| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1Zackmack75May 31, 2010 20:02:54 | Hey Gang, I've been trying to find a reference to "snakemen" in DS. I have a fair amount of Tuan-Ti minis and I am planning to use them. What I'm looking for is a reference in any of the old books or on athas.org that mentions a race similar to the Yuan-Ti. I figured they're smart enough that they wouldn't necessarily gotten slaughtered like Kobolds and other lizardmen by the SK's. Any suggestions? Thanks so much! |
| #2digglesMay 31, 2010 20:19:34 | How are you planning on implementing their culture? What do they do without a god to worship? |
| #3ian.thomsonMay 31, 2010 20:29:19 | Both the original and revised manuals mention them as appropriate monsters, and their language is still extant, so they're obviously not super rare. |
| #4Zackmack75May 31, 2010 21:08:25 | Cool! Thank you for the link. I like the idea that they're still around and are limited to remote temples. One of my players was toying with playing one. I may allow a Yuan-Ti Monk as a player character. I'll just let him use the Githyanki stats to build him. |
| #5603May 31, 2010 21:32:19 |
Wow. I wonder what their source material is for that whole Primal Drake business. |
| #6Zackmack75May 31, 2010 22:04:52 | The way I've always interpreted DS is that there have always been cults and religious sects that worshiped deities. It's just that the deities were never powerful enough to create the Divine power source. So the fact that the Yuan-Ti are a group of religious monks who worship the Primal Serpent as a god works well enough for me to use them. My biggest worry was that they were wiped out entirely by a Sorcerer King and I'd have to ret-con a ton of material inhouse in order to use them. |
| #7digglesMay 31, 2010 22:32:24 | I"m kinda getting the Thulsadoom type cult from Conan the Barbarian that worshiped a big snake! |
| #8PennarinJun 01, 2010 0:11:07 |
Which is...the unofficial unofficial wiki. Did I say unofficial? Make that extra unofficial. There. For those wondering, I never saw a hint of yuan-ti culture mentioned in DS, nor do I recall ever seeing a yuan-ti as a monster as part of an adventure. Maybe there's a community in UnderTyr, one would need to check City-State of Tyr for a reference. AFAIK the only yuan-ti reference is a name in the acceptable monster list. |
| #9jimsmaherJun 01, 2010 3:37:35 | Based on their singular DS reference in a random encounter table: When traveling the "Sandy Wastes", during a random encounter, the chances of encountering a "Yuan-Ti" are 1 in 200 total; with 77 separate creatures listed for that terrain. The Sandy Wastes take up 4 of 29 tables for 9 terrain types outside the city-states (if that's any indication of their rarity). |
| #10AlphastreamJun 01, 2010 11:46:07 | There are many snakes in the desert. With 4E it is really easy to customize monsters with cool powers. Make them more like sidewinders and pit vipers. Also, consider the abomination side as being more of the norm than the full Yuan-Ti snake guys, which makes them perfect as some race created by the Pristine Tower. They could also be something a sorcerer-king made long ago and then hid away. I'm a big fan of the monsters, so I can see wanting to include them in the setting. With 4E, making them fit seems pretty easy. |
| #11PennarinJun 01, 2010 12:17:44 | I have yet to see a convincing explanation for the existence of yuan-ti on Athas, and I've been here since 2003. Maybe the inflow of new people once the setting is released will generate a good answer. I'd like to see a very creative DDI article (Dragon/Dungeon) on the yuan-ti of Athas. |
| #12big_goonJun 01, 2010 14:02:21 | The "unofficial unofficial" wiki site has a decent starting point for Yuan-Ti: a creation of a powerful Primordial Drake serpent. I can think of a number of possible backgrounds, none of which are cannon or anything: While the sorcerer-kings are deity-like beings on the world, there must be other powers that slumber within the mountain cracks and hidden places of the world. Some of these beings might be similar to the Lords of Chaos or Primordial Titans. The Elemental Princes are dominant in the Elemental planes, but what about when they step into the real world? What sort of influence would they have upon everyday Athasian lives or wasteland travellers? A slumbering sea drake lies deep under the Ringing Mountains, his snoring rumbles across the mountains, electric storms and high winds accompany these disruptions. Just by passing in close proximity, travellers can be transformed and mutated by the powerful primordial energies that emerge from a drake of such power. One such cult is founded by a sect of fanatics who's life focus is devotion to the powerful serpent entity. Their bodies have become mockeries of their formers selves, and are now more serpent than human. They grow their population through sacrifice: hostages kidnapped at night from nearby villages or at the Tyrian Iron Mines are brought to face the drake monster and transformed to become another devoted fanatic. Another idea: Fallen Githzerai? Githzerai monasteries dot the wastes of Athas. They relish the challenge of such a world so enthralled with death and misery. Although most Githzerai stay hidden within their protective fortresses, some Githzerai fail in their tasks. Could it be that one such fortresses attracted the undesired attention of a Primordial Drake. This being rampaged through the fortress. The survivors of the tragedy survive... to a point. They are forever transformed by the power of the Drake. They live in squalor and misery: a mockery of their former selves. |
| #13xlorep_darkhelmJun 01, 2010 14:53:23 | But what are the primordial drakes? They aren't referenced *at all* in any Dark Sun material. Basically, the whole premise is to add to the setting something that wasn't there (Primordial Drakes), and then use that to define where the Yuan-Ti come from. Seems a bit far-fetched. |
| #14big_goonJun 01, 2010 15:13:40 | I'm certain that Drakes appeared in the original setting. Primordial is just an adjective (the meaning is purposefully not defined). Besides, the point was not to define the "creators" but the creation. Players and DMs can fill in the blanks themselves and work out the mysteries behind the myths. |
| #15xlorep_darkhelmJun 01, 2010 15:18:04 | I'm certain that Drakes appeared in the original setting. Primordial is just an adjective (the meaning is purposefully not defined). Besides, the point was not to define the "creators" but the creation. Players and DMs can fill in the blanks themselves and work out the mysteries behind the myths. Ahh, but the wiki does define what a primordial drake is -- apparently something that opposes some kind of god on Athas. Both of which aren't there. The Athasian Drakes tended to be rather unintelligent beasts, if memory serves. Redefining them to something else also is a bit of a stretch. |
| #16xlorep_darkhelmJun 01, 2010 15:33:10 | The whole Primal Drake thing is a hoax or someone putting his homebrew in the DS wiki. And that is bad. That also is why (in my opinion) the unofficial DS wiki is unreliable in the extreme. I see more homebrew added into it than legitimate details. But that's my personal rant against it (and shouldn't be taken personally by whoever does use it). |
| #17morskittarJun 01, 2010 16:00:59 | No idea what the implementation was like, but apparently Wake of the Ravager had a whole set of quests involving Yuan-ti in the Ringing Mountains (if Wiki is to be believed). |
| #18PennarinJun 01, 2010 16:09:01 | goldo and Xlor nailed it about the unofficialness of the wiki, or its downright untrusthworthiness. They either failed to name it Homebrew Dark Sun's Wiki, or failed in a supervising capacity, letting homebrew stuff creep in. Whatever happened to the Athas.org wiki? A lot of time had been put into that one. I was particularly proud of the Dhojakt entry I made. |
| #19ian.thomsonJun 01, 2010 17:09:56 |
Hey, I just found the link, glanced over, saw the bit about the monastery and read about that instead of the primal drake stuff. Not my fault the wiki is lazier about sources than Wikipedia. Assumed the primal drake stuff was what the yuan-ti were into, which works with their general fluff, and doesn't outright go against Dark Sun: a number of monsters (such as ssurans and raaigs) worship things that don't actually exist on Athas. |
| #20big_goonJun 01, 2010 17:11:41 | Ahh, but the wiki does define what a primordial drake is -- apparently something that opposes some kind of god on Athas. Both of which aren't there. The Athasian Drakes tended to be rather unintelligent beasts, if memory serves. Redefining them to something else also is a bit of a stretch. A "Primordial" is a 4E core world term and derives from the Greek Titans' myths. They have diety-like power (and they fight dieties in the 4E core setting) much like other beings on Athas. There are some interesting DDI articles about these powerful beings, some of which I'm very interested in incorporating into my campaign. Either way, that "can" be worshiped, although they don't offer power (divine power) in return. Worshippers are often fanatic cultists. If you look up the background of Drakes (Terrors of the Desert), it is mentioned that Drakes are from the elemental planes. There's a myth at the beginning of Dragon Kings called the "Drake and Maiden", about a "wise and polite" drake. Maybe the Drakes of the past, the really old drakes, were extremely intelligent? I don't care if it's a strech or not... it's a neat idea that maybe... some of the creatures that roam the wastes have a more interesting past than first appearances warrent? Elemental Lords are all over "Earth, Air, Fire and Water". I quote: "Sacrifice is an extremely altruistic action, and the elemental lords truly appreciate those who take this course". Now... if you consider the sacrifice of somebody else... this statement still holds true (although you'd have to have a rather skewed view of "altruistic actions"). Anyways, that's what I meants about Elemental Princes. Powerful entities of the elements. Now, if you put 2 and 2 together, you could easily understand how Elemental beings might have allies with Elemental beings. Kind of like neighbors, or from the same "hood". Or at least, might have similar powers. |
| #21outlaw68Jun 02, 2010 6:52:48 | No idea what the implementation was like, but apparently Wake of the Ravager had a whole set of quests involving Yuan-ti in the Ringing Mountains (if Wiki is to be believed). That it did, in the (if I recall correctly) forest ridge near the mines, they worshipped a giant intelligent constrictor and had taken over some of the underground and an abandoned temple... I loved that game. |
| #22flipJun 02, 2010 8:24:42 |
Ummm ... :cough: Data's still there, must have dropped it during a server move. I'll, um, actually try and get that thing resurrected... |
| #23PennarinJun 02, 2010 10:55:46 | If we could sticky a thread discussing the wiki and its updates, it would grow in popularity. |
| #24ZardnaarJun 02, 2010 20:28:44 | Yuan-Ti the ancient masters of deception. According to their ancient myths they were the firstborn of the new world opening their eyes upon a new world under a yellow sun. They were the first to utilise a new power known as "The Way". While never great in numbers they settled in the warm and wet lands no other races wanted. Within a few centuries however the soft skins had mutiplied and expanded across the face of Athas. In an effort to increase their numbers it was decided to breed the humans out of exitence through crossbreeding. So enthusiastically did the Yuan Ti try the half bloods and pure bloods ended up outnumbering the Yuan-Ti who increasingly became to be called abominations by the rest of Athas. In a series f great migrations the few true Yuan Ti migrated to the south leaving behind their lesser offspring, to inhabit the lands with the humans. The few remainig elders retreated from the world and sealed themselves away beyond time. By the time the Cleansing Wars rolled around legends of snake men were just that- the few remaining Yuant Ti were assimilated and disguised amoung the humans of Athas. Rajaat not knowing any better didnt assign a champion to the Yuan Ti and thus their participation in the Cleansing Wars was an individual affair, although most played the various races against each other or covertly supported the non humans. Much like the rest of Athas they laid low once Borys became a Dragon. The few times a snake man has been seen most peop assume they are just another desert mutant. Centuries later a great earthquake gave the Kreen Empire access to the Tyr region. Aftershocks also awoke te slumberng Yuan Ti Elders. A new trading house from the South known as House Mareth has begun trading in the Tyr region. The agents of the house all male claim to be from the ruins of Cetza and seem keen to find young wives to help them rebuild the city. Several merchants daughters have been lured away by charismatic suitors from the south promising riches, land and titles. Several have returned with bedecked in jewels and sometimes even gold....... |
| #25outlaw68Jun 06, 2010 21:14:19 | I the wake of the ravager manual Yuan-ti are described as "Descendants of humans whose blood has been fouled", and the snake like creature they are with is a new one called a Kartang. The Kartang actualy gets a full 2nd ed write up in the game manual. |
| #26PennarinJun 06, 2010 21:36:19 | @Outlaw68: Come again? Humans are...mixed with a kartang? I'd like to see that writeup if you can. |
| #27outlaw68Jun 06, 2010 22:02:08 | While they aren't related or mixed blood as such, in game they are working together, the Yuan-ti are acting as servants to the Kartang. The Kartang is an evil genius snake, and it appears that it uses the Yuan-ti to further its own cause. From what the manual describes them as, the Yuan-ti are mutants who have evolved over generations. This is straight from the Wake of the Ravager game manual. In the Yuan-Ti description " Descendants of humans whose blood has been fouled, yuan-ti have varying degrees of snakelike body parts. They are highly intelligent and evil, always plotting to advance their causes." and in the game, they are working with Kartang. " Most who are born of kartang look and act like typical giant constrictors. Occasionally, however, a young snake will show signs that it is sentient. These kartang are often mistaken for elder serpents." "The kartang are a race of giant snakes which arose from the magical disaster that swept Athas. They are carnivorous, preferring young birds and human flesh. Some larger groups have been known to herd and raise wingless birds or other warm-blooded creatures." |