Hey guys,
I read the blog on the AL website regarding character creation and future seasons, and I have concerns. Does this mean my character from Tryanny of dragons can't use any feats presented in Elemental Evil?
Here is the paragraph I'm getting this from.
Each new set of player content is balanced against the Player’s Handbook, but not against other sets of player content. For that reason, the storyline origin of characters cannot be changed and characters created in one season cannot use character options available to characters in later seasons. DMs, organizers, and coordinators are encouraged not to be too harsh with people who mistakenly mix and match materials from different storyline seasons, but rather to remind them of the rule, as none of us want to be, and none of us should be, the rules police.
This is very disconcerning.
That is correct. You may only use the books associated with your Story Origin that you choose at character creation. It is possible to gain access to rules items (such as feats or spells) via adventures however. This is intential as it prevents the power creep combos we've seen in previous editions. No more "I take this old feat from a 2 year old book and pair it with this feat from the new book in a way that was never intended because everyone forgot about that old feat and breaks the game."
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
Skerrit wrote:
The admins are not WOTC employees and do not control anything put out in products so it is not possible for us to do as you suggest. WOTC has already implied that they plan to put out a rules book or chapter for each season with rules intended to be specific to that season's campaign. Because we allow you to continue your character from season to season (that's how OP works), we need to deal with that issue and thus this solution.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
Is there an ETA on the release of the new ALPG?
I'm suggesting we use it to reset the expectations of a couple players in our group before we move on to S2 mods.
zagora_01 wrote:
Avross wrote:
Yeah, the 10th is when the stores are supposed to get access to everything. The new Season starts somewhere around the 18th, unless it is delayed, so the player pdf that goes with Elemental Evil and the new ALPG should be out by then.
As for the whole Story Origin thing, not only can old characters not use stuff that comes out in new seasons, but any character can only use the options for the story origin it was created for and none of the others, newer or older. So in another six months, a season three-created character cannot use any of the player options from seasons one or two. I guess the only way this would be different is if WotC takes all these additional options and puts them into a new core book, like a PHB 2, thus making them legal for any character. So for now, if Genasi is a playable race in season two, as it sounds like it will be, any Genasi character you want to create will have to have an Elemental Evil story origin and will not be able to use any player options from future seasons.
Skerrit wrote:
Avross wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Can I play a genasi character in a ToD module?
zagora_01 wrote:
I hope this works out. It doesn't sound like it will on the surface, but I will wait to pass judgement. Thanks for the information.
Important to note that it's highly unlikely we'll see any EE characters reach the higher levels of renown for quite awhile, ToD characters have quite the head start in that respect.
I just don't see the big issue here.
I just don't forsee that much added crunch comine out with EE.... and it would have to be crunch appropriate to your PC... and it would have to be crunch you really wanted.... I just don't see it being all that common of an occurence.
Coredump00 wrote:
Until the new ALPG comes out, this is what I understand:
Tyranny of Dragons characters follow creation guidelines set in the Season 1 ALPG which would be based on the PHB. All races, classes, feats and backgrounds are available to be used for Season 1. You can play your Season 1 character in Season 2, but you cannot use options outlined in the Season 2 ALPG.
Elemental Evil (Season 2) characters will follow creation guidelines set in the Season 2 ALPG. All PHB classes will be available, but races, feats and backgrounds will be used from other sources such as the Adventurer's Handbook which is tied directly into the Elemental Evil storyline. Any other options will be defined in the Season 2 ALPG. You can play a Season 2 character in Season 1 mods, but you cannot use Season 1 options for a Season 2 character.
Question then:
Say Season 2 is in full swing. Lets say Season 2 , lets characters make A Genasi, but they cannot make a Dragonborn anymore. Hoard of the Dragon queen Season lets people make a Dragonborn but not a Genasi.
Player A starts to game and has his heart set on playing a Flame scaled Dragonborn, however the gm is about to start running Prince of the Apoc. Now can Player A , use the old Hoard players Guide to make a Dragonborn for Princes , assuming he only uses the options as presented in the Hoard Players guide?. Obviously from then on, he is limited to only using the Hoard Players Guide rules which he is comfortable with and will never be updated again.
