraying templars as channeling the magic of their SKs (whether divine or arcane really isn't a concern, in my opinion), and having elemental priests be a big part of the setting (again, what class they are doesn't really matter... what matters is that this sun priest is revering the sun and using sun-themed powers).
As an example, I really like the Dragon article on the Earth Warpriest. Swap the word "divine" for primal and you have an excellent Priest of the Earth in AD&D terms but with the cinematic quality of 4E. Other aspects, such as defiling, may be harder to swallow for some... but defiling never worked for me in any rules form. For me every attempt has failed to capture the beauty of what we read in some of the novels. In the end, defiling needs to be a role-playing angle and story-telling angle for it to work well.
There is a lot of material in older AD&D supplements. The tribes in Elves of Athas, the city details in Veiled Alliance, etc. But these are all story/setting and you don't need to be playing a particular edition to use them. Even the history of Rajaat and the various ages is compatible. Choose what you like the best and leave any conflicts as rumors - after all, these events are shrouded in mystery. For example, the Athasian genasi article in Dungeon is a good example of what I use as "wrong rumor" in my campaign. Even within AD&D, there was a very wide disparity between designers as to what had happened with priests/temples/elementals/gates/SKs/gods, so it is always up to you.
As with most Dark Sun fans, I was pretty worried about whether the 4E conversion would be good. I have found it to be truly superb. I think they really pulled the best and most useful information together. While I can pick nits, they are tiny and I can't say other designers would have done it better. Choices like themes seem to have been just really great. While of course it matters what edition you prefer, I find 4E is especially suited to Dark Sun because cinematic set piece encounters and huge big super-power style class features and attacks really make sense. Every power is basically a gladiatorial/cinematic move. For me, that is a really perfect fit. (Again, the first thing that matters the most is whether you like any particular edition - every player and DM will have a different feeling about that. But, I think 4E is an especially good system for Dark Sun).