That being said, the 62 page Atlas of Athas chapter is just too short. By a lot. It wasn't a satisfying read, and it didn't provide nearly enough plot hooks, oranizations, power structures, and other material needed to make a good campaign easily.
So I got to thinking... and pulled out my Eberron Campaign Guide...
The Eberron Campaign Guide is 285 pages and the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is 288 pages.
The Darksun Campaign Guide is 222 pages, and it is a Player's Guide and Campaign Guide in one.
What would it look like with 66 more pages added to the Atlas of Athas chapter?
Tyr would have 20 pages (double its curent length, and fitting for the adventure capital of the setting)
The other six major cities would have 10 pages each (equal to the current length of Tyr's section)
Each regional section could have gotten 2 more pages (doubling the size for most of them).
10 + 36 + 20 = 66 pages. 222 + 66 = 288. 288 being on par with the other campaign guides that don't share page space with player's guide material.
The best part is that they charge $40 for all three campaign settings.
This is what a campaign setting is supposed to be. Everything shouldn't be already totally set in stone. Just give me the core of a world and what sorts of things to expect there, let the people playing the game flesh out the world themselves.
I actually think Ebberon gave too much information.
so i can always go back and dig out material from them...and if i can't get anything from there...then there's always good ol' athas.org
so no biggie really.
I don't have the 4e books yet but the best thing about the 2nd Ed was the wanderer's Journal. It's enough to describe every location on the map with 2-3 sentences to fill a lot of space.
The Wander's Journal is 32% longer than the Atlas. So it is less setting content than the original box.
the one thing that would have been cool is a few pages dedicated to some oral histories, legends, and myths of the peoples of the Tyr region. i think there was something along those lines in the old 2e Dragon Kings book which was quite awesome. the 4e book mentions the dwarven heritage and how they have several stories and tales that have passed down orally for generations. same with some other races too. would've been sweet to have a few just for fun. otherwise i'm pretty happy with it as is...and honestly...i have every. single. 2e. dark sun book. ever. written. (i scoured the world for them - sourcebooks, modules, everything)
so i can always go back and dig out material from them...and if i can't get anything from there...then there's always good ol' athas.org
so no biggie really.
But what about the people that don't own every Darksun book ever printed, or go to internet sites to download even more books to supplement a 62 page world guide?
It is sort of like saying that getting half a meal at a restraunt is fine because you have food at home.
The fact that the DSCG is the smallest setting guide to date was disappointing. They could have added more in. 50 more pages of darksun love wouldn't of been a bad thing or hard to do.[edit] They could have added more artwork, as the CG is serious lacking where art could have been great. (like city-state visuals and another weapon display for instance.
The wanderer's journal being written from an in-universe perspective while still explaining enough to avoid being cryptic to those not living on Athas would make it longer. I know that's not the whole explanation for the length, but exposition and styling are certainly a fair chunk. I mean, the entire section about metal in the wanderer's journal could be reduced to a few sentences.
First two paragraphs: "Although metal is quite useful, and was once plentiful, it is now unfortunately very rare on Athas."
Third paragraph: "Without valuable metal for currency, barter is quite common for trade."
Fourth and fifth paragraph: "Those with metal tools and weapons have an edge over those who do not"
Sixth paragraph is unnecessary speculation to reinforce a point that wasn't more pointedly stated.
Seventh and eighth paragraphs repeats the first.
Nineth paragraph: "Metal armor is extremely rare, and almost always ancient, because only a fool would wear metal plate in modern Athas's heat."
Tenth (final) paragraph: "There are rumors that more metal may be found in ancient cities, which would be quite a valuable find."
So, ten paragraphs over two pages, when not written from an in-universe perspective, are reducable to a single paragraph.
I agree with Enclave that the lack of detail is a good thing. However, I would have liked to see them include some more pages on Ur Draxa, Kurn, and the Last Sea; and giving more detail to the Kreen empire, the Jagged Cliffs, and the Dead Land. I understand why they didn't, as much of that is connected to the revised setting's history (except the Kreen empire, which isn't exactly cosmopolitan), which would go against the lack of detail deal.
It is sort of like saying that getting half a meal at a restraunt is fine because you have food at home.
More accurately, getting a whole meal at a restaurant is fine if you're still hungry, because you love to cook and half plenty of food at home.
I love correcting analogies.
The dscg does indeed feel unfinished in regards to certain aspects. It was as disappointing as it was satisfying to read. I know a lot was left out so they could fill DDI articles.
Wotc could have done a lot better. Eberron is proof of that.
The DSCG leaves out a lot and only talks about certain things in passing. With the remaining book room, they could have explained the cosmology better and given some locales to use in the game instead of basically saying "athas is the focus, not planar travel", which is fine for people who enjoy it when wotc tells them what their games should be. The merchant houses and other organizations are only talked about in passing and there is no depth to any of it. The order is nothing more than a short paragraph in the ED, when the order is a major organization of the setting. Other important organizations like werrik's stalkers or the shadows are completely left out.
The point is that the Dark Sun cosmology doesn't matter that much. What matters are the day-to-day squabbles of the S-Ks, survival, killing monsters, and all that. Even a high-level PC just won't get into the Grey or Black, period, /discussion.
With the current DSCG, I actually have more freedom than I do with some other campaigns. Because there are so many blank spaces and so few novels to populate them, I can decide for myself what goes where, and exactly how many. With FR, I have to deal with every single stinking Drizzt novel.
It's a good thing the monster book is equally big.
(checks book)
Sunnova, it's smaller than the standard books!
From a business angle, I think the intension was to provide a campaign setting with a starting point (Tyr) and a large breadth of details about the world. This is in anticipation of DDI content to appear: the articles that have appeared so far have been very delicious in depth and usability. Get your 10-page spreads with depth-rich content through DDI. Each article will deal with one particular area, and provide a rich environment to roleplay.
Like it or hate it, this is the DDI of the future. No more (or at least fewer) supplements. Those "missing" 66 pages will appear... you'll just have to wait.
... I think.
This is not an excuse, but the CC was supposed to be a lot smaller and soft cover. However, they had too much "good" content to include, and eventually made it into a hardcover.
From a business angle, I think the intension was to provide a campaign setting with a starting point (Tyr) and a large breadth of details about the world. This is in anticipation of DDI content to appear: the articles that have appeared so far have been very delicious in depth and usability. Get your 10-page spreads with depth-rich content through DDI. Each article will deal with one particular area, and provide a rich environment to roleplay.
Like it or hate it, this is the DDI of the future. No more (or at least fewer) supplements. Those "missing" 66 pages will appear... you'll just have to wait.
... I think.
Or from a non-DDI point of view, this gives me plenty of wiggle room to populate things as I see fit. All the canon I need is in the one book.
The point is that the Dark Sun cosmology doesn't matter that much. What matters are the day-to-day squabbles of the S-Ks, survival, killing monsters, and all that. Even a high-level PC just won't get into the Grey or Black, period, /discussion.
Yes, it is possible to get into the gray. It's the shadowfell which is a plane for adventuring in at higher levels. Darksun characters CAN get into the gray, even back in 2e. Also, when you get into the higher levels, you run low on monsters to kill while adventuring on athas. A group of 26th level pcs are going to find it very hard to find challenges in the world.
Since dark sun's planes are different than those found elsewhere, it would have been very nice to get some example locations to use as a base for expansion through homebrew. It would have also been interesting to have more information on the differences.
With the current DSCG, I actually have more freedom than I do with some other campaigns. Because there are so many blank spaces and so few novels to populate them, I can decide for myself what goes where, and exactly how many. With FR, I have to deal with every single stinking Drizzt novel.
You have plenty of freedom with FR to do whatever you want. If you let anything stop you, it's not the settings fault for being a setting and not a blank slate to build a homebrewed world on. That is the purpose of settings. Pre-constructed, fully fleshed out worlds, ready to use out of the box with little to no effort needed. Novels don't dictate canon in 4e, so that excuse doesn't work, even with FR.
You'd also have an equal amount of freedom with DS even if they had included more content. The only reason I can see that they didn't put in more material is to sell more DDI subscriptions, because now they have tons of darksun material they can use, instead of creating brand new material, they will be selling us what's been done already and should have been in the books.
Now, I enjoyed the new DS books, but they dropped the ball more than once and it's very obvious. It's not the end of the world and I'll get any DDI material they release regardless, but it would have been nice to have a bit more, considering the CG and the PG were merged. That's a lot of material we don't get. We should have gotten a pg, a cg, the cc and an adventure.
Then again, I'v always disliked the two book, one adventure business model. Every setting should have a player guide, a campaign guide (dm), a monster book with setting specific monsters and a
adventure that connects from the introductory adventure found in the cgs.
PS: The athasian cosmology does matter. Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't. Since I enjoy it, it matters..
Something you may not notice now is that a solution they foundt is to put a LOT of fluff into the CC. Wait till you see the SK entries, or the various monsters. There's an amazing amount of fluff in the "monster" book, and it's DM-sensitive material put in a book most players won't buy.
To me, it's a brilliant solution.
Case in point, the Dragon. Someone with just the DSCS will have a very vague idea of what the Dragon is; personally, if that was all we knew about the Dragon in 4e, I'll be raging. Insert the CC, and you get a ton of important fluff on Borys, and it's safely removed from the player's hands.
That's imho the real reason the CC became hardcover. It's not a simple monster manual, it's a DM sourcebook.
You'd also have an equal amount of freedom with DS even if they had included more content. The only reason I can see that they didn't put in more material is to sell more DDI subscriptions, because now they have tons of darksun material they can use, instead of creating brand new material, they will be selling us what's been done already and should have been in the books.
Now, I enjoyed the new DS books, but they dropped the ball more than once and it's very obvious. It's not the end of the world and I'll get any DDI material they release regardless, but it would have been nice to have a bit more, considering the CG and the PG were merged. That's a lot of material we don't get. We should have gotten a pg, a cg, the cc and an adventure.
Then again, I'v always disliked the two book, one adventure business model. Every setting should have a player guide, a campaign guide (dm), a monster book with setting specific monsters and a
adventure that connects from the introductory adventure found in the cgs.
PS: The athasian cosmology does matter. Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't. Since I enjoy it, it matters..
Have you read the CC yet? Personally I find it to be the book with more DM insight of the two. There's more "story" (even for planes) in the CC than in the DSCS, and in my opinion, for the reasons stated above, it's the best solution.
As for planes... I agree they matter, but I'm happy they didn't go too indept. A very big problem of the Athasian cosmology (I say that as a Planescape hardcore aficionado) is that if you DO want to have Athas existing along with everything else (which I suspect it's something most DMs who run planar adventures will do) then it's a total pain to have a radically different cosmology.
If you think about it, the idea that the Feywild is the Feywild and there's so little on Athas because the Feywild is hard to access on Athas (rather than because it's nigh destroyed everywhere) works a lot better than saying that Athas has its own feywild. Yes, most DMs who don't run planar adventures will never care (to them, there's just Athas' feywild, and it's in ruins) but those who do can use all feywild material with minimal work. Same for the other sourcebooks. The setting shouldn't redo the planes, because that makes using published material hell. You should get the planes redone from Athas' perspective, so that if you're not concerned with planar travel you will just use the hints and vague info and keep it one sided, while if you want to use planar travel you can use everything published, and you're the final arbiter of what is actually cut off.
Rewriting the planes for Athas would always be a lot. It would be a loss with 1 page per plane, with 2 pages, or with 10. There's a supercool Shadowfell-dedicated boxed set coming up. If the Shadowfell was rewritten for Athas, using that would probably be problematic. This way, we're all free to use as much as we want.
It's a clear case of less is more, imho.
With the remaining book room, they could have explained the cosmology better and given some locales to use in the game instead of basically saying "athas is the focus, not planar travel", which is fine for people who enjoy it when wotc tells them what their games should be.
So which is it? Did they not provide enough or did they provide too much?
I mean, I see you saying here that you don't want WOTC telling you how to run your game, then saying:
If you let anything stop you, it's not the settings fault for being a setting and not a blank slate to build a homebrewed world on. That is the purpose of settings. Pre-constructed, fully fleshed out worlds, ready to use out of the box with little to no effort needed.
Couldn't someone just as easily say that it's up to you to decide the cosmology in Athas? I mean, it's not like it's hard. And you don't even have to deal with players saying, "But the book says it works like this..."
I can understand being a little miffed that the book is smaller than the other campaign guides, and maybe we do need moar stuffz, but as someone with no prior Dark Sun knowledge, I feel like I'm familiar enough with the world to run a campaign there. Maybe I would get some details "wrong" when compared to prior editions but... I don't really care.
I can understand being a little miffed that the book is smaller than the other campaign guides, and maybe we do need moar stuffz, but as someone with no prior Dark Sun knowledge, I feel like I'm familiar enough with the world to run a campaign there. Maybe I would get some details "wrong" when compared to prior editions but... I don't really care.
As someone who loved the crap out of the 2e Dark Sun, I'm in the exact same place.
Have you read the CC yet? Personally I find it to be the book with more DM insight of the two. There's more "story" (even for planes) in the CC than in the DSCS, and in my opinion, for the reasons stated above, it's the best solution.
Yes, I got it yesterday and I finished reading it a few hours later. It's a great resource for monsters, setting hazards and pretty helpful with some minor customization. It offers solid fluff on the monsters (for the most part) but only touches on planar information. It's a monster manual with a few extra bits and not in any way a replacement for a campaign guide for the DM. I think it's well done though I do have some criticisms about it. It does not provide information of the differences between the athasian planes and the PoL planes.
As for planes... I agree they matter, but I'm happy they didn't go too indept. A very big problem of the Athasian cosmology (I say that as a Planescape hardcore aficionado) is that if you DO want to have Athas existing along with everything else (which I suspect it's something most DMs who run planar adventures will do) then it's a total pain to have a radically different cosmology.
They don't even begin to reach a point where "in-depth" is a factor. It's a very vague introduction to the planes and nothing more and of very little help when trying to imagine how the athasian cosmology differs from that of the PoL. They did good with the moons. That's helpful info and I really enjoyed it.
The lands within the wind had more description in rich baker's blog. It doesn't say if it's a desert land, a forest land or anything. Pockets that could fit inside the walls of tyr can be found in a few spots on athas. So I'd guess that where ever these pockets are mirror their athasian counterpart. So the forest ridge mirror would be a devastated mockery of a forest while that found in the desert would be a dying oasis. I'v no idea if I'm correct since I'v no idea what the athasian feywild is like beyond being a ruined echo of the world. Not satisfying. Could have included more info and should have. Nothing on surviving archfey at all.
The Gray is another disappointment. What is the difference between the athasian shadowfell and the the PoL shadowfell? What locations are not found in the darksun version? Are the shadar-kai still part of that plane and if so, how do they differ? What influence has the baatorian devils had
on the shadowfell? I'v got a ton of other questions and absolutely no answers.
The Elemental Chaos leads to more of the same questions. What's different, what primordials are still running around? What are athasian githzerai in the elemental chaos like and how do they differ from the norm? So on and so on.
The abyss.... I assume it's the same. But how do the demon princes influence athas? Did primordials imprison any gods within the abyss, therefore turning them into corruptions of their former selves? Is anything different? Is this where the black is located? I got plenty to ask.
Speaking of which, what about the black and the hollow?
If you think about it, the idea that the Feywild is the Feywild and there's so little on Athas because the Feywild is hard to access on Athas (rather than because it's nigh destroyed everywhere) works a lot better than saying that Athas has its own feywild. Yes, most DMs who don't run planar adventures will never care (to them, there's just Athas' feywild, and it's in ruins) but those who do can use all feywild material with minimal work. Same for the other sourcebooks. The setting shouldn't redo the planes, because that makes using published material hell. You should get the planes redone from Athas' perspective, so that if you're not concerned with planar travel you will just use the hints and vague info and keep it one sided, while if you want to use planar travel you can use everything published, and you're the final arbiter of what is actually cut off.
Athasian planes should have their own spin. I would have liked professional work done on this. I can homebrew right now. As with anything. They should have had an entire chapter on athasian cosmology.
Rewriting the planes for Athas would always be a lot. It would be a loss with 1 page per plane, with 2 pages, or with 10. There's a supercool Shadowfell-dedicated boxed set coming up. If the Shadowfell was rewritten for Athas, using that would probably be problematic. This way, we're all free to use as much as we want.
A chapter on the planes would have been great and could have done a lot. I'm not talking about unrealistic detail, I'm talking about reasonable descriptions and examples to use out of the box. Something every other setting offers. Eberron and FR did a great job with this. Darksun failed to achieve the same in my eyes.
It's a clear case of less is more, imho.
But it's not. It's a disappointing part of the setting that will probably end up a DDI series if I'm lucky. Athasian cosmology used to be a very unique and interesting aspect of the setting and now it's little more than an expanded side bar. I don't really have many complaints about the new material. Maybe a handful of real issues. But the cosmology is among the biggest.
So which is it? Did they not provide enough or did they provide too much?
I mean, I see you saying here that you don't want WOTC telling you how to run your game, then saying:If you let anything stop you, it's not the settings fault for being a setting and not a blank slate to build a homebrewed world on. That is the purpose of settings. Pre-constructed, fully fleshed out worlds, ready to use out of the box with little to no effort needed.
Not enough information on the cosmology, the merchant houses and the organizations of athas. There is a different between telling me that planar travel isn't important in the setting and not giving me enough information in a fleshed out setting when that is the exact purpose of a setting. I'm not looking for a framework to create a homebrew world. I'm looking for a fleshed out setting like 4e eberron or 4e FR. Darksun simply falls short in certain areas where those other settings succeed.
Couldn't someone just as easily say that it's up to you to decide the cosmology in Athas? I mean, it's not like it's hard. And you don't even have to deal with players saying, "But the book says it works like this..."
When I buy a setting, I'm looking for a complete product. Not a mostly finished product with big gaps. Why bother making a setting at all? We can just create our own. Yes, I can design the cosmology and the organizations and the merchant house. I can also design the entire thing. Wotc want's my money and I want to buy quality products that offer what I'm looking for. Eberron does this as does FR. Darksun seems to have some of it's work incomplete. The cosmology looks like a brief draft for later work. Not a finished piece of material.
I can understand being a little miffed that the book is smaller than the other campaign guides, and maybe we do need moar stuffz, but as someone with no prior Dark Sun knowledge, I feel like I'm familiar enough with the world to run a campaign there. Maybe I would get some details "wrong" when compared to prior editions but... I don't really care.
That's fine. The books do offer enough to run endless adventures. That's not the point nor is that what I'm talking about. I can't make my point any clearer. The material is top notch except for a few very noticable spots where it seems they forgot to do the work. That's what it appears to be. They simply forgot to go back and finish. I'm sure that's not the case, but that's how it feels when I read through it. The atlas of athas is beyond excellent as are the player options, so I know they can do damn good work. So what happened with the cosmology, the organizations and the merchant houses? The books could have also used more artwork, same with the CC. Simply not enough art.
It is sort of like saying that getting half a meal at a restraunt is fine because you have food at home.
More accurately, getting a whole meal at a restaurant is fine if you're still hungry, because you love to cook and half plenty of food at home.
I love correcting analogies.
But when the market value of a burger at a sit down joint is $7.95 every where around you, you are going to get mad no matter how hunger you are if they bring you only half the burger.
While the Eberron guide had devoted pages to explain how all monsters etc worked differently, Athas has unique creatures and that's all fluff.
I disagree on the CC not being a fundamental integration for a DM. The "missing pages" on the core rulebook could be easily filled by having to have entries for describing the Dragon, the various SKs, what a psurlon or a tarek is, how do crodlus or erdlu or mekillots look, or with the extra info on the various races (especially humanoids).
While the Eberron guide had devoted pages to explain how all monsters etc worked differently, Athas has unique creatures and that's all fluff.
The look and feel of the various monsters is prolly going to be done using "miniatures" releases. Which means everyone is going to be stuck with five or ten Tembo and Sand Krakens, and thirty or forty Belgoi, but only one or two Kanks and one Crodlu , and no PC figures at all.
To be honest, I don't see a need for *that* much extra information. The CC has pretty good illustrations, and if the players grab some metagame information while looking at the picture, they're welcome to it. As for the Dragon... who on Athas other than the S-Ks, Tithian, and maybe a few of the highest-ranking Templars even know Borys exists? The focus in the CG is on day-to-day life on Athas, not a string of novels that reduced the metaplot of Dark Sun into a horrible trainwreck.
Everyone knows the dragon of tyr exists. He's a simple fact of athasian life. As real as the sun and the sand.
I was in a conversation with Mouseferatu in his LJ and his own personal preference is to leave gaps to be filled by the DM but with cool hints and ideas that the DM could flesh out.
I disagreed with him and agree with many here who are saying that we want a fleshed out world done by professionals. Yes, at any point I can write something. My point is that I shouldn't have to.
That's just me.
If not, what would folks recommend me get to supplement the CG and CC. I'm obviously just looking for some good fluff and setting details on areas not found or detailed sufficiently in the current books.
I actually found a LGS down in San Luis Obispo, CA with a HUGE selection of vintage D&D material and managed to pick up a boxed adventure set "Road to Urik" for less than $8. I didn't buy the Wanderer's Journal only because I wasn't sure if this was duplicated in the new CG. (I just got it recently and haven't had a chance to read through it)
I would greatly appreciate insight from those more informed than I.
I'd suggest looking into the athas.org material first and going from there. I'd suggest any and every 2e product you can find. Then again, I'm a fan of that material, so I'm not sure how helpful any of it would be to a new DS fans. The revised products also have some great fluff in them.
I was in a conversation with Mouseferatu in his LJ and his own personal preference is to leave gaps to be filled by the DM but with cool hints and ideas that the DM could flesh out.
I agree very strongly with Ari on this. As a DM, I don't railroad my players, so why would I want to feel like WotC is railroading me? Just give me the basics (and some juicy idea-seeds) and let my players and I turn it into our own world. I don't DM FR or Eberron games for the sole reason that those settings are too fleshed out, with very little room for coming up with original material that doesn't violate the established canon. DarkSun is a refreshing change, in that it is the only 'official' setting so far that I have any interest at all in either DMing or playing in, and that's almost entirely due to how "full of gaps" it is.
the campaign setting lacks depth - at first glance i guessed it is just a players handbook. people new to dark sun will not catch the flavour of this world with just that book. thanks god that i still own my old 1st and 2nd edition stuff.
really crap is the module. it not even is a module but a compilation of encounters (much like the other so called adventures). the story - if there is any - is just big enough to fill a twitter post. there are no villians portraited - say, villians are just obstacles or monsters with no explanations on their motivations or a glimpse of charisma.
so at first sight the new dark sun also looks like a skirmish scenario setting without the richness and depth of the old setting. sad...
so at first sight the new dark sun also looks like a skirmish scenario setting without the richness and depth of the old setting. sad...
Odd, I compare the new DSCS with the original boxed set and it bloody destroys the 2nd edition version in terms of crunch and fluff.
However, if what you're saying is you're surprised that they didn't manage to fit the content of around 30 2nd edition DS books in the new campaign guide, I would say that was to be expected.
I was in a conversation with Mouseferatu in his LJ and his own personal preference is to leave gaps to be filled by the DM but with cool hints and ideas that the DM could flesh out.
I agree very strongly with Ari on this. As a DM, I don't railroad my players, so why would I want to feel like WotC is railroading me? Just give me the basics (and some juicy idea-seeds) and let my players and I turn it into our own world. I don't DM FR or Eberron games for the sole reason that those settings are too fleshed out, with very little room for coming up with original material that doesn't violate the established canon. DarkSun is a refreshing change, in that it is the only 'official' setting so far that I have any interest at all in either DMing or playing in, and that's almost entirely due to how "full of gaps" it is.
First of all, this was NOT an attack on Ari, in any way, shape or form. We merely have different opinions on it and that's fine.
Second, where I am at, personally, is wanting some of it done for me but not all of it. It's a fine line. I don't want a designer to say, "there are seven secret organizations on this world" and that's it. Nor do I want all of them completely detailed to the point where changing anything for my own campaign has big impacts. But, I think there is a middle ground in that they could detail two and leave the rest up to the DM, with the example of the two they created. In those examples, they set up a group with the correct flavor and feel of Dark Sun, in this case, so that we can learn from them for our own creations. A template, if you will.
I say this because in the past, sourcebooks would hint at something but never flesh it out for many reasons. Instead of having a hint, just give me some good ideas, instead of being vague about it. Again, though, it's a fine line that is tough to define.
turlough
First of all, this was NOT an attack on Ari, in any way, shape or form. We merely have different opinions on it and that's fine.
I'm not sure why you would think I didn't realise that. I was just stating that my position is closer to Ari's than it is to yours. I certainly understand your position, I'm just glad (on a purely selfish/personal level) that WotC took a different approach.
Again, though, it's a fine line that is tough to define.
I think it's more that we all draw that line in different places.
In any case, I'm sure DDi articles will continue to flesh out the 4th edition version of DarkSun (see the excellent 'Playing Templars' article, for example). I think that's a good way to address this sort of thing. People like you who want more in-depth information can get it from the articles, while people like me can largely stick with the published campaign setting book and add our own homebrew stuff to it (and take the odd thing we really like from the articles).
Example: If an article appears in Dungeon or Dragon that makes it unambiguous that Ablach-Re is a blithering idiot, that doesn't need to affect a campaign I might be running where her apparently mindless hedonism and lack of control over her own city are actually a major case of Obfuscating Stupidity, hiding a plot that would impress Nibenay with its fiendish cunning. However, if Ablach-Re's incompetence were utterly unambiguous and obvious in the actual campaign setting book, my players would be quite entitled to throw up their hands and call me unpleasant names for making that "not actually true" in my campaign.
I think this is the closest WotC can possibly get to keeping both of us happy. Or at least reasonably content.
so at first sight the new dark sun also looks like a skirmish scenario setting without the richness and depth of the old setting. sad...
Odd, I compare the new DSCS with the original boxed set and it bloody destroys the 2nd edition version in terms of crunch and fluff.
However, if what you're saying is you're surprised that they didn't manage to fit the content of around 30 2nd edition DS books in the new campaign guide, I would say that was to be expected.
I must correct myself: The Campaign settng is great. I was talking about the module. After reading it front to end I m still isapointed:
- no personalities
- no villian
- no storyline
just a bunch of encounters (some of them are clever designed)