Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kalani Mar 29, 2015 16:38:37	Disclaimer This thread is not official, and is only intended as a guide. I do not speak for the admins or other campaign staff in writing this guide.
#2 Enevhar_Aldarion Mar 29, 2015 20:39:36	You still need to deal with the player of the character, though. A player who is doing this stuff because it fits their character concept and they are roleplaying it that way can be worked with. A player who does this kind of stuff with all their characters is a while different thing to try and fix. The first player will probably adjust and roleplay whatever punishment you deal out in-game. The second player will not care at all about your "punishments", will probably get hostile, and may need to be banned from your table or even your store.
#3 Kalani Mar 29, 2015 20:45:19	The ALPG covers player conduct and disruptive play (warnings, removal from the table/premises, and/or contacting the authorities depending on the specific violation).   This guide is intended to provide guidelines for in-character consequences as it is a frequent topic of discussion (esp. regarding whether DMs can expel characters from a faction, award negative renown and many other items on the forbidden consequence list)
#4 Enevhar_Aldarion Mar 29, 2015 21:07:20	Right, and in-game character punishments will only work if the player cooperates with someone imposing something that is not anywhere in the rules or Guide. This would be especially hard to do if you are not that player's regular DM.
#5 Kalani Mar 29, 2015 21:22:40	If you notice - none of these consequences are intended to last beyond the current session, with the exception of fines and forced downtime expenditures (which have an immediate effect).   Even in the case of an NPC issuing a fine or putting the PC in prison - the deduction only occurs if the PC willingly takes their punishment. If they dodge the fine, or escape prison - that carries its own risk/reward (most likely with a warrant being issued)   My suggestions are intended for those DMs who want to discourage disruptive characters with ingame consequences and are far less severe than most of the DMs questions (I have seen a half dozen questions asking if you can expel a character from a faction for example)
#6 abanathie Mar 30, 2015 0:26:38	Kalani wrote:
#7 Kalani Mar 30, 2015 0:59:23
#8 Kalani Mar 30, 2015 1:00:23	As I said previously - my suggested consequences are only for In character consequences and are intended for situations in which the Player is not necessarily being disruptive, but their character screwed up.
#9 abanathie Mar 30, 2015 1:03:51	Kalani wrote:
#10 Ravix Mar 30, 2015 3:56:05	I like the idea, I'd run it by the campaign staff though.  This kinda stuff could a few unhappy people make. (specifically the downtime and renown stuff)
#11 Pauper Mar 30, 2015 8:38:53	If a party performs actions that aren't in the 'canon' version of the scenario, then those actions don't really 'happen' from the game world's perspective. This might cause issues for a DM who likes to maintain some degree of continuity in her own table's story, but it's not really a problem for the campaign -- if the party burns down the Laughing Goblin in DDEX 1-2, for instance, the Goblin will be right back and ready for the party to visit in DDEX 1-3.   Given this, it's difficult to justify penalizing characters for activities that, in effect, never happened in the game world.   There's certainly support for not awarding renown if players mess up their faction mission to the point where it cannot be completed, and also for not awarding NPC payments if the party doesn't actually perform the actions requested by the NPC (so, for instance, if the party lets Spernik go in DDEX 1-5, they wouldn't get the reward from the Lord Sage for bringing him to justice).   -- Pauper
#12 Coredump00 Mar 30, 2015 8:41:18	The "problem" is that we are on the honor system... and I am glad.  Yes you will get bad players, and bad DMs, but there really isn't much you can do about that, even with piling on restictive rules.  For every bad player that gets 'fixed' with restrictive rules, you have a good player screwed by a bad DM... *and* 1,000's of players and DMs being hassled by the added paperwork/rules/etc.   A Player wants to kill the Zhent contact?  Okay, so another one shows up, and the Blackfists take the PC into custody. Maybe the PC gets out.... but not in time to help with the adventure. No gold, No XP. Bummer dude... Or the Zhents jump him and kill the PC..... maybe the other players bring him back to town for a raise dead, maybe not.  Or the Zhent contact turns out to be a lot more powerful than suspected... and kills the PC... maybe he gets raised, maybe it take so long he misses the adventure. Or, if the killing isn't that much of a problem, its allowed to stand and the DM works around it.   Now, it seems in abanathie's situation, they have bad players and bad DMs and a weak coordinator.... just not a lot that can be done about that.  You may be able to contact the actual LC, or the RC and they may be able to have some effect.... but can't say for sure.     Also, I see nothing stopping DMs from issuing 'permantent' repurcussions.... they just may not stick.  First the player may not write them down, or a subsequent DM may reverse the call.  DMs can't physically change a logsheet, but that isn't the same thing.  But in reality, if a player is willing to be that much of a douche, I doubt he will 'volunteer' the info to a subsequent DM.
#13 TheBreen Mar 30, 2015 11:06:43	After thinking about this topic for a while, I believe the only effective way to "cure" bad behavior—in game or out—is to get the word out to other DMs.   My belief is that most players don't hop from venue to venue much. That is, while "portability" is an important feature of AL, I think most people mostly play a given character at the same FLGS and/or local conventions time after time. I'm not discussing the odd corner case here.   That said, if there's a player who is causing problems of whatever type the best thing (in my opinion) is to mention it to the other DMs at the venue. For instance, if there's four regular DMs at your FLGS and a player is causing you problems, talk to the other three DMs about it. They may offer a better way to handle the player at the table, or you may reach consensus on how to curb the problem. Another benefit is that the player is more likely to see consistent consequences which make the PC's actions less desireable for the player.   Trying to work out a range of so-called appropriate punishments here for a wide variety of hypothetical actions seems a bit too contrived to me. In my experience the "flavor" of play is slightly different at different venues, so what seems right at, say, Kalani's location may not work at, say, Coredump00's location.
#14 CahPahkah Mar 30, 2015 12:09:23	TheBreen wrote:
#15 abanathie Mar 30, 2015 13:08:26	TheBreen wrote:
(Reply to #15) Coredump00	abanathie wrote:
#17 Oraibi Apr 02, 2015 4:02:15	I'm not keen on the idea of the DM charging mandatory downtime since that power doesn't seem to be one given to DMs anywhere in the AL docs.   Heck, I don't even think you should be able to penalize characters' renown if they play the adventure.
#18 AlHazred Apr 02, 2015 6:32:37	Kalani wrote:
#19 Kalani Apr 02, 2015 8:07:28	Gah, don't you hate it when you get autocorrected on a word that exists.
#20 Coredump00 Apr 02, 2015 13:52:45	No no no...  the PC obviously got the enmity because he thought the Blackfist song was about him....   (Now we see who is old enough to remember Carly Simon)
#21 BRJN Apr 02, 2015 18:13:44	Coredump00 wrote: