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the value of Metals

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
scubasteve29
Aug 10, 2010 2:53:58 According to the eight characteristics of Athas excerpt "Steel blades are almost priceless, weapons that many heroes never see during their lifetimes."

What about other metals, like copper, bronze, or iron? would something like a copper sword still be seen as unattainable and priceless, or simply a rarity?
#2
Palladinae
Aug 10, 2010 5:40:46 I think all metal as whole is rare. Remember, Tyr's mine is one leftover, that was not used in past, because of scarcity of veins. So basically, there is one mine of very poor quality metal in whole world.
#3
mouthymerc
Aug 10, 2010 8:49:54 Yes, all metals are very rare.
#4
scubasteve29
Aug 10, 2010 11:12:41 Just checking. I was thinking about giving out a metal sword in a small campaign (which would go on to create it's own conflicts) I just didn't want to give out something hyper rare and precious.

Similarly, I read that while less common, coins are still used as currency which made me wonder if somebody collected enough copper coins that they could forge their own low quality weapon.
#5
Cyber-Dave
Aug 10, 2010 12:30:45 Back in 2e, copper coins were described as being as valuable as gold coins in any other setting. I don't know if that is still true.
#6
commieclone
Aug 10, 2010 12:33:56 Don't have the 4e books, but way back in the day the majority of coins were made from ceramics.
#7
pole287
Aug 11, 2010 16:15:58 More information on the rarities of metal really interests me anyone got some information on what the new books say in detail about it?
#8
FlashbackJon
Aug 11, 2010 16:25:30 We know, even just from the previews, that weapons and armor can only be acquired in metal with a minimum enhancement bonus of +3.
#9
mouthymerc
Aug 11, 2010 17:29:24 Athas is described as nearly bereft of metals. Metal items, weapons or armour or others, only appear as ancient enchanted items. A weaponsmith or armorer would be lucky to ever have enough metal in his entire lifetime to make anything of it. Not to mention that many of the techniques to work with it have been lost at this point it is that rare. It is even more rare than in the original setting.

While the map still includes the Iron Mines of Tyr no information is given on them (at least none that I've run across yet). If the iron produced by them is still being accounted for, I think any metal produced is used minimally, probably in combination with other materials like wood and bone.

Oh, and the minimum enchantment bonus is +2.
#10
bruul
Aug 11, 2010 21:23:50 There has to be some. What else are they gonna chain slaves with, rope? Iron chains would seem mandatory to me. Obviously iron weapons would be pretty crummy quality and way heavier than steel. I think there are few metal weapons as there are no weapon smiths that actually work the stuff anymore. Obsidian, bone, wood, these are the materials that smiths, if you can call them that, are working with on Athas. Locks are another thing that iron would be used for. What little iron comes out of Tyr's mines is likey tied up with these things of the slave trade: Chains, locks, some hinges, tools, etc. To actully smelt the stuff into weapon grade steel would be lost knowledge after 2000 of SK domination of the region.
#11
commieclone
Aug 12, 2010 0:51:17 If memory serves, slave restraints are typically made of bone and giant-hair rope.

Tyr's iron flow was directed (again, if memory serves) into two main things: first, arming Tyr's military and templarate (WJ said that every Tyrian templar had at least an iron longsword and were among the best-equipped in the region) and to Urik (in order to make/repair tools that were in turn used to mine obsidian). Although as Kalak's big project came closer to completion the mines more or less shut down as he funneled all available resources into the Ziggurat.
#12
Pennarin
Aug 12, 2010 0:51:52 Tyr's iron mine is still running strong, so is Walis' gold mine, and Raam's gemstone mine has run dry (from 2e material we know, IIRC, that it's silver mine has run dry as well).

I don't recall any other stuff being mined besides stone, alabaster, and obsidian.
#13
commieclone
Aug 12, 2010 2:09:53 Black Spine mtns have a small but functional iron mine, too. It was a big secret of Nibenay's before the Githyanki up and stole it.

Although honestly, I don't think the authors of that particular super adventure had quite realized the political ramifications of deciding Nibenay has a secret iron mine.

Also the dwarves of Saragar have a mine that's run dry.
#14
Palladinae
Aug 12, 2010 5:29:22 As far as I remember, it has been stated that Tyr's mine were left with iron, because ancients did not exploited it. Vein was so thin and lacking in quality, the left it untouched.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 scubasteve29 Aug 10, 2010 2:53:58	According to the eight characteristics of Athas excerpt "Steel blades are almost priceless, weapons that many heroes never see during their lifetimes." What about other metals, like copper, bronze, or iron? would something like a copper sword still be seen as unattainable and priceless, or simply a rarity?
#2 Palladinae Aug 10, 2010 5:40:46	I think all metal as whole is rare. Remember, Tyr's mine is one leftover, that was not used in past, because of scarcity of veins. So basically, there is one mine of very poor quality metal in whole world.
#3 mouthymerc Aug 10, 2010 8:49:54	Yes, all metals are very rare.
#4 scubasteve29 Aug 10, 2010 11:12:41	Just checking. I was thinking about giving out a metal sword in a small campaign (which would go on to create it's own conflicts) I just didn't want to give out something hyper rare and precious. Similarly, I read that while less common, coins are still used as currency which made me wonder if somebody collected enough copper coins that they could forge their own low quality weapon.
#5 Cyber-Dave Aug 10, 2010 12:30:45	Back in 2e, copper coins were described as being as valuable as gold coins in any other setting. I don't know if that is still true.
#6 commieclone Aug 10, 2010 12:33:56	Don't have the 4e books, but way back in the day the majority of coins were made from ceramics.
#7 pole287 Aug 11, 2010 16:15:58	More information on the rarities of metal really interests me anyone got some information on what the new books say in detail about it?
#8 FlashbackJon Aug 11, 2010 16:25:30	We know, even just from the previews, that weapons and armor can only be acquired in metal with a minimum enhancement bonus of +3.
#9 mouthymerc Aug 11, 2010 17:29:24	Athas is described as nearly bereft of metals. Metal items, weapons or armour or others, only appear as ancient enchanted items. A weaponsmith or armorer would be lucky to ever have enough metal in his entire lifetime to make anything of it. Not to mention that many of the techniques to work with it have been lost at this point it is that rare. It is even more rare than in the original setting. While the map still includes the Iron Mines of Tyr no information is given on them (at least none that I've run across yet). If the iron produced by them is still being accounted for, I think any metal produced is used minimally, probably in combination with other materials like wood and bone. Oh, and the minimum enchantment bonus is +2.
#10 bruul Aug 11, 2010 21:23:50	There has to be some. What else are they gonna chain slaves with, rope? Iron chains would seem mandatory to me. Obviously iron weapons would be pretty crummy quality and way heavier than steel. I think there are few metal weapons as there are no weapon smiths that actually work the stuff anymore. Obsidian, bone, wood, these are the materials that smiths, if you can call them that, are working with on Athas. Locks are another thing that iron would be used for. What little iron comes out of Tyr's mines is likey tied up with these things of the slave trade: Chains, locks, some hinges, tools, etc. To actully smelt the stuff into weapon grade steel would be lost knowledge after 2000 of SK domination of the region.
#11 commieclone Aug 12, 2010 0:51:17	If memory serves, slave restraints are typically made of bone and giant-hair rope. Tyr's iron flow was directed (again, if memory serves) into two main things: first, arming Tyr's military and templarate (WJ said that every Tyrian templar had at least an iron longsword and were among the best-equipped in the region) and to Urik (in order to make/repair tools that were in turn used to mine obsidian). Although as Kalak's big project came closer to completion the mines more or less shut down as he funneled all available resources into the Ziggurat.
#12 Pennarin Aug 12, 2010 0:51:52	Tyr's iron mine is still running strong, so is Walis' gold mine, and Raam's gemstone mine has run dry (from 2e material we know, IIRC, that it's silver mine has run dry as well). I don't recall any other stuff being mined besides stone, alabaster, and obsidian.
#13 commieclone Aug 12, 2010 2:09:53	Black Spine mtns have a small but functional iron mine, too. It was a big secret of Nibenay's before the Githyanki up and stole it. Although honestly, I don't think the authors of that particular super adventure had quite realized the political ramifications of deciding Nibenay has a secret iron mine. Also the dwarves of Saragar have a mine that's run dry.
#14 Palladinae Aug 12, 2010 5:29:22	As far as I remember, it has been stated that Tyr's mine were left with iron, because ancients did not exploited it. Vein was so thin and lacking in quality, the left it untouched.