Wood - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Wood

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ancalimohtar
Jun 24, 2010 14:38:35 If there are very few trees, there must be very little wood, right? Wood would be extremely expensive, wouldn't it? In the Tyr region, people don't really know about the gigantic forest on the other side of the mountains; in fact, those two cities fight over that one pathetic little forest.

So what are tables made of? Chairs? Other furniture? Broomsticks? Handles for axes? Spatulas? Farm implements? Wagons? Spears? There's no way you could make these things with bone and stone. The sharp bits, maybe. The body of the object? No way.

The scarcity of metal can be compensated for in the narrative of the setting if you have wood. Without wood, you are really screwed in being able to depict a realistic living situation. How is this explained in the setting?
#2
Sysane
Jun 24, 2010 14:45:11 Bone, stone, and chitin would comprise most of the material used for common place objects. While not overly abundant, wood would still be available. There are small groves and plantations that exist just outside of the walls of most City-States. I'd imagine that the oasises that dot the Tyr region would also proved a source for wood.
#3
Arithezoo
Jun 24, 2010 14:50:50 Did you just use the phrase "realistic living situation" to describe a fantasy setting? But seriously, Sysane is exactly right. For example, one of the popular axes is crafted from the jaw bone of a huge predator...pretty awesome if you ask me.

If you are strongly bothered by the use of these materials to the point where you can't activate your suspension of disbelief you have two easy solutions:
1) In your Dark Sun game wood is more prevalent. For example, you could say that the Dead Forest supplies wood to the Tyr region. Its called the Dead Forest because the trees have no leaves...such things died out long ago in the region. Instead, they evolved a symbiotic relationship with various forms of fungi.

2) Don't play a Dark Sun game. There are plenty of other fantastic settings, so pick one and have a blast.
#4
Pennarin
Jun 24, 2010 14:56:37 Bone spatulla, chair with leather fillet over a (fast-growing) bamboo structure.

Actual wooden stuff is made of giant agafarri wood felled from the Crescent Forest. One can make dozens upon dozens of hard table tops with one trunk.

Plus, wooden furniture is treated against dry rot on Athas, and owners take care of it.

Maybe it doesn't cost as much as we think, but a city's laws force wooden furniture to be entrusted to a reseller upon death (without heirs) or bankruptcy or enslavement, making sure no one does crazy things with it, like burning or trashing it. Cities are already doing that with water, making sure even the poor can afford it, by establishing water markets.
#5
merchant_of_shadows
Jun 24, 2010 15:07:20 I'd assume chairs can be woven from some desert alternative to reed when people dont just stand in hammoks or on pillows lieing on the ground. Tables can be made from stone. Considering there are plenty of huge lizard beasts - you will be surprised the body of how many objects can be done from their bones. Foor broomsticks - I assume that poor people will use only brooms, with no stick attached. Axe handles? I'd assume whole axes are made from scapula bones.

There are people living in the deserts you know. They don't have a lot of wood or iron either. They don't even have chiting and obsidian and they still manage.
#6
sheepskate
Jun 24, 2010 15:42:01 Woody fungi can be used, if common, I'm not sure, I know that's what drow are said to use instead of wood. Otherwise, the best option is bone, in fact, you could have it that the richest people use wood, while the poorer people use bone, therefore making wood a symbol of power....
#7
phoenix_m
Jun 24, 2010 17:24:24
You can get an inferior wood-like structure from various cacti, there are plenty of cacti on Athas. With Merchant of Shadows' post I can also see lots of wicker furniture now.
#8
Terrainosaur
Jun 25, 2010 15:17:55 Wicker. There are few trees, but plenty of plants.
#9
Raddu76
Jun 25, 2010 17:36:33 Cacti are not the only wood available in the desert. There's an oft overlooked terrain: Scrub Plain. As noted in Teos' article...
"While even the most desolate desert landscape can conceal a surprising quantity of life, the Scrub Plains are very different than the typical Athasian terrain. These small areas of dry land are dotted by thorny brush, a variety of grasses, and thin trees. Cacti are present as well. (Deserts in Phoenix and California are often similar to the concept of scrub plains, though many areas in real world resemble this type.)

Herders and hunters come to these lands of relative bounty. When a rare rain comes, the land explodes with colorful if short-lived flowers. This beauty is balanced by the prevalence of many cunning creatures, including the common Gith and Jozhal. Many will say the true threat is the druids that often protect the lands. If they judge those in their lands to overuse it, let alone defile it, their wrath can be quick and unforgiving. "

To give real world example of more trees that live in the desert scrub plains we have, Palo Verde, Acacia, Mesquite, Desert Willow, Ocotillo, Palm trees to just name a few. Now those aren't thick trees, but you can definitely get decent quality weapon hafts, tools, furniture, and construction materials. Osage-orange is a tree that thrives in arid climates and makes just about the best bows in the americas, as well as being dense for native clubs.

#10
Terrainosaur
Jun 25, 2010 17:39:43 This is what I like about Dark Sun. Experienced players who haven't experienced it yet ask questions like, "Are there trees?" The sense of wonder is back. That leaves a lot of room for good DMing.
#11
Alphastream
Jun 25, 2010 18:50:19 Agreed, the wonder should always be there, even for players or DMs that know the setting. I had a lot of fun, after several years of DS, taking an ecology class and learning a bit about deserts. It is really easy to think about a desert as endless dunes (insert Sahara Hollywood footage here) instead of a desert the way most deserts are in the world - an arid landscape with low rainfall. You can look at Phoenix or California (compare Joshua Tree to Sahara, for example) or Utah or Colorado or even eastern Oregon (with plenty of trees but very arid). LA is in a desert, but survives with engineering and lots of water brought in and carefully (to modern extents) managed. You can also look to some parts of Africa for examples of what Gulg might be - trees, even forest, but with killer dry seasons. It is likely that in Gulg or Nibenay or in any Athasian estate you would be in severe trouble for cutting down anything tree-like without permission.

With all of that in mind I think we can find some good reasons for why wood is not so incredibly rare, but why the typical Athasian trek is not filled with trees. Wood that is of high quality (the kind you use for large construction) would be rare, but wood sufficient to build a one-story building when you are surrounding the wood with stucco/adobe is not.

If you want some realism, add bits about this to your game. Some ideas: Show a merchant with slaves gathering small pieces of cactus to dry and use as a wood. Show scavengers in scrub plains finding wood. Show templars in Gulg sentencing someone that pulled down a tree to death in the arena. Show a village hut being built with weak wood and strong brick (the mud being fired under the supervision of a priest/shaman of Fire) and contrast to a wealthy estate where the walls of an expansion have actual wooden beams and stucco around that.
#12
commissar
Jun 25, 2010 19:38:54 Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable.
#13
Raddu76
Jun 25, 2010 21:38:40
Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable.

From an old netproject...I believe.

Broy - A mead made from fermented kank nectar. It is sometimes spiced and other times left unspiced.
cost: 2 bits (one mug)
Water-Broy - A watered down broy, which helps to slake one's thirst a bit more than thicker, sweeter broy.
cost: 1 bit (one mug)
Blue Cactus Ale - This cheap, heavy ale is made from the fruit of the grall cactus.
cost: 1 bit (one mug)
Beer - Common beer made from fermented grains.
cost: 1 cp (one gallon)
Scuppernong - Thick, bitter, and silvery-colored, scuppernong is the favored drink among elves.
cost: 1 cp (one jug)
Bulis Wine - Made from from fermented bulis berries, bulis wine has a bluish-purple color. It is rather inexpensive and is mainly purchased by the working class Athasians.
cost: 1 cp (one jug)
Asticles Wine - This tart, dry wine is favored among the nobility. It a very fine drink and as such is very expensive.
cost: 8 sp (one bottle)
#14
Nyarlathotep
Jun 27, 2010 20:37:45
Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable.

They do if you (assuming you are your campaign's DM) say so.

#15
Alphastream
Jul 01, 2010 14:43:48
Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable.

From an old netproject...I believe.

Broy - A mead made from fermented kank nectar. It is sometimes spiced and other times left unspiced.
cost: 2 bits (one mug)
Water-Broy - A watered down broy, which helps to slake one's thirst a bit more than thicker, sweeter broy.
cost: 1 bit (one mug)
Blue Cactus Ale - This cheap, heavy ale is made from the fruit of the grall cactus.
cost: 1 bit (one mug)
Beer - Common beer made from fermented grains.
cost: 1 cp (one gallon)
Scuppernong - Thick, bitter, and silvery-colored, scuppernong is the favored drink among elves.
cost: 1 cp (one jug)
Bulis Wine - Made from from fermented bulis berries, bulis wine has a bluish-purple color. It is rather inexpensive and is mainly purchased by the working class Athasians.
cost: 1 cp (one jug)
Asticles Wine - This tart, dry wine is favored among the nobility. It a very fine drink and as such is very expensive.
cost: 8 sp (one bottle)

You know, my memory is no good, but part of me wants to say this is from the Dark Sun Online game that used to exist ages ago on the TEN network...
#16
RalofTyr
Jul 02, 2010 13:34:27 Well, wood is less plentiful on Athas, however that has one effect; wood is commonly used to make fire; that's the number one use of wood. Sure, you can use scrubs and such, but there's only so much of that around(especially near a city-state). Athasians just don't cook as much.

Also, unless you live in Gulg, Nibenay or Tyr, you're going to cook less and have less furniture and wooden stuff. People on Athas in general have less things. They'd be like the people of ancient Sumeria. Only the wealth had furniture. The poor slept on mats on the floor; maybe they'd have a table passed down through the generations they prepared food on, but that's it.

However, Athas does have a fuel shortage. There's too many people and not enough fuel; the Athasian diet, while you can get by on fig and fruits, needs to be cooked; rice, wheat etc.
#17
xlorep_darkhelm
Jul 02, 2010 15:38:50 I think that they used dung for stoking fires, if memory serves. Nice, dung-flavored erdlu meat. Yup... that's just all kinds of tasty-sounding.
#18
RalofTyr
Jul 02, 2010 17:44:11 What are they going to use to fertilize the fields?
#19
phoenix_m
Jul 02, 2010 18:40:52 Duh, slaves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ancalimohtar Jun 24, 2010 14:38:35	If there are very few trees, there must be very little wood, right? Wood would be extremely expensive, wouldn't it? In the Tyr region, people don't really know about the gigantic forest on the other side of the mountains; in fact, those two cities fight over that one pathetic little forest. So what are tables made of? Chairs? Other furniture? Broomsticks? Handles for axes? Spatulas? Farm implements? Wagons? Spears? There's no way you could make these things with bone and stone. The sharp bits, maybe. The body of the object? No way. The scarcity of metal can be compensated for in the narrative of the setting if you have wood. Without wood, you are really screwed in being able to depict a realistic living situation. How is this explained in the setting?
#2 Sysane Jun 24, 2010 14:45:11	Bone, stone, and chitin would comprise most of the material used for common place objects. While not overly abundant, wood would still be available. There are small groves and plantations that exist just outside of the walls of most City-States. I'd imagine that the oasises that dot the Tyr region would also proved a source for wood.
#3 Arithezoo Jun 24, 2010 14:50:50	Did you just use the phrase "realistic living situation" to describe a fantasy setting? But seriously, Sysane is exactly right. For example, one of the popular axes is crafted from the jaw bone of a huge predator...pretty awesome if you ask me. If you are strongly bothered by the use of these materials to the point where you can't activate your suspension of disbelief you have two easy solutions: 1) In your Dark Sun game wood is more prevalent. For example, you could say that the Dead Forest supplies wood to the Tyr region. Its called the Dead Forest because the trees have no leaves...such things died out long ago in the region. Instead, they evolved a symbiotic relationship with various forms of fungi. 2) Don't play a Dark Sun game. There are plenty of other fantastic settings, so pick one and have a blast.
#4 Pennarin Jun 24, 2010 14:56:37	Bone spatulla, chair with leather fillet over a (fast-growing) bamboo structure. Actual wooden stuff is made of giant agafarri wood felled from the Crescent Forest. One can make dozens upon dozens of hard table tops with one trunk. Plus, wooden furniture is treated against dry rot on Athas, and owners take care of it. Maybe it doesn't cost as much as we think, but a city's laws force wooden furniture to be entrusted to a reseller upon death (without heirs) or bankruptcy or enslavement, making sure no one does crazy things with it, like burning or trashing it. Cities are already doing that with water, making sure even the poor can afford it, by establishing water markets.
#5 merchant_of_shadows Jun 24, 2010 15:07:20	I'd assume chairs can be woven from some desert alternative to reed when people dont just stand in hammoks or on pillows lieing on the ground. Tables can be made from stone. Considering there are plenty of huge lizard beasts - you will be surprised the body of how many objects can be done from their bones. Foor broomsticks - I assume that poor people will use only brooms, with no stick attached. Axe handles? I'd assume whole axes are made from scapula bones. There are people living in the deserts you know. They don't have a lot of wood or iron either. They don't even have chiting and obsidian and they still manage.
#6 sheepskate Jun 24, 2010 15:42:01	Woody fungi can be used, if common, I'm not sure, I know that's what drow are said to use instead of wood. Otherwise, the best option is bone, in fact, you could have it that the richest people use wood, while the poorer people use bone, therefore making wood a symbol of power....
#7 phoenix_m Jun 24, 2010 17:24:24	You can get an inferior wood-like structure from various cacti, there are plenty of cacti on Athas. With Merchant of Shadows' post I can also see lots of wicker furniture now.
#8 Terrainosaur Jun 25, 2010 15:17:55	Wicker. There are few trees, but plenty of plants.
#9 Raddu76 Jun 25, 2010 17:36:33	Cacti are not the only wood available in the desert. There's an oft overlooked terrain: Scrub Plain. As noted in Teos' article... "While even the most desolate desert landscape can conceal a surprising quantity of life, the Scrub Plains are very different than the typical Athasian terrain. These small areas of dry land are dotted by thorny brush, a variety of grasses, and thin trees. Cacti are present as well. (Deserts in Phoenix and California are often similar to the concept of scrub plains, though many areas in real world resemble this type.) Herders and hunters come to these lands of relative bounty. When a rare rain comes, the land explodes with colorful if short-lived flowers. This beauty is balanced by the prevalence of many cunning creatures, including the common Gith and Jozhal. Many will say the true threat is the druids that often protect the lands. If they judge those in their lands to overuse it, let alone defile it, their wrath can be quick and unforgiving. " To give real world example of more trees that live in the desert scrub plains we have, Palo Verde, Acacia, Mesquite, Desert Willow, Ocotillo, Palm trees to just name a few. Now those aren't thick trees, but you can definitely get decent quality weapon hafts, tools, furniture, and construction materials. Osage-orange is a tree that thrives in arid climates and makes just about the best bows in the americas, as well as being dense for native clubs.
#10 Terrainosaur Jun 25, 2010 17:39:43	This is what I like about Dark Sun. Experienced players who haven't experienced it yet ask questions like, "Are there trees?" The sense of wonder is back. That leaves a lot of room for good DMing.
#11 Alphastream Jun 25, 2010 18:50:19	Agreed, the wonder should always be there, even for players or DMs that know the setting. I had a lot of fun, after several years of DS, taking an ecology class and learning a bit about deserts. It is really easy to think about a desert as endless dunes (insert Sahara Hollywood footage here) instead of a desert the way most deserts are in the world - an arid landscape with low rainfall. You can look at Phoenix or California (compare Joshua Tree to Sahara, for example) or Utah or Colorado or even eastern Oregon (with plenty of trees but very arid). LA is in a desert, but survives with engineering and lots of water brought in and carefully (to modern extents) managed. You can also look to some parts of Africa for examples of what Gulg might be - trees, even forest, but with killer dry seasons. It is likely that in Gulg or Nibenay or in any Athasian estate you would be in severe trouble for cutting down anything tree-like without permission. With all of that in mind I think we can find some good reasons for why wood is not so incredibly rare, but why the typical Athasian trek is not filled with trees. Wood that is of high quality (the kind you use for large construction) would be rare, but wood sufficient to build a one-story building when you are surrounding the wood with stucco/adobe is not. If you want some realism, add bits about this to your game. Some ideas: Show a merchant with slaves gathering small pieces of cactus to dry and use as a wood. Show scavengers in scrub plains finding wood. Show templars in Gulg sentencing someone that pulled down a tree to death in the arena. Show a village hut being built with weak wood and strong brick (the mud being fired under the supervision of a priest/shaman of Fire) and contrast to a wealthy estate where the walls of an expansion have actual wooden beams and stucco around that.
#12 commissar Jun 25, 2010 19:38:54	Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable.
#13 Raddu76 Jun 25, 2010 21:38:40	Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable. From an old netproject...I believe. Broy - A mead made from fermented kank nectar. It is sometimes spiced and other times left unspiced. cost: 2 bits (one mug) Water-Broy - A watered down broy, which helps to slake one's thirst a bit more than thicker, sweeter broy. cost: 1 bit (one mug) Blue Cactus Ale - This cheap, heavy ale is made from the fruit of the grall cactus. cost: 1 bit (one mug) Beer - Common beer made from fermented grains. cost: 1 cp (one gallon) Scuppernong - Thick, bitter, and silvery-colored, scuppernong is the favored drink among elves. cost: 1 cp (one jug) Bulis Wine - Made from from fermented bulis berries, bulis wine has a bluish-purple color. It is rather inexpensive and is mainly purchased by the working class Athasians. cost: 1 cp (one jug) Asticles Wine - This tart, dry wine is favored among the nobility. It a very fine drink and as such is very expensive. cost: 8 sp (one bottle)
#14 Nyarlathotep Jun 27, 2010 20:37:45	Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable. They do if you (assuming you are your campaign's DM) say so.
#15 Alphastream Jul 01, 2010 14:43:48	Speaking of cacti, do they have blue agave on Athas? I was just thinking of something that would make daily life a little bit more tolerable. From an old netproject...I believe. Broy - A mead made from fermented kank nectar. It is sometimes spiced and other times left unspiced. cost: 2 bits (one mug) Water-Broy - A watered down broy, which helps to slake one's thirst a bit more than thicker, sweeter broy. cost: 1 bit (one mug) Blue Cactus Ale - This cheap, heavy ale is made from the fruit of the grall cactus. cost: 1 bit (one mug) Beer - Common beer made from fermented grains. cost: 1 cp (one gallon) Scuppernong - Thick, bitter, and silvery-colored, scuppernong is the favored drink among elves. cost: 1 cp (one jug) Bulis Wine - Made from from fermented bulis berries, bulis wine has a bluish-purple color. It is rather inexpensive and is mainly purchased by the working class Athasians. cost: 1 cp (one jug) Asticles Wine - This tart, dry wine is favored among the nobility. It a very fine drink and as such is very expensive. cost: 8 sp (one bottle) You know, my memory is no good, but part of me wants to say this is from the Dark Sun Online game that used to exist ages ago on the TEN network...
#16 RalofTyr Jul 02, 2010 13:34:27	Well, wood is less plentiful on Athas, however that has one effect; wood is commonly used to make fire; that's the number one use of wood. Sure, you can use scrubs and such, but there's only so much of that around(especially near a city-state). Athasians just don't cook as much. Also, unless you live in Gulg, Nibenay or Tyr, you're going to cook less and have less furniture and wooden stuff. People on Athas in general have less things. They'd be like the people of ancient Sumeria. Only the wealth had furniture. The poor slept on mats on the floor; maybe they'd have a table passed down through the generations they prepared food on, but that's it. However, Athas does have a fuel shortage. There's too many people and not enough fuel; the Athasian diet, while you can get by on fig and fruits, needs to be cooked; rice, wheat etc.
#17 xlorep_darkhelm Jul 02, 2010 15:38:50	I think that they used dung for stoking fires, if memory serves. Nice, dung-flavored erdlu meat. Yup... that's just all kinds of tasty-sounding.
#18 RalofTyr Jul 02, 2010 17:44:11	What are they going to use to fertilize the fields?
#19 phoenix_m Jul 02, 2010 18:40:52	Duh, slaves.