Specifically addressing the world guide, that is something that would need to come directly from WOTC and is not something the Admins in the DnDAL can give you. That said, I am writting a series of posts specifically about Phlan. The first one is finished and is with the Community Managers to be posted (http://dndadventurersleague.org/) when the next post goes up.
For mentors, they sort of exist. Each faction has a faction contact that reappears in most of the Expeditions. That contact offers aid, advice, sometimes items, etc...
Hey look, the post is up right now!
biotech66 wrote:
Adding my 2ep.
biotech66 wrote:
1) For organization, I just see a block of text. I don't like blocks of text. It's never fun to read or reread, and it feel a bit like a textbook. I do see how it's a pain to edit more text, but I just don't like the current layout. Its an adventure, and I can run it fine. But, some layout changes would really help. Maybe I'm the only one whining about that part though.
2)I thought you would have more plans for the mentor thing. Right now its nebulous, and that's fine. Having an evolving thing is fine, but I know I have players asking questions. Telling them to wait and see is ok for now. But, I think they will need some guidance at least on how to mentor others up through the ranks. Otherwise, the mentor thing will just become a way for higher level characters to pass items to their lower level characters and not build friendships in the AL.
3)I hear all the arguments against staring above level 1, but I still don't agree with them. I absolutely love the Pathfinder pregens. Every power is explained and the mechanics are clear to newer players. DnD5e has better mechanics that are simpler, so I think the same format, AL could do better than PFS. You are all right that we won't have a ton of higher level adventures too soon, but we will sooner than later. Also, as someone who runs one game day a month, I know my higher level PCs won't want to start new characters every year. Heck, I'd be happy with token 1st level pregens that I can give out besides the ones from the intro box set. Right now, I've run a few tables of people where two of exact same character were paired up for another group of the exact same character.
4) I'm just happy that they posted the new guide to Phlan. That is an amazing document that makes me happy. Why didn't this get better coverage! This is exactly what I want. Now to just get one for the rest of the world....
None of my comments are deal breakers though. For the most part, I love the AL. I would just like a few changes to make things better. Changes or no changes, I'll still be running DnD5e at my local store for the time to come.
biotech66 wrote:
Organization: Over the years this has changed again and again. I have always found it helpful when there was an easy way to see the 'crunchy bits' at a glance. It speeds things up, and helps to not miss something.
Pregens: Perhaps if the only way to start beyond lvl 1 was via pregen, and those would not necessarily be optimized power builds. It would stop the munchkin aspect, but still allow people to jump in if that was the only option. (oh, and make any magic items non-tradeable)
Workaround: For modules that were not organized as I preferred, I would use a highlighter to draw out the details I needed at a glance.
Hoo boy! You have to log in every hour around here to keep up! ;o)
1) Stat blocks, et al. Not a big deal for me. As I said, I do my own index cards, and I've done a lot of copy editing.
2) Pre-generated PCs. Pretty easy to do at first level. I created at least a half-dozen just to figure out which I wanted to play first. It helps that I created a database to handle all the math. 
WAY more difficult at higher levels because there's a ton of options and personal opinions.
3) NPCs as mentors. A mentor is not the same as a faction contact. Until you're ready to have a complete framework for the mentors don't release the kraken… er, NPC mentors.
4) Guide to Phlan. I like it, and I'd love to know more. Sadly, I'm not on the campaign staff. (The map is from Dungeon #170, Monument of the Ancients.)
5) Wish list. This version of "organized play" is my first since, practically, Living City, so the differences are stark to me. The most striking is that it's not really a "campaign" in the sense that LC was; it's a collection of parallel story arcs. In LC, almost any character could play in any adventure*. There were instructions—in some cases completely different opponents—for PCs of different levels and there was no "leveling out" of an adventure.
Here, however, you have to have a different PC for each story arc if you play them to conclusion. One PC to play Lost Mines of Phandelver, which should take the characters to at least 5th level and disqualify them from other (current) AL events. You'll need another PC to play Horde of the Dragon Queen. That one will take you to level 7 or 8, and far, FAR to the north of the rest of the adventures. And then you play The Rise of Tiamat. Then there are the (Expeditions?) adventures in the Phlan area. Once again, you need a new PC of 4th level or less (1st level preferred) to play those.
Three fairly linear stories but not a real campaign. So my wish is to develop adventures in and around Phlan to turn at least that part of the AL play into a real campaign. Where do I submit my treatment?
Thanks for your time.
__________
*Eventually a high-level campaign option was begun for PCs level 10 and up, and characters retired when they reached 13th level after around a million (2nd edition) experience points.
I'd like to pipe up here while this topic is 'fresh' and the points are being debated.
Please never allow higher level entrance points to AL. I really dont care if this happened in LFR (as I never played it). To me it cheapens the work that players have done to get their character from Level 1 to where they are now on the proviso (thats iffy at best) that a new player will want to join in at 4th level or 7th level etc.
Like has been mentioned previously it happens in Pathfinder. THis does not make that a good thing. Pregens should really only be run there if you need 'player' numbers to make up the table (ie the 4th character is run as a DM NPC).
TheBreen wrote:
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Also while I'm asking for a pony from all the AL devs and writers out there, I'd like some ties to the novels. I like the novels, but reading them doesn't really give you much of a bonus outside of realms lore (which is good enough), but I'd love you you took a nod from Pathfinder and give out the reading bonuses. Heck, having a thing I can check off for free advantage against devils three times would make me pretty happy because I read Fire in the Blood!
biotech66 wrote:
biotech66 wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
Honestly, I'd feel more lost as a new(ish) player starting at a high level than at level 1. You have your own powers from level 1, and there aren't very many. As you level you gain some more little by little. But if you plop down at level 10, you might get lost in a swath of numbers and words.
"Wait, so can ANY character do this, or just mine?"
And then gameplay might slow unneccessarily, causing both rookies and veterans to not want to return. Yes I know this can happen at any level of play, but I feel that insta-starting at higher level is more vulnerable to it
(this is from my own experience, both personally, and with friends who have experienced similar things. Albeit it was never in an Adventure League setting, I feel it's still relevant)
biotech66 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
biotech66 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Czar_Cascade wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
Czar_Cascade wrote:
Depending on how things develop, I could see pregens having no or extremely restricted magic items, even at higher levels. It seems like at a certain point a fighter is going to be sub-par without a +1 weapon to overcome DR but that's about it. If they don't have any items, it would mean that they would get first pick of items which would be a downside.
As to the super-munchkin argument, I'm not sure it's valid. According to the devs there are going to be fewer splat books with less opportunity for cheese. But ... munchkins are going to be munchkins and I don't think there is anything we can do to stop it. In our area we have a group that had for LFR the most broken group imaginable and all the characters (doing epic last I heard) were perfectly legal.
Or just limit characters created at a higher level to options from the PHB. All options other than those spelled out in the PHB are optional.
Pauper wrote:
Czar_Cascade wrote:
How would people feel if there pre-gens at some specific levels (maybe 1, 5, and 11) and if you played one and took it as your PC, it could not ever retrain what it has could only level up under your play from where it is. Also, it likely has little or no magic items other than some bare minimum appropriate to its level? (not saying its even being considered, just wonder what posters think.)
Skerrit wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
I've already come out as not in favor of allowing characters to start play above 1st level. However…
The Adventurers League* already has pregen characters, albeit at 1st level. There are:
a Wizard with the Acolyte background;
a Rogue with the Criminal background;
two Fighters (one with the Noble background and one with the Folk Hero background; and
a Cleric with the Soldier background.
These characters already include the "upgrades" they get each time they level up through 5th level. Why not simply continue this progression up to whatever level is required (which I would say is the minimum level for the Tier of the adventure; e.g. 5th at Tier 2, 9th at Tier 3, etc.)?
This would, of course, offer simple pre-built characters for new players who want to join a story arc in progress (e.g., halfway through Horde of the Dragon Queen).
Since simplicity is the key for new players, using only these "core" classes, which rely only on rules the player can download for free, these characters would get the player up and running quickly. Just slap on a name and go. Standard equipment bundles for each level (or Tier) would be pre-printed on the character sheet, along with brief explanations of any magic items owned. Spell selections would be limited to the then-current Basic rules, which will likely need to keep pace with campaign development anyway.
Munchkins would not be a problem, because the characters could only be optimized in play, to wit: you must start with the pregen character as written, until you actually earned treasure and experience which allows you to upgrade (e.g., by gaining a level or finding a magic item). Pregens would, of course, not start with any tradeable magic items (no certs). Further, by building these characters according to the Basic rules, you avoid many of the, uh, "debates" we've had on questions like Goodberry, Find Familiar, Find Steed, and so on.
OoftaMeg wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
I do lean (unofficially) towards the idea that if we ever did allow pre-gens, we would only ever allow the basic four from the starter set (albeit at some other levels). You would only get the items, builds, etc... that are on those PCs and wouldn't make your own pre-gen.
I only jumped into this thread as last night we have a regular group that meets and we're in episode 3 of HotDQ. A person came into the store and asked to step in and give it a try. As everyone was level 3, it felt odd giving him a level 1 and there was a short debate on mechanics - just give him a pregen with level 3 hit points or stay at level 1 etc.... He ended up just watching and leaving after about 15 minutes.
In hindsight, a level 1 would probably be ok hanging in the back given the mechanics of 5e, but deep into the caves, we had been having some tougher times.
Edit: I'm not suggesting that any of the pregen ideas would have corrected the situation...just my reasoning for jumping in.
OoftaMeg wrote:
Czar_Cascade wrote:
OoftaMeg wrote:
Proposal: Level 5 Pre-Gen Ability
Adventurer's League Tier-1 Trainer
At the end of any adventure, this character can train one of your other characters of Level 1-4. Instead of applying the XP, GP, and Downtime days for the completed adventure to this character, apply it to the other PC. During the training, this character tells that PC all about the adventure, passing along knowledge of all relevant story elements and events. Each time you use this training, the PC that receives the benefit counts as having received 1 magic item for the purposes of dividing treasure at the end of Adventurer's League adventures.
How about just giving a different selections of items to the pre-leveler? Non-certed items.
Otherwise someone could just show up with a 5th or 11th level pregen (no magic items) and select some desireable item and then sell it on ebay.
Or you could bring along "your buddy with the pregen" and no magic items, he takes the item and then signs it over to you.
Some interesting ideas here; I like the discussion.
Something Uthrac wrote really hit home for me, because I'd noticed it without really comprehending it. I ran DDEX 1-1 last weekend, and most of the PCs got in three of the scenarios, just enough to hit level 2. This weekend, I'll be running DDEX 1-2, and anybody from the previous weekend who plays, assuming the group gets max XP, will hit level 3. If you just play two Tier 1 Expeditions modules (excepting Defiance in Phlan, because of the episodic nature of the mod), you'll be level 3 even if you get minimum XP from both mods. And every such character will already have the downtime days to take advantage of the 'catching up' downtime activity at level 4. The only hardship for the player of such a character is the 1800 XP he has to earn to go from level 3 to level 4, and that's three or four additional mods depending (or perhaps even just two mods if later mods have been optimized for higher level characters with correspondingly higher XP awards).
In some places, that 1800 XP climb might take half a year (one mod every 6-8 weeks), which is a pretty long time. In other places, that might be as little as a month (one mod each week). Either is probably too long for someone who wants to jump into the full swing of Adventurers League the first day they show up at the game store, so the question becomes, is it realistic for someone who just finds out about AL two months from now (before the new storyline season has started) to be able to jump in and participate as if they'd been involved from day one?
(Keeping in mind that, if they find out when the new storyline season starts, the issue is possibly moot, since they can just join the new season at level 1 with no issue, which I'm guessing is part of the reason the campaign is structured that way.)
--
Pauper
Question:
Will season 1 of Expeditions (and Im not talking Encounters here at all) still be legal top play after the next season of encounters starts next March? Ie Will I be able to play DDEX 1-1 Defiance in Phlan and then DDEX2-1 Snowtime in Calimsham? with the same character?
Potentially yes. We have not yet announced a retirement schedule, though I don't expect it to be so quick.
Uthrac wrote:
We will continue to release 5-10 mods, so while the new threat/plot starts at level 1, its not like your PC from ToD is done with. You could play the new 5-10s with your ToD PC, or wait on them and play them with your new PC. Also note that the new plot in Expeditions still has some ties to the previous season. Nothing that prevents a new PC from playing them, but there is continuity. It's not a 100% new reset.
Each season does not go to level 20 on its own.
Undrhil wrote:
While we're talking about experience points and advancement, have you guys seen the "XP per Adventuring Day per Player Character" chart on p. 58 of the DM Basic Rules (DMDnDBasicRules_v0.1.pdf)?
If I'm reading it correctly, it shows how many experience points' worth of encounters a PC can handle in a day before needing a long rest. If adventures are built this way, advancement is fast. As in, one day you're a hayseed farmer-turned-adventurer, and five [game] weeks later you're a retired 20th-level superhero. That's fast!
Obviously, characters don't actually adventure every single day, and adventures aren't all built to have maximum xp-per-long-rest, but this is still food for thought.
Level XP per Day Days to Level Up Running Total Character Level
1 300 1 300 2
2 600 1 900 3
3 1,200 2 3,300 4
4 1,700 2 6,700 5
5 3,500 3* 17,200 6
6 4,000 2 25,200 7
7 5,000 2 35,200 8
8 6,000 3 53,200 9
9 7,500 2 68,200 10
10 9,000 2 86,200 11
11 10,500 2 107,200 12
12 11,500 2 130,200 13
13 13,500 1 143,700 14
14 15,000 2 173,700 15
15 18,000 2 209,700 16
16 20,000 1 229,700 17
17 25,000 2 279,700 18
18 27,000 1 306,700 19
19 30,000 1 336,700 20
20 40,000 1 376,700 Forced retirement.
*After this point they're really fractional days, so I round up to the next complete day.
For running HotDQ for level one characters, it worked ok for my players. They did well, had fun, but did take a bit of a beating. Not enough to kill them, but enough to make them realize, DnD5e don't play around like 4e. Your leve one wizard can't be a front line fighter if he/she/it intends to be a level two wizard.
As for the whole pregen discussion, I really like the idea of set level pregens with NON-tradable items and no going back on their abilties and features. I know I haven't seen the high level DnD5e play, but I don't think lack of magic items will completely break it like 4e. You will not be as awesome, but you can still hit. I would like to see some more character options. I like the pregens out there, but options will provide a better experience. Also, by setting up the pregens smart from the get go, you end up with options without allows people to just cheat their way to items as well as putting a stop to the min-maxers out there. Also, I think a pregen should have less awesome items than a standard leveled up character, not by a ton mind you, but enough. This will keep players playing instead of trying to trick the system. Not sure why people woudl want to do that, but people are stupid.
Glad to spark a ton of talk about this game. I wish people just want to play intead of the few who just want to screw around with the rules. I hate when people figure out bag of rat solutions to RPGs.
Nice chart!
Back on to the thread topic ...
I'd like to see "ADAP" style guidelines for future home-play style adventures that are being admissable for home play as an appendix to the Player's Guide.
i.e. If you are playing Hoard of the Dragon Queen, when you finish each episode here are the Rewards (and include a section such as the one at the end of each DDEX adventure).
Home play should encourage "off-script" DMing, but the rewards given to a PC planning to transition to Organized Play should fit within some perscribed guidelines. (i.e. Avoid things like, "Our DM let us collect all of the dragon eggs and sell them for 100,000 gp, so we each got 20,000 gp shares at the end of the Episode.)
Uthrac wrote:
Uthrac wrote:
I'd set up Phlan with a dome to keep out the darn dragons! :P
Czar_Cascade wrote:
TheBreen wrote: