Id be interested myself to seeing a Templar Druid. I can see them being recruited to aid in Water Production in the cities and protect foodstuff production. Although I cant exactly see them as adventurers.
I prefer this version of the Templar to the older , quasi clerical version. It just makes sense to me that there are varieties of Templars.
As a general rule, no druid would work for a SK. (To read about a druid who did work for an SK, check out Lynn Abbey's character of Pavek in her novels.)
I found pretty lame the setting,s vision for the Oba: it says she flattered the druids of the Crescent Forest, trying to win them over to her. It was a badly imagined piece of setting info. On the contrary I imagine she has had her own druids for a millenia, and that it is a Gulgan tradition for people to serve the Oba despite her defiling powers.
are the sorcerer kings' defiling fairly common knowledge? i mean, yeah, everyone knows they're tyrants and powerful god-like beings...but defilers? don't the sorcerer kings use everyone's fear of defilers as a tool to root out other magic users? it would seem counter-productive to also set oneself up as THE defiler of all defilers, no?
I'd have to agree. The general population isn't really aware of the Sorcerer-Kings being defilers (then again, the general population can't readily distinguish defilers from preservers... many of the lower class can't even distinguish psionics or primal power from arcane magic). The Sorcerer-Kings have their own ways of doing things (the Oba comes to mind... calling her a defiler in Gulg might be a death sentence).
However, the Veiled Alliance claims the SK's are defilers. Each and every one of them. But... the Veiled Alliance are outlaws and brigands, most of which are arcane users themselves (which would be like the pot calling the kettle black, as far as the general population goes).
The 2E materials claimed that the SK's employed defilers (well, if they want arcane spellcasters in their service, it doesn't make much sense for a preserver to side with a SK, since most preservers are VA members and hate the SK's). However, the defilers would, by necessity, have to refrain from defiling in or around the city-states.
The 4E templar concept allows for some intriguing ideas, to be sure. In the end, a templar would need to be careful, just like any other arcane spellcaster would need to be, however in his/her home city-state, the templar could afford casting spells publicly.
The 2E materials claimed that the SK's employed defilers (well, if they want arcane spellcasters in their service, it doesn't make much sense for a preserver to side with a SK, since most preservers are VA members and hate the SK's). However, the defilers would, by necessity, have to refrain from defiling in or around the city-states.
I have no issue with the claim of SKs or the templarate employing defilers: they owe allegiance to no spirits that might encourage them to disobey orders, they are despised by all - even fellow templars - and thus have few places they can safely live in or acquire a rank or position of power or even a title of nobility, and thus are more loyal to the SK for it.
Besides, there has always been the cool image of the templar that casts down someone with a fork of lightning from his palanquin (approriatly kept above ground by slaves), so why not an image of the pale defiler walking the streets, slave with gaudy parasol in tow, and another slave come scurrying to remove the ash from around the defiler whenever the latter deals some fool his pound of royal justice.
The "benevolent" queen LaLali-Puy seems like the only one who might have a serious problem with her templars running around using defiling magic (it goes against he hunt/pro-nature thing she has going on). It would depend on the SK and the situation really. Nibenay definitely uses them as they are said to have prisoner druids on hand to warn them when the life force of trees of life grows to low.
Most of the others most certainly seem like they wouldn't mind at least until the templar reaches higher levels in which case, the SK would be inclined to kill said templar/defiler (as a threat that they pose to secrets/power/etc.).
Some of the SK's who set themselves up as deities might not like open shows of arcane power due to the public reaction affecting their godly image. The whole "how could my god justify THAT" thing. Defiling being one of the worst sins in the eyes of the common people.
It's been a long time since I've really read up on DS stuff so I could be wrong.
Some of the SK's who set themselves up as deities might not like open shows of arcane power due to the public reaction affecting their godly image. The whole "how could my god justify THAT" thing.
The... third (?) Prism Pentad book has Nibenay's agents pretty ticked off about defiling magic used in the middle of his city. One gets the impression he's set up a pretty strong "us versus them" reaction, where "us" is the people of Nibenay and his agents and "them" is anyone else using magic, *especially* visible defiler magic. I'd imagine this would be a pretty common view; even if people don't like or are terrified of their rulers, they respect the relative safety and order they represent.
That's one of the core paradoxes of Dark Sun; the Sorcerer-Kings are responsible for the world's devastation, but they are, in general, the only real hope for the masses' survival.
The... third (?) Prism Pentad book has Nibenay's agents pretty ticked off about defiling magic used in the middle of his city. One gets the impression he's set up a pretty strong "us versus them" reaction, where "us" is the people of Nibenay and his agents and "them" is anyone else using magic, *especially* visible defiler magic. I'd imagine this would be a pretty common view; even if people don't like or are terrified of their rulers, they respect the relative safety and order they represent.
...that would be the reaction of a Veiled Alliance young man sent to meet the legendary Sadira of Tyr, in a forested park inside Nibenay, only to find out she's willing to (and does) defile to reach her goals when they are ambushed by Dhojakt, the defiler half-man half-cylops son of the Shadow King. The young man tries to kill her in his rage, and is instead killed by templar magic in a firefight that involves templars and Veiled Alliance members in the park.
Incidentaly, only this young man (dead), Dhojakt (dead), Sadira's mentor Ktandeo (dead), her elven father (dead), and Nok (dead) have known she was a defiler, so when she became a sun wizard she turned outward all that self-hatred for her defiler ways, which she had been justifying with hollow reasonings, suddenly staunchly opposing the ways of the defilers...while never again mentioning her dirty secret. The "heroes of Tyr" have also kept their mouths shut.
In case I misinterpreted your post, Dhojakt too was ticked off that Sadira defiled the park, as not even servants of the Shadow King are allowed to defile within reach.
I largely had Dhojakt's reaction in mind; his anger at the park being defiled.
That said, isn't there fallout later on where individuals (not personally related to Sadira) are pretty horrified as well? Perhaps not in the book itself, but in the Veiled Alliance or Ivory Triangle supplements?
This all makes sense in the context of things, if you think about it. Preserving is just a more careful form of defiling, is it not? There's nothing that says a SK can't transform himself into a dragon using the slow processes of a preserver.
It was pretty obvious in the Urik novels that Hamanu was preserver-like in his attitude, if not magic use. Even when he described his own slow transformation to that of a dragon, he said it was done by maintaining Urik. It was also pretty clear that Hamanu kept his methods secret, allowing others to create their own popular view, as it kept attention away from the reality.
This all makes sense in the context of things, if you think about it. Preserving is just a more careful form of defiling, is it not? There's nothing that says a SK can't transform himself into a dragon using the slow processes of a preserver.
Huh. You could actually have an SK on the path to dragonhood who isn't completely mercenary in his view toward his subjects, and far sighted enough to realize that if you're going to live a really, really long time, it might be nice to not make your world even worse than it already is.
doesn't have to be a good guy, as such, just closer to unaligned than to truly evil, as it were.
what could be really interesting would be if that ruler started finding people born with arcane aptitude, and teaching them perserver magic, even starting an arcane college. it would be awefully easy for another SK to use that to galvanize a population into war.
and then the first Sk would be the position knowing the effect that such a war will have, but not having much of a choice.
the PC's could be employed to weaken the second SK's city, etc, etc.
It was pretty obvious in the Urik novels that Hamanu was preserver-like in his attitude, if not magic use. Even when he described his own slow transformation to that of a dragon, he said it was done by maintaining Urik. It was also pretty clear that Hamanu kept his methods secret, allowing others to create their own popular view, as it kept attention away from the reality.
This all makes sense in the context of things, if you think about it. Preserving is just a more careful form of defiling, is it not? There's nothing that says a SK can't transform himself into a dragon using the slow processes of a preserver.
Huh. You could actually have an SK on the path to dragonhood who isn't completely mercenary in his view toward his subjects, and far sighted enough to realize that if you're going to live a really, really long time, it might be nice to not make your world even worse than it already is.
doesn't have to be a good guy, as such, just closer to unaligned than to truly evil, as it were.
what could be really interesting would be if that ruler started finding people born with arcane aptitude, and teaching them perserver magic, even starting an arcane college. it would be awefully easy for another SK to use that to galvanize a population into war.
and then the first Sk would be the position knowing the effect that such a war will have, but not having much of a choice.
the PC's could be employed to weaken the second SK's city, etc, etc.
Alacryss is correct in saying that "Preserving is just a more careful form of defiling." However to start your transformation to become a Dragon, you must Defile and not only drain the life force of the land but organic life as well. Hamanu did not attempt to go from (game terms here) level 21 Dragon to level 30 in one fell swoop like King Kalak did. Since he's going about his transformation in a more "traditional" and slow way, the destruction he causes in that process is not so drastic. This allows him to spin it however he wants and claim he's preserving the land.
If he was truly trying to preserve the land, he would have become an Avangion which is an entirely different ritual to perform. Hamanu wants to become a Dragon which means he must defile to achieve it and there's no escaping that fact. That fact in my opinion.
Hamanu didn't get the choice to become a Dragon.
There was talk of how a preserver could become a dragon to rival the SK's by using willing followers that would not be killed (they would be reduced down to 1HD or something) or simply use herds of animals instead, as it also doesn't indicate that they animal life needs to be sentient.
If you go only by what the Heroes of Tyr think, then you'll be missing some of the pointers that are out there that indicate that it may not be only that way. Yes, Dragon Kings states that it must be specific way, but further developments and DM's descretion allow for other possibilies. And those other possibilites are more fun in 3.5 and now even more wide open in 4e.
Many other SKs, like Nibenay, Andropinis, the Oba, may have the same views from what we've gleaned of them in the Prism Pentad. Others, like Kalak, didn't seem to care about the effects of their magic.