Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tylar Sep 19, 2014 21:54:44	Posted in DMs forums, but i'd like AL advice as well, since this might be adventure specific.   So i played in our local Expeditions tonight, and we ran thru the part in DDEX 1-1 where you find the blue dragon tooth in the tavern. My question isnt so much about the module setup, but about the Dms response to the players actions. Heres the major points.   NPC sits down at the players table unexpectedly, and not introduced. Described as wearing a cloak, and looks semi-shady. The NPC then tells the players that a powerful magic item has made its way into the town, and is very likely in the tavern right now. The NPC mentions if we find it, he may reward us. Then he walks out of the tavern.   I then ask the DM out of character if we even had a chance to talk with this guy, negotiate any deal for this item, or about the terms of any deal that might have been made. The Dm then replied with " There was no netion, and he did not make any deal nor any specific mention of any payment."   Shortly after the npc left, the players thought maybe finding the item would be a good idea, and if it could be aquired perhaps we could turn it into a profit or make use of it for our various factions. We then proceeded to play out the adventure, using our skills and a bit of magic to locate the item in question, and one of the group took a bit of damage getting the item in hand and consequently saving the townsfolk. After a short rest to recover a bit and make sure the wounded townsfolk were recovering, the origional NPC who told us the item was here shows up and demands we give him/her ( im not sure, as this was not clear ) the item we just found. My character, being a bit roguish and follow the zhent's decided maybe to hold onto it and see if a greater reward could be hand, since we had no existing deal with this random guy to begin with. another of the party also didn't want to turn it over to this random NPCs demands. At this point, hand the players had decided not to hand it over, with the other half on the fence, not really leaning one way or the other.   The DM then had the NPC say " hand me the item, or ill throw you in jail. This kinda came out of nowhere, and wasnt explained in the slightest. My character then asked the NPC who he was in relation to this town or the local guard, and what would prompt this response. The DM then asked me directly " do you hand the tooth to him, or not." i replied, "no, i dont. If he wants to negotiate or discuss it then we might." The Dm then turned to both the players who didnt want to give the item away and said guards rush in and throw us both in jail. This event was handwaved, and we had no chance to anything at this point. The NPC took the item, and left in jail till the next day. The two players who had no real opinion on what to do got the listed gold, split between them, and the two players who got 24hr jail got nothing. Im honestly not even sure if we were awarded any xp or not.   It was at this point that i literally walked out on the table. I thought this over use of DM fiat and railroad was completely uncalled for. I clearly acted within the roleplaying limits of my character, comlete with a plan to turn the item in to my faction. The second player also had similar plans. My reasoning was as follows: we had no deal to turn this item in, he was not idetified as any sort of town representative, we had no control over beign sentenced, captured, and then imprisoned and we didnt even do anything illegal. Had the other players been strongly opinionated to turn it in for some reason, i could have been persuaded to do so, but they werent and didnt seem to mind that we didnt want to give it up.   Im just wondering what other DMs did to handle similar circumstances, and if the DM was just in this case, or if it was clearly overboard. Any advice would be appreciated.     Tylar
#2 DM_HEEGZ Sep 20, 2014 6:10:32	Sounds like the opportunities to roleplay the conflict with the NPC were missed. I think that is the whole point of this episode (RP), and clearly it is not a strong point for that particular DM. As it is a level 1 adventure, you could always try it again with a different PC and DM. In my past experiences, both DMs and players can have extremely different play expectations which are deal breakers for continued play. I'd say you did the right thing by leaving and not making a scene.    For what it is worth, the adventure states that all PCs who participate in this episode get a minimum of 75XP and 5 downtime days. If you didn't record this on your log sheet because you were upset, you should have gotten at least that amount. If you can contact any of the other players, you should be able to figure out what XP was awarded at the table, even if you missed out on the monetary award. Negative experiences with a DM suck, but in my experience they are always bound to happen, even with a regular gaming group, but particularly with a new to you DM.
#3 Skerrit Sep 20, 2014 6:56:13	The DM in your example seems to have made **** up that wasn't in the adventure. The NPC from the Emerald Enclave has no way to make the guards throw you in jail and the adventure even details the item in case you try to keep it.
#4 tylar Sep 20, 2014 14:22:10	I expected this was a gross over reaction, as it was looked upon with a wierd "WTF" by a secondary GM when it was annouced. At the start, i even made a special note to try and interact with the emerald NPC to establish an agreement of some sort to turn over this powerfulitem for a reward, but the Dm literally had the guy just walk out as i was trying to speak to him. Later, i even tried to ask the NPC specifically who he was related to this town, the local guards, or what i had even done to warant immediate lockup, but nothign was elaborated on except " the guards come and lock you both up, and the tooth is taken from you." The minimum for that adventure is fine, it was short and fairly easy all things considered, but it does suck losing a game tablr because i have some integrity to not play with a DM so full of themselves.     Thanks guys.   Tylar
#5 randl Sep 21, 2014 19:24:53	First off, let me say I do consider the DM handling of this poorly done, but lets look at this from another perspective.   While the strength of Society play is that there shoud always be a table available and mostly well prepared modules available, not always are a full range of options available that would be for a more home-based campaign.  After all, this is the introductory adventure that is meant to have fairly balanced results among all tables.   Problems sometimes can start when the players start to go beyond the parameters of the module like this and the GM panics.  There may have been no guidelines for negaotiation built within module, just a simple do the job and get the provided reward.  Society seems to assume that the players know they are working for a bigger organization and may receieve missions from other factions.  As part of the first module, there are 5 missions, 1 for each faction.  There was probably no way to grant faction outside of the emerald enclave for that particular mission.   I probably would have had the other factions reply to the PC's that there is more going on here than their position allows and request that the PC's turn the item over for the provided reward.
#6 tylar Sep 23, 2014 6:26:53	Its not that i was trying to derail the adventure, its just that the NPC at the start made no arrangement to take possesion of the item. As it was played out at the table, he barely introduced himself. I agree the players should expect a certain degree of expected guidance going thru organized, planned adventures, but when an NPC makes no attempt to set the players up for what theyre expected to do or what theyre being offered in return, said NPC has no right to show up at the end after the players complete what they thought they should do and demand items from the group with no explanation. Im not even sure we had anyone from the emerald enclave in the group, so the faction point is questionable, not that i was trying to get a faction point with my own faction either. I just simply had no reason to turn over the tooth to someone i didnt know nor had any deal with to exchange it. That choice was heavy hand forced unto me, with what sounds like provisions that were not in the module, and even goes against the possibility that the players keep the tooth since it gave stats for. For me, it really all boild down to " Why would i hand over this item to a guy i dont know, who belongs to a different faction than i do. Ive not made any deal to do this, nor have i been directed to do this. Since im zhent, i should sieze any chance i have to possibly gain something." and then i got hit for roleplaying.
#7 Skerrit Sep 23, 2014 7:55:28	Interestingly, it seems like most of your requests are addressed in the adventure, though your DM may not have used those points. The NPC in questions tells (or should tell) the PCs who he is and why he's there and what his group does (why he cares about this item). He also doesn't leave, he goes to deal with the staff while the PCs deal with the customers. He's literally either in the room with you or in the kitchen the entire time. (I usually have him in the kitchen talking to the cook when stuff goes down so he doesn't take any of the spotlight from the PCs). The adventure also details the items so you can write on your logsheet and take it.  Only EE PCs can get the renown so you don't miss anything there. Nothing in the xp requires you to give the tooth, so you should get full xp if you finish. Now you do potentially get less money because the NPC won't pay you for finding the tooth, but then you could potentially keep the item. It sounds like your DM made some rush descions when you went off book and might not have been fully prepared to deal with alternatives (which the adventure gives details how to handle) to the main path.
#8 randl Sep 23, 2014 9:15:29	Skerrit wrote:
#9 Noon Sep 26, 2014 3:13:44	tylar wrote: