Weapon Rules in 4th ed Dark Sun - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Weapon Rules in 4th ed Dark Sun

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
JohnLynch
Jan 12, 2010 0:38:03 In Rich Baker's blog here, he describes rules for weapon materials and whether or not they break. A summary of the post is:
"Masterwork Armour" is treated as metallic. So Chainmail would be made from leather and chitin, while finemail would be made from copper, braidmail made from steel, etc.

4th ed standard weapons (typically described as metallic in most campaigns) are now described as made from bone and obsidian without applying any actual negatives to them.

There'll be a selection of alternate weapon breaking rules that a DM can either choose to use or ignore.

Inherent bonuses were looked at.

What do people think? Have I misunderstood anything? I'm a bit unsure how Metallic Weapons will be handled under this system.

How do other people plan on handling metallic weapons and armour?

-----

I'm planning on having a low-magic campaign, so I'll be using the "inherent bonuses" rules from the DMG2. I like the idea of someone being able to hit you more easily, not because he's gotten better equipment, but because he's trained and learned how to fight better.

In addition I'll be replacing 2 magic item parcels per level with:
Divine Boons (only available for players of templar PCs)

Grandmaster Training (this will be the most common method).

Other supernatural rewards (these are essentially "divine boons" from powerful otherworldly sources other then sorcerer-kings).

As such, I won't be using the "masterwork armour" idea, although to be honest the idea of wearing heavy metallic armour in a desert seems slightly suicidal ;) Magic items will still be around, but they'll be significantly rarer. I may also use the "Item Components" rule from DMG2, page 146 on occassion as well.

I will have metallic weapons, although they'll be presented by having critical hit dice of 1d12. The better the manufacture, the more critical hit dice there'd be. Although with that said, I'm unsure how critical hit die are handled in the "inherent bonuses" and "alternate rewards" systems. As far as I can see, they're missing. Although if they are present somewhere already, I'd need to revise that plan.
#2
Duke5150
Jan 12, 2010 4:39:29 Metal is rare when looked at on a world wide scale, but there should be no problems with players getting metal weapons. Metal armor is not easy to come by but not impossible. Although its a pain to carry two suits of armor. Metal armor is useless during the day, in the desert, and attracts a lot of attention, but aside from those few things, its very handy.

I havn't had time to consider this yet, and I'v not seen the latest blogs, so I'll get back to you on this.
#3
big_goon
Jan 12, 2010 12:55:31 I believe this entirely depends on the DM. If he/she likes creating an atmosphere where everything is brittle - including your most prized possessions (such as some magic items, that two-handed sword, etc), the DM will use weapon breakage rules.

In reality (at least whenever I played), the players just started learning to carry backup weapons. In the long run, the effects became minimal - the DMs eventually got bored of the rule and gave everybody metallic weapons.

In 4e, they've looked into this problem a bit - that's the indication I got.

What I would like to see... is an option similar to the defiling available for arcane spellcasters - for those that have read the Defiler options from Rich's blog. For example, "Here's an at-will that you can use with your Martial Daily attacks. It gives you +, but there's a chance your weapon will break."

Thus, we have a group of characters that never use their weapons beyond their breaking point (clerics, paladins, non-martial classes)... and then there are Martial characters who are experts with weapons. They know how to get the most out of their weapons. Martial characters overextend their spears for additional range, twist their bard's friends before withdrawing the weapon, smash targets to bits with datchi clubs and... who the hell knows how to use a Crusher?!?! Or right... the martial classes.

But, when overusing their weapons, they sometimes break...

#4
sir_sparhawk
Jan 12, 2010 13:15:11 I'm going to wait and see what the options are that they give a DM to use as far as weapon breakage. However something I think I'll stand by is if a weapon is magical, it doesn't break whether it's bone, stone or metal. That's the way I ran my 2e campaigns but again, I'll have to wait and see what they say in the DS4e Campaign Guide about it.

Big_Goon, I like your idea about the martial At-Will Powers being similar to Defiling. The defiling At-Will can only be applied to Daily Powers, so it makes sense a Martial At-Will Power enhancing your weapons effectiveness can only be applied to a Daily Power. It's something every martial class can use, but with a cost of possible breakage. That is a very cool idea and I think fits with the flavour of DS.

I think weapon breakage is part of the flavour of DARK SUN so I will definately use it in my campaign. My final decision on how it's used will be after I get my hands on the Campaign Guide.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 JohnLynch Jan 12, 2010 0:38:03	In Rich Baker's blog here, he describes rules for weapon materials and whether or not they break. A summary of the post is: "Masterwork Armour" is treated as metallic. So Chainmail would be made from leather and chitin, while finemail would be made from copper, braidmail made from steel, etc. 4th ed standard weapons (typically described as metallic in most campaigns) are now described as made from bone and obsidian without applying any actual negatives to them. There'll be a selection of alternate weapon breaking rules that a DM can either choose to use or ignore. Inherent bonuses were looked at. What do people think? Have I misunderstood anything? I'm a bit unsure how Metallic Weapons will be handled under this system. How do other people plan on handling metallic weapons and armour? ----- I'm planning on having a low-magic campaign, so I'll be using the "inherent bonuses" rules from the DMG2. I like the idea of someone being able to hit you more easily, not because he's gotten better equipment, but because he's trained and learned how to fight better. In addition I'll be replacing 2 magic item parcels per level with: Divine Boons (only available for players of templar PCs) Grandmaster Training (this will be the most common method). Other supernatural rewards (these are essentially "divine boons" from powerful otherworldly sources other then sorcerer-kings). As such, I won't be using the "masterwork armour" idea, although to be honest the idea of wearing heavy metallic armour in a desert seems slightly suicidal ;) Magic items will still be around, but they'll be significantly rarer. I may also use the "Item Components" rule from DMG2, page 146 on occassion as well. I will have metallic weapons, although they'll be presented by having critical hit dice of 1d12. The better the manufacture, the more critical hit dice there'd be. Although with that said, I'm unsure how critical hit die are handled in the "inherent bonuses" and "alternate rewards" systems. As far as I can see, they're missing. Although if they are present somewhere already, I'd need to revise that plan.
#2 Duke5150 Jan 12, 2010 4:39:29	Metal is rare when looked at on a world wide scale, but there should be no problems with players getting metal weapons. Metal armor is not easy to come by but not impossible. Although its a pain to carry two suits of armor. Metal armor is useless during the day, in the desert, and attracts a lot of attention, but aside from those few things, its very handy. I havn't had time to consider this yet, and I'v not seen the latest blogs, so I'll get back to you on this.
#3 big_goon Jan 12, 2010 12:55:31	I believe this entirely depends on the DM. If he/she likes creating an atmosphere where everything is brittle - including your most prized possessions (such as some magic items, that two-handed sword, etc), the DM will use weapon breakage rules. In reality (at least whenever I played), the players just started learning to carry backup weapons. In the long run, the effects became minimal - the DMs eventually got bored of the rule and gave everybody metallic weapons. In 4e, they've looked into this problem a bit - that's the indication I got. What I would like to see... is an option similar to the defiling available for arcane spellcasters - for those that have read the Defiler options from Rich's blog. For example, "Here's an at-will that you can use with your Martial Daily attacks. It gives you +, but there's a chance your weapon will break." Thus, we have a group of characters that never use their weapons beyond their breaking point (clerics, paladins, non-martial classes)... and then there are Martial characters who are experts with weapons. They know how to get the most out of their weapons. Martial characters overextend their spears for additional range, twist their bard's friends before withdrawing the weapon, smash targets to bits with datchi clubs and... who the hell knows how to use a Crusher?!?! Or right... the martial classes. But, when overusing their weapons, they sometimes break...
#4 sir_sparhawk Jan 12, 2010 13:15:11	I'm going to wait and see what the options are that they give a DM to use as far as weapon breakage. However something I think I'll stand by is if a weapon is magical, it doesn't break whether it's bone, stone or metal. That's the way I ran my 2e campaigns but again, I'll have to wait and see what they say in the DS4e Campaign Guide about it. Big_Goon, I like your idea about the martial At-Will Powers being similar to Defiling. The defiling At-Will can only be applied to Daily Powers, so it makes sense a Martial At-Will Power enhancing your weapons effectiveness can only be applied to a Daily Power. It's something every martial class can use, but with a cost of possible breakage. That is a very cool idea and I think fits with the flavour of DS. I think weapon breakage is part of the flavour of DARK SUN so I will definately use it in my campaign. My final decision on how it's used will be after I get my hands on the Campaign Guide.