Updating AD&D Freedom module - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Updating AD&D Freedom module

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
highbulp
May 28, 2011 22:55:00 So I just got the DSCG, and I'm eagerly hoping to start running a campaign set in Athas next week. Based on some of the feedback on the boards, I was thinking that maybe the AD&D modules might be a better introduction to the setting (none of our group has ever done anything in Dark Sun).

Has anyone else updated the old "Freedom" module to 4e? Do you have any thoughts about how well it worked out? Even better--do you have notes (or even statblocks) from the conversion that I could look at and use?

Or more simple question: for people who have never done anything in Dark Sun, would "Freedom" or "Sand Raiders"+"Vault of Darom Madar" be a better "intro" to the setting?

Thanks!
#2
mach4
May 29, 2011 5:35:05 Nothing out of the Freedom adventure should be all that challenging to stat out in 4e. Most of it can be just the basic blocks straight from the 4e books. If you or someone in your group has an insider subscription, you can downscale some of the stat blocks a little easier.

As for the second question, that depends really on how you intend to present the setting overall as to which would be the best opening scenario for the players. On one hand is an adventure where the players are duped, enslaved, forced to fight in an arena, and are then forced to simply survive an epic event taking place while doing either what little acts of good they can or whatever it will take for them to survive the ritual of Kalak. On the other hand is an adventure where the players act as couriers, get tippped off about some treasure, bugger some elves for information, dungeon crawl a bit, and head back home with loot. While Vault has every reference one could expect from an adventure on Athas, it's one of a ten thousand treasure hunts out there and a very basic one at that, this one just happend to be set in Dark Sun instead of somewhere else. To each their own in the end though.
#3
highbulp
May 29, 2011 12:41:54 I'm sure I can stat stuff out if I need to, but I was curious if anyone else had done the work so as not to duplicate effort

And it doesn't look like I can just snag stuff out of the book. If the PCs are level 1, then having them encounter the Level 10 Human Templar (the only templar I can find in the Creature Guide) isn't really going to work. Similarly, the stat'd Muls and Half-Giants are around Level 8, so having the PCs run into a large group of them feels off. I can level-down the creatures if I have to (or grab other monsters and reflavor), but I was hoping someone else had already figure out what levels to adjust to and/or what monsters out of the Compendium to reflavor.

I've also got access to the Blood Arena adventure, which feels a bit more "Athas" than the Vault (you get betrayed by conviving elves and thrown in an Arena). But I've been trying to avoid "betraying" my players too often...

But thanks for the feedback!
#4
mach4
May 29, 2011 18:40:59 Betrayal is fine even if used often, so long as there are always 'outs' to the betrayal (and that you have something planned if the PCs are onto it from the get-go). I've never been particularly fond of "and everyone gets arrested and thrown in jail" styles myself. I've not read through that particular adventure so I do not know if there are contingencies at all to account for that. I've never thought of most Athasian society to be very scrupulous anyhow.

Edit since my interbuts are acting up:

The nice thing about starting with Freedom as opposed to Sand Raiders is the number of contacts established early on along with the tie in to the much better module Road to Urik with those contacts as recuring NPCs. The con may be that the PCs feel alot of attatchment to Tyr by the end which can be problematic when you want them to be elsewhere for extended lengths of time (players always tend to head 'home' after things seem to be wrapped up).

As for the stats issue, pool together a few bucks from your players and get a sub to DDI for the monster builder. The account can easily be shared and the builder makes the very unintuitive scaling of creatures A LOT easier. I doubt anyone will objext to heavily to pitching 2-3 bucks each a month for the 10 dollar sub (less if you buy in chunks though I don't see even that as being something you need a recurring access to if you plan things out).

#5
highbulp
May 29, 2011 19:10:14
Betrayal is fine even if used often, so long as there are always 'outs' to the betrayal (and that you have something planned if the PCs are onto it from the get-go). I've never been particularly fond of "and everyone gets arrested and thrown in jail" styles myself. I've not read through that particular adventure so I do not know if there are contingencies at all to account for that. I've never thought of most Athasian society to be very scrupulous anyhow.

Edit since my interbuts are acting up:

The nice thing about starting with Freedom as opposed to Sand Raiders is the number of contacts established early on along with the tie in to the much better module Road to Urik with those contacts as recuring NPCs. The con may be that the PCs feel alot of attatchment to Tyr by the end which can be problematic when you want them to be elsewhere for extended lengths of time (players always tend to head 'home' after things seem to be wrapped up).

As for the stats issue, pool together a few bucks from your players and get a sub to DDI for the monster builder. The account can easily be shared and the builder makes the very unintuitive scaling of creatures A LOT easier. I doubt anyone will objext to heavily to pitching 2-3 bucks each a month for the 10 dollar sub (less if you buy in chunks though I don't see even that as being something you need a recurring access to if you plan things out).

I have a D&DI account (as you can see from the little badge on my posts). But as I'm working on a Mac, I can't easily open the old Monster builder, and unless something has changes, the new builder doesn't really build monsters. But really, -1 att -1 def -1 damage per level isn't hard to apply on the fly anyway ;p

And that doesn't answer the question anyway, which was "has someone else already made a guess as to what level to adjust which creatures to for use in the module?" It isn't that I can't do it, but wondering if anyone else had pointers at which levels to shift things too. But if not, I can deal. Thanks
#6
khorne37
May 31, 2011 11:14:18 I actually ran Freedom as my introduction adventure and there is not a whole lot of combat involved in the module. When there was combat I did the encounter on the fly just skining some of the low level stuff to be half giants or what not. I think it went well after that I ran the tomb of damor mader and the dune sea adveture. I am also going to end up redoing of the super adventures but I am not sure which one. Black spine or dragons crwon.
#7
mach4
May 31, 2011 16:07:03 Black Spine was in my opinion far less interesting of an adventure having a generally railroad style of progression. Nearly every encounter is a combat based one and it is nearly one encounter after another, after another. It was a better read than it was to actually run a group through it.

Dragon's Crown on the other hand had much more wiggle room for both the players and the DM, but the disadvantage may be in actually keeping the PCs on track. There is a lot more NPC interactions besides simply combat set-ups and though some of them have back story in prior adventures (Korgunard specifically in Arcane Shadows). Our group wound up keeping the Patchwork Man as a reoccurring NPC. Generally I found that Dragon's Crown was much more fun to run and more fun for the players overall.
#8
Scyner
May 31, 2011 22:45:39 I don't know that it will answer you question but I am currently DM'ing Freedom in Play-by-Post (warning: self promotion incoming!):
community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven...

I am also Running Sand Raiders + Vault of Darom Madar
community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven...

and previously ran Sand Raiders already once (with the group that became the Freedom group above).
community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven...

The nice thing of PbP is that I only need to create the NPCs or Monsters as needed and I am doing what Mach4 mentioned above: using the the level down feature in the monster vault.

I also fully agree with Mach4 on Freedom being a much better intro to the Athas world.
Sand Raiders + Vault could be run almost the same way in a different world, so it is just another treasure chase with mean Elves, sand and hot temperature...

Freedom is truly unique to Athas & DSCS, but it is not for every player... Some will have a hard time seeing their character being "unfairly" caught and thrown into slavery, then submitted to abuse by guards an templars... If you look at the OOC thread you will actually see one of my players expressing frustration and not enjoying this aventure as much as Sand Raiders, which was ran as an intro to Freedom. He is notably complaining about lack of choice, which is interesting considering the Sand Raiders adventure is 100% railroaded while Freedom is a bunch of modular encounters, some of which can be ignored by players and/or the DM (In my game for instance, players did not seem to care to investigate much about the potential rebellion in the Slave camp, so I did not make encounters linked to that happen, also if you see someone being abused by a bunch of elves or a fight errupt between two gladiators, you don't have to step-in, so the element of choice is still very much there).

To me the initial hazing and abuse in Freedom is necessary to make the outcome of the adventure seem even more formidable and the rise as heroes (even if minor ones) of the oppressed peoples more enjoyable. It will also "traumatize" players and make them HATE Templars above all, which is a feeling you will have by picking up and reading any of the old Dark Sun Novels...

Anyway I digress since I am only answering the question: which is the best intro adventure?...

As far as your question about adapting encounters, well you can find a few answers in the adventure I am DM'ing in the link above... You can also learn from my mistake and buff/nerf some encounters.
The current part that is going on right now (skill challenge to enter the Ziggurat with the necklace from the Veilled Alliance) is actually 100% made up and not in the module. I just wanted to tie in more Veilled Alliance action and I believe there was something about necklaces being hidden by the VA at different spots in the Ziggurat in the Novels... Tithian was spending some time looking for them (though it was not clear what those necklaces were doing at the end of the day)... I read those over 10 years ago so recollection not reliable...

Here I go I digress again, off topic! So I will stop!

Yes run Freedom and yes use the tool with downscaling of existing NPCs... with some work hopefully already done in my PbP thread.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 highbulp May 28, 2011 22:55:00	So I just got the DSCG, and I'm eagerly hoping to start running a campaign set in Athas next week. Based on some of the feedback on the boards, I was thinking that maybe the AD&D modules might be a better introduction to the setting (none of our group has ever done anything in Dark Sun). Has anyone else updated the old "Freedom" module to 4e? Do you have any thoughts about how well it worked out? Even better--do you have notes (or even statblocks) from the conversion that I could look at and use? Or more simple question: for people who have never done anything in Dark Sun, would "Freedom" or "Sand Raiders"+"Vault of Darom Madar" be a better "intro" to the setting? Thanks!
#2 mach4 May 29, 2011 5:35:05	Nothing out of the Freedom adventure should be all that challenging to stat out in 4e. Most of it can be just the basic blocks straight from the 4e books. If you or someone in your group has an insider subscription, you can downscale some of the stat blocks a little easier. As for the second question, that depends really on how you intend to present the setting overall as to which would be the best opening scenario for the players. On one hand is an adventure where the players are duped, enslaved, forced to fight in an arena, and are then forced to simply survive an epic event taking place while doing either what little acts of good they can or whatever it will take for them to survive the ritual of Kalak. On the other hand is an adventure where the players act as couriers, get tippped off about some treasure, bugger some elves for information, dungeon crawl a bit, and head back home with loot. While Vault has every reference one could expect from an adventure on Athas, it's one of a ten thousand treasure hunts out there and a very basic one at that, this one just happend to be set in Dark Sun instead of somewhere else. To each their own in the end though.
#3 highbulp May 29, 2011 12:41:54	I'm sure I can stat stuff out if I need to, but I was curious if anyone else had done the work so as not to duplicate effort And it doesn't look like I can just snag stuff out of the book. If the PCs are level 1, then having them encounter the Level 10 Human Templar (the only templar I can find in the Creature Guide) isn't really going to work. Similarly, the stat'd Muls and Half-Giants are around Level 8, so having the PCs run into a large group of them feels off. I can level-down the creatures if I have to (or grab other monsters and reflavor), but I was hoping someone else had already figure out what levels to adjust to and/or what monsters out of the Compendium to reflavor. I've also got access to the Blood Arena adventure, which feels a bit more "Athas" than the Vault (you get betrayed by conviving elves and thrown in an Arena). But I've been trying to avoid "betraying" my players too often... But thanks for the feedback!
#4 mach4 May 29, 2011 18:40:59	Betrayal is fine even if used often, so long as there are always 'outs' to the betrayal (and that you have something planned if the PCs are onto it from the get-go). I've never been particularly fond of "and everyone gets arrested and thrown in jail" styles myself. I've not read through that particular adventure so I do not know if there are contingencies at all to account for that. I've never thought of most Athasian society to be very scrupulous anyhow. Edit since my interbuts are acting up: The nice thing about starting with Freedom as opposed to Sand Raiders is the number of contacts established early on along with the tie in to the much better module Road to Urik with those contacts as recuring NPCs. The con may be that the PCs feel alot of attatchment to Tyr by the end which can be problematic when you want them to be elsewhere for extended lengths of time (players always tend to head 'home' after things seem to be wrapped up). As for the stats issue, pool together a few bucks from your players and get a sub to DDI for the monster builder. The account can easily be shared and the builder makes the very unintuitive scaling of creatures A LOT easier. I doubt anyone will objext to heavily to pitching 2-3 bucks each a month for the 10 dollar sub (less if you buy in chunks though I don't see even that as being something you need a recurring access to if you plan things out).
#5 highbulp May 29, 2011 19:10:14	Betrayal is fine even if used often, so long as there are always 'outs' to the betrayal (and that you have something planned if the PCs are onto it from the get-go). I've never been particularly fond of "and everyone gets arrested and thrown in jail" styles myself. I've not read through that particular adventure so I do not know if there are contingencies at all to account for that. I've never thought of most Athasian society to be very scrupulous anyhow. Edit since my interbuts are acting up: The nice thing about starting with Freedom as opposed to Sand Raiders is the number of contacts established early on along with the tie in to the much better module Road to Urik with those contacts as recuring NPCs. The con may be that the PCs feel alot of attatchment to Tyr by the end which can be problematic when you want them to be elsewhere for extended lengths of time (players always tend to head 'home' after things seem to be wrapped up). As for the stats issue, pool together a few bucks from your players and get a sub to DDI for the monster builder. The account can easily be shared and the builder makes the very unintuitive scaling of creatures A LOT easier. I doubt anyone will objext to heavily to pitching 2-3 bucks each a month for the 10 dollar sub (less if you buy in chunks though I don't see even that as being something you need a recurring access to if you plan things out). I have a D&DI account (as you can see from the little badge on my posts). But as I'm working on a Mac, I can't easily open the old Monster builder, and unless something has changes, the new builder doesn't really build monsters. But really, -1 att -1 def -1 damage per level isn't hard to apply on the fly anyway ;p And that doesn't answer the question anyway, which was "has someone else already made a guess as to what level to adjust which creatures to for use in the module?" It isn't that I can't do it, but wondering if anyone else had pointers at which levels to shift things too. But if not, I can deal. Thanks
#6 khorne37 May 31, 2011 11:14:18	I actually ran Freedom as my introduction adventure and there is not a whole lot of combat involved in the module. When there was combat I did the encounter on the fly just skining some of the low level stuff to be half giants or what not. I think it went well after that I ran the tomb of damor mader and the dune sea adveture. I am also going to end up redoing of the super adventures but I am not sure which one. Black spine or dragons crwon.
#7 mach4 May 31, 2011 16:07:03	Black Spine was in my opinion far less interesting of an adventure having a generally railroad style of progression. Nearly every encounter is a combat based one and it is nearly one encounter after another, after another. It was a better read than it was to actually run a group through it. Dragon's Crown on the other hand had much more wiggle room for both the players and the DM, but the disadvantage may be in actually keeping the PCs on track. There is a lot more NPC interactions besides simply combat set-ups and though some of them have back story in prior adventures (Korgunard specifically in Arcane Shadows). Our group wound up keeping the Patchwork Man as a reoccurring NPC. Generally I found that Dragon's Crown was much more fun to run and more fun for the players overall.
#8 Scyner May 31, 2011 22:45:39	I don't know that it will answer you question but I am currently DM'ing Freedom in Play-by-Post (warning: self promotion incoming!): community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven... I am also Running Sand Raiders + Vault of Darom Madar community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven... and previously ran Sand Raiders already once (with the group that became the Freedom group above). community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven... The nice thing of PbP is that I only need to create the NPCs or Monsters as needed and I am doing what Mach4 mentioned above: using the the level down feature in the monster vault. I also fully agree with Mach4 on Freedom being a much better intro to the Athas world. Sand Raiders + Vault could be run almost the same way in a different world, so it is just another treasure chase with mean Elves, sand and hot temperature... Freedom is truly unique to Athas & DSCS, but it is not for every player... Some will have a hard time seeing their character being "unfairly" caught and thrown into slavery, then submitted to abuse by guards an templars... If you look at the OOC thread you will actually see one of my players expressing frustration and not enjoying this aventure as much as Sand Raiders, which was ran as an intro to Freedom. He is notably complaining about lack of choice, which is interesting considering the Sand Raiders adventure is 100% railroaded while Freedom is a bunch of modular encounters, some of which can be ignored by players and/or the DM (In my game for instance, players did not seem to care to investigate much about the potential rebellion in the Slave camp, so I did not make encounters linked to that happen, also if you see someone being abused by a bunch of elves or a fight errupt between two gladiators, you don't have to step-in, so the element of choice is still very much there). To me the initial hazing and abuse in Freedom is necessary to make the outcome of the adventure seem even more formidable and the rise as heroes (even if minor ones) of the oppressed peoples more enjoyable. It will also "traumatize" players and make them HATE Templars above all, which is a feeling you will have by picking up and reading any of the old Dark Sun Novels... Anyway I digress since I am only answering the question: which is the best intro adventure?... As far as your question about adapting encounters, well you can find a few answers in the adventure I am DM'ing in the link above... You can also learn from my mistake and buff/nerf some encounters. The current part that is going on right now (skill challenge to enter the Ziggurat with the necklace from the Veilled Alliance) is actually 100% made up and not in the module. I just wanted to tie in more Veilled Alliance action and I believe there was something about necklaces being hidden by the VA at different spots in the Ziggurat in the Novels... Tithian was spending some time looking for them (though it was not clear what those necklaces were doing at the end of the day)... I read those over 10 years ago so recollection not reliable... Here I go I digress again, off topic! So I will stop! Yes run Freedom and yes use the tool with downscaling of existing NPCs... with some work hopefully already done in my PbP thread.