do we have any confirmed races for the dark sun world? i know we have to wait til august or some time around then but i'm just wondering if they've thrown out any little tid bits to satiate the populous
i know this must have been asked already but i did a search and came up with all sorts of stuff. no luck finding what i'm looking for though so i apologize.
do we have any confirmed races for the dark sun world? i know we have to wait til august or some time around then but i'm just wondering if they've thrown out any little tid bits to satiate the populous
Like how Forgotten Realms and Eberron were treated, Dark Sun will mostly be comprised of a list of standard races from D&D4E with different flavor text (including making Half-Giants be re-flavored versions of Goliaths). However Muls and Thri-Kreen will be complete write-ups.
Will anybody use FR's elemental-based PC race as is in DS, or perhaps rename them for one of DS' more obscure elemental-based races? Sorry, I can't recall either the FR or DS names for those races.
I will be using the Genasi. I dan't remember the DS equivalent's name either off-hand (been too long), but I think they are a good fit for an obscure DS race.
It's up to the individual DM if he wants to include Gnomes, Devas, and so on. I do remember the elemental humanoids in DS, Ruvkova or something?
Deva could be something like gray-folk. Tieflings could be linked to the rejected students of rajaat during the time of magic. Instead of being cursed by an infernal pact, they could be cursed by rajaat. Maybe as a side effect. Eladrin could be as easy as being the elves who refused to abandon the old ways, where as the elves became nomadic, the eladrin remained together and still have a monarch like society, awaiting the day for the new elven king.
When it comes to shardmind, they fit in with an old idea I had long ago for darksun. A living psionic crystal (Mountain heart). Long story short, the shardmind could be a natural side effect of psionics, devoted to both the restoration of athas and the purity of psionics.
Warforged could be directly linked to shardminds, as their creatorsto combat the champions legions during the cleansing wars. Changelings could be a rebirth race. Genasi could be the natural evolution of mortals exposed to centuries of elemental influence.
No idea on how to handle drow. Probably an obvious way to deal with them, making them more like the eberron drow would be a good start. (since that's basically what darksun drow would be)
Githzerai are another race I'm not to sure of. I need to read my 2e githyanki adventure. As for the half orc and gnomes. They could be survivors of the cleansing wars assuming 4e doesn't change who the sorcererkings hunted.
Which leads the question, will we get new sorcerer kings who hunted the new races, but failed. Maybe these sorcerer kings were killed by the races they hunted. That would be a first. The sorcerer king who hunted the minotaurs got killed by minotaurs, for instance.
Maybe 4e DS will change the sorcerer kings to hunters of non-pc races. Or maybe, the SKs didn't finish any of the races they were charged with, they only believe they did.
I don't think any races past the PHB1 will be getting any writeups for Dark Sun as I understand. Humans, elves, half-elves, halflings, dwarves, dragonborn, eladrin, tieflings plus muls and thri-kreen are all I expect to hear about.
Goliaths are in the phb2. Plus a lot of newer fans will want to play non-standard races in darksun and by not providing at least some suggestions on how a race could fit into the setting, it could discourage a lot of new customers from playing darksun. (at least those that enjoy the newer races)
I'm curious what lead you to believe the phb2 and 3 will be excluded from darksun?
That said, you could use just about anything with a quick reskin as one of the New Races caused by the Pristine Tower. Want a mutant halfling with teleport abilities? Use a gnome. Want a giant elf with thick skin and knobs of bone on his skull? Minotaur.
Didn't one of the earlier podcasts or write-ups say that the designers planned on leaving out all references to stuff in the setting? No outright prohibitions, but (at most) a sidebar explaining why Athas doesn't have it's own gnomes, sprites, and other races decimated in the Cleansing Wars.
Where was it mentioned about minotaurs? No sorcerer king hunted them and I don't remember reading anything on them. (though it has been years since I read all the 2e loot) I always assumed they just didn't exist in the setting, like centaurs.
As for revisions and rewrites on the history, I wouldn't put it passed wotc. We do not know what role the feywild and shadowfell play in 4e darksun, or if the cleansing war spilled into those planes. So it would be one guess that races could have fled to those planes and maybe survivors exist there. Or it could be as simple as the champions did not explore the entire planet, but only a portion of it.
It is more likely that races will take on the same approach as dragonmarks in 4e eberron. Any player character can have any mark, but encountering a minotaur npc with a dragonmark would be left to the DM. But by default, no minotaur npcs have dragonmarks. So for darksun, there would probably not be any gnome npcs walking around town, (mostly left to the DM's decision) But as a player character, gnomes, half orcs and any other race is perfectly fine as a playable race.
Where was it mentioned about minotaurs? No sorcerer king hunted them and I don't remember reading anything on them. (though it has been years since I read all the 2e loot) I always assumed they just didn't exist in the setting, like centaurs.
Good call, I'd misremembered. They were just omitted from the monster lists I suppose.
Personally, I'll be pretty restrictive in my games and skew toward the original printing of the setting, though I'd allow any creative idea and reskin.
Yes, but if you allow your player to run a gnome, then you can allow that info to get back to Nibenay, who then might seek to obliterate that little pest, since he is, after all, the gnome bane.
Besides, gnomes were removed from 2e ds for a very good reason. They completely sucked and just took up space and ink. But the 4e gnome is far superior to the 2e version. I could easily see brutal assassin gnomes much like the Zilargo (the trust) gnomes in eberron. Although, far more brutal.
That said, I've floated the idea of having an adventure, under Nibenay, that involves spirit gnomes and the players having to destroy the focus or relic that binds them to the world. And being rewarded by Nibenay or his templars for doing so, of course.
I don't think any races past the PHB1 will be getting any writeups for Dark Sun as I understand. Humans, elves, half-elves, halflings, dwarves, dragonborn, eladrin, tieflings plus muls and thri-kreen are all I expect to hear about.
Goliaths are in the phb2. Plus a lot of newer fans will want to play non-standard races in darksun and by not providing at least some suggestions on how a race could fit into the setting, it could discourage a lot of new customers from playing darksun. (at least those that enjoy the newer races)
I'm curious what lead you to believe the phb2 and 3 will be excluded from darksun?
And, of course, goliaths.
On the D&D experience podcast, at about 35:58:
A Question Regarding how much of existing races would be described in terms of the dark sun setting...
Rich Baker: We paid more attention to the, uh, races that appeared in the Player's Handbook 1, right, because certainly if you are a new 4e player, I think you have an expectation of; 'well I like Eladrins. What's my Eladrin look like in Athas?' That's someplace where we have to, kind of, do something... something new. Ditto Tieflings and Dragonborn. Right? We can't just say, 'Aren't no Dragonborn here." Yeah, not when it's a Player's Handbook Race. There's too many people out there, who are new to 4e, yeah, who are going to expect to find that.
Also at 25:16 Rich Baker said that gnomes wouldn't be included in Athas by omission, rather than by specific forbiddance.
I will have to eat my words a little bit, but let me rephrase and say that I don't think many races will appear from the PHBs 2 and 3. Goliaths are obviously in, and I guess I could see Minotaurs as half-giants descended from Beasthead Giants, but I think given all the races in the PHB, and the new races, and goliaths, that doesn't leave very much space for talking about Deva and Warforged and the like.
I don't care what new races they say are available for 4e. This is my campaign, and I'm sticking with the races that were allowed from the first box set back in 1991. I'm not even using Dray so there
Wrongbadfun!
Wrongbadfun!
*crosses self*
*flees*
As for half-giants: I got the distinct impression that Rich wasn't keen on reintroducing this race into 4E due to the fact that they had to be severely cut down and 'gimped' to make them a balanced race. Seems like he thought they were broken from the get-go and the developers seem to have prohibited him from retaining their large size category, which I suppose lead to them becoming a feeble reskinning of goliaths.
Personally, to retain their old-school flavour and identity I would rather make them a non-playable race and keep their traditional monstrous size, tremendous strength and dull wits. No big loss considering that muls will fill in the tanked-out, martial-type roles quite nicely. It'd be a balancing nightmare to keep them the way they were in 2E.
A great way to keep Dark Sun the way you have always envisaged it is also quite simple: omit races or changes you don't like. I certainly will if things steer to far from the Athas I know and love. However, if they fit right in I'll be sure to keep them. That's the beauty of pencil and paper RPGs: customisation.
:D
PS - No gnomes.
Anyway, I think I will be most disappointed in the new racial writeups if they fail to turn these concepts on their heads. If they can make Athasian Eladrin interesting and new, I think I could live with it. If it's like "okay... it's eladrin. In athas. *Yawn* Then I don't see the point in allowing them at all.
Interesting thing... Eladrin have a racial teleport. So we are talking about a race that essentially cannot be enslaved... Unless they come up with some method of inhibiting an Eladrin's racial power.
Anyway, I think I will be most disappointed in the new racial writeups if they fail to turn these concepts on their heads. If they can make Athasian Eladrin interesting and new, I think I could live with it. If it's like "okay... it's eladrin. In athas. *Yawn* Then I don't see the point in allowing them at all.
I believe someone from WotC said that the Dark Sun Feywild would be in pretty bad shape. It is possible that the Eladrin's racial power doesn't quite work right in Athas...
Interesting thing... Eladrin have a racial teleport. So we are talking about a race that essentially cannot be enslaved... Unless they come up with some method of inhibiting an Eladrin's racial power.
Good point.
As a slaver, I'd want to kill of these bastards on sight. Actually, because I'm so wealthy and this race is such a pain in the rear, my company and several other slaver-merchant houses have banded together on a genocide mission to eliminate this race. We've devoted large quantities of cash and hired many mercenaries to help out with this.
Would you like to help too? The pay is good.
Of course, if you are a greedy magician or psionicst and develop a way to eliminate their nasty tendancy to teleport away, you'd become a very wealth man/woman.
I got the impression, however, that the world of Dark Sun was very xenophobic. PCs that fall outside of the conventional races would have a hard time getting around the city-states unless they kept a really low profile. It would, honestly, be difficult in most campaigns which usually require characters to purchase equipment and supplies in civilized areas.
The convential races also have difficulties, but since they are more populous, they are not commonly singled out as much.
So, if I were a DM, I'd strongly recommend players think twice about playing races that would have difficulty not being enslaved or killed outright whenever they approached a city-state.
I'd like to point out that just about any race: including Gnomes, Drow, Shardminds, Eladrin, Minotaurs, Shadar'kai, Half-Orcs etc... could find a place in just about any Dark Sun setting. Some of these guys could even have some interesting storylines - including the Gnomes.
I got the impression, however, that the world of Dark Sun was very xenophobic. PCs that fall outside of the conventional races would have a hard time getting around the city-states unless they kept a really low profile. It would, honestly, be difficult in most campaigns which usually require characters to purchase equipment and supplies in civilized areas.
The convential races also have difficulties, but since they are more populous, they are not commonly singled out as much.
So, if I were a DM, I'd strongly recommend players think twice about playing races that would have difficulty not being enslaved or killed outright whenever they approached a city-state.
I'd say that on average, most people in Dark Sun aren't very xenophobic at all. In fact, several races are quite common in most city-states. The issue with xenophobia stems more from the Cleansing Wars, and the Sorcerer-Kings may still have some of the xenophobic tendencies as a result. But most people are quite accepting of other races from what I've seen. Even bizarre races (which are easily explained away as a Pristine Tower-created New Race if necessary).
Your daugther is beautiful
Congratulations on such a precious gift from God.Nibenay was always my fave sorcerer-king; AKA Gallard the 6th Champion of Rajaat, he killed all gnomes during the Green Age. I had the party visit the Naggaramakan whereupon they happened to see many magically petrified gnomes decorating his various palatial gardens. Where they belong.
The Pristine Tower is a really handy device that allows DMs to add any 'non-canon' race to their game. Except gnomes.
Nibenay was always my fave sorcerer-king; AKA Gallard the 6th Champion of Rajaat, he killed all gnomes during the Green Age. I had the party visit the Naggaramakan whereupon they happened to see many magically petrified gnomes decorating his various palatial gardens. Where they belong.
'Twas a sad day for tinkercraft when Gallard, casting an empowered enlarge spell, weilding that maul +10 vs gnomes, squished the last gnome inventor with a resounding "splat".
The issue with xenophobia stems more from the Cleansing Wars, and the Sorcerer-Kings may still have some of the xenophobic tendencies as a result.
Or it may not, or at least not with every SK, as Andropinis elected a few elves to be patricians, which goes to show even he can appreciate the value of a mind.
The issue with xenophobia stems more from the Cleansing Wars, and the Sorcerer-Kings may still have some of the xenophobic tendencies as a result.
Or it may not, or at least not with every SK, as Andropinis elected a few elves to be patricians, which goes to show even he can appreciate the value of a mind.
What do you expect? He was democratically elected, after all.
Interesting thing... Eladrin have a racial teleport. So we are talking about a race that essentially cannot be enslaved... Unless they come up with some method of inhibiting an Eladrin's racial power.
Anyway, I think I will be most disappointed in the new racial writeups if they fail to turn these concepts on their heads. If they can make Athasian Eladrin interesting and new, I think I could live with it. If it's like "okay... it's eladrin. In athas. *Yawn* Then I don't see the point in allowing them at all.
I believe someone from WotC said that the Dark Sun Feywild would be in pretty bad shape. It is possible that the Eladrin's racial power doesn't quite work right in Athas...
