This topic has come up a lot recently and I decided to compile a list of ways characters can circumvent resistance/immunity to non-magical weapons. Magic weapons are very rare in expeditions (I only know of 2), so in order to get a magic weapon you will likely have to play a module such as HOTDQ, LMOP, and POTA. But for those who don't want to or can't play in these modules, they need an answer to the higher CR creatures that have resistance/immunity to non-magical weapons.
The following list assumes your character is built around dealing weapon damage so you will prefer weapon damage when you can feasibly and effectively deal damage with your weapon. The list also assumes you are only using the Player's Handbook. Any additional options available to you through Elemental Evil Player's Companion should be covered under Spells/Cantrips anyway. Here are all the ways I have found for each class to get around damage resistance/immunity from non-magic weapons:
All classes -
1. Have a Magic Weapon
2. Cast Spells and/or Cantrips if available to your class
3. Be a High Elf with an attack cantrip
4. Multiclass to gain cantrips/spells (Druid seems like a good option for Shillelagh/Magic Stone)
5. Bandolier of Acid/Alchemist's fire flasks
6. Magic Initiate/Spell Sniper feat
7. Hope you have a Wizard in your party to cast Magic Weapon
8. Hope you have a Druid in your party to cast Magic Stone
9. Attack with a torch (only 1 fire damage, but still effective against Flesh Golems, and almost everyone has torches in their starting kit)
10. Shove the creature off a cliff, into a pit, into lava, etc (falling damage and damage from hazards usually is not considered weapon damage)
Barbarian - none
Bard -
1. Level 10 Magical Secrets Ability - Take Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, etc.
2. Level 6 (Lore Bard only) - Magical Secrets (Not an optimal choice for a weapon based character)
Cleric -
1. Level 3 (War Domain only) - Magic Weapon as a Domain Spell
Druid -
1. Level 1 - Shillelagh
2. Level 1 - Magic Stone (Elemental Evil only)
3. Level 6 (Moon Druid only) - Primal Strike
Fighter -
1. Level 8 (Eldritch Knight only) - Choose Magic Weapon as a known spell
Monk -
1. Level 3 - Way of the Four Elements: Fangs of the Fire Snake (Water Whip and Fist of Unbroken Air should work too since all Way of the Four Elements disciplines are magical; even if your DM rules that Ki is not magical, it's not a weapon attack so not subject to damage resistance vs weapons)
2. Level 6 - Ki-Empowered Strikes
Paladin -
1. Level 1 (Oath of Devotion Only) - Channel Divinity
2. Level 1 - Smite Damage from Smite spells or Divine Smite(Weapon damage still resisted)
3. Level 5 - Magic Weapon Paladin Spell
4. Level 9 - Elemental Weapon Paladin Spell
Ranger -
1. Level 1 - Ensnaring Strike , Hunter's Mark, Hail of Thorns, etc. (Weapon damage still resisted)
2. Level 9 - Flame Arrows
Rogue - :
1. Level 8 (Arcane Trickster only) - Choose Magic Weapon as a known spell
Sorcerer - Not an optimal choice for a weapon based character
Warlock -
1. Level 3 - Pact of the Blade, get a free magic weapon
Wizard - Not an optimal choice for a weapon based character
1. Level 3 - Prepare Magic Weapon (Most likely to cast on someone else)
So it seems like the classes that are in trouble without finding a magic weapon are:
1. Fighter (non Eldritch Knight
2. Rogue (non Arcane Trickster)
3. Barbarian
4. Ranger (though they have a few spells that can sort of help, but in a minor way)
If one of these classes are present at your table, it would be a polite gesture to let them take the magic weapon if one is found, as all other classes have viable options without a magic weapon. Please let me know if I missed anything. I'm sure there are many more options I need to add.
ranger also gain spell they can use to imbue their weapon.
Divine smite from the paladin temporaryly imbue the weapon with divine energy, so the weapon is consider magic for that hit. (with improved divine smite at level 11, all melee weapon wield by the paladin are magic since they alway have divine energy imbue in the weapon while being hold.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
If you imbue your weapon with magical energy your weapon become magic. So yes divine smite make your weapon magic, Flamme arrow make your arrow magic, ensnarin strike make your weapon magic, Hail of thorn is also making your ammunition magic etc...
Ranger also got hunter mark, true hunter mark will nto make your weapon magic, but the 1d6 damage from hunter mark is magical damage.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Rangers can get ensnaring smite, but it's a single hit for a spell slot. Their best bet is using a feat to grab an attack cantrip from Cleric or Druid list (since they use Wis as the casting stat already)
The other three on your list may well have dumped all the usual casting stats and find themselves in trouble with no stat high enough to support an attack cantrip... Although my DM did say he would allow me to beat a werewolf to death with my magic shield (improvised weapon, but I was proficient due to Tavern Brawler), I would rather have had a magic weapon and that wasn't AL.
If I were playing at a table with a wizard who tried to claim a magic dagger when a fighter or rogue did not have a magic weapon yet, I think I might find a different table. They don't take my scrolls, I don't take their weapons, everyone is happy.
Season 2 characters also have access to Magic Stone (Druid or Warlock). This cantrip conjures 3 magic stones which deal magical damage, and can be given to any PC.
reddaemon wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
A wizard can and should prepare magical weapon if they want to without someone asking "Why aren't you casting spells?" It's a concept of teamwork. The wizard casts magical weapon on another's weapon and then casts spells. It's called teamwork, and teamwork buffing wizards aren't something to be belittled.
abanathie wrote:
abanathie wrote:
This is a good thread. I hadn't even considered how far up a creek my Paladin is, 4th level and never having seen anything remotely magical.
Also, you missed the 3rd-level Paladin spell Elemental Weapon. Of course, both EW and Magic Weapon require concentration, so I probably wouldn't prepare it anyway unless I either had nothing to prepare or knew in advance that I would need it.
TheBreen wrote:
Pauper wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Qwerty's logic means that casting "Light" on a weapon makes it a magical weapon. It is not.
Just because something is effected by magic, does not make it a magical item.
Further, neither Divine Smite nor the 3 Smite spells I checked, say anything about 'imbueing' the weapon. They just say you do extra damage on the next hit.
As for most of the other 'examples' he gives. The game defaults to an Earth normal medieval fantasy. That is why we know what water is, how gravity works, what a sword looks like. That is why they used those terms.
For exceptions to this (like quantifying damage, describing magic, fantastical creatures, etc) the rules must supply us the info.
With that being said - a (small) weapon conjured by minor conjugation is magical (being a fragile magical construct). What constitutes "damage" however is subject to DM approval so some DMs may have it wink out after a single attack (against metal armor or equivalent defense) while others might allow it to stick around until it is specifically targeted for an attack.
Sounds more like you want to get rid of resistance..... I mean whats the point of it if everyone has the proper tool to bypass it?
QwertyAzerty wrote:
RCanine wrote:
My table of 3rd level characters defeated a CR 5 water elemental tonight without anyone dying...the only magic weapon the party has is in a bag and nobody will use it...because if u have to use a dagger it is like everything has resistance anyways...So they had to do about 150 damage to it accounting for Shilleliegh a couple Eldritch Blasts and a Magic Weapon spell. They only did like 20 damage in the first round and about the same in round 2...Then they used Bless and Magic Weapon and Faerie Fire, hunter's mark, and Hex, and got like 3 crits. and did like 90 damage in round 3.
Was a much less deadly monster than I thought it would be. But I think they were on edge and it was their first fight of the day and they had to rest immediately after. I felt like they had fun, which is the point 
We had a new player tonight who had never played any RPGs or MMOs, and after he said it was his new favorite game. So hopefully he keeps gaming!
RCanine wrote:
Once again Coredumb as usual speak without knowing what he's saying twisting my word to make me sound unreasonable.
The OP is saying that having a full season with mainly resistance monster in a setting with almost no magicaal weapon to overcome it, will cause problem.
Resistance in a FEW fights (like the rare Helm horror in HotDQ) is great since it's an interesting mechanic when use with MODERATION. But but I'm assuming that in season 3 who is advertise as a season with DEMON as the main objective, the PC will encounter more then just a few demons. (yes it is an ASSUMPTION and I hope that with the current magical item state, that the writer will make the demon a rare encounter untill player have access to ways to by-pass the resistance). If most enccounter are against demon who resist damage, then it could become tedious quickly.
I think your complaints, based entirely on assumptions (most fights will be demons, PCs will have no magic weapons in that season, the writers/admins are incompetant and haven't noticed this so all of us are going to die and never play again) are unfounded. We have heard your volumuous compaints and I suggest you wait and see what the adventures actually are before going on further.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
QwertyAzerty wrote:
wow. I thought the OP was listing the ways for someone that didn't actually have a +1 or other magic weapon to make attacks that count as being magical for overcoming resistance to non-magic weapons. I read the whole thing, twice, and I never once got the feeling he was complaining about anything - he just compiled a helpful list.
On the original post... for Bard, I would take Shillelagh before Magic Weapon (non-concentration cantrip vs concentration level 2 spell). wait... you can take a cantrip with Magic Secrets, right?
You could also list the level where magic weapon resistance can be overcome without a found magic weapon
Monk - Level 6 (Class Feature)
Paladin - Level 5 (Access to Magic Weapon Spell)
Bard - Level 6 (Lore) or Level 10 (Valor) for Magic Secrets
I still think the toughest will be Fighter, Rogue and Barbarian, followed only slightly by Ranger (at least a ranger *has* a casting stat to poach a cantrip for)
Thanks everyone for your continued input. I have updated the OP with the level that each feature is gained.
Just to clarify, I didn't make this thread to complain about the lack of magic weapons in expeditions (there is a separate and more effective channel for that). My goal with this thread is to make everyone aware of all the options available to them to counter resistance/immunity. It is not only going to be an issue for players in season 3, it's an issue for some players now. I have run expeditions that have Flesh Golems in them, another one that had Elementals, and I just ran one recently that had gargoyles. I didn't mean for the thread to come off as a complaint, but a tool to help players make the most of what they have available to them (as well as make myself aware of the options I didn't know about).
At level 3, monks can take the Way of the Four Elements.
The Elemental Discipline Fangs of the Fire Snake is available at level 3.
Fangs converts your unarmed strikes (melee weapon/bludgeoning) into fire damage.
Admittedly, a lot of things have fire resistance, but it's there.
SterlingRat wrote:
Pauper wrote:
No it does not. The spells gained from magical secret are accounted for in your total spells known (on the bard table) - however, if you choose a cantrip your character will have +1 cantrip, and -1 spell known (compared to the average bard).
Kalani wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
I used to think the same way, until I was shown the error of my ways. The relevant passage is easily overlooked.
Magical Secrets
By 10th level, you have plundered magical knowledge from a w ide spectrum of disciplines. Choose two spells from any class, including this one. A spell you choose must be of a level you can cast, as shown on the Bard table, or a cantrip.
The chosen spells count as bard spells for you and are included in the number in the Spells Known column of the Bard table.
You learn two additional spells from any class at 14th level and again at 18th level.
Fangs of the Fire Snake is actually a weapon attack, in that your unarmed melee attacks are weapon attacks. Fist of Unbroken Air and Water Whip are not actually weapon attacks, and would automatically circumvent the restriction the same as casting any other 'spell', which is why I didn't include them.
Deployed Caltrops also deal damage without explicitly being a weapon.
Coating something in lantern oil and then applying a torch is also an effective technique.
A hunting trap would also be able to deal damage without explicitly being a weapon, though it might be challenging to get a creature to step into it.
Kalani wrote:
See... Not infalible lol. I completely missed the "or cantrip" line. That line only reinforces my point however.... .Any ability which fails to specifically state "cantrip", does not grant the ability to choose said.
I know what you mean -- I've done that more than once just this week!
RCanine wrote:
MaximumPain wrote:
Alter self gives you an option of creating magical claws or other natural weapon on your body...
The original idea of the thread is laudable -- for those who are concerned with not being able to work around resistance/immunity to weapon damage, here are ways you can do that within the AL rules even if you don't have a magic weapon as treasure.
The resulting discussion, as most are on the Internet, has been hit-and-miss.
--
Pauper
QwertyAzerty wrote:
So, theoretical person wants to play in season 3. He shows up for session 1, watches a bunch of people roll up characters and get handed out Players Guides and Players Companions for a season titled 'Rage of Demons'. But somehow he does not notice that Demons are a theme in the season?
I would like to actually assume that they will take that into account in their adventure design...but as I have said on other threads, I feel like the magic item distribution is flat out horrible in season 1 and 2. Unless you play through specific expeditions and episodes then you basically only have access to a +1 longbow, Hazirawn, and Rezsur(+1dagger). Or Orcsplitter. There are also the 4 elemental weapons which have player-controlled 'flaws'...Note how none of these items are actually of a 'good' weapon variety(except Hazirawn). The first time I read through PotA I thought the PCs had to destroy all the elemental weapons to 'win'...but that does not appear to actually be the case...If the profits get killed, there seems to be no repurcussions for keeping the weapons...except the last one, since the PCs may or may not -have- to sacrifice it to survive.
There is 1 random dragon hoard in RoT and The Dark Ladies treasure in PotA tells the DM to give out rewards appropriate to each PC. I am not really sure if the DM can generate magic items for these rewards...There would obviously be no certs, but the rules say certs aren't actually required, only that the rewards are logged. The text of the modules would seem to contradict the rules in the FAQ, which honestly looked worded very strange in response to the very specific question that was asked. I felt like someone just looked at the question with no knowlege of the context and only answered the question 'can GMs hand out magic items whenever they want?'....if only mundane items and consumeables are allowed, I guess you just populate the dragons hoard with a bunch of scrolls of Resurrection and Wish and a few spellbooks with 100 levels of spells each in them. I would much rather give the players things they want and/or need. These would be appropriate places for PCs to acquire useable weapons.
Additionally the 'end' of PotA tells the DM to basically hand out unspecified consumeables to the party so they can fight the boss again if they get their asses kicked the first time. Feels sloppy.
RCanine wrote:
Byakugan01 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
RCanine wrote:
In an environment where the supply and flow of magic items is heavily constrained, yes i think the overall items are horrible.
Stuff isn't cool just because it is magical. It needs to be useful. If you are tracking encumberance then Bags of Holding are sweet! In AL they are a cursed item that serves almost no function. Treasure just gets turned into gold automatically, so except for a few cute things, AL people look at that and go 'hrmm' if I take this I won't be able to get a -real- magic item later.
If you were using a greatsword...the +1 dagger is the equivalent of 'All creatures take 50-75% less damage from you'. So you are better off using your mundane sword cus it deals 7.5 instead of 3.5.
Shrug on HotDQ. Our DM deleted the dagger of venom, and we never found a +1 longsword. Only the bow and Hazirawn. We killed Rezmir at the end of chapter 5.
Byakugan01 wrote:
I would log that under my 'cute things' label. You could keep a number of interesting things...but the majority of those things you could just carry yourself anyways, or have your party members carry for you. The bear totem barbarian can carry about 6 interns for you without breaking a sweat. And really, how often are you going to have a fight where your pets die but you don't end up with fresh bodies afterwards? Staff of Defense...useful. Staff of Fire...useful. Non-magic spear that counts as a permanent magic item and keeps you from getting 'actual' magic items because daylight charges....not useful....Wand of Magic Detection...WTF!?
Yes, it was "cute". About as "cute" as asking the same barbarian to carry your luggage every adventure. To answer your question, two... In the same adventure. If you're looking for more data, two out of three combat encounters. The other question seemed rhetorical... I'll skip it unless you want my answers to it...
Byakugan01 wrote:
Byakugan01 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Well the title of the thread was about resistant creatures. So I was focusing on the things that the game is mechanically designed to work against said creatures.
i don't know which came first, the damage resistant chicken, or the +1 egg.
You are welcome to nitpick the % i chose to express without addressing the point I was making. I don't really think using gargoyles or helmed horrors are good examples. Although i do find it funny that gargoyles and HHs are supposed to be rare, but they are featured in both seasons sofar. Gargoyles are used several times. There are actually a lot of monsters in season 2 that are resistant to weapons. Elementals, gargoyles, helmed horror, spectres, perytons, thats just the ones From part 1 and the random encounter chart i can remember.
As far as my personal experience went in hotDQx we only got through episode 5. Rezmir was our 'final boss' and we got the black dragon mask and hazirawn. This was i think session 32. The BDM was claimed by a level 2 character that joined halfway through chapter 5 and only came to 2 sessions. His buddy had another level 2 character that claimed the insignia of the claw, then neither of them ever came back. Our rogue who was at all 30 of the sessions I was part of couldnt claim anything because he had goggles of night, and 2 other characters had ioun stones of protection so they were ineligible. We specifically searched the location for the dagger of venom, and the DM deleted it. He also deleted Asbara Jos's spellbook. Results may vary I guess.
While many DMs have done this, the black dragon mask and hazirawn are not available as treasure until Ep8. I don't fault such DMs however, as the adventure is written somewhat ambiguously on this front.
My quick $0.02, having just played an Encounter with creatures with non-magical b/p/s resistance. A permanent magic weapon was very helpful, indeed.
Kalani wrote:
The directive that some DMs are not aware of is the fact that they are not empowered to create combat encounters involving Rezmir
While Rezmir shows up briefly in Ep2, Ep5, and Ep6 - none of those encounters are combat encounters and DMs are not empowered to turn them into said.
Ep2: Some DMs have allowed PCs to fight (and kill) Rezmir in this chapter - completely ignoring the fact that such an encounter would occur within earshot of over 100 enemies, who would slaughter the party well before they defeated Rezmir.
Ep5: Rezmir might be seen through a veiled carriage as she is transported elsewhere within a city. This is intended to be a brief appearance to let the players know they are on the right track, however some DMs have allowed open warfare within a metropolitan city without the PCs being arrested. This of course assumes that the PCs see Rezmir first hand, as (depending on their actions) they might only learn of her being present via second-hand information.
Ep6: Rezmir flees as soon as a conflict errupts. DMs are encouraged to do everything in their power to ensure she succeeds. This is perhaps the first opportunity in which the PCs might have an option of defeating her. However, this shoudl only occur if the party peacefully/stealthily invaded the castle; and the DM fails to bring reinforcements. If the party launches an assault on the castle (or trips an alarm) Rezmir teleports away at soonest convenience (long before the party even reaches her).
DME Ambiguity
Sadly, there is ambiguity surrounding DME in AL. While the ALPG does state that DMs are empowered to make changes to the adventure, it is ambiguously worded, leaving many DMs with the mistaken belief they are empowered to change any/all parts of the adventure they see fit. Some DMs have taken this to the point of introducing house rules at their table, or effectively re-writing the adventure to their specifications.
Furthermore, while ambiguously worded in the ALPG - the limits of DME has been explicitly spelled out on the AL website. Unfortunately, not all DMs are aware of these rules, or ignore them (believing them to be of lesser authority). This is compounded by the fact that while the campaign staff has control over the website content, we have little control over the ALPG - and as such, cannot correct any errors or ambiguities it contains.
I'd argue that, if the adventure allows for Rezmir to appear, and the PCs attack him, then it's not the DM's fault that there's an extra combat encounter. (Though if memory serves, an entire party in Episode 2 is almost certainly no match for Rezmir alone, and Rezmir isn't alone.) Especially considering that everything past Episode 4 is Casual Play and has very little campaign guidance.
With that said, it behooves a DM to take adventure prep seriously when running any adventure for AL, but especially the hardcover storyline adventures.
--
Pauper
http://dndadventurersleague.org/orcsplitter/
Boom, problem solved. You can now get ANY +2 weapon (hand crossbow, shortbow, halberd, etc).
RulesJD wrote:
RulesJD wrote:
Pauper wrote:
RulesJD wrote:
Halls of the Hunting Axe, which provides Orcsplitter, is designed for an 11th-level party, according to the text in PotA hardcover. That renders it a Tier 3 adventure.
Ainulindalion wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Byakugan01 wrote:
Yeah thats my bad. Castle Naertyar was the thing we cleared out last. In head was thinking that was ep 5.
Our party snuck in the place and no one escaped to raise an alarm until we got to Azbara's room.
The DM turned the dagger of venom into a 'poisoned dagger trap'. I think he was not really doing any prep or reading the module ahead.
By my math, a GWF greatsword does about 11 (2d6+4) damage per hit, gives an extra attack on crits and u probably are rerolling 1s and 2s. So about 6-7 damage against resistant things.
+1 dagger does average of 7.5 per hit against resistant critters. With no rerolls, or bonus attacks, or using of half the abilities the player chose for his character.
The sword and board player or the raging barb may have deulist/rage which skews numbers better because it applies to dagger. The polearm master is losing bonus attacks and reaction attacks.
So my observation is that either the low magic is intentional and resistant creatures are a conscious decision to marginalize martial characters more often. Or it is just a way for them to effectively add around 50-100% hitpoints to monsters. Many DMs already do this by manually adjusting monster hitpoints to pace the encounters and keep them challenginng.
I really don't like them claiming magic items are not required and then intentionally including many monsters that actually do require magic items to deal normal damage to them.
Ainulindalion wrote:
Primarchx wrote:
Byakugan01 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote: