Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 vellitrax Sep 26, 2010 10:44:52	i only just realised that there is nowjere on the Tyr map that is a place of rest for the dead in Tyr.
#2 603 Sep 26, 2010 11:20:00	Depends on how grimdark Athas is for you. They might take the Sweeny Todd solution if times are too hard, especially under Kalak's reign.
#3 tentagil Sep 26, 2010 12:05:42	Well most nobles and merchants likely place the dead in crypts in their own compounds, and the poor likely don't get buried, they aren't important enough for it and they make better fertalizer in what little quality land they have in the Tyr Valley. And I do beleive there are cypts beneath the city in Under-Tyr or whatever they call it.
#4 commieclone Sep 26, 2010 12:12:55	The dead are placed on a street corner in the halfling corner. Then they just seem to . . . disappear . . .
#5 Pennarin Sep 26, 2010 13:51:06	Simon Hawke's The Outcast says beyond the city limits, after an hour of walking at least, can be found a necropolis to store the dead, IIRC. It's where the templar Timor goes to animate the dead to launch an attack on Tyr.
#6 Silverblade_The_Enchanter Sep 26, 2010 14:29:56	In my campaign I say there's a necropolis beyond the city, but, not to bury them, but to burn them huge slabs of polished obsidian tiles etc focus heat down onto obsidian biers, elemental fire priests (cough cough primal or not they have gotta have fire worshippers) and they see to reducing the dead to ash and bone, used to fertilize the fields cause that stops undead and fertilizing, for food making, as it is too precious to ignore 603, Randall & Hopkirk, Bakers Extraordinaire', eh?;)
#7 603 Sep 26, 2010 21:04:16	603, Randall & Hopkirk, Bakers Extraordinaire', eh?;) Something like that, yeah. It also solves the problem of necromancy, because its very hard to animate flesh and bone that's been eaten by halflings or fed to the poor, and doesn't require a Fire Templar on duty all the time. They would use Fire templar instead of Fire Clerics/Shamans, after all...
#8 Pennarin Sep 26, 2010 22:39:25	I think people may be too rational in concluding a poor or starving community would eat their dead or use them as fertilizer. My two cents. Laying them in the ground or in a cavern, or throwing them into the sea or burning them, is what everyone has done for millennias in the real world, and so I imagine Athas.
#9 baronspam Sep 26, 2010 23:45:40	Why do people think people are starving in Tyr?  The city states, by definition, are the prime real estate of Athas.  Thats why the SK's claim them.  There is enough water and high quality soil for intensive agriculture.  The only mention of famine I find in the DSCG is in the description of Raam, and that is because of the constant fighting between the warlords and the almost complete lack of central planning.  If it were not for the lack of politcal freedom, and the fact that large numbers of people are slaves, the cities would be fairly decent places to live, as compaired to much of the rest of Athas.  Just in terms of resources, they are certainly the top of the heap.
#10 Pennarin Sep 27, 2010 1:12:57	baron's right too in pointing out this bizarre trend of constantly imagining Athasian life in the same terms of hardship as can be found in Waterworld or The Book of Eli or Mad Max. Everywhere, all the time. Not the case.
#11 Duskweaver Sep 27, 2010 1:59:00	To me, Zoroastrian-style ritual exposure of corpses has always seemed very appropriate for Athas. The Tibetan version involves actually dismembering the corpse, rather than simply exposing it, and that rather more (to our Western sensibilities) 'brutal' or 'savage' aspect might make it even more appropriate to Athas. It's a lot more work, though, so it would probably make more sense among small wilderness communities than in a big city like Tyr. (I won't link directly to the wiki article for Tibetan 'sky burial', because it contains rather graphic photographs of the process, but you can reach it indirectly via the 'tower of silence' article I've linked above.)
#12 Silverblade_The_Enchanter Sep 27, 2010 7:30:51	They aren't starving cause they work VERY BLOOD HARD to avoid it! ;) In reality there's no way Athasian cities could exist, as you need vast amounts of water for food, drink and cleanliness, otherwise... in the real world, Persia and several cultures in South America had mind-bogglingly huge, complex networks of irrigation that took hunreds of years to build. City states would have to make water and food production #1 priortities, for without them, all else crumbles. A major lesson idiots in our world have forgotten, ie farmers are THE most important people in reality NOT the rulers. No food, no civilization.... So in my vision of Athas, the cities make collection of urine and feaces as a major  task. In RL, urine was vital for bleching/cleaning cloth etc plus also making gunpowder, but in Athas, ther'es no way you can have a sewer system to clean out waste...not enough water, with that heat you'd get plagues...also, composted it's great fertilizer (heat from composting kills bugs) food production needs ogranic material to build proper humus. urine is a good source of fertilizer nutrients. See, Athasians would not, could not survive unless they were smart, Athasians CANNOT be some "dumb blockedhead ignorant savages" as folk wrongly think our ancestors were in the bronze/late stoneage age. They'd have ot have very damn good systems of keeping croplands fertile and watered. Duskweaver aye I'd go along with that, "sky burials" as a very clean way of corpse disposal except there's one BIG problem with it in Athas: it would encourage creatures to have a taste for human flesh ;) Earth doesn't have the horrors Athas has, lol, bad enough if lions got a taste for human flesh, never mind braxats etc! otherwise that is a good answer tot he issue, or using things like beetles to strip carcasses. icky stuff, but hey, important
#13 603 Sep 27, 2010 16:19:16	aye I'd go along with that, "sky burials" as a very clean way of corpse disposal except there's one BIG problem with it in Athas: it would encourage creatures to have a taste for human flesh ;) Earth doesn't have the horrors Athas has, lol, bad enough if lions got a taste for human flesh, never mind braxats etc! otherwise that is a good answer tot he issue, or using things like beetles to strip carcasses. Who says they don't already? Either way, I find it unlikely that Athasans would be that willing to return dead flesh back to the ecosystem that easily. After all, most of them barring a few druids and shamans, are taking from the land what it refuses to give. (And yes, I *am* quoting one of the cursed ghosts from the Altar of Damnation in WOW.)
#14 aumshantih Sep 27, 2010 20:12:22	Namaste: I would see this partly determined by elemental cult affiliation, and social status. Most folks who follow one of the primal elements would have funerals done by the element in question.  Earth would be burial, Fire would be cremation, Air would be the Zoroastrian style exposure in high towers.  Water would be weird - there isn't enough water to safely put corpses in (like yogi's who go and die in the Ganes..).  Perhaps the liquid of the bodies is carefully removed (salting anyone?) and purified, preserved in some fashion. The higher your social status, the more elaborate a funeral you can afford.  Noble familes obviously have private crypts, and there are necropolises. Slaves and the poor probably have little, if anything proper done with their remains.  They are probably used for some small economic gain in some fashion.
#15 nosan2 Sep 27, 2010 20:32:46	i only just realised that there is nowjere on the Tyr map that is a place of rest for the dead in Tyr. Under the 10th yard line in the gladiator arena.  Right next to Jimmy Hoffa.
#16 lord_rock Sep 28, 2010 0:31:35	To me, Zoroastrian-style ritual exposure of corpses has always seemed very appropriate for Athas. The Tibetan version involves actually dismembering the corpse, rather than simply exposing it, and that rather more (to our Western sensibilities) 'brutal' or 'savage' aspect might make it even more appropriate to Athas. It's a lot more work, though, so it would probably make more sense among small wilderness communities than in a big city like Tyr. (I won't link directly to the wiki article for Tibetan 'sky burial', because it contains rather graphic photographs of the process, but you can reach it indirectly via the 'tower of silence' article I've linked above.) This is awesome... thanks for this! Namaste: I would see this partly determined by elemental cult affiliation, and social status. Most folks who follow one of the primal elements would have funerals done by the element in question.  Earth would be burial, Fire would be cremation, Air would be the Zoroastrian style exposure in high towers.  Water would be weird - there isn't enough water to safely put corpses in (like yogi's who go and die in the Ganes..).  Perhaps the liquid of the bodies is carefully removed (salting anyone?) and purified, preserved in some fashion. The higher your social status, the more elaborate a funeral you can afford.  Noble familes obviously have private crypts, and there are necropolises. Slaves and the poor probably have little, if anything proper done with their remains.  They are probably used for some small economic gain in some fashion.  I also like this.  Dead bodies would have to be a big resource though... just too many things to do with them for most of them to "go to waste".  I see those who can afford burials using one of the aforementioned methods but the common dead body must be used somehow.
#17 Pyrate_Jib Oct 01, 2010 14:34:33	Perhaps some use the bones of the dead to fashion weapons or tools.  Imagine the ancestor bone dagger made from the femur of great uncle Bynax.
#18 el_shawno Oct 01, 2010 16:12:57	Perhaps the liquid of the bodies is carefully removed (salting anyone?) and purified, preserved in some fashion.   I could definitely see tribal/nomadic groups removing the water from the bodies of their a la' the Fremen.