I could see the athasian feywild as being a place of such hostility and danger that feystepping into that land could lead to instant death. (if you're lucky) I can't wait to see what they do with the feywild of athas. I can imagine the feywild as something an avangion would dream of (green age) but then quickly becomes a living nightmare as the plantlife eats anything it can.
I'd also like some teasers on what the athasian shadowfell will be like, assuming it's included. Which I hope it is.
I'd like to point out that just about any race: including Gnomes, Drow, Shardminds, Eladrin, Minotaurs, Shadar'kai, Half-Orcs etc... could find a place in just about any Dark Sun setting. Some of these guys could even have some interesting storylines - including the Gnomes.
I got the impression, however, that the world of Dark Sun was very xenophobic. PCs that fall outside of the conventional races would have a hard time getting around the city-states unless they kept a really low profile. It would, honestly, be difficult in most campaigns which usually require characters to purchase equipment and supplies in civilized areas.
The convential races also have difficulties, but since they are more populous, they are not commonly singled out as much.
So, if I were a DM, I'd strongly recommend players think twice about playing races that would have difficulty not being enslaved or killed outright whenever they approached a city-state.
Well, not every member of every race looks alike. Athas has a way of mutating life forms, one way or another. So just playing a non standard race might not be enough. If a gnome is walking around the city, who's to say it's not a different kind of halfling? Who would know beyond the sorcerer kings and maybe a handful of sages? That's one of the things about many places. Not everything looks the way it should, which makes it easier to move around. Sort of like a starwars cantina.
But I agree with you on the first part. Many post 2e races could be included in interesting ways. I'm a fan of the original canon, even though I won't allow myself to become a slave to it. But with all the new options available in this edition, I think it would be a shame to limit the newest 4e setting to outdated restrictions. Especially considering the fact that wotc is changing plenty already.
For instance, turning classes into themes, changing defiling and reskinning halfgiants and dray while also semi-nerfing thrikreen is perfectly acceptable, but including gnomes is BAD! (lol) I'm not saying I'm completely against those things, I'm just saying that 4e darksun is not going to hold true to 2e for valid reasons. So instead of fighting against it as much as possible, we should accept it and work with the new material.
I bet if the same amount of energy goes into making something fit, rather than fighting to exclude it, the end result would be awesome. The race I had the most trouble accepting in darksun was the drow, but then I looked at the eberron drow and I'm not as against it anymore. (I view eberron as what darksun would have been like with no rajaat. Ignoring eberrons history, of course.)
I'd like to point out that just about any race: including Gnomes, Drow, Shardminds, Eladrin, Minotaurs, Shadar'kai, Half-Orcs etc... could find a place in just about any Dark Sun setting. Some of these guys could even have some interesting storylines - including the Gnomes.
I got the impression, however, that the world of Dark Sun was very xenophobic. PCs that fall outside of the conventional races would have a hard time getting around the city-states unless they kept a really low profile. It would, honestly, be difficult in most campaigns which usually require characters to purchase equipment and supplies in civilized areas.
The convential races also have difficulties, but since they are more populous, they are not commonly singled out as much.
So, if I were a DM, I'd strongly recommend players think twice about playing races that would have difficulty not being enslaved or killed outright whenever they approached a city-state.
I'd say that on average, most people in Dark Sun aren't very xenophobic at all. In fact, several races are quite common in most city-states. The issue with xenophobia stems more from the Cleansing Wars, and the Sorcerer-Kings may still have some of the xenophobic tendencies as a result. But most people are quite accepting of other races from what I've seen. Even bizarre races (which are easily explained away as a Pristine Tower-created New Race if necessary).
Well, in this new darksun, there simply could have been more rebirth races. We also have Rajaat's pyramids and lifeshaped creations that could be expanded upon. We also have races we no nothing about that could exist within the thrikreen empire region. New races could come from the last sea or beyond the deadlands (pre-destruction). There are plenty of ways to include the newer races beyond simply calling them members of new race, from the pristine tower. (which is a perfectly fine way of doing it (IMO). The pristine tower is a blessing. One of the all time best plot devices)
The Pristine Tower is a really handy device that allows DMs to add any 'non-canon' race to their game. Except gnomes.
Nibenay was always my fave sorcerer-king; AKA Gallard the 6th Champion of Rajaat, he killed all gnomes during the Green Age. I had the party visit the Naggaramakan whereupon they happened to see many magically petrified gnomes decorating his various palatial gardens. Where they belong.
'Twas a sad day for tinkercraft when Gallard, casting an empowered enlarge spell, weilding that maul +10 vs gnomes, squished the last gnome inventor with a resounding "splat".
Is there any material that discusses the inventors of tinkercraft? I forget what's in the revised books. Are we sure they were tinkergnomes? I'm also curious to see if the SKs remain true to whom they hunted in the war and how they will have changed. 4e gnomes are far more tricky and cunning now, with the ability to fade away. Which would mean nibenay would have to know how to hunt them. (constant truthsight? See invisability?) Which could end up making nibenay an even more dangerous SK than he already is, or at least add a bit more depth to him. He is, after all, the shadow king. (I think it's funny he can wipe out an entire race, but fails to defeat those two brothers in double dragon.)
Is there any material that discusses the inventors of tinkercraft? I forget what's in the revised books. Are we sure they were tinkergnomes? I'm also curious to see if the SKs remain true to whom they hunted in the war and how they will have changed. 4e gnomes are far more tricky and cunning now, with the ability to fade away. Which would mean nibenay would have to know how to hunt them. (constant truthsight? See invisability?) Which could end up making nibenay an even more dangerous SK than he already is, or at least add a bit more depth to him. He is, after all, the shadow king. (I think it's funny he can wipe out an entire race, but fails to defeat those two brothers in double dragon.)
Actually, tinkercraft has nothing (directly) to do Gnomes. I don't have a huge background in psionics, but as far as I understand it, tinkercraft is essentially the understanding of ancient technology. Since a lot of what we call "science" is similar to what Athasians call "psionics", using ancient technology and using psionics is a similar concept and called tinkercraft.
Now, I'm just making huge leaps in my logic, but I'd assume that if Gnomes were still alive, they'd have a field day exploring lost ruins for ancient tinkercraft, dissecting their secrets, and becoming experts in the field of tinkercraft. So, tinkergnomes doesn't seem like such a far-fetched idea - or at least that would be my opinion.
Either way, it doesn't matter, Gnomes are dead.
I'd say that on average, most people in Dark Sun aren't very xenophobic at all. In fact, several races are quite common in most city-states. The issue with xenophobia stems more from the Cleansing Wars, and the Sorcerer-Kings may still have some of the xenophobic tendencies as a result. But most people are quite accepting of other races from what I've seen. Even bizarre races (which are easily explained away as a Pristine Tower-created New Race if necessary).
Here are some descriptive words about races and how other races perceive them in my campaign (including some other 4E races that I might use):
- Humans: Ambitious. Two-Faced. Ethnocentric. Prodigality.
- Halflings: Savage. Cannabal. Otherworldly. Vainglorious. Back-stabbing.
- Half-Elves: Trash. Anti-social. Envious.
- Elves: Profiteer. Avaricious. Distrustful.
- Eladrin: Unaccepting. Slippery. Scared.
- Muls: Rash. Expendable. Wrathful.
- Dwarves: Greedy. Hermits. Stubborn. Acedia.
- Half-Giants: Dumb. Gullible. Gluttonous. Bipolar.
- Thri-Kreen: Inhuman. Human-eaters. Easily offended.
- Dragonborn: Pessimistic. Forlorn. Angry.
- Githzerai: Lawful. Prideful. Unscrupulous.
I might have gone a little over the top in some cases, but if you're a PC of one of these races, you might have to overcome some of these common stereotypes before dealing with strangers. Strangers usually take "guilty until proven innocent" approach when dealing with others - a common trait among xenophobes?
This is just for the common folk. I believe that the Sorcerer-Kings are above quibblings of the common folk, and are probably less xenophobic nowadays than during past ages: like during the Cleansing Wars. Andropinis, for example, leads a quasy-democratic society bent on uptaining wealth and gold. Reaching the ranks of a Patrician requires enough wealth to curruptly payoff voters (or in rare cases, charisma), a common quality amongst elves. Andropinis himself is probably more concerned with obtaining personal wealth and glory than obsessing over his vain hatred of Elves - thus Patrician elves.
Did I go too far here...?
All such technologies are things lost from the Green Age. Couple with the other things we know - psionic-powered travel platforms moving inside immense subterranean highways, guardian obsidian orbs that contain indentured minds, psionic-powered desalinisation plants - the Green Age can be said to have been a bright place to live in.
The only mention of tinkercraft on Athas is unrelated to tinker gnomes. It comes from the novel A Darkness Before the Dawn (the opening pages of which are found as a short story in the Freedom adventure), and refers - quite simply - to a more industrialized form of technology; portable mirrored reflectors to cook food, hand-powered water pumps used to bring water from deep wells, central heating of building, many-storied buildings like the Europeans managed to do hundreds of years before the modern era, a retractable spear, and (since this is fantasy) crystals that can store a dead soul and create for it an imaginary world, plus the metal support frame that allows many such crystals to commune with each other.
All such technologies are things lost from the Green Age. Couple with the other things we know - psionic-powered travel platforms moving inside immense subterranean highways, guardian obsidian orbs that contain indentured minds, psionic-powered desalinisation plants - the Green Age can be said to have been a bright place to live in.
Ok, then I'v not missed anything. That's a good book. I especially like how it claims that some city state histories claim it was tinkercraft that brought about the destruction of the tablelands, and not defiling magic. More sorcerer king propaganda.
I assume the Eladrin telaport is a quick feywild jump. The power prolly just works slightly different in Athas. Maybe causing an attack to be rerolled like a halfling.
I'd consider it more likely that you have to choose Elves *or* Eldarin. Athas only ever had one race of Elves.
I assume the Eladrin telaport is a quick feywild jump. The power prolly just works slightly different in Athas. Maybe causing an attack to be rerolled like a halfling.
I'd consider it more likely that you have to choose Elves *or* Eldarin. Athas only ever had one race of Elves.
Except for the ones at the Last Sea being really different than the typical DS elves, to the point that they would be a second, completely separate species... like how Eladrin and Elves are.
Except for the ones at the Last Sea being really different than the typical DS elves, to the point that they would be a second, completely separate species... like how Eladrin and Elves are.
They were?
*shrug*
Last Sea never felt right in DS anyway. Too much water, too much plant life, and why hadn't the S-Ks just taken over and slaughtered everything?
I'd consider it more likely that you have to choose Elves *or* Eldarin. Athas only ever had one race of Elves.
When has WotC ever used that as the reason not to include something? I'm open to change if that change improves the game.
Except for the ones at the Last Sea being really different than the typical DS elves, to the point that they would be a second, completely separate species... like how Eladrin and Elves are.
They were?
*shrug*
Last Sea never felt right in DS anyway. Too much water, too much plant life, and why hadn't the S-Ks just taken over and slaughtered everything?
A simple explanation would be, the mind lords. Sorcerer kings can't bring armies to the last sea. What Keltis did, he did in a time long gone. The world is much harsher now. Any army that marches from the tablelands to the last sea will probably end up decimated by the time it reaches the thunder mountains or the burning plains. Then attempting to cross either one of those will result in further destruction of the army, ending in a confrontation with the mindlords and their force of "fresh and well rested/well fed/ well watered soldiers.
A battle with the mindlords, army to army, could very well require the joined forces of all the city states and it could very well wipe out a huge population of the tablelands, since a good 60%+ of the tableland forces would never survive.
The sorcerer kings would have to go alone and a single sorcerer king wouldn't stand a chance against the three mindlords, even in their current state. So then all the Sks would have to join forces. But then what's stopping any of the sorcerer kings from allying with the mindlords to remove an age old enemy?
Assuming the sorcerer kings didn't lose and the mindlords were obliterated, the magic required to accomplish this could very well destroy the last sea completely. -And if that didn't do it, the following battle between the sorcerer kings for the right to rule the last sea probably would.
That's also assuming the sorcerer kings even care. They already have their city states, their worshippers and their power. They do not suffer like their people do. They're dragons. Besides, I don't think they would want to leave their cities unprotected for the years it would take to conquer the last sea.
Oh, and if borys was alive, he wouldn't put up with it. The city-states have a quota to meet every year and the sorcerer kings cannot ignore that for personal reasons. The only way Borys would go along with a campaign against the last sea is if the quotas could not be met by any SK. Then an invasion of the ringing mountains, villages and forts (merchant houses) would happen even before considering that journey. [edit] A last resort measure would be borys and the SKs uniting against a single sorcerer king, killing that SK and using his/her city's population to meet the quota.
Even then I doubt Borys would go for it. An invasion of the last sea by the sorcerer kings is about as likely as an avangion ruling the deadlands.
They were?
*shrug*
Last Sea never felt right in DS anyway. Too much water, too much plant life, and why hadn't the S-Ks just taken over and slaughtered everything?
It was supposed to be really, really different. It provides a fun twist to a campaign, just after the characters get used to how to play in the Tablelands, and think they have Athas figured out, thrust them into the Last Sea... and turn their world on its' proverbial ear.
You needn't worry about there being no S-K's. The Mind Lords are potentially far more dangerous to the characters. At least the S-K's typically (ignoring Daskinor) leave you well enough alone unless you become a problem for that S-K' personally. The Mind Lords... Well.... they don't really have any reason to leave you alone. They like to mess with you. Over and over and over. Just for the fun of it (unlike Daskinor who really doesn't necessarily have any sane control over what he's been doing).
I actually enjoy that the Last Sea doesn't "feel" like Dark Sun. It feels weird to the setting of Athas, which when it comes to Athas, weird becomes the norm, when you think about the various diverse regions (The Tablelands, the Hinterlands, the Last Sea, the Jagged Cliffs, the Deadlands, and the Kreen Empire, just to name a few, each is really... different, in many ways).
There is some great unofficial 3E material released through the internet all about this region, however, even including undead gnomes!
I really hope they release sourcebooks, or at least adventure modules for the Deadlands. I remember hearing a rumour many years ago pertaining to that area being the last boxed set TSR was working on before they went under.
There is some great unofficial 3E material released through the internet all about this region, however, even including undead gnomes!
Actually, the Deadlands was (is?) a region that Athas.org was (is?) making headway with, using the material that was never completed by TSR. Much like the whole Dregoth Ascending series of adventures was done.
I really hope they release sourcebooks, or at least adventure modules for the Deadlands. I remember hearing a rumour many years ago pertaining to that area being the last boxed set TSR was working on before they went under.
There is some great unofficial 3E material released through the internet all about this region, however, even including undead gnomes!
Actually, the Deadlands was (is?) a region that Athas.org was (is?) making headway with, using the material that was never completed by TSR. Much like the whole Dregoth Ascending series of adventures was done.
So athas.org is still working on stuff? I always wanted to see what they could do with the deadlands material.
So athas.org is still working on stuff? I always wanted to see what they could do with the deadlands material.
I dunno. I'm a little concerned with their push to continue their 3.x port of DS. Makes me wonder if they'll support 4e DS when it gets released.
Bah-doom-doom-ching!
Lol, anyone feels like converting oceans of 2e and 3.5e stat blocks into 4e, be my guest!
Got a website that is willing to host fan conversions?
Lol, anyone feels like converting oceans of 2e and 3.5e stat blocks into 4e, be my guest!
Got a website that is willing to host fan conversions?
Sure, right here. Although I'm waiting to see what makes it into the Creature Catalog first before converting much.
Lol, anyone feels like converting oceans of 2e and 3.5e stat blocks into 4e, be my guest!
Got a website that is willing to host fan conversions?
Sure, right here. Although I'm waiting to see what makes it into the Creature Catalog first before converting much.
Sweet, thanks dude!
Questions: Looking at the Athasian Wraith, how do you put a monster builder stat block into the HTML thing? I can use my buddies MB to build monsters and I'd like to add my monsters with the power symbols.
I downloaded the HTML help doc and will read it when I have time. But if there is a quick answer on how to insert MB statblocks, I'd love to read it. Thanks!
PS: Not many monsters are up yet, I would have guessed a ton of people would have contributed monsters. If I can figure out how to insert MB statblocks, I'll contribute monsters from darksun, dragonlance and probably mystara, ravenloft and planescape. Toss in some universal monsters too. {edit] Doh, can't believe I forgot eberron!
I'v already got a good 50+ monsters done in MB. So I could add quite a bit when I figure out how. (including thrikree!)
I just save the image of the stat block from the MB and put it up on photobucket and link it.
Hmm, I need to try that. Is there a specific program that allows you to do it? Screen shot of your desktop?
Hmm, I need to try that. Is there a specific program that allows you to do it? Screen shot of your desktop?
If you right click on the creature in the MB it will give you various options that you can do such as "Copy as rich text" or "Copy as image". I just copy as image into Paint (although I think any image program will do), trim it to the size I want, and save it. Then just go to Photobucket and load up the picture. Then I create the page for the monster and link the image.
Help?
I'm sorry but it is REALLY hard to imagine feeble, aesthete Eladrin surving Athas' planetary decline, but savage Half-Orcs NOT surviving it. Really now: What sense does that make?
The Champion assigned to exterminate orcs and their half-breeds did a better job than the one who was assigned to exterminate the elves?
Then again, the only ones who seem to have done well at all were both troll burners, pixie blight, the ork killer, and he who hunted wemics (sorry, can't remember their titles).
I'm sorry but it is REALLY hard to imagine feeble, aesthete Eladrin surving Athas' planetary decline, but savage Half-Orcs NOT surviving it. Really now: What sense does that make?
The Champion assigned to exterminate orcs and their half-breeds did a better job than the one who was assigned to exterminate the elves?
Then again, the only ones who seem to have done well at all were both troll burners, pixie blight, the ork killer, and he who hunted wemics (sorry, can't remember their titles).
you forgot the gnomes and ogres.
you forgot the gnomes and ogres.
D'oh. This is what I get for the LGS having sold out of both versions of Dark Sun before I could actually get a copy of my own to refer back to. I'd thought the gnomes fell under Pixie Blight's domain, and forgot the ogres entirely.
I never saw a parallel with DS' halflings, besides the name.
Remember that DS' halflings do not have big, hairy feet, or are merry, or live inside hills. They look like mini adults with angelic children's faces.
Remember that DS' halflings do not have big, hairy feet, or are merry, or live inside hills. They look like mini adults with angelic children's faces.
Oh and cannibalism. Do not forget the cannibalism.
I never read Tolkien or Dragonlance, so had no opinion on halflings, gnomes, tinker gnomes.
Forgive this little off-topic offering, but I implore to you at least read Tolkien.
My real interest in life is SF.
Forgive this little off-topic offering, but I implore to you at least read Tolkien.
Tried to, three times. I've never read anything so mind-numbingly boring and I read the original Three Musketeers. Maybe it is because I cut my sword & sorcery teeth on Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock and Fritz Lieber, but other than The Hobbit I've never been able to finish anything else by Tolkien. Those authors and Edger Rice Burroughs are some of my early influences and probably why I enjoy Dark Sun as a setting so much. Not terribly surprising considering they are considered influential in its creation.
I want to read Dante's The Divine Comedy a lot more than Tolkien, and will be a far better read. I've bought an Easton Press copy with the unfinished William Blake water colors (Blake died during the commission of the work)...but it's currently at a friend's house in the US!
Unfortunately I cannot unload myself from all those books, as there seems to be a saturation for them on the web. One day it will have to go in the blue bin.
And btw I'm an SF fan. As in novels. As in novels that aren't about Star Wars, Starcraft, Warhammer 40,000, or any other movie or tv tie-in imaginable. Sci-fi, on the other end - like Serenity or Stargate Universe - is just icing on the cake; it doesn't nourish but entertains.
I just finished listening to Stargate Universe and had fun...yet later in bed I will finish what I really like: reading Ian McDonald's Evolution's Shore.
I want to read Dante's The Divine Comedy a lot more than Tolkien, and will be a far better read. I've bought an Easton Press copy with the unfinished William Blake water colors (Blake died during the commission of the work)...but it's currently at a friend's house in the US!
Let me know when you want that to change...
I have no interest in fantasy. My interest lied in Dark Sun, and from it spilled over the current generic 4e D&D setting, but never got to other settings than Dark Sun (I did read a few other books, Planescape, Eberron, but never played). That's it. I have no interest in the 495,347..348 fantasy novels out there. 349.
My real interest in life is SF.
*nods* Fair enough.
Forgive this little off-topic offering, but I implore to you at least read Tolkien.
Tried to, three times. I've never read anything so mind-numbingly boring and I read the original Three Musketeers.
Really? Wow. Well, to each his own I guess. Tolkien's Hobbit and LotR novels blew me away; the slow pacing doesn't bother me at all. I will admit I've tried reading The Silmarillion three times and couldn't finish it.
If you're a Sci-fi fan and play D&D, you should really give planescape a try. An adventure in 4e sigil or one in the 2e setting. It's really a good setting. I loved it.
I strongly agree. Planescape is, hands-down. my all-time favorite D&D setting.
I want to read Dante's The Divine Comedy a lot more than Tolkien, and will be a far better read. I've bought an Easton Press copy with the unfinished William Blake water colors (Blake died during the commission of the work)...but it's currently at a friend's house in the US!
As someone who has read the Comedy in the original version, if you're expecting something even remotely close to narrative work or fantasy, prepare to be disappointed.
The Comedy is a political chronicle (and manifesto); it's extremely important from a linguistic point of view, it's a fascinating text when read with historical references at hand, but its narrative value is nonexistant. It's literally a dude walking from A to B and fainting every now and then; every now and then, Dante will meet a character from his historical background (up to his contemporaries), and depending on which side they stood, they would be bathed in glory in Paradise or Tortured in Hell.
It's probably gonna be the best thing you'll ever read and at the same time the most ludicrous piece of work you'll lay your eyes on, because it's literally a XVth century dude writing about how people he doesn't like are burning in hell while they were still alive.
Have fun!
Tried to, three times. I've never read anything so mind-numbingly boring and I read the original Three Musketeers.
Really? Wow. Well, to each his own I guess. Tolkien's Hobbit and LotR novels blew me away; the slow pacing doesn't bother me at all. I will admit I've tried reading The Silmarillion three times and couldn't finish it.
To each his own is right! Just remember Tom Bombadil: "Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!/ Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!". My mother started reading the Fellowship of the Ring, and loved the book up until they left Tom. She loved the singing and dancing and rhymes and how the Hobbits followed along, but then she grew bored when the adventure started. She put the book down and never continued. Sigh. To each her own.
@ Dellkane: I intend to read it for the poetry, not with any hope of getting a story out of it! Later on, if I liked the experience, I'll buy a reference book to figure out what I've read besides the poetry.
I'm actually planning on running an Eberron/Dark Sun campaign this summer. The players chasing around some people trying to use a damaged "Eldritch Machine" to travel to the future to collect powerful future magics (thinking that magic will continue to grow in power much like industry) and intelligence to give their particular group an advantage in the upcoming war. The villians end up using the incomplete device as a weapon as a last ditch effort to stop the players and it ends up shattering the PC's time line. The players begin to sporadically shift into the future and back, where Eberron's vast magical industry has destroyed the planet with the help of multiple wars including the Cleansing (Dark Sun).
So then they have to find out how the planet was messed up while trying to survive in Athas (trying to deal with the changes in the races around them and magic itself), and when they get shifted back to Eberron try and stop it from happening while fending off the various factions closing in on them.
Basically all the cataclysms in Eberron will have the use of Defiling to blame and the players will need to explore the various ruins of different ages to put the pieces together and remedy the whole thing IF it can even be prevented, at the very least slow the draining of life from everything.
As far as I'm concerned, your average unconcerned NPC is going to think a Gnome is just a foreign Halfling by his stature.
I would just like to point out that being mistaken for a cannibal is not a good thing. You are not likely to be welcomed into the neighborhood with open arms.
They are hidden in the deepest, most secret and holy parts of the Halfling territories in the jungle. They help the halflings keep these areas safe, and function as an extremely respected minority.
Further, they are very difficult for outsiders to distinguish from halflings, as they've grown taller, don't have silly hair, etc.
Even ol' gnome bane would have trouble picking them out, because they look very different from when the gnomes were being eradicated.
So, why do you guys hate gnomes so much, anyway?
I would have much rather seen gnomes get twisted, changed and included like other races than eliminated, had it been my choice way back when.
I'd rather have no elves. Elves are everywhere.
But imagine gnomes molded to survive Athas.
That would really be a unique and interesting race.
So, why do you guys hate gnomes so much, anyway?
They actually got spellcasters in 1e and 2e, while halflings were pretty much forced to be Thieves/Rogues or Fighters? That was my thing, at least. I always wanted to play a halfling mage and never got much a chance thanks to an unfriendly PHB. Course I can play one now thanks to 4e...
So, why do you guys hate gnomes so much, anyway?
They actually got spellcasters in 1e and 2e, while halflings were pretty much forced to be Thieves/Rogues or Fighters? That was my thing, at least. I always wanted to play a halfling mage and never got much a chance thanks to an unfriendly PHB. Course I can play one now thanks to 4e...
While gnomes are somewhat difficult to make into melee combatants.
but let's not open up that can of worms. :D
So, why do you guys hate gnomes so much, anyway?
It isn't me, it's Galliard, or as he's known now, Nibenay. Nibenay hates Gnomes. He did a genocidal rampage on them. And he won. They are dead.
...of course, he could have gotten it wrong. He wouldn't be the first SK to have missed a few straggling survivors of the race he was tasked to eradicate (Hello Oronis, or should I say Keltis?)
...of course, he could have gotten it wrong. He wouldn't be the first SK to have missed a few straggling survivors of the race he was tasked to eradicate (Hello Oronis, or should I say Keltis?)
As I've said before, the only ones that seem to have actually done the job right are Pixie Blight, Slayer-of-Wemics, and Troll Burner. Because there are none of those races anywhere on Athas, lol.
...of course, he could have gotten it wrong. He wouldn't be the first SK to have missed a few straggling survivors of the race he was tasked to eradicate (Hello Oronis, or should I say Keltis?)
As I've said before, the only ones that seem to have actually done the job right are Pixie Blight, Slayer-of-Wemics, and Troll Burner. Because there are none of those races anywhere on Athas, lol.
Well, most of them that didn't finish, intentionally didn't finish. Keltis/Oronis, on the other hand, completely intended to finish, and was duped (by the Mind Lords) into believing he actually did (leaving the only remaining Lizardmen in Athas in the Last Sea region). For the other SK's that didn't finish... that was intentional neglect on their parts. They didn't want to finish -- because they became disenchanted with Rajaat, and don't want to do his dirty-work... However they aren't exactly friendly with the races they were tasked to kill (like Andropinis not liking Elves, Borys not liking Dwarves, etc.)
As far as anyone knows, Galliard/Nibenay did, in fact, wipe out the Gnomes (Daskinor also did wipe out the Goblins). Of course, *both* of those races, in D&D settings, are notoriously hard to extinguish, and tend to have an almost cockroach-level of resilience. So... I'm open to the idea that ol' Nibster didn't completely wipe out *all* of the Gnomes... Or that Daskey didn't quite get every Goblin for that matter.
If the objectives of the champions was to commit genocide against one particular target race, I doubt the Champions would have approached this by drawing swords and wands and making direct attacks. I agree with Xlorep, Gnomes, Goblins, Sprites, and Kobolds in particular, would be very difficult to wipe out in this manner. Like cockroaches.
In nature, there are several ways that entire species have been killed off: disease, loss of habitat, loss of food sources, loss of another critical resources, pressure from predators, inability to adapt to a changing climate, inability (or willingness) to procreate, etc.
I could image introducing DDT (or fantasy equivalent) to the Lizardmen's foodsource, which in turn reduces the egg shell strength and reduces the chance of lizardman young of surviving. This would be another effective method of killing off the Lizardmen population - slower... less bloody, but effective.
The flip side of this, is a race's ability to adapt. On Athas in particular, races have been known to quickly mutate to survive abrupt environmental changes. Gallard might have assumed that Gnomes are dead... which might be true. Of course, it could also be true that Gnomes mutated into another creature - a mutant gnome - that survives to this day. Who knows.
Maybe "Gnomes died out"... but in their dying moments, they transfered their conscious to Warforged and became a new race. Or the Lizardmen are now called Githzerai (or use the same stats). This might be an excellent way to introduce some of the other 4E races not commonly found on Athas.
And there's no way any Gnome is going to be alive on my Athas. I hate those damn disgusting creatures. I'm glad their dead and I'm going to keep it that way. Hmm...maybe that's why I love DS so much.
Take the revenant: it is presented by WotC as a race, yet cannot reproduce and doesn't live with others of its kind. A party member can easily be a revenant, bringing much new blood into the setting without creating an all-new, mysteriously un-Cleansed race.
I'm sure there are other exotic racial choices out there that sidestep the half-orc pitfall.
So, why do you guys hate gnomes so much, anyway?
It isn't me, it's Galliard, or as he's known now, Nibenay. Nibenay hates Gnomes. He did a genocidal rampage on them. And he won. They are dead.
...of course, he could have gotten it wrong. He wouldn't be the first SK to have missed a few straggling survivors of the race he was tasked to eradicate (Hello Oronis, or should I say Keltis?)
Well, sure. They're gnomes. I imagine it would be easier to fully exterminate the dwarves!
Crafty, easily missed even when they aren't trying to be missed, masterful illusionists, etc. Or conversely, if they were more fey in Green Age DS than in some settings, they may be living in those very very few places in the world where there's still green.
Or they could live under the sands, completely self sufficient/ a secret of the druids.
any number of things.
Heck, the idea that the gnomes truly are exinct just messes with my realism metre. I know that may seem silly, all things considered, but I just can't imagine gnome genocide being absolutely successful.
Heck, the idea that the gnomes truly are exinct just messes with my realism metre. I know that may seem silly, all things considered, but I just can't imagine gnome genocide being absolutely successful.
*shrug*
Dunno about you, but I can imagine it very easily. Then again we all know my stance on gnomes.
But you know what? It was uber lame. Trolls were a people, why they and not braxats, for example, were cleansed, yet the MM's trolls (be they 2e, 3e, or 4e) are actually monstrous on nearly all counts. You don't cleanse monsters, they'll die out with the coming Blue Age anyway.
Whoever wrote the Troll Grave Chasm adventure made the mistake of not changing the appearance and motivations and powers of the troll. The only person who took the Athasian policy of changing regular D&D stuff into weirder stuff (noble elves changed to racist thieves) and applied it to trolls was Lynn Abbey, who described the culture and appearance of trolls from the Cleansing Wars period, who basically looked like goliaths.
In Dungeon #56 Nov/Dec 1995, with Cover Art associated to, Bill Slavicsek's adventure "Grave Circumstances" for 3-6 PCs of 5th to 7th level, reveals the last of the trolls:
Show
2E AD&D, DS revised stats:
Patchwork Troll: INT average; AL CE; AC 2; MV 12; HD 10; hp 64; THAC0 11; #AT 4; Dmg 1d4+4/1d4+4/1d12/1d12; SD regenerate; SZ L (10' tall); ML 16; XP 3,000.
Psionics Summary: MAC 5
"If the PCs defeat the patchwork troll, it regenerates in 1d10 days. The only way to destroy it completely is to kill it and burn all the pieces. If even one piece remains or is lost in the mud, the patchwork troll returns. By that time, however, the PCs can finish their mission and leave the Grave."
2E AD&D, DS revised stats:
Patchwork Troll: INT average; AL CE; AC 2; MV 12; HD 10; hp 64; THAC0 11; #AT 4; Dmg 1d4+4/1d4+4/1d12/1d12; SD regenerate; SZ L (10' tall); ML 16; XP 3,000.
Psionics Summary: MAC 5
"If the PCs defeat the patchwork troll, it regenerates in 1d10 days. The only way to destroy it completely is to kill it and burn all the pieces. If even one piece remains or is lost in the mud, the patchwork troll returns. By that time, however, the PCs can finish their mission and leave the Grave."
Athasian Trolls were covered in detail in Lynn Abbey's The Rise and Fall of a Dragon King with description from the Cleansing Wars and Hamanu's campaign against them.
In Dungeon #56 Nov/Dec 1995, with Cover Art associated to, Bill Slavicsek's adventure "Grave Circumstances" for 3-6 PCs of 5th to 7th level, reveals the last of the trolls:
I never read the adventure, but I do remember the backlash from it; a LOT of people were angry about the fact that there was one troll left, a survivor of genocide, and he was an evil defiler. People interpreted this as an endorsement of genocide against the trolls; the editors later said that the whole point of the "defiler troll" was to create a moral quandary. Do you finish the job of genocidally wiping out an entire race, or do you let the one left live out his life knowing that his practices are helping to destroy the world?
You can bring in previously unseen races to the setting if you choose carefully. The usual trope of saying an half-orc is a Pristine Tower New Race is flimsy at best, as somehow you are playing an half-orc and yet saying you aren't...but playing an half-orc the way it's meant (idiosyncrasies, proud warrior tradition, etc) is, like for any other race, what makes it worth playing in the first place.
Take the revenant: it is presented by WotC as a race, yet cannot reproduce and doesn't live with others of its kind. A party member can easily be a revenant, bringing much new blood into the setting without creating an all-new, mysteriously un-Cleansed race.
I'm sure there are other exotic racial choices out there that sidestep the half-orc pitfall.
Revenant is a bad example, as they are by definition returned to life by a diety. You'd have to re-write the origins and nature of them for Dark Sun as much as for any other race.
Revenants are a good example in that what makes them unique is their personality and supernatural nature, not their long history of this or that, or tradition of this or that, like for other races that reproduce, build, hope for stuff, aim at things, build empires, etc. Revenants are a race, yes, but every member is a bit like the character the Crow.
I never read the adventure, but I do remember the backlash from it; a LOT of people were angry about the fact that there was one troll left, a survivor of genocide, and he was an evil defiler.
Just to clarify, while Patches the Troll was Chaotic Evil, he wasn't the defiler in the mud-flat jungle. Esturren the defiler sneaks into a ruin and somehow (probably psionics) convinces the Troll to guard, and since Esturren is the target of the PCs manhunt, having gone to the Troll Grave Chasm to attempt the dragon transformation ritual, inevitably the three parties collide in combat. The Troll will attack everyone if given a chance, Chaotic Evil ... after millenia of being the only one of your kind (who were hunted to virtual extinction), just how altruistic would you be? But yes, an evil Troll was another outrage for those looking to yell at Dark Sun's seedy past again.
Really though, how 4E handles the Cleansing Wars and interracial attitudes are the real issues here. The heart of Dark Sun was its hardcore, cutthroat attitudes and environment. The good guys get the moral high-ground by default when playing a mixed-race group. However, the lack of certain races, normally included in other subtypes (realms) within the same game supertype (D&D #E), is a significant unique identifier to Athas.
My question is: Will there be any explicit exclusion of creatures listed in any of the 4E Monstrous Manuals from being in 4E Dark Sun?
Really though, how 4E handles the Cleansing Wars and interracial attitudes are the real issues here. The heart of Dark Sun was its hardcore, cutthroat attitudes and environment.
I suspect they will handle it the same way the original boxed set did. I.E. they won't even mention it at all and will leave the reason for the world's state as a mystery. (Though us old-timers will have all the info we need on that one of course.) To be prefectly honest though, the history section was my least favorite part of the second box set and I'd be perfectly happy to totally retcon it for my own campaign. ( I loved the additonal regions such as the thrikreen empire though)
My question is: Will there be any explicit exclusion of creatures listed in any of the 4E Monstrous Manuals from being in 4E Dark Sun?
I hope so, as that was part of the flavor of Dark Sun as well as some of the other settings. (Such as no orks in Dragonlance.) I'm sure they will have a 'You're the DM do what you want' clause though. (Which is fine of course.)
Heck, the idea that the gnomes truly are exinct just messes with my realism metre. I know that may seem silly, all things considered, but I just can't imagine gnome genocide being absolutely successful.
*shrug*
Dunno about you, but I can imagine it very easily. Then again we all know my stance on gnomes.
Lol, fair enough. I ignore the existence of Deva any time no one at the table wants to play one, because I just don't like them.
Which is weird, because a quick perusal seems like something I would like. I just don't.
Since the convo has gotten on to trolls, I'm probably going to use trolls as a way to bring in another extinct race, or one never mentioned. Haven't decided which one yet, but I'm thinking some trolls travelled to the Feywild, or the Shadowfel, or something like that, and over time changed dramatically, to where they still call themselves trolls, and a scholar might recognize them as troll kin, but they are essentially a new race.
Same thing with some of the other races. i like the trolls, though, because their regen would allow them to live longer in a very hostile enviroment, and thus have a better chance of continuing to exist long enough to evolve.
I also plan on taking full advantage of other regions of Athas, like the Thri-Keen homeland, to allow players to play whatever they want.
Also, I love the idea of a Revenant who was ressurected by himself.
Because if I run a DS campaign, I'm running with the Divine abandonment line of thought, rather than the no gods ever, science, line of thought.
So, this guy dies, a long time ago. He goes to the place (can't remember name right now) that creates a barrier around athas, disallowing planar travel to Athas, and through a rift created by a failed attempt long ago to escape Athas catches a glimpse of the truth.
The gods exist, and could have saved Athas.
and they didn't.
So, this guy, he's angry. Ok, angry is like saying the Ocean is kinda big. He's...Wrathful. He spreads this info around the plane of the dead(Shadowfel), and uses the collected anger of many beings, alive and dead, plus his own, to fuel his reincarnation as a Revenant Avenger, but not until he has used that power to created a "hook" to the old gods of Athas, and syphon some of thier divine power.
So he's a revenant Avenger, no refluff for his class, straight up Divine, but the whole thing is still very Dark Sun.
His goal? To become powerful enough to either drag the gods back to Athas and make them deal with what they left behind, punish them for their negligence, or simply replace them. Or some combination of those things.
Remember that DS' halflings do not have big, hairy feet, or are merry, or live inside hills. They look like mini adults with angelic children's faces.
Oh and cannibalism. Do not forget the cannibalism.
I never played Dark Sun before (except the one encounter last week). Do halflings eat each other, or just other races?
If only the other races, that's not really cannibalism- Just a varied, healthy diet
Heck, the idea that the gnomes truly are exinct just messes with my realism metre. I know that may seem silly, all things considered, but I just can't imagine gnome genocide being absolutely successful.
*shrug*
Dunno about you, but I can imagine it very easily. Then again we all know my stance on gnomes.
Since the convo has gotten on to trolls, I'm probably going to use trolls as a way to bring in another extinct race, or one never mentioned. Haven't decided which one yet, but I'm thinking some trolls travelled to the Feywild, or the Shadowfel, or something like that, and over time changed dramatically, to where they still call themselves trolls, and a scholar might recognize them as troll kin, but they are essentially a new race.
Same thing with some of the other races. i like the trolls, though, because their regen would allow them to live longer in a very hostile enviroment, and thus have a better chance of continuing to exist long enough to evolve.
I think a Longtooth Shifter could be repurposed to be a Trollkin with minimal effort. They get the racial regeneration while bloodied and +2 Strength racial bonus.
I never played Dark Sun before (except the one encounter last week). Do halflings eat each other, or just other races?
If only the other races, that's not really cannibalism- Just a varied, healthy diet
Don't read if you don't want to know how the races came to exist on Athas.ShowAll other Athasian races if they go back far enough into the past, uncoincidentally about the same number of years as the human migration from Africa, can trace their lineage back to a halfling nature master. So the races are closely related.