This kinda option isnt too far out of it in terms of what a potential player might ask.
Tyranthraxus: As I understand it, you can create a character using any story origin (ToD, EE, whatever season 3 is) at any time, and use that in any adventure. So, in May 2015, your hypothetical player can make a Tyranny of Dragons story origin dragonborn and play that in any adventure—again, assuming appropriate level for the specific adventure.
(I understand you were just illustrating a point, but to be clear, Dragonborn are part of the PHB and thus will be allowed in EE. )
From what I have read of SKerrit's posts.
Yes.
During Season 3 I could still create a Genasi character using the Season 2 rules, but could not choose the new subclass that came out in season 3, nor could the genasi have the Dragon Scholar background from Season 1. And our Season 2 and Season 3 characters could still run through the Season 1 Expeditions if we wanted to.
At some point in the future, they *may* retire Character options or adventures from previous seasons, but that is a ways in the future and nothing has been decided yet. (Ex. No creating Genasi characters in Season 6)
Thanks. I really was just trying to make it clear in my mind, by writing it down in here.
I was hoping that the Seasonal stuff would be a bit more.. well.. restrictive is probably not the best word but one I should use. I was actually hoping for them to say 'Genasi are in, but Dragonborn are not a valid option' for the Elemental Evil Background. Apart from kiboshing the 2 background options Im not seeing yet how the Hoard Players Guide is going to be massively different to the Elemental Evil Players guide.
zagora_01 wrote:
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
CzarCascade wrote:
There were two background features in Appendix A of HotDQ which you could choose if you were Season 1 character. It helped to tie some characters into the storyline. I called BS on this previously and asked if I could say that a character I started in ToD but who didn't take either option of HotDQ was actually a Season 2 character, so she could gain access to stuff from EE. I was told no.
Undrhil wrote:
madscientistlabrat wrote:
This is a bad system for veteran AL players with high level characters . High level characters won't get to join in on the fun of using new feats, spells and combos from season to season. Thier forced to wait for a splat book, which may never come or inevest more time with a new character. The fear of power creep doesn't warrant this. Let the play testers do thier job if thats the main concern.
Tyranny of Dragons
- Any character which was played before the start of S2 is automatically a ToD character. Without exception.
- After the start of S2, you can choose ToD as your starting origin.
- ToD characters are not limited to S1 story arcs, and can play in any EE (or later) story arc providing their level is in the required range (tier).
Elemental Evil
- When you create a character during S2+, you choose one of the existing story origins for your character. In S2, this includes ToD and EE.
- If you choose EE, you are limited to the books listed for the EE story origin.
- If you choose ToD, you are limited to the books listed in the ToD story origin.
- Any character (regardless of story origin) can play any adventure in their tier.
I sincerely hope that they list the Allowed Rules for each story origin separately in each new ALPG. Something to the effect of the following:
Allowed Rules
You can use any of the following rules for your character (regardless of story origin)
- Dnd Basic Rules (all rules except rolling stats & HPs)
- Players Handbook (all rules except rolling stats & HPs)
Tyranny of Dragons
In addition, characters with the Tyranny of Dragons story origin can also use:
- Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Appendix A
Elemental Evil
In addition, characters with the Elemental Evil story origin can also use:
- Elemental Evil player supplement (free Pdf, whatever it happens to be called)
- Princes of the Apocalypse, Appendix ??
If they choose not to list the available rules for each story origin, things will get muddy very quickly.
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
In all seriousness, what are we actually talking about?
ToD options are
- A new set of Bonds which tie into the Encounters adventures
- Optional features that can replace a background feature, and give a character insight into the particular villain group of the season.
If there's anything else, then you're looking at cert-based rewards or at least sources I haven't seen.
That being said, I'm having a hard time understanding how this about preventing power creep, if the S2+ options are going to be similar. I'm sort of in favor of it only because it prevents someone from Mary-Sue-ing it...last season they were a Dragon Scholar and knew everything about dragons, but next, they want to be an...Elemental Savant, and know everything about the primordial elementals.
Avross wrote:
The Elemental Evil story origin will include things like new races (Genasi confirmed), spells, feats, powers, backgrounds, classes and/or subclasses. To make use of any of the new features, one of the following must be true:
- You have the elemental evil story origin
- You find a new spell/feature in an adventure. Unless explicitly stated - this option is only available to wizards who copy spells from a captured spellbook.
- You have a certificate which grants you an EE feature regardless of story origin.
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
It sounds like the requirement for Character Story-Arc Origin was published one season too soon.
Right now, the ToD-valid material is a subset of the EE-valid material, not an overlapping Venn diagram. After season 3 begins, we will have a Venn diagram for seasons 2 and 3, with the shared space labelled "Players Handbook".
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
madscientistlabrat wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
I understand the direction the AL is taking is making many people unhappy, but the simple fact is - all other OP environments have had the opposite situation - characters which use OP/broken combo's from a variety of books.
Such problems plagued the living greyhawk, living forgotten realms, and even the pathfinder societies OP environments. It is for this very reason that PFS is now running their "Core" campaign - in order to cut back on the broken combo's after the fact.
AL is attempting to circumvent such broken combo's before the fact by limiting characters to a small number of books each.
While I'm a big fan of the idea of limiting character options by Story Origin, I would like to see the early adopters be rewarded for their due diligence. Assuming that the March 18th start time still stands, allowing one-way Story Origin rebuilds of 1st tier characters from March 18th-31st gives a two-week period to read the new material and decide. After then, all TOD characters would be stuck with that origin regardless of when they were created, Since TOD adventures are not being rotated out of ALfor at least a few more months, it wouldn't upset the overall long-term balance of the OP.
Either way, I can't wait to see what's coming. Tuesday can't get here fast enough... :P
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
There is something you are forgetting.......
While Story Origins limit your options to X, Y, and Z..... There is nothing stopping the Dev's from introducing new options to existing story origins at a later date.
For example:
A future ALPG may have a hypothetical entry such as the following:
* New Entry available to all existing, and new characters regardless of story origin. In addition, all characters choose a story origin, which grants them additional rules. Tyranny of Dragons
Kalani wrote:
Pauper wrote:
I'm perfectly fine with limiting the rules books options by season.
So if I have a season 1 based toon and play in a season 2 adventure and find a new spell (that came out in a related book to season 2), I can't use it because...well just because?
CzarCascade wrote:
CzarCascade wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
@coredump: This is based on what Skerrit has said, based on his knowledge as an AL admin.... We will know in the next week or so what the situation actually ends up being.
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Well, if all goes according to plan - we should have the Elemental Evil player options tomorrow. Hopefully the ALPG 2.0 will come out at the same time, but we haven't received an official date for that yet IIRC.
Kalani wrote:
The new ALPG (2.0, referenced above) now says:
"When you create your D&D Adventurers League character for the current season, take starting equipment as determined by your class and background. You cannot roll for your starting wealth."
Does this mean the option to take maximum gold and purchase your own equipment is no longer available? I personally found that the pre-made equipment kits always contained junk I'd never use, and it was cheaper to buy my own gear.
TheBreen: Thats how I read it. You start with stuff, you cannot purchasey your OWN stuff.
Coredump00 wrote:
I thought the reward of being an "early adopter" (i.e. someone who joins in at ToD not EE) is that you got to play first and have all sorts of fun and experience the adventures before the people who joined later (i.e., "not early adopters," someone joining EE or later).
I had no idea that these hardcore gamers really expected it would mean that they would get extra perks for their characters over what is available to new players. Isn't it enough that we can jump right into Tier 2 content in Season 2 and are many levels ahead of the "not early adopter" folks? I know my paladin is level 8, and I've certainly enjoyed playing her over the last half year or so, and I'm excited to see what trouble she can get into in Mulmaster.
Her story origin really doesn't concern me one way or another.
Oraibi wrote:
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Oraibi wrote:
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
I just want to say that my fears were realized. I looked at the new Player's Companion. There many things I wanted todo with old characters that I cannot.
Barbarian - I have a human barbarian that i would really like to convert to a Goliath. I can't now. That's 4 levels of playing wasted because i really want a Goliath barbrian, so I will be starting a new character.
Eldritch Knight - All kinds of new spells the Eldritch knight would love to have. He can't take them unless he finds them in an adventure, and there is a small chance of that happening.
Cleric - same delima as the eldritch knight. Spells he wants but can't have.
This rule really needs to be looked at again.
zagora_01 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Well for your cleric, you're lucky since there are no cleric spells in the EE Player's companion. For you Eldritch Knight, there is always a chance and since its an elemental themed season, I'd say a good one. For you barbarian, ya, that one you can't fix. I'm sorry your feel that barbarian's play was "wasted" and you didn't have any fun playing through those four levels. If it wasn't fun, why did you make that character? If it was fun, well hopefully that was worth something on its own.
As always all rules can potentially be relooked at, though usually we like to see how they go for a few seasons before changing anything.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
Oraibi wrote:
OrganicDnD23 wrote:
I see nothing in the 'rebuild' rules which says you cannot rebuild your story origin. Is this an oversight?
Skerrit wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
Oraibi wrote:
caecafortuna wrote:
Undrhil wrote:
caecafortuna wrote:
Undrhil wrote:
Undrhil wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
AlHazred wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper is not an admin, but like me - he pays very close attention to what the admins say. On several ocassions, Skerrit has said that they will keep an eye on things and will adjust them as necessary.
The most recent changes that came directly from feedback are:
- PCs can no longer purchase starting equipment, and must now choose their starting package. This is to allow PCs to retrain starting gear (something that was accidentilly omitted in the ALPG 2.0, and will be corrected).
- DMs now earn GP for their DMPCs in addition to XP and downtime.
zagora_01 wrote:
Kalani wrote:
The real issue I have is with regards to spells - there is no In World way to justify a limitation that I can think of. Also, it's all very well and good for a wizard from season 1 (or EK or AT ????) to be able to steal some spells from season 2 NPC wizardry casters, but that seems slightly unfair to the other caster classes, though they do have to spend gold. I'm not sure the gold cost balances that.
Also, what happens if my 3rd level wizard from season one sits down at a table with a 3rd level wizard (say, played by my wife) from season 2? Can he get the new spells then?
Ainulindalion wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Kalani wrote:
MasterNamer wrote:
caecafortuna wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Everywhere I have seen and responses from AL admins have indicated that you can scribe EE spells into the Spellbook of a ToD player. This would fall under Wizards, Warlocks (Tome of Ancient Secrets) and the Ritual Caster feat.
Where I am not certain, is the ability to cast spells from a scroll acquired in a new adventure. (I would lean toward yes myself, but assuming things and posting them as fact is a good way to be seen as a BIG FAT PHONY)
Good good. At least there's a work around for wizards spells at the moment. Lets see how fast they hit it with optimization/munchkin hate.
Wizards were never a problem with this. It's the other spell casters who can never learn those spells. Even finding it as a scroll, just means that a Sorcerer could cast it once. He can never learn that spell permanently.
Ravix wrote:
A quick reality check for my character generator database. ToD spellcasters, collectively, have about 362 unique spells that can be learned, while EE spellcasters collectively have those plus 43 more (405 total, if I count and add correctly). That is, EE characters have access to all the ToD spells (which are from the Player's Handbook) plus the new PotA spells.
Does that sound right? I was up late last night adding all the new races and abilities, and figuring out how best to present options during character creation. 
Assuming you are correct in your spell counts you are correct - 362+43 = 405. EE characters have a much broader spell list than ToD characters.
Apparently we can copy them from other characters spellbooks.... Interesting. Mind you, that will only apply to low level spells initially and will not include any of the new fun cantrips.
Makes me happy that maximillian's earthen grasp is only 2nd level. Some DMPCs could easily start play at 3rd level right out of the gate.
Kalani wrote:
Ravix wrote:
Yeah, the cantrips are where the fun is at.
The way I'm reading this should also mean that you can use spell scrolls that you find and are in your class list.
CahPahkah wrote:
Yeah that looks about right Pauper.
CahPahkah wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Kalani wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Specifically, here.
Skerrit's response is that the intent is that Season 1 adventures do not give gold as a DM award.
I suspect they've modified the award for Lost Mine, as it's an 'evergreen' adventure that's available in all story seasons.
--
Pauper
I know; I read that. You were asking about season 1 Expeditions games, which I addressed as not giving gold.
The idea that HotDQ or Lost Mine also don't is just explicitly contradicted by the rules in the revised ALPG, particularly when it comes to Lost Mine (which is not a season 1 adventure).
"Home Game Rewards. A DM running home play (the for-sale published adventures, including Lost Mine of Phandelver) receives a DM reward after each episode he or she runs for a group. The DM receives 300 XP and 150 gp times the tier of play...and 10 downtime days for each episode completed."
If DM Character rewards can be stored and applied later, then how does HotDQ and RoT not fit this description?
Hypothetically, if I started running Hoard today, the only version of the ALPG I could download tells me that I get 150 gp for each episode I DM...and the only thing the contradicts that is forum posts that lack attribution (of Skerrit as an admin). That seems insufficient to override the printed rules.
Given the fact that my question specifically related to a DM award earned for completing Episode 7 of Hoard of the Dragon Queen, I think Skerrits answer is clear cut.
- You cannot gain GP awards for season 1 adventures. Period.
Hoard of the Dragon Queen was specifically designed as a season 1 adventure. The only module which is in question is Lost Mines of Phandelver which is listed as an evergreen adventure. I would rule that you can gain the GP award from Lost Mines, as it counts as a season 1, season 2, season 3, season 4 adventure, and so on.
CahPahkah wrote:
I also think it's entirely possible that Skerrit was incorrect in assuming that the rules for DM rewards for Expeditions are the same as for Home Play when making a hasty forum post.
All I'm saying is that the ALPG rules do not make the same exception when it comes to Home Play, and if that differs from intent that ambiguity should be looked at.
I'd go the other way -- assume Skerrit's initial post is correct and adjust the expectation if he posts a correction later. (He very seldom needs to, in my experience.)
--
Pauper
From the AL Facebook page:
Katie Hare Just to clarify point 4: does that include adding gp to the DM rewards for running LMoP or HotDQ/RoT?
Robert Adducci Katie Hare, no only EE adventures going forward.
Katie Hare Is LMoP not considered 'home play'? Page13 seemed to suggested new instances of LMoP at least, going forward, would yield gp for DMs.
Robert Adducci You're right Katie, I've updated the post to include Lost Mine for DM GP.
And this is the complete list that Robert, who is the head of the AL, posted on the 10th that Katie is questioning:
The new Elemental Evil Player's Guide has everything you need to know about playing in the Elemental Evil storyline and the D&D Adventurers League.
Here's a quick rundown of a few of the major changes you'll see in the Player's Guide from V1:
1)This season, allowed rules includes the D&D basic rules, Player’s Handbook, Princes of the Apocalypse appendices A & B, the Elemental Evil Player’s Companion (except aarakocra, due to flight), and the Monster Manual appendix A (beasts only)
2) Characters now take the starting equipment listed for their class and background
3) New faction downtime activities are added here for Mulmaster adventures only.
4) DM Rewards section has been updated to include a gp reward equal to half the XP reward. This is for EE adventures and Lost Mine of Phandelver going forward, so ToD adventures do not receive the gold reward.
5)Find a Place to Play section updated with online streaming play specifically called out as a public play format
6) FAQ: Ideal path for character play. Basically it's recommended to only allow characters to move away from D&D Encounters or Lost Mine of Phandelver to D&D Expeditions when they're finished with that particular adventure or return at the beginning of an Episode.
7) FAQ: Update to magic item crafting to allow potions of healing.
8) FAQ: Info on how new D&D Expeditions adventures are released, with details on regional previews.
So no gold for DMs from HotDQ or RoT.
Kalani wrote:
Oraibi wrote:
Oraibi wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
Oraibi wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
What about items which were bought and sold? Are you suggesting that the logsheet be replaced with a purchase log for each item bought and/or sold for the first four levels?
Coredump00 wrote:
It doesn't. It's just that normally you wouldn't have the opportunity.
With that being said: The RCs are currently running a competition for the LCs to design the new season 2 pregens. Robert Adducci and Alan Patrick were both fine with us selling starting gear for our pregens.
This came up when I was making a deep gnome fighter, and ran into the problem of choosing chaimail or a longbow.
As such, my recommendation is to allow PCs to sell any/all of their starting gear. If they rebuild, they only get to keep the treasure they earned on their logsheet and then add new starting packages to the result. This prevents people from rebuild grinding as their starting gear is always kept separate (including any GP earned by selling starting gear).
Pauper wrote:
The reason we are suggesting this is to stop people from rebuild grinding and to nip a potential problem in the butt before it occurs.
For Example
- Starting out as a Noble Fighter. Selling off the most expensive gear you have (chainmail, longbow, etc), and purchasing new gear - including spending most (if not all) of the 30gp.
- Rebuilding to Paladin. Sell off the expensive items. Purchase new gear.
- Rebuilding to desired class (and background) with a lot more starting gear than intended
By forcing them to track any purchases made due to selling off their starting gear, you prevent the above scenario, as the entire starting gear package (and anything which was purchased from said) must be either:
- (a) repurchased out of the new package or
- (b) removed along with the rest of the characters starting gear.
Coredump00 wrote:
If they don't want rebuild grinding, then they need to set a max number of rebuilds, perhaps once per level from levels 1 to 4. Besides, you should not even be able to rebuild til you have played at least one session with a character. After all, if you have not played your character yet, there is nothing to rebuild, you just make a new character.
Edit: after rechecking the PG, it is already in there that you cannot rebuild til after playing a session or adventure.
And as for selling equipment, character creation specifically only says you can buy equipment, not sell starting gear. It does say at the end of an episode or adventure (and sometimes during), you can buy and sell mundane items. So being able to sell starting equipment before you have played a single session needs to be added to the Guide or put in the official FAQ. That or hope you have a lenient starting DM who allows you to go shopping at the beginning of your first session with a new character.
Enevhar_Aldarion wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
Hi, going off the subtopic of selling gear (which I believe you CAN do once you actually are playing an adventure); And I did search around the forum before posting. I am looking for some clarifications on Characters from one Season being played in another; any rules pulled from the PHB are usable except rolling for ability scores and buying Equipment for Season 2 (EE). For those that don't already know it this IS ALLOWED with a few exceptions (if I understand correctly)...
- 1. You have to meet the level requirements of the specific adventure you plan to play (AKA be within the correct Tier)
- 2. Season Specific rules or elements from one Season are not allowed to be used in a different Season (with Wizards scribing spells found during the course of an adventure being one exception)
- 3. Races from EE/PotA Season 2 are not allowed in the Tyranny of Dragons nor are Season 2 spells allowed to be used in Season 1 Adventures
--->From the Elemental Evil Official Text: "D&D Adventurers League play is broken up into storyline seasons. When players create characters, they attach those characters to a storyline season, which determines what rules they’re allowed to use to create and advance their characters. Players can continue to play their characters after the storyline season has finished, possibly participating in a second or third storyline with those same characters. A character’s level is the only limitation for adventure play. A player cannot use a character of a level higher or lower than the level range of a D&D Adventurers League adventure."
--->Also, THIS from Robert Adducci, Mar 10, 2015 "Not a dumb question at all, the answer is YES! You can keep your existing character, however to use the character options in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion you'll have to make a new character with the Elemental Evil Story Origin." https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/107955958789548060631?pid=6124598788940874834&oid=107955958789548060631 All good stuff!
So, In Review, we can play an EE character in ToD and vice-versa so long as we adhere to the above rules. This is a very good thing for players who want to continue to play a character that they advanced into Tier 2 or higher in Season 1; as far as I know they can even take their magic items along with them, provided that it's not a Season Specific item. Sure, they will miss out some of the cool stuff from EE (the new character races being one of the most noteworthy) but it's an option that some players will want to use and enjoy. Here are my questions:
- 1. I have a Season 2 EE character that used material from the PHB/Starter set ONLY I can play in a Season 1 Adventure. If I do, can I return to Season 2 after completing adventure so long as I abide by all of the above rules??
- 1a. Same question using a Season 1 ToD character; I can play in a Season 2 Adventure; after completing it, can I return to Seaon 1??
- 1b. Can characters in the above two examples switch back and forth between the Seasons? I've seen nothing that says otherwise. Encounters & Expeditions are episodic & stand alone/one-shot adventures (despite being connected via the central storyline). From a story stand point this doesn't make a ton of sense HOWEVER it would if you have to burn some Downtime days and/or gold to represent travel & expenses. I haven't calculated the distance but I'd estimate 15-20 days (barring difficulty).
- 2. Can characters that have Magic Item Certificates from different season trade items (so long as neither of them are Season unique AND both are of the same rarity)?? I think yes as the rules don't state otherwise...
Apologies if this was covered somewhere else; I looked but didn't find anything. Thanks for reading!
That was rather long-winded!
You can play any character in any adventure that it is eligible for. ToD in EE, EE in ToD. I can be in Mulmaster one day and in Phlan the next, there's a suspension of disbelief involved but it is allowed.
The only limitations at this point are Story Origins which are used in character creation and advancement. ToD characters cannot learn EE spells or rebuild into EE races, the only exception being Wizards with the ability to scribe spells into their spellbook. You can also use scrolls acquired in adventures that correspond to your class.
Magic items are magic items and can be traded should the certificates be of equal rarity and have open trade slots.
FRealmsLover wrote:
FRealmsLover wrote:
Ravix wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Does this include outlawing spells? Can characters from season 1 not cast spells released in elemental evil?
Characters with the season one (ToD) story origin cannot learn spells from season two (EE) during character creation or leveling, but should they get access to them some other way, such as a wizard copying a captured foe's spellbook, they could then cast them.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
In the extreme corner case, a ToD character has a spell scroll of a cantrip from the EE spell list that appears on their character's class spell list. They reach a level where they can learn a new cantrip. Can they learn that cantrip?
Expanding on that a little bit: If a ToD wizard has a spell scroll from EE, can they choose that spell to be one of their 2 free spells at level up?
A ToD wizard can never learn an EE a spell as a result of leveling up or character creation; only by copying one into their book.
Greg Marks
Associate Resource Manager
Skerrit wrote:
My appologies in advance, this turned into a much longer post than I intended. 
Skerrit wrote:
It's a tense situation when a DM has to make a decision like this in AL amongst people he doesn't really know that well.
I respect this guy for walking away and not escalating.
If you are running a ToD campaign and you have not read the EE content... spells, race, etc... then you should have every right to refuse EE characters into your game. The dungeon master is expected to be able to run the game comfortably and arbitrate all the rules. DM's take lots of time to prep for a game so that they don't spend the entire time looking things up. This can be very difficult in situations where you have not even glanced at the rules of EE.
It's not enough to bring a printout from a forum or your tweet history or some guy's blog post. If the DM is on the spot and the rule is unclear and he is uncomfortable with it, he is going to go with his gut. 50% of the time, I go do the research later and go with what I find, but put on the spot without the research, I go with my gut. If i'm wrong I admit it and make an announcement the next session.
Good luck finding a new table.
Rowenoake wrote:
am0363 wrote:
I guess my question is, what would count as 'more visible'? It's in the ALPG, it's in the FAQ on the dndadventurersleague.org website. Links to those resources are provided via Twitter and Facebook, as well as WotC's own D&D page.
The only other thing I could think of would be if such a blurb doesn't already exist in the actual EE adventures, which I can't confirm since I haven't yet seen an EE adventure. If it is in there, though, then how could the information be any more widely distributed than it already is?
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Pauper
Pauper wrote:
Rowenoake wrote:
The original quote from the Guide is the closest of anything to saying any character is legal in any storyline, but none of those quotes are really explicit on playing new story origin characters in older adventures. While they mainly say that older characters can play in the new adventures, a DM could still interpret all this as saying a new story origin character does not have to be allowed in older stories. There is nothing simple and straightforwad that a DM cannot argue with, such as: "A character of any story origin in legal to play in all AL adventures, regardless of that adventure's story origin, as long as the character meets the level requirements of the adventure."
Pauper, all of those passages tend to address taking an existing or older PC, and still using them in the newer adventures. There isn't much that addresses using a new PC in an older adventure, which is the problem he is having.
How about comments said by Greg Marks and Robert Adducci, admins for the entire campaign? Their personal comments are effectively "Law" when it comes to rules issues pertaining to AL
To be fair, Pauper (I'm not going to multiquote your post cause that'd end up long), all of those quoted sections from the guides and FAQs talk about taking existing characters forward. They don't mention anything about taking new characters backwards - only stating that existing characters can play multiple storylines. That doesn't, by default, mean that a new character can, particularly to participate in a season using a ruleset that predates the ruleset under which the character was created.
While I agree that there isn't any actual question regarding the intent, as it has been repeatedly clarified on these forums, there should never be any need for a DM, organizer, or other 'official' to frequent the forums to participate in Adventurer's League.
For the volunteer DMs at a FLGS, that's even more true. They should be able to sit down, read the ALPG provided by the organizer, read the module, and run the game.
You shouldn't have to read the dndadventurersleague.org page, because all the documentation specifically states that it is for organizers. If you're not an organizer, and you don't have any question about the text of the ALPG, why the heck would you look on the forums or the AL page for FAQ? Just because those questions are frequent, doesn't mean everyone will ask them.
Yeah, the DM made the wrong call, but without a direct quote from a rules source actually permitting something, he may have gone with the option of 'that which is not specifically permitted is forbidden', particularly if he thought it would imbalance his game or he wasn't clear on the rules for the new character options.
Kalani wrote:
Actually, the quote pauper gave earlier applies equally to characters regardless of story origin.
Choose a Story Origin
Select your story origin for your character. Most of the time, this is simple—it’s your starting adventure’s storyline season. Your choice of story origin tells you what rules you can use for character options. You can choose any available story origin, even if you plan on playing in another storyline.
The following story origins are currently available:
• Elemental Evil
• Tyranny of Dragons (see “Past Story Origins” at the
end of this document)
imaginaryfriend wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Here is the mistake that made.
I thought that the ToD adventures follow the ToD players guide even during the EE season.
Now I see the ToD rules actually has an expiration date (right there on the cover), so that means that when you are playing ToD adventures during the EE season you are supposed to be using the updated EE rules release.
It was of course a mistake on my part. I had to make an "arbitration" on something that was unclear to me at the time, and at that time it was 15 minutes past the time that the game was supposed to start so.. yeah.. it happens.
Anyways, you are always welcome back at my table, otherwise enjoy your AL experience.
All the Best!
Christopher
Rowenoake wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Cool -- looks like this one can be marked 'resolved'.
Game on!
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Pauper
CahPahkah wrote:
am0363 wrote:
Kalani wrote:
The current ALPG and FAQ still don't add up. For example, the ALPG's wording on DM gp rewards is worded in such a way that might surprise DMs discovering the FAQ.
Anyways, the new starting equipment rules were designed to make repurchasing starting equipment easier for players that choose to rebuild their characters, right? The ALPG directly contradicts this practice, and the FAQ doesn't support this either. If you're going to take away from the whole to give to the part, shouldn't the rules reflect this? I recently sat down a table where a player rebuilt his character and was told that he had to use starting equipment package from his previous build. Going from a monk to any other class can be a pain equipment wise if you don't enough gold to offset. All that did was create a less than optimal atmosphere for the player, and to a degree for some of the other players. Maybe, the FAQ, at the very least, should be updated to reflect the intent of the new rules...
abanathie wrote:
Enevhar_Aldarion wrote:
The FAQ section regarding DM rewards should have been reworked/ removed awhile back. Can you drop me (via email or PM) specific links with the conflicting information?
I know that at least one forum user has created an ongoing PDF of the FAQ entries, but some of that information has changed - which means that the PDF in question is using outdated stuff.
What are Story Origins, an article that should answer some questions that have been posed here:
warfteiner wrote: