The population of the Tyr region - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The population of the Tyr region

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
scubasteve29
Mar 01, 2011 15:51:22 So I was going over a few bits of fluff about city sizes I got to thinking about the actual population of Athas.

I went through the "... At a Glance" sections for each city and built up a rough estimate for populations as well as the racial breakdowns. There were a few places I had to totally guess, such as the outlying areas of Draj and Gulg, as well as the halfling population of the Forest Ridge (I probably underestimated), but came up with a number: 360,000.

This only includes the cities, their outlying areas, and the forest ridge though. I don't know how many people live out in the wilderness, in outposts and villages, but if, say, 20% of the people lived in the wild that'd make the total population closer to 430,000.

Why does this matter? No clue. I just thought it'd be interesting.

~Scuba
#2
turlough
Mar 03, 2011 9:42:42 I think we went through a population thread a while ago but it's nice to revisit them.

From what I can tell, based on "real world" examples and how population works, either a population is growing, no matter how slow a rate, or it's not. Using some formulas I had, and excel, if you use the population numbers in most of the books (2E or 4E), the population would last another 50 years with the levies for the dragon still happening. There is no way I could figure out how the population could be growing with the starting numbers given and having a levy.

Further, it gets worse when you start realizing that they are doing organic and subsistance farming, which means that they have to be 400% efficient with growing to support the population they do have. (I can hopefully give sites on this if they still exist and I can find them but it was a site on population and farming and how much land and people had to be farming tos upport themselves and the populations of the cities. If nothing else, it was a good read on how labor intensive farming is without modern machines.) It's just not possible for any of the city states to continue to exist with the small amount of land they have for growing and herding and feed the populations they have.

From that, pretty much just hand wave it with whatever population numbers you want or need for the story. The city states have "lots" villages have "enough, too many or too few" and the wastes have none.

If, however, you say that the population is growing enough to cover the levy, then it gets more interesting to me. Assuming that the sorcerer kings want to live forever and need the levy, for whatever reason you want to assign for the levy, then it means that the SKs have to help or be working toward increasing their population. This gives the SK a non evil, but still selfish, motivation to help their people and see them thrive. This also means that they can't kill lots of people but can make a really good example of one or two to keep the rest in line. Or fill up dungeons or slave farms with new workers. (Maybe even a faked death with illusion and the person is sent to a slave farm?)

It's one of those things that falls under drama and accept it and keep going with the story.

Of course, this is all my opinion and my want of "realism" in a game! YMMV
#3
tyrantlobe
Mar 09, 2011 10:46:38 The numbers of the Dragon's levy always seemed a bit excessive to me, combined with the fact that there aren't many people living on Athas, I could never understand how the planet hadn't run out of people.

I decided in my own game that the amount of people that the Dragon takes is far less than what most published content states and/or the Dragon takes its levy from only one or two city-states every year.
#4
gav911
Mar 19, 2011 13:16:38 Do not forget this is a fantasy world and it does not, inherently, have to make sense. Trying to make sense of it is a path to insanity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 scubasteve29 Mar 01, 2011 15:51:22	So I was going over a few bits of fluff about city sizes I got to thinking about the actual population of Athas. I went through the "... At a Glance" sections for each city and built up a rough estimate for populations as well as the racial breakdowns. There were a few places I had to totally guess, such as the outlying areas of Draj and Gulg, as well as the halfling population of the Forest Ridge (I probably underestimated), but came up with a number: 360,000. This only includes the cities, their outlying areas, and the forest ridge though. I don't know how many people live out in the wilderness, in outposts and villages, but if, say, 20% of the people lived in the wild that'd make the total population closer to 430,000. Why does this matter? No clue. I just thought it'd be interesting. ~Scuba
#2 turlough Mar 03, 2011 9:42:42	I think we went through a population thread a while ago but it's nice to revisit them. From what I can tell, based on "real world" examples and how population works, either a population is growing, no matter how slow a rate, or it's not. Using some formulas I had, and excel, if you use the population numbers in most of the books (2E or 4E), the population would last another 50 years with the levies for the dragon still happening. There is no way I could figure out how the population could be growing with the starting numbers given and having a levy. Further, it gets worse when you start realizing that they are doing organic and subsistance farming, which means that they have to be 400% efficient with growing to support the population they do have. (I can hopefully give sites on this if they still exist and I can find them but it was a site on population and farming and how much land and people had to be farming tos upport themselves and the populations of the cities. If nothing else, it was a good read on how labor intensive farming is without modern machines.) It's just not possible for any of the city states to continue to exist with the small amount of land they have for growing and herding and feed the populations they have. From that, pretty much just hand wave it with whatever population numbers you want or need for the story. The city states have "lots" villages have "enough, too many or too few" and the wastes have none. If, however, you say that the population is growing enough to cover the levy, then it gets more interesting to me. Assuming that the sorcerer kings want to live forever and need the levy, for whatever reason you want to assign for the levy, then it means that the SKs have to help or be working toward increasing their population. This gives the SK a non evil, but still selfish, motivation to help their people and see them thrive. This also means that they can't kill lots of people but can make a really good example of one or two to keep the rest in line. Or fill up dungeons or slave farms with new workers. (Maybe even a faked death with illusion and the person is sent to a slave farm?) It's one of those things that falls under drama and accept it and keep going with the story. Of course, this is all my opinion and my want of "realism" in a game! YMMV
#3 tyrantlobe Mar 09, 2011 10:46:38	The numbers of the Dragon's levy always seemed a bit excessive to me, combined with the fact that there aren't many people living on Athas, I could never understand how the planet hadn't run out of people. I decided in my own game that the amount of people that the Dragon takes is far less than what most published content states and/or the Dragon takes its levy from only one or two city-states every year.
#4 gav911 Mar 19, 2011 13:16:38	Do not forget this is a fantasy world and it does not, inherently, have to make sense. Trying to make sense of it is a path to insanity.