I was wondering what parts of what edition people are using? Be it the original boxed, athas. Org, the revised, 4th, or have you started to convert 5th?
I am in a holding pattern right now. I don’t want to put much effort in until I know what WotC has planned for 5th Edition.
I tend to like a lot of splat books so I can go through and pick pieces out that I want for the flavor of my game. What they can do right now is pretty much anything. I suspect when they come out with their OGL in whatever format they choose, we will have a better idea of what will come to pass.
In a best case scenario, I would go with 5th Edition. In a worst case scenario, I would go with 3.5 Edition. If I went with the 3.5 Edition, I would house rule a few things from 5th Edition in.
i look forward to see you updates cyber dave. torg_smith they have already said there will be no splat books with this edition. they have also pointed out that there will on be 2 products per year with 5th we know all ready what is planed for 2015 and 2016 and they have hinted at possible 2017 . i do not want to wait till 2018 to see if dark sun is adressed if ever because the default setting is forgottem realms. so iam converting 2nd and 3.5 to 5th. on a side note i realy want to coem up with a psionic combat system along teh lines of the will and the way product if anyone has any ideas i would love to hear them.
I use the original material for timeline and have run it with 3.5 and clone rules. Next tiome I polay I think houseruled 2E will be the way to go.
eventhorizon1 wrote:
Since the start of 5th, I have notice at least 3 to 4 peoples working on Darksun rules. Why don't there peoples gather together and their numbers crunching power to create only one 5th ed like Athas.org did with the 3.5e rules?
It would be very nice to see something emerge from the fan!
i think thats a great idea there are enough of us.
some of the things i think would be great for us to work on is a psionic combat system and not wait till 2017-2018 for it to come out, something based on the novels just updated for 5th. a full gladiator class, psionic class, and rules that are all dark suns. maybe weapon breakage (cyber dave i have seen your stuff and use a bit of it great work) defieling rules, a templar class and why not convert one of the adventures there are enough for dark sun. anyway i am more than willing to get this done.
Lets prioratize. What do you mean when you say psionic combat system? psion on psion? that shouldnt be any different then any other class facing another member of their class. The big thing is making psionics that fits in 5e, but is not just a fluffed up wizard. I actuall think the warlock makes a better chasis for psionics then a power point system, or just getting more and more class or subclass features that change you. Invocations that give you short term use powers. Psionics will be one of the few things in 5th that I think would benefit from branch/tree growth. You can dabble in many types of psyhcic abilities if you wish, but none of them will ever be great, i.e. your telekenisis will never be able to topple a giant or send dozens of arrows/darts flying at your enemies.
After that, or more aptly; along side psionics; a Templar is needed. I dont think we need a special Warlock subclass for each Sorcerer king, but one general subclass, and maybe a few changes to spell list. To me Templars are more orderly then most regular Warlocks.
I think gladiators fall under Fighter as a subclass.
Weapon breakage should be an option ruling, not a manditory part of the final system. Even if we use bone, wood, and various stones as basic materials, and animal hides for many armors, I think it should still be an optional rules.
Personally, I liked the old-school Templars as 'Divine' Casters utilizing there SK as their 'God.' Thought that was very flavorful as opposed to Arcane Pacts. I guess it's just a fluff preference and maybe you could have both. Perhaps some SK's interact with their Templars more as Cleric, Paladins, OR Warlocks. I could see Abalach Re being more Warlocky, whereas Dregoth or Nibenay or Hamanu would be more divinely inspired.
It seems the smartest way to go would be to get close to what will likely end up being the official version by staying within the dictates of 5th Edition. For example, they've already stated that all the classes for 5th Edition were presented in the PHB. Anything that was a class in prior editions will be come kind of build or subclass in 5th Edition. So worrying about building an entire psion class is a non-starter. They're going to skin on of the classes that already exist. As mentioned, templars will likely just be clerics with their King as the deity they worship. Defilers will simply be a sub or build of wizards. Psions will likely be a sub or build or skin of a sorcerer or wizard. Just look at the Eberron packet they've released. Articifer is simply a build. They're not going to pump out dozens of extra classes. Well... according to their press so far they're not going to pump out more classes. Who knows what they'll actually do in the future.
@cowleymen, I agree I do not want a fluffed up wizard as a Psion class. Can you elaborate on why you think the warlock makes a better choice for the class compared to the point system which is already laid out for us in the DM’s guide? To answer your question about psionic combat that’s exactly what I was talking about psions versus psions, as to why? It goes back to the whole all minds are closed thing (revised campaign boxed set) and especially the will and the way supplement, but let’s shelf that for the time being. I do like that idea that you mention on how the class can dabble in a number powers but will not be able to do extraordinary things with telekinesis. I really like the branch/tree growth and think this is the road to go with the class.
Definitely need a templar. I think using the warlock is as good as any place to start. Like OsckarOisinson I would prefer to have them as divine caster that use the SK’s as their god.
A gladiator sub class is also a good call as long as some of their signature class abilities makes the cut. Did you see the playtest packet that had the gladiator subclass?
Of course weapon breakage should be optional but I still would like an optional mechanic for it especial after getting the DM’s guide and see all the variations to some of the rules it offered.
@blackbriar. i am well aware of of these things you mention concerning the classes so i have no problems with them being subclasses or builds. i have seen the eberron article and read what they said prior to it, isnt that the same warforged race they had in the play test packet? as far as psionics being a non starter i just disagree. as i have said i just dont feel like waiting 2+ years for them to tack on psionics.
so for those that do want to work on some of these things where should we start?
talking with one of my friends about the Dark Sun 5e. Paladins as Templars! You could come up with new Oaths for each different SK's if you want.
As for warlock, The innvocations and at-willness of the class as a whole. It could be quite easy to just say, pick two or three invocations, then have the previous invocations being requirments for picking up new ones.
Scaling and short rest recharges represent your core powers, and is a very distinct feeling from casters. Even out of the box, warlocks really dont feel like a caster at all with their pact magic system
Could still use a point system instead of slots combined with learned at will/daily invocation style abilities, but i just think the Warlock is a good refrence for creating something very different from vacian casting as it is in 5e, but still retains good game balance
as for psion vs psion, I dont see why we need special rules for two psi characters to fight each other. If two psions want to go at it, let them go at each other with what ever rules or agreements they come up with between each other. Even if your not pshycic yourself, you can still learn the disciplines to protect your own mind from intrusion, represeted by which ever mental stat save your DM might think the situtation might warrent. Maybe perhaps a new mental defence? took the best from INt, wis, or cha, +10, with half prof. if your a psi character.
I think fighter battlemaster covers Gladiator just find, maybe a variant of that uses CHa, and the creation of flasher Manuvers that could be learned, but as a whole, Battlemaster already covers everything I think a Gladiator needs. Perhaps replacement of the student of warrior feature with extra manuvers, or an additional bonus to second wind?
sounds like a good a place to start. i actually like the idea of a paladin as templars i think its perfect, now i have to really look at that class. so warlock it is for the psion class and combined point system with at wills is a good way to go i think.
that is a great idea and something i was looking for as far as a new mental defence this i am on board with.
the battlemaster as the gladiator this was a thread not to long ago on the main forum and one i just do not agree with. i like the idea as the gladiator being a sublass of the fighter.
this week i will start the templar/paladin idea write something up and then we can pick it apart.
2e boxed-set, with revised, but, without The events of Prism Pentad. Serious, the SK last for thousands of years, only to die like Star Trek extras.
I checked out D&D 3e from the library (yes, my library has D&D books!). Never played it, but it looks interesting.
I really like what Cyber-Dave did with the Templars, though I take minor issue with using the Warlock chassis exclusively for the mechanics. I think Clerics and Paladins would be the most true to the source material mechanically and thematically for Templars. The Warlock is actually a great fit for Dark Sun, though not necessarily for all Templars. That came with 4e, and I didn't feel they had a great reason for doing it then (basically, just trying to find a way for everything to be CORE). That being said, I think it would interesting to have a Templar Sub-class for each of the three respective classes, since 5e is supposedly all about options anyway. Perhaps, Paladin could be the default for most Templars (if you all recall, in 2e, Templar Spell-casting only went up to 6th level spells, and they tended to have a fairly martial bent in many cases. I thought maybe Paladins could be the rank and file Templars, with High Templars or religious leaders and the like might be better represented as Clerics. Warlocks could fit in with SK's with a particularly Arcane bent, or as sort of... I don't know, outside actors still beholden to the SK's, like the SKs' personal Defilers. To make a real-life military analogy: Fighters would be the rank and file Troops, Paladins would be their Templar NCO's, Clerics would be CO's, and Warlocks would be everything else in terms of combatants, (espionage, intel, 'special forces,' irregulars, personal body guards, etc.). Take this in the context of a theocracy (which to a greater or lesser extent is what most of the city-states default to) and you could have their barracks be cloisters/monastaries/temples, representing a carrot and stick approach all in one institution e.g. "All Hail Tektuktitlay the beneficent at the temple (and if you don't, we'll arrest you for treachery)!" Templars are all about social control in my mind so having them fill multiple functions makes sense and this would be well-reflected in having multiple mechanical ways to render aTemplar, it would also allow more role-playing opportunities.
Maybe we could have a discussion of what each SK most represents in terms of power and then on what kind of mechanics would best support these within each class. It'd be a useful thought-experiment anyway, and maybe it would turn out that multiple-subclasses are necessary for all SK's.
good idea oskar i have to look back at the mataerial and see if there is anything on on what each SK most represents i have a few ideas on this ..are we going with the curent 5th e gods and then maybe use those or do we need diffrent domains for each SK and the power the represent. i luv the idea of paladins as templars i am working on that and a gladiator sub class and a psion class.
Cool, yea I haven't delved deeply into the individual personalities of the SK's really. I know more about how they are perceived but even then, I just never got around to reading up on them much. I did read the Prism Pentad and even took notes on it but they really aren't developed in that. Actually the most developed are Sacha and Wyan, who are both really ersatz SK's anyway (Rajaat loyalists and all). I know Dregoth is obsessed with achieving monotheistic divinity and obviously has great powers of Divination and Necromancy. The Oba is kind of a faux-nature deity so life, (or, if we're doing home-brew, blight), would be good domains for her. Hamanu has the whole 'Lion who mounts the world" vibe so Light and War? Nibenay could be shadow/trickery? IDK someone with more expertise should probably chime in. I have no idea what some of the others might be like Daskinor, Abalach-Re, Tecktutitlay (moons if anything), Kalid-Ma, Borys, or what's-his-butt from Balic.
Knowledge, life, light, nature, tempest, trickery, war, death these are the domains and I have decided not to use use the paladin as a base for the templar instead I want to go with the older version of them being evil clerics. Maybe give a longer look at what cyber Dave did.
A list of the SK:
Hamanu –war
Abalach-re- trickery
Nibenay- knowledge
Adropinis- life?
Lalalipuy- nature
Tectuktlay – He is according to all material I could find and have read over the years the weakest SK. Maybe tempest?
Kalak -
Dregoth – death
Kalid-ma-
Daskinor-
As you can see there are only 8 domains and 10 SK/Queens. I want to avoid using duplicate domains. Any suggestion would be welcome. I have hit a blank on who should be the tempest domain, life, and light. If there is a life and death domain and light why no darkness. There are other domains from forgotten realms chaos, order (law), and darkness maybe these could be adopted for dark sun ?
So no elemental cleric sub class in the players down load anybody have any ideas? On the elemental domains? Did every one look at the review of the module for the elemental story line? Athas is mention about playing the story set in dark sun I am getting the new story line as soon as I can but I am sure its at most one paragraph. Any ideas on the SK’s domains I am going to incorporate cyber-dave spell list and abilities at certain levels any ideas /help , suggestions would be welcome.
Sorry I can't really add to much, though I think the domains you have are all more or less right on. Andropinis would be a prime candidate for Law, Trade, Travel, and possibly Tempest (because of being near the Sea) or some kind of Rhetoric based one. Personally, I think Light as a domain is better left to elemental clerics.
I wish there were more Domains but I could see Kalid-Ma having a 'dream' or 'undeath' domain. I think It would be ideal if each SK had 1 domain that was their's alone, then 1-2 that they shared with other SK's.
Daskinor I have no idea, Terror/Fear domain? Warding domain?
Kalak... I always like to leave him open, as with everything in Tyr. Since it's the quintessential starting area of the setting, I think it's usually better to leave it open or unknown.
What about Borys, Sielba, Sacha, and Wyan? Any thoughts for them?
borys i thought doesnt have teplars (could be wrong ) but instead had spirit somethi warrios i am reading the book now the last one i know its in there , was sielba killed by hamanu?, the other 2 were dead for all intents and purpose just floating heads so iam steering clear of them. i will just go through all the cleric do manis i can find and add them and you let me know what you think.
You're right about all those SK's I wasn't sure with borys, I play him a little differently, in my world, he created the Dray and Dregoth creates an undead race (or brings them to this world, haven't decided), they form the Upper crust of the society in Ur Draxa while the tribute are kind of split between blood sacrifices to bind Rajaat and slaves to serve the Dray. So in his society, I do have an analogue of Templars.
I always thought it might be fun to use Sacha and Wyan as intercessors for Rajaat and thus having access to his domains (which I think should be a weird pastiche) I always thought of using them as a temptation to some PC's and NPC (like they were to Tithian in Prism Pentad) for secret power.
Sielba was killed but I just kind of thought for flavour reasons or if you wanted to have her secretly alive for some reason.
As for my Pseudo-Elemental planes, here is the graphic I use (I still use water because in my campaign, Silt didn't replace water, toxic Sludge did):
Key:
Bold Italics = Pure Elemental/Energy planes
Italics = Quasi-Elemental
[ ] = Pseudo-Elemental
Bold = Prime Elemental
( ) = Para-Elemental
Positive Energy/Negentropy/Sun
Wind [Storm] Steam [Mud] Loam [Metal] Radiance [Lightning]
Air (Fog) Water (Ooze/Acid) Earth (Magma) Fire (Smoke)
Vacuum [Blizzard] Ice [Sludge] Stone [Dust] Ash [Ether]
Negative Energy/Entropy/Shadow
wow oskar thats a lot of elmenatl planes i use the 4 main ones and then the para ones rain ,silt , magma, and sun.
ive decided to leave the light domain for the sun cleric i let players play the sun cleric in a mostly neutral alignment.
ok back to the SK's here is what i have come up for the remaining ones.
daskinor-madness using someof the madness rules from the DMG
kalid-ma - darkness
kalak - i am at a toatl loss be it forgotten realms , path finder , fan , or homebrew on what domain he should have and i read the novels 3 times lol
I agree with Daskinor being Madness, forgot about those optional rules in the DMG. Kalid-Ma could be darkness... I can't remember all of his story.
Really disappointing the Elemental Evil Player's Companion didn't have elemental clerics.
I have decided to run a second edition game. They have all the second edition material up on DriveThruRPG now. Well almost all. WOOT! 
hey oskaroisinson..ok finally got Kalak domain its will be destruction now that all the SK'S have domains. i was wondering if we could maybe all work together on divine domain spells (elemental based of course ), and also the channel divinity. i have re-read then and they are not very elemental in nature. so any help getting started would be great .. i still want to keep the clerics the way they were based in 2nd E but updated to 5th .
I can probably look into it more in May, my schedule will slow down a lot. Maybe just PM me during the first week with some ideas and we can get a back and forth going. I recently played around drafting some gestalt 5e characters, one was a genasi elemental cleric/vengeance paladin so I have a few initial ideas. Personally, I'd like to work out something something where you actually can gain different domains/totems/spheres as you progress, I don't like the idea of a Cleric or Paladin only devoting themselves to a single aspect of a deity/kami/elemental, it seems like you should gradually be able to master other aspects or be a purist.
I'm happy to discuss some of the properties of each element and how best to reflect that mechanically.
hey oskar this is eventhorizon1 had some account issues. ok may sounds good. i dont know why i had such a block with Kalaks domain but it will be death. i reread the novel.
~~Okay 1st off I love running Darksun in 4th edition it feels made for it and I mostly use the 4th books with some fluff and background from before.
As for those expecting Wizards to do a 5th edition they have to hire a new crew first since they fire 70% of the 5ths development staff just after 5th hit the stores. Remember wizards does not care about the RPG any more it about the brand ie. The board games, movies, and anything else they put the D&D logo on. That why they out sourced everything since the 3 main books and why they themselves are not producing anything this year. As they stated they are not doing any splat book and world book can be considered splat books. Embrace 1st edition mentality were it toke almost 5 years passed before any but the core 4 main books came out Not counting the Fiend Folio which was made by TSR UK.
You got your game now enjoy it I for one am sticking to 4th edition it is a well developed game and works well. IMHO
DarkMag1167 wrote:
This is my first forum post of any kind. Forgive me if I hit any wrong notes, but this thread looks like the right place to jump in.
I've been out of RPG gaming for about, oh, well, it's a decades sort of thing, but no matter. The point is that I've got a 9yr old son and 12yr old daughter that want to try a fantasy RPG, so I'm jumping in with D&D 5th since I played AD&D back when it was called that. And this is all fine and I'll be glad to pick up the rules and perhaps run a FR campaign for them, or a random dungeon crawl, or something. However, for myself, I've never played Dark Suns and this is what I want to play/run for myself and with other like-minded friends. That said, I'd like some advice as to how to jump in. Here are my constraints:
1. The only D&D I'll really know will be 5e rules. It's just been too long, so the limits of my knowledge will be 5e that I'm learning now. I don't want to learn another D&D version other than 5e at this time.
2. I've never played Dark Sun.
So, how do I jump in? I'm already reading the regular 5e rules and have the core books. Is it possible/desirable to pick up a used Dark Sun suplement, or boxed set, or whatever, choose someone's conversion rules, do the background reading on DS, and begin to play a Dark Sun campaign? If so, given that I'm already reading 5e core rules, what DS-specific materials must and/or should I have to jump in at 5e?
Hey, thanks a million :-)
S
I think it is possible, it just depends on what you want to do. I would HIGHLY recommend you invest in the Dark Sun pdf's from 2e. They have many rules sub-systems that are still usable or easily adaptable to 5e, such as those for bartering and survival. Also, since 2e was really the golden age of fluff, I feel like it gives you a really expansive view of the setting should you wish to delve deeper into any particular area or aspect of Athas. I have run Dark Sun in 3e and 4e and will be doing so again in 5e, but I ALWAYS make ample use of the original 2e resources when doing so. I also feel like the original art needs to be appreciated, the covers were Brom and Baxa, who each have a very distinct style, but likewise the interior illustrations, which came out of the whole Dark Age comics aesthetic as kind of a throw-back to precurors like Conan and Barsoom. Personally, I feel like this look is very important when you are thinking about Dark Sun.
Beyond the 2e books, should you wish to fill things out more, there is the Prism Pentad, which provides a good backdrop storyline for PC's to interact with. Even if you are not at all familiar with Dark Sun, reading even the first book or part of it can give you a pretty good understanding of the world's internal logic, i.e. what it means to be a hero in DS, what makes for a compelling encounter, etc. Idk about the other novels that have been put out but I read and took notes on the Prism Pentad because, in the Expanded Campaign Setting from 2e, it more or less assumes that the events of the Prism Pentad have played out as written. So it kind of helps fill in some of those holes.
If novels aren't your thing or you just got enough of a feel from the 2e books already, you could check out Athas.org, it has a good amount of free content which updated and expanded (and still is expanding) the campaign setting to 3e (and was officially licensed to do so by wizards I believe). This is most helpful when adapting homebrew mechanics, because 3e is much closer to 5e in terms of game design than 5e is to 2e. Moreover, they fill in some of the holes from the original 2e books, such as what the hell is going on in the Deadlands, what the hell Dregoth is really up to, etc.
Finally, the 4e books, while kind of fluff-lite, do very quickly outline some of the key things about each major settlement in the tablelands, and i often use it as a reference on the fly, though I don't know if I would recommend buying the actual books, because 75% of the content is 4e-specific mechanics.
If you need a homebrew system, cyber-dave and someone else actually posted a pdf version for 5e DS on these forums recently, so you could easily playtest that. Likewise, the Unearthed Arcana articles for the new Battlesystem could be used in 5e DS extensively if so desired (original DS was all about da mass combat). If you need more than that, let me know. I have a slew of online resources for maps, names, places, encounters, etc. if you need them. Likewise, if you need help homebrewing or have any questions, this forum, while somewhat of a ghost-town currently is still consistently lurked by a small cabal of hardcore DS nerds, myself included, and I think I can speak for most when I say, we really don't have much better to do, so don't hesitate to ask! 
OskarOisinson wrote:
Hmm... well it's hard to say, kind of depends on how far you want to go with it. Assuming you're starting at a low-level, the Expanded Campaign Setting alone should suffice as it kind of loops back around or alludes to other source materials that exist in the expanded DS setting. It gives a really good overview.
Other good 2e books are City-State of Tyr, which gives you a very in-depth view of the typical starting area for DS, and possibly Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water; Defiling and Preserving; Will and the Way: etc.
These go more into depth about the nature of magic and psionics. Then there are bunch of area-specific and race-specific splats and adventure modules and the monstrous compendiums.
If you want to throw something together quickly, I actually still find the some of the adventure modules useful, I just stat out the monsters differently and change the DC's.
So, to conclude, I was would say the Expanded and Revised DSCS is mandatory, then potentially City-State of Tyr, then whatever else as needed. The monstrous compendiums I'm on the fence about purchasing, but I would definitely suggest you pick up the free pdf's at Athas.org, the ecology sections can be a nice reference and, as with the player races, many of the monsters in DS are interesting twists on conventional fantasy tropes. Finally, the Advenure Modules are very useful regardless of edition if you want just want to jump right in.
Beyond that, I don't think you need much other than the 5e books (PHB, MM, DMG), possibly the few Unearthed Arcana supplement pdf's for 5e they;ve released on the official D&D website (these are helpful for certain things depending on your campaign), and then the 5e conversion pdf from these forums.
If you really want, there is still quite some room for interpretations of psionics so if you want to use those rules (which I feel is a big part of what makes DS different), there are many takes on how to implement them floating around not only on the 5e boards, but also in the 5e conversion PDF I mentioned.
Maps and such can be found free online, my favorite is digitalwanderer
Saganesque wrote: