Greetings,
We are april 29th, 2010, 49 days from the release of the "new" Darksun setting.
1- Where are the links to all Darksun products on your main page? How do we get there? I just went there and couldnt find any place where DS is. (5 minutes later) aah found it! Geez, it's not normal to take 5 minutes to find where the D&D worlds are .
2- Where are the moderators or creators of this new campaign setting for 4th ed here, lurking on this board, discussing stuff with the fans, driving us crazy about it's upcoming release!?
3- Why have we a discussion board, on this community, that his hidden in the "Other published worlds" under the sub-forums section????? Should we have a place like Eberron or FR ??? We are near the DS 4.0 birth and the chamber for the baby isnt ready!?
4- Where's all the excitement about a new product coming in?
5- Where are the news related to the upcoming stuff?
6- Where is the staff??
7- GIVE US SOMETHING TO CHEW ON IF YOU ARE A SERIOUS COMPANY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------
Come on peoples, 51 days before the release. We should know something. Because 51 days before a release, books should normally be on print or near printing.
Show yourself if you dare
Do I really need to start spamming rich baker?
Hey dude, what the hell?
Where's my dark sun love?
Did you get fired?
Is 4e darksun really gonna be so good that any new info would spoiled teh sweetness, or did the haters do their job well enough to make the staff ignore the fans completely?
Tell us about themes! How many powers will a theme offer?
How many themes will there be?
Give us more examples on defiling.
Give us a teaser on a sorcerer king!
How with the environmental effects work?
Give us a teaser on a "new" race for DS. Like a dark sun flavored tiefling or shifter.
Toss us a bone here and give us a heads up on the athasian shadowfell!
Tell us about something that will NOT be officially supported in 4e DS, like a race or a feat. (excluding divine stuff, smart ****!)
Seriously, Rajaat being in the creature comp is nice, I like it, I appreciate it and I get it. But it's not the same. That whole thing is a popularity contest and Rajaat is a lonely athasian.
I have not seen anyone mention this yet, but since John Carter of Mars is one of the inspirations for Dark Sun, I stumbled across this on the internet. The movie currently being made.
www.jcofmars.com/
I don't usually get excited about campaign settings, as I like to homebrew a lot. I might borrow a book from someone else to pillage ideas, but that's usually it.
Dark Sun is the first campaign setting that's got me interested in not only looking through books owned by my friends, but buying them for myself. I think I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating in case any WotC staff read it: I'd renew my Insider subscription to see Dark Sun previews! (Otherwise, I don't have any plans to renew until Dark Sun updates are available for the Character Builder.) And it looks like I'm not the only one thirsting for Dark Sun info!
In a few more days we should see the May article schedule, and I really hope there's some Dark Sun on the way.
Dark Sun-related products don't really start hitting the shelves until June with the Dungeon Tiles: Athas and MM3... so I might expect to have to wait another month to a month and a half before we start seeing some serious previews. They'd better have something juicey at that point...
The cool thing is that Psionic Power will be coming out at the same time as the rest of the Dark Sun products... in August.
But seriously, they could be teasing us with something...
I'm now extremely worried that Dark Sun is going to be 3 books full of useless and meaningful material that doesn't make any sense at all.
This is what I have been expecting all along, at least when I found out how they are changing the setting to fit the latest edition. I don't want to start an edition war because I haven't even played since before the new millenium, lol. The main thing that drew me to DS was that everything was different from normal AD&D. I just don't think they can recapture the things that made DS great while watering it down to fit a particular rule set(IMO).I will be ecstatic if I have to eat my words but judging by the rambling of Rich Bakers DS blog I doubt it. Also, the lack of Brom (and Diesel)= FAIL in my book. Please prove me wrong Wizards! In reality it doesn't much matter to me though, I am strictly a collector/DS superfan at this point.
We are april 27th, 2010, 51 days from the release of the "new" Darksun setting.
51 days is not a lot. If I want to start playing immediately, I'd really want to start putting together the starting pieces of a campaign together now. Without ANY previews... it's REALLY hard to do that. I can only guess which cities will be in the setting, which monsters and traps, which sorcerer kings.
Previews get me excited about a general campaign storyline direction! Without a storyline, I just wait and don't plan anything. Without plans, my first 4E DS campaign will suck. If my campaign sucks, I won't like DS. So give me previews earlier rather than later!
Wizards: anytime you want to start releasing some previews, I'll start organizing my campaign. Until then... I shall only glower in Seattle's general direction.
So where's the buzz? Where're the previews? All we get is the occasional "here's why I redrew the map" or something.
If you've got 2-3 books chock full of ground-breaking gaming goodness, give already! Surely it won't diminish the totality of the hoard by letting out a few nuggets? You know, just to keep us interested?
I agree, it's weird. DS is what is actually luring me into the world of 4E... I think that's probably true for a lot of people.
So where's the buzz? Where're the previews? All we get is the occasional "here's why I redrew the map" or something.
If you've got 2-3 books chock full of ground-breaking gaming goodness, give already! Surely it won't diminish the totality of the hoard by letting out a few nuggets? You know, just to keep us interested?
I've got a hunch that someone reminded the WotC staff that Dark Sun is one of the worlds where you find a lot more bare skin, and books with girls showing bare skin tend to attract attention more than books showing girls in field plate with a burgonet. So they might be trying to make the release less flashy than past ones as a way to minimize the impending abreaction.
Thank you everybody, I expected that you folks would fill the blank in my arguments with a lots of worried thoughts and ideas. I'm no english speaking native, but I'd like to read something new (aka Darksun goodness) to interest me in reading english even more! WAKE UP WotC DS editors!!!!!
I've been complaining about this for weeks. I guess I just needed to express more outrage, ;)
You make a great point that I haven't before, why the hell is Dark Sun in the ghetto of "Other Worlds" right now? We're nearing major release and Dark Sun is still exiled out of sight.
I think it is ominous that we're seeing little. I think it is telling that the Dark Sun blog rarely blogs about Dark Sun. I hope I am wrong.
You make a great point that I haven't before, why the hell is Dark Sun in the ghetto of "Other Worlds" right now? We're nearing major release and Dark Sun is still exiled out of sight.
I'm hoping this means we weren't really forgotten: [Community Business thread]
I always got the impression that it was during the month before a new release we really see the previews. Not so?
FR was released in August 2008 while Eberron was June 2009. A lot of the FR excerpts didn't come out until June and July of '08, but then, 4E was just out the door.
However, in June 2008, a full year before Eberron was out, we got some Eberron content: setting conversion for Keep on the Shadowfell, the Forest of Flesh Expeditionary Dispatch article, and even a playable warfogred race. In September there was another Expeditionary Dispatch for Eberron (Janus Gull). October brought an Eberron-specific town in the Graywall subscriber-only article, and another Expeditionary Dispatch, Stillwater Station. January 2009, still six months away from release, the Origin Stories subscriber-only article provided information on adding genasi from FR to Eberron, and adding warforged from Eberron to FR.
So with six months to go, Eberron fans had seven articles of 4E Eberron content (not including adventures that might have offered Eberron hooks). Admittedly, I don't know anything about Eberron other than the warforged race, but that setting icon was available a whole year in advance; and a fairly steady stream of environs and their monsters was also being released. While I could be wrong, it looks to me like Eberron was pretty playable.
While I recently organized what's been revealed about 4E Dark Sun, all we can use are the few themes that were previewed (and someone was awesome enough to reverse-engineer a thri-kreen). We haven't been offered (to my knowledge) adventure hooks to give a Dungeon adventure a Dark Sun twist or feel (although a few pages into this forum someone undertook that task themself). We don't have any monster stat-blocks (and there are enough monsters to warrant their own book). We don't have a setting-specific town or adventuring site. No "Thri-kreen in the Realms" crossover article. A lot of information is still "we could go this way or that way before we're done" based on months-old blog posts.
However, we're a few days away from this month ending, and then we can check out the content calendar for May. This despair will seem a bit silly if we find even a couple of Dark Sun articles scheduled. 
Or, what might really tide folks over, is the full "Death in the Arena" preview adventure. I don't know if any cons are still running it/will run it, though. It'd be a cheap but likely effective way to sate our Dark Sun thirst, since the adventure is already made and has been played by plenty of people already.
There is the mod for freeRPG Day.
and, well, this crit seems unwarrented. Sure it may suck anyway, but, really?
"
Wizards of the Coast
Platinum (15 per box), Dark Sun 4th Edition D&D Adventure
"
Are all 15 the same? I hope they each have alternate endings ...
Now if only I could figure out why the line breaks are broken in my last post so people might see how much time I've got on my hands...
Until the set comes out, there probably won't be a specific section like the others since there is nothing but speculation and a few nuggets of information at the moment. FR and Eberron had their own threads left over from 3E so it's not like they created them for the release of those products. As for the previews, WOTC has been previewing thier new books only a month in advance, so being 3 months out why would they change this? They have treated the folks who have visited the recent cons to a preview of DS, and Free RPG Day will have a give away DS adventure, but other than that we will have to wait for previews just like all the other products.
Your math is off, the release date for Dark Sun is August 17th, 110 days away from April 29th 2010
For an unknown reason, I was under the impression that it was on june 17th.
I'm no longer complaining. I want my free adventure in June.
I hope you have a participating FLGS, mine isn't doing it this year....
Greetings,
We are april 29th, 2010, 49 days from the release of the "new" Darksun setting.
1- Where are the links to all Darksun products on your main page? How do we get there? I just went there and couldnt find any place where DS is. (5 minutes later) aah found it! Geez, it's not normal to take 5 minutes to find where the D&D worlds are .
2- Where are the moderators or creators of this new campaign setting for 4th ed here, lurking on this board, discussing stuff with the fans, driving us crazy about it's upcoming release!?
3- Why have we a discussion board, on this community, that his hidden in the "Other published worlds" under the sub-forums section????? Should we have a place like Eberron or FR ??? We are near the DS 4.0 birth and the chamber for the baby isnt ready!?
4- Where's all the excitement about a new product coming in?
5- Where are the news related to the upcoming stuff?
6- Where is the staff??
7- GIVE US SOMETHING TO CHEW ON IF YOU ARE A SERIOUS COMPANY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------------
Come on peoples, 51 days before the release. We should know something. Because 51 days before a release, books should normally be on print or near printing.
Show yourself if you dare
Personally, I was saddened that WoTC chose such a poor choice for the new campaign setting. In my opinion, Darksun was just a sorry excuse for a Dune rip off. But hey, each to their own.
As far as your reaction to the fact that things at their company aren't running as the way you would see them run - sorry pal its not your call. You have nothing to do but the two things the rest of us have to do - hope and wait.
Personally, like I said previously, I was never a fan of Dark Sun. That world in my opinion should have stayed dead and buried like so many other 2nd edition worlds. If I had my vote (and MANY others agree with me), Ravenloft is the one that SHOULD have been chosen. Again, each to their own.
I for one have been waiting for almost 2 years for WoTC to release my damn necromancer class. Month after month passes, and nothing. For what used to be a core class (yes, it was a specialist WIZARD but still a WIZARD), they have decided for some reason to take my beloved class and bury it and I won't even know if they will EVER release it for this edition. Oh sure, we have seen the little articles about "just reflavor it" - bull ****...so believe me I fully understand your frustration. But I'm telling you sure as I'm typing this message now....Wizards of the Coast will do as it pleases. If they continue to piss people off by saying one thing and doing another which is their reputation about so many things this edition, they will simply kill the game or worse - turn it into another worthless MMO.
What's this MMO you speak of?
The rest of your rant is third rate. Comparing 4e to an MMORPG is a knee jerk reaction to WotC's own early announcement that 4e would take inspiration from MMORPGs, which inspired themselves from 3e to begin with. That you managed to hold dear to the comparison in your mind since how many years that 4e has existed is extraordinary.
And, I believe, that going to a setting forum and saying their beloved setting should not have been chosen by WotC is baiting as per the CoC.
Go away, 16 posts since 2010 troll.
What, besides a desert setting, does Dune and Dark Sun have in common?
Psionics. Underclass uprising. Two Moons each. Houses vying for dominance. Badass giant wyrms.
The desert thing goes far, in terms of rationalizing similarities.
Second, it seems you are right here when saying they do as the please. I've been talking to the biggest RPG shop in Quebec, Canada boss and he was told me that Wizards was really beginning to piss him off.
The shop want to have D&D event to show the D&D products (to sell more, of course), but they are in a big mall. Wizards told them that they need to put their event on Saturday after 5pm (if memory serve) or when the mall is closed. They said it was the only place they wanted to put this event.
The RPG shop managed was having a lots of quarrels with them. He was seriously thinking to cancel his affiliation with WotC. Since this shop as a great importance in the whole Quebec, this may sign that Wizards might end up loosing more than they thought.
I would, for myself, turn on another RPG rather than been unable to evaluate the books.
Anyway. I just hope my english wasnt too bad
PS- Ravenloft was there before White Wolf if memory serves, so the copy is the other way around.
Sorry to hear your FLGS is having issues with WOTC, but it doesn't sound like the information is correct. I work very close with the owner of my FLGS and run his WWGD events for him and there has never been any mention of a time constraint. We cannot run the Encounters because it's mandatory on Wednesdays and everyone interested works during the day, so he would have to open the shop later, which he doesn't mind, but that's the night he has set aside for his family and cannot stay. Other than that, the events may happen any time as long as it's on the day assigned.
PS- Ravenloft was there before White Wolf if memory serves, so the copy is the other way around.
It sound like the information is correct because I spoke with him directly. And yes, there is a time constraint. And anyway, why should stick with a day assigned if it doesnt work with the shop? That's pathetic.
And for your PS: Yes it was before, but what happen to the Ford Model T ? He dissapeared for a better model. Why do we use new computers instead of our old one? Because there is more option and it have a better look. Same for Ravenloft vs White Wolf, the last one been better and more well done.
As to the silence of WoTC with Dark Sun stuff, I think it's dissapointing. However, I doubt it has anythilng to do with the quality of the product at all.
The other settings got more hype earlier because they were essentally intros to 4e in general. Eberron had to have material early on to convince Eberron players to switch over to 4e despite the large number of 3e Eberron books that had'nt even lost that 'new book smell' yet. Obviously that won't be a problem with Dark Sun. As a matter of fact my Dark Sun books are starting to aquire that 'old book smell'.
I suspect that over the next month we will see things start to tricke in, then there will be lots more towards the end of June and all through July.
P.S.
Dark Sun only has the most superficial links to Dune. However, it clearly owes much to the John Carter novels.
Sorry to hear your FLGS is having issues with WOTC, but it doesn't sound like the information is correct. I work very close with the owner of my FLGS and run his WWGD events for him and there has never been any mention of a time constraint. We cannot run the Encounters because it's mandatory on Wednesdays and everyone interested works during the day, so he would have to open the shop later, which he doesn't mind, but that's the night he has set aside for his family and cannot stay. Other than that, the events may happen any time as long as it's on the day assigned.
PS- Ravenloft was there before White Wolf if memory serves, so the copy is the other way around.
It sound like the information is correct because I spoke with him directly. And yes, there is a time constraint. And anyway, why should stick with a day assigned if it doesnt work with the shop? That's pathetic.
And for your PS: Yes it was before, but what happen to the Ford Model T ? He dissapeared for a better model. Why do we use new computers instead of our old one? Because there is more option and it have a better look. Same for Ravenloft vs White Wolf, the last one been better and more well done.
If possible, could you get a copy of the guidelines from the store telling them they had to conduct the event after 5PM local time and scan it for us to see? Until then, I don't believe it since I've read the WOTC to Retailer material on events and there was nothing about time, other than suggestions for optimum attendence.
As for the PS, my point is that the original cannot copy something that came after it.
As for the PS, my point is that the original cannot copy something that came after it.
Just wait until we get a quantum magic supplement, and you'll eat your words. Or not. But with quantum magic both could be true at the same time. And perhaps literally, as well.
Personally, I was saddened that WoTC chose such a poor choice for the new campaign setting.
Two whole champions and they still missed one.
Slackers.
What, besides a desert setting, does Dune and Dark Sun have in common?
Psionics. Underclass uprising. Two Moons each. Houses vying for dominance. Badass giant wyrms.
The desert thing goes far, in terms of rationalizing similarities.
Dark Sun has a lot more in common with Barsoom than Dune, however.
Two whole champions and they still missed one.
Slackers.
ROFLMAO
I always felt like Dark Sun was a post-apocalyptic Forgotten Realms, so I always associated it more with The Road Warrior, Fist of the North Star, Blade Runner, or Shadowgate. It virtually bleeds what the 1980's said was 'edgy'. Certainly David Lych's Dune has some similarities, but the later miniseries Dune (which I think is closer to the novel) is much less dystopian.
The Dune series (the books, I never saw the miniseries and can't stand the movie) is more like "the messiah has come to save the universe, and he shall start his campaign from Arrakis!"
Show
He goes on to conquer the universe and I think as early as the second book Paul is noticing how people already have "water fat" following the transformation of Arrakis. By the fourth book, the desert is artificially preserved for the breeding of sand worms and the testing of Leto II's descendants. So it's more like the reverse of Athas, which is dying and shows no signs of getting better.
"Do not meddle in affairs of the little folk, for thou are crunchy and tase good with ketchup."
but there's one thing I really get tired of hearing, and here I have to disagree. Don't want to sidetrack the topic, but...
The rest of your rant is third rate. Comparing 4e to an MMORPG is a knee jerk reaction to WotC's own early announcement that 4e would take inspiration from MMORPGs, which inspired themselves from 3e to begin with.
Maybe for him. For me, it's mainly because:
- classes reorganised as tanks, dps, aoe dps and healer.
- all characters heal naturally by short rest, and fully heal by complete rest
- all classes get class powers as levels go up, and all classes at the same rate (or just about, if you count first level amount of powers which can vary)
- nearly all character abilities reorganised as combat abilities
- monsters now have elite and boss versions.
- higher level powers have downgraded damage to require multiple use of powers on enemies.
- standard system for NPC quest givers and rewards
- suggested "quest cards" system in DMG
- monster statistics which raise with level without any relevance to creature's actual abilities (ex. high reflex defense for large, slow and dumb monsters)
I'm sure I forget a bunch of other stuff, but to top it off.
- new expansion raised level cap by 10.
:p
Re: Everything else:
Show
Class roles are not a new concept to D&D, and were around in 1974. From the Men & Magic booklet: "survival is often the question, unless fighters protect the low-level magical types until they have worked up." In other words: defender role. Cleric was just healer, less versatile than leader. Magic-user was your "keep him alive long enough to learn fireball" role.
Healing does not mean the repair of physical damage; for example, a priest at Antioch in the First Crusade convinced the soldiers that they had found the Spear of Destiny. Hungry, thirsty, and physically worn from the effort of reaching and taking Antioch, they were zealously inspired (healed) and repelled the Turks who wanted the city back. Granted, they went on to complete the crusade and commit more atrocities, but it's still a more interesting history than "they accepted their sorry state and gave up."
Having classes gain powers at the same rate means that I can throw level-appropriate monsters at a party because no one is falling behind on power progression. I hate parties of mixed levels, but in 3.5E I'd have to make sure certain characters were a certain level so that no one would be hanging back or sitting it out because they weren't up to par mechanically despite their level.
In AD&D (1e/2e) the non-combat abilities were almost always just a feature of class or race, you either had it just by being what you were, or you didn't. (Exceptions being magic users with their spell lists, or supplements that introduced non-combat proficiencies... which still used your normal proficiency slots.) 3.5E continued the "if you're good at fishing then you have to give up the ability to be good at something else, even if it's more important to adventuring like spellcraft." The 4E skill list covers anything you might want to do (and if you can't decide on which skill or something, just fall back to an attribute). How you use that skill is up to both the player and the DM, cooperatively, to accomplish whatever they think is appropriate.
There have always been tougher/special versions of some monsters. Making it easier to turn a monster stat block you have into a leader or special variant for a group of monsters is a good thing; so is being able to quickly identify which monster you should pick for that purpose. The Monster Manual is intended to be a DM resource, and a starting point - not the end-all, be-all. Even if your players have a copy of it, they shouldn't know what they're dealing with beyond what you describe and establish in the game.
There have always been systems for adventure hooks, and there have always been systems for selecting and distributing rewards. I still give out whatever I want whenever I want, of course.
If I recall correctly, the "quest cards" aren't much different from writing down a quest's progress, except the important points of the quest are already identified. This is good, even necessary, for groups where no one likes being the chronicler, so that a DM doesn't have to recap everything if their group goes a while without playing, or if players/DMs are part of multiple campaigns.
Regarding large and typically slow creatures with reflex, have you ever watched a Godzilla movie? One where it's Godzilla vs. Some-Other-Giant-Monster? They don't just dodge each other, though; missiles, alien space ships, and other fast-moving attacks. Is it real life? No. Do I accept it for what it is? Yes.
Finally, I'm unaware of any level-cap-raising; is that in PHB3? At least it's better than dedicating a whole source book to a new level range. Or dedicating a whole source book per campaign setting (that supported it) for a new level range, like in 2e.
Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further but have nothing more on-topic.
Healing does not mean the repair of physical damage; for example, a priest at Antioch in the First Crusade convinced the soldiers that they had found the Spear of Destiny. Hungry, thirsty, and physically worn from the effort of reaching and taking Antioch, they were zealously inspired (healed) and repelled the Turks who wanted the city back. Granted, they went on to complete the crusade and commit more atrocities, but it's still a more interesting history than "they accepted their sorry state and gave up."
Having classes gain powers at the same rate means that I can throw level-appropriate monsters at a party because no one is falling behind on power progression. I hate parties of mixed levels, but in 3.5E I'd have to make sure certain characters were a certain level so that no one would be hanging back or sitting it out because they weren't up to par mechanically despite their level.
In AD&D (1e/2e) the non-combat abilities were almost always just a feature of class or race, you either had it just by being what you were, or you didn't. (Exceptions being magic users with their spell lists, or supplements that introduced non-combat proficiencies... which still used your normal proficiency slots.) 3.5E continued the "if you're good at fishing then you have to give up the ability to be good at something else, even if it's more important to adventuring like spellcraft." The 4E skill list covers anything you might want to do (and if you can't decide on which skill or something, just fall back to an attribute). How you use that skill is up to both the player and the DM, cooperatively, to accomplish whatever they think is appropriate.
There have always been tougher/special versions of some monsters. Making it easier to turn a monster stat block you have into a leader or special variant for a group of monsters is a good thing; so is being able to quickly identify which monster you should pick for that purpose. The Monster Manual is intended to be a DM resource, and a starting point - not the end-all, be-all. Even if your players have a copy of it, they shouldn't know what they're dealing with beyond what you describe and establish in the game.
There have always been systems for adventure hooks, and there have always been systems for selecting and distributing rewards. I still give out whatever I want whenever I want, of course.
If I recall correctly, the "quest cards" aren't much different from writing down a quest's progress, except the important points of the quest are already identified. This is good, even necessary, for groups where no one likes being the chronicler, so that a DM doesn't have to recap everything if their group goes a while without playing, or if players/DMs are part of multiple campaigns.
Regarding large and typically slow creatures with reflex, have you ever watched a Godzilla movie? One where it's Godzilla vs. Some-Other-Giant-Monster? They don't just dodge each other, though; missiles, alien space ships, and other fast-moving attacks. Is it real life? No. Do I accept it for what it is? Yes.
Finally, I'm unaware of any level-cap-raising; is that in PHB3? At least it's better than dedicating a whole source book to a new level range. Or dedicating a whole source book per campaign setting (that supported it) for a new level range, like in 2e.
Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further but have nothing more on-topic.
Maybe for him. For me, it's mainly because:
- classes reorganised as tanks, dps, aoe dps and healer.
- all characters heal naturally by short rest, and fully heal by complete rest
- all classes get class powers as levels go up, and all classes at the same rate (or just about, if you count first level amount of powers which can vary)
- nearly all character abilities reorganised as combat abilities
- monsters now have elite and boss versions.
- higher level powers have downgraded damage to require multiple use of powers on enemies.
- standard system for NPC quest givers and rewards
- suggested "quest cards" system in DMG
- monster statistics which raise with level without any relevance to creature's actual abilities (ex. high reflex defense for large, slow and dumb monsters)
I'm sure I forget a bunch of other stuff, but to top it off.
- new expansion raised level cap by 10.
:p
And yet, even though taking inspiration from MMO games that were in turn inspired by itself, D&D does not play like those games unless, of course, you play it that way (and there is nothing wrong with your playing that way, either).
2e combat always felt stale to me. I hit, I miss, I hit again. Not much you could really do to make the fights more exciting, unless you do something out of the ordinary. Like grab your opponent and jump off a cliff, using his body as a shield for the ground impact. Now that was fun. But you essentially would protect the healer, he heals you and then every man for himself. There wasn't much structure.
3e made combat a bit more exciting with the addition of Feats, but what made battle make a bit more sense was the simplified form of movement and Standard Actions/Move Actions. You understood more of what your role was on the battlefield per class.
MMO's came out some time in the 3e days, introducing to us the terms "Tanks and DPS." Because video games had to be, they gave specific roles to each of their classes which makes "team work" essential for success.
Enter 4e, which works very similar to the MMO theories of combat and I have to tell you that I think it's fantastic. Combat is so much more dynamic than what it use to be because everybody is doing something. No more 1st level "I cast magic missle, then pull out my sling." No more, "I cast Cure Light Wounds. Who needs the next one?" Now we have, "I'll pin the Ogre against the corner, while you guys kill his minions." and "I'll cast Healing Word and attack the archer which also allows you to use a healing surge." or "I attack the soldier and slide him one square giving you a flank." Now that's fun stuff.
Regarding Epic and Solo creatures being "mini bosses" or just a plain "boss" of a level in a dungeon. How many times have we seen in movies where it took the entire party of heroes to down the one Vampire, or evil beast? Now we have those epic fights. Just last week I was running the Barthus, Vampire of Bane encounter in the F.R. adventure "The Scepter Tower of Spellguard" and it was absolutely epic. He's a Solo and the PC's expended everything they had and were on the verge of going down before they beat him. Took them 2 1/2 hrs to down him. It was just bad ass and everybody was smiling at the end. The new "MMO" rules as some put them help make those encounters just that more EPIC.
D&D is not as well supported way out here, but I hope I'll get to download this DS adventure from WotC, so I can run it for my folks. Until then, I'm content to run my short game based on the events of the Verdant Passage, which I believe introduces Dark Sun to our group well.
MMO's came out some time in the 3e days, introducing to us the terms "Tanks and DPS." Because video games had to be, they gave specific roles to each of their classes which makes "team work" essential for success.
I think the roles were created by WOW, actually. I came off of Ragnarok Online, where there were no such roles. Monsters had no threat tables, and there was no kind of mark to make the monsters keep attacking one target. Either they did, and would get killed very fast, or they would go after the last thing to hit them. Most parties consisted of at least 50% priests and 50% "other stuff." Oh, and you'd find the occasional alchemist healer, but they were extremely rare.
Now, there were "pullers" in some fields and dungeons, who would go and grab several monsters and bring them back to the party, but that wasn't tanking at all.
After playing such games I could see stuff D&D desperately needed to pick up on, and as has been said, 4th ed gameplay is much more fun and rewarding, at least for me, especially as DM!
anyway, on Dark Sun, probably have too may demands from company lawyers to keep release stuff "tight" etc
(and of you who've done beta testing etc will know)Now THIS is my idea of Athas...
Anyone remember Kalidnay in Ravenloft? Weird.
Actually, I use the ruins of Kalidnay as a connection to the Demiplane of Dread, one that the Powers of Ravenloft can reach out and snatch unsuspecting travelers and bring them into their realm.
- Tuesday the 4th: "In the Works" is a possible place for Dark Sun to be mentioned
- Wednesday the 5th: "Spotlight Interview" could hopefully be with a Dark Sun developer; "Ampersand" is another place to at least plug Dark Sun, even if it's just mentioned in passing
- Tuesday the 11th: "Alumni" might feature a mention of Dark Sun (I just found out that they did this in April with the Psionics alumni article!)
- Friday the 14th: There's a "Play Report" article; these feature things from playtests, right? Hopefully they've been testing Dark Sun and can share something.
- Wednesday the 19th: Another "Spotlight Interview"
- Tuesday the 25th: Another "Alumni" opportunity
www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/4...
Scroll down to June about Dungeon and Dragon magazine.
Happy Star Wars Day!
turlough
It might not be this month, but a parallel column for Dark Sun gearing up still a couple months before release should be an attention-getter. I'm wondering if this is what Rich meant when he said he couldn't say it'd get something like an adventure a month but that it would definitely have Insider support.
What, besides a desert setting, does Dune and Dark Sun have in common? God I hate it when people make ridiculous comparisons like that. There are zero specific similarities between those two settings except for geography.
Hey, have you read any of the "FR is just a lame dying world like dark sun now! waaaah! where's my blankyyyy!!!!111????" threads?
You get used to this sort of thing after a while.
Hey, have you read any of the "FR is just a lame dying world like dark sun now! waaaah! where's my blankyyyy!!!!111????" threads?
You get used to this sort of thing after a while.
Nope. I try to stay as clear of the Realms as I can, unless they have something I like. Like the Genasi.
FR isn't dying by any means, at least from what I remember from reading borrowed copies. Its just not the happy happy fun fun world that it was before with that clown Volo prancing from region to region, or Drizzt being its Chuck Norris. Except Drizzt doesn't have a beard to hide that extra fist under...
You can tell I really like the Realms.
FR isn't dying by any means,
Maybe the in-game world isn't dying, but its reputation has gone from "clichéd magic-saturated super-setting" to, well, the nicest way to put it is "FUBAR."
happy happy fun fun joy joy
Fixed that for you. (Warning: Link is not safe for the sane, elderly, or expectant mothers.)
Hey, have you read any of the "FR is just a lame dying world like dark sun now! waaaah! where's my blankyyyy!!!!111????" threads?
You get used to this sort of thing after a while.
Nope. I try to stay as clear of the Realms as I can, unless they have something I like. Like the Genasi.
FR isn't dying by any means, at least from what I remember from reading borrowed copies. Its just not the happy happy fun fun world that it was before with that clown Volo prancing from region to region, or Drizzt being its Chuck Norris. Except Drizzt doesn't have a beard to hide that extra fist under...
You can tell I really like the Realms.
Lol fair enough.
I like it a great deal more now than I did in previous editions.
For instance, I really like the sort of cold war between Netheril and Cormyr and it's allies.
FR isn't dying by any means,
Maybe the in-game world isn't dying, but its reputation has gone from "clichéd magic-saturated super-setting" to, well, the nicest way to put it is "FUBAR."
For some people, sure. Most gamers I know thinks it's just a better game setting now. The only people I know personally who are angry about it are the couple people I know who have read just about every pre-4e novel, read about what changed in 4e or read a dnd friend's copy of the new sourcebooks, and have maybe read one or two books since then.
The rest of us feel that the improvements outway any change we don't like.
But, let's not derail a DS thread too much. :P
All we need now is for the D&D Worlds forums to be slightly re-organized so they don't look like such a mess, and for Dark Sun to be moved to a more prominent position. I have no idea how long that will take but it's been suggested to me that it was "to do" even before I brought it up in Community Business.
All we need now is . . .
I'm of the opinion that they should dump Rich Baker as the Dark Sun blogger and give it to someone who would like to share with folks what's on their mind about Dark Sun more often than one post every two months. Heck give it to an intern interested in making an impact!
I know I'm one of those who would love the blog to be a source of drip and drops of revealing teasers. We're not even getting that. You know, just show up and post a few sentences as you are leaving the office.
Just sayin'.
I'm of the opinion that they should dump Rich Baker as the Dark Sun blogger and give it to someone who would like to share with folks what's on their mind about Dark Sun more often than one post every two months. Heck give it to an intern interested in making an impact!
I know I'm one of those who would love the blog to be a source of drip and drops of revealing teasers. We're not even getting that. You know, just show up and post a few sentences as you are leaving the office.
Just sayin'.
I think it's rather dangerous to blame Rich Baker for anything without knowing what kind of protocols he has to follow to get his blog out. My former university threatens disciplinary action for blogging about it without written permission from I forget which dean; and I don't just mean trash-talking. If his hands are tied then I'd hate for posts like this to possibly come up in a performance review. A lot of WotC's actions suggest to me that the company as a whole is overburdened by bureaucracy.
I know they are tied down for the things they can reveal before the product is in people's hands. But frankly, why the hell have a blog promoting it then if things said must go through committee?
Thing is I don't believe it's because Mr. Baker is being hamstrung about what he can say. I think it is that he has moved on to other projects so his interest and attention is there, not with Dark Sun which was something he probably hasn't looked at in many many months. Thus my point that I wish the feature of a Dark Sun blog could be given to someone like an intern, someone who wasn't distracted by a more pressing project.
Also, implying that things have to go through committee (as opposed to being vetted by a superior or marketing) shows a lack of knowledge about how a company like WotC works.
I think the best way for you to manage your disappointment would be to have realistic expectations that are based on fact, not your feelings.
When a company has just laid off a bunch of people, they generally don't have interns sitting around ready to do what you're asking, since less people have to take up more tasks after layoffs.
Right.
Because 2 weeks ago they were laying people off. And a month ago they were doing more of the same. And 6 weeks ago there were more layoffs. What happened in this past week has any bearing on what's (could have) been going on almost every day these past 6 months.
Also, implying that things have to go through committee (as opposed to being vetted by a superior or marketing) shows a lack of knowledge about how a company like WotC works.
Concluding that I'm asking for anything that has to go through any other employee shows a lack of imagination about what can be talked about within the guidelines.
Likewise, are you saying those WotC employee tweets are going through marketing or a supervisor first? Interesting.
I think the best way for you to manage your disappointment would be to have realistic expectations that are based on fact, not your feelings.
What are those facts, Mr. Inside WotC? Because every time I've ever seen anyone say as much as you just did was more or less a clever way of telling someone else to "shut up" without saying "shut up".
Are the WotC Forums a "No Complaining About WotC" zone? *rolls eyes* :D
Likewise, are you saying those WotC employee tweets are going through marketing or a supervisor first? Interesting.
Having done some minor work in the gaming industry, yes, I would say that they have to be circumspect about what they say. Most, if not all, people doing any kind of this work are working under a non-disclosure act and can not say more than they are allowed. Saying more than they are allowed would put them in violation of it.
Likewise, are you saying those WotC employee tweets are going through marketing or a supervisor first? Interesting.
Having done some minor work in the gaming industry, yes, I would say that they have to be circumspect about what they say.
Being circumspect (which I expect) is not the same as running each tweet by another employee. If this is the case, there must be a fully employeed second set of eyes because there are a lot of blog posts and tweets by WotC employees other than Rich Baker that are getting reviewed for NDA compliance. ;)
Being circumspect (which I expect) is not the same as running each tweet by another employee. If this is the case, there must be a fully employeed second set of eyes because there are a lot of blog posts and tweets by WotC employees other than Rich Baker that are getting reviewed for NDA compliance. ;)
What is it that you expect from them at this point? Other than rumours and innuendo, only WotC can allow anyone to state anything with any certainty. We will see more previews as the time of release draws closer. I can understand your wanting more but what do you think you are going to achieve beyond pointing out your anticipation, something shared by many of us?
I don't expect that there are a group of people reviewing blogs or tweets as the forum members do a pretty good job of that. Anything revealing more than it should would probably make its self known pretty quick considering how closely a lot of these blogs are watched by forum goers.
What is it that you expect from them at this point? Other than rumours and innuendo, only WotC can allow anyone to state anything with any certainty. We will see more previews as the time of release draws closer. I can understand your wanting more but what do you think you are going to achieve beyond pointing out your anticipation, something shared by many of us?
I don't expect that there are a group of people reviewing blogs or tweets as the forum members do a pretty good job of that. Anything revealing more than it should would probably make its self known pretty quick considering how closely a lot of these blogs are watched by forum goers.
Well, they could do like what GW did five or six years ago by using a photobomb to release what an upcoming army book for Warhammer 40k was. Someone included a poster showing playtest results for the Witch Hunter codex in a totally unrelated battle report photo in White Dwarf magazine.
So yeah, there's more ways to leak things than you'd think. Its just WotC is keeping things close to their chest during the run-up to the release.
Check out this months Content Calendar, July 12th starts the Free Excerpts.