Princes of the Apocalypse added instances where an AL character could become a lycanthrope. That raises two questions to my mind.
1. Embracing the curse could result in alignment changes to NE/CE, which are prohibited. Is embracing the curse illegal for those lycanthropes?
2. For those who resist the curse, how do you determine the phase of the moon if it's not listed in the adventure? Not everyone has detailed knowledge of Faerun astronomy, so a lore-independent ruling would greatly help those DMs who are new to the Forgotten Realms.
In my personal opinion, lycanthropy shouldn't be an option for player characters in organized play.
(Note that it's not a valid player resource, for one thing, but that's not the only reason.)
This harkens back to contracting vampirism near the end of hoard of the dragon queen. If memory serves me correctly - any player who contracted the disease would be ineligable for play in OP, and as such - DMs should simply ignore it. I don't recall there being an official stance on the issue last season, but given the fact we now have at least 2 adventures where this issue comes up, perhaps it should be revisited.
Were I to hazard a guess, I would probably assume the official stance to be something to the effect of - Spend X downtime days and Y GPs to have Z spell cast to remove the condition (as per the recuperrating rules). Until such times as the condition is removed, the character would be inelligable for play.
I really love the story implications of a lycanthropic PC, but lycanthropy is such a big benefit mechanically that I'm not sure I could justify it. Which bums me out; I wish, when WotC commissioned/designed this stuff, that they thought about how it would work in OP. Interesting thing is that, without a ruling, it works exactly as it says in the book.
why would they?
Its a module thats been co-opted into the AL system. Its hard enough to determine what levels characters should be at for each section considering the characters might go way off agenda into a far more difficult area.
When I get to that part in the book Im just going to make it as if the PCS can never be infected.
RCanine wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
It technically does have a banlist. Currently, that list includes the following:
- Ability Scores: PCs must use standard array or point buy. Rolled Stats are banned.
- HPs: PCs must use static HP for their class. Rolled HPs are banned.
- Races: Aarakocra
- Alignment: NE and CE banned; LE restricted.
- Unearthed Arcana: Banned
- DMG (Optional/Variant Rules): Banned. Playing on a Grid (PHB, DMG, DM Basic Rules) allowed.
- DM Basic Rules: Banned. Restricted use allowed for some spells.
- Monster Manual: Restricted (Appendix A).
- HotDQ (Appendix A): Restricted (Tyranny of Dragons)
- EE Players Companion: Restricted (Elemental Evil). Aarakocra banned.
- Mulmaster Articles (Cloaks, Mulmaster Backgrounds, Elemental Trinkets, etc): Restricted (Elemental Evil).
Oraibi wrote:
For all the lycanthrope that change your alignment to Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil, your character become AL illegal and therefor is unable to join a table unless he's cured imediatly (for the same reason that that a player who's ashes get spread in the sea (from the Mulmaster Arcane Banishment Edict witha 22+ sentencing), need to be true ressurected immediatly, since you cannot bring a dead character to a table and true ressurection is not an option to use downtime so to cure it immediatly is the only AL legal solution based on the 22+ sentencing)
Now for all the Lawful Evil lycanthrope/Vampire, if you are part of anything other then Lord Alliance and Zhentarim you will be kick out of your faction and loose all renown, faction rank and secret mission.
Everything else seem to be up to the DM interpretation untill WotC bring an official ruling.
EDIT: remember that becoming a lycanthrope or a vampire is no excuse to become disruptive, so your vampire cannot drink the blood of the other player or from the quest giver.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
MasterNamer wrote:
Cure Wounds does not heal my vampire. It's undead, and Cure Wounds doesn't work on Undead. My vampire is damaged and needs to heal and regeneration isn't working for some reason.
Is drinking (not killing, not attacking with intent) then disruptive? Absolutely not. Not as long as the other person agrees. Besides, cure wounds will probably work on them.
Yeesh, I don't see it as AL banning stuff. The AL list is a postive one, not a negative one. That is, they list what is allowed rather than listing what is disallowed. And this makes a ton of sense. If I'm a new player, I don't want to be handed a list of obscure crap that isn't even allowed -- like the fighting style from the May 2015 online Unearthed Arcana article. I just want to be told what is allowed. And just give me the simplest and most compact list.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Stormborn20 wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
Guys, we've gone way off course from what I originally asked. The heart of this thread was to discuss the legality of lycanthrope PCs and the implications of embracing/rejecting the curse.
Kalani, if you could please bring this up to the admins as soon as possible, that would be very much appreciated. There's a good chance that one of the tables I organize could produce patient zero within the next few weeks. I want to make sure that my DMs are prepared for the inevitable failed Con save. RNJesus hasn't been looking favorably upon us lately.
I have added this as an FAQ candiate. Until we receive an official answer, I would probably use the following ruling:
Characters afflicted with Lycanthropy or vampirism are not legal (and must be cured before the start of their next adventure/episode)
- These options are not included in the "Allowed Rules" for character creation or advancement, grant powers and abilities unsuitable for OP, and alter a characters alignment to a restricted (or banned) alignment.
- Lycanthropy must be cured with remove curse, which is available as a spellcasting service (90gp)
- Vampirism must be cured with either wish (cast by a PC), or the character being slain, and then resurrected (eg. revify or raise dead). Raise dead is available as a spellcasting service (1,250gp)
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Kalani wrote:
It is more disruptive than aarakocra. It isn't hard to figure out whether this would be allowed or not
Kalani wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
I can see Kalani's point about lycanthropy and vampirism being afflictions. But AL rules don't actually require that you clear up afflictions between adventures -- if, for instance, a character contracts mummy rot, the rules assume that a character will want to get rid of that affliction, but don't require it:
ALPG, p.5 wrote:
Bad example as most afflictions are completely detrimental. There is no way you could argue that someone would willingly suffer from mummy rot. Such is not the case with vampirism or lycanthropy.
It is important to compare like with like. The closest examples to vampirism/lycanthropy would be half-dragons (save for the fact that you cannot be transformed into one).
Lets ignore that point for the moment and instead focus on the bigger picture. Vampirism and lycanthropy are significant power boosts - more so even, than many magic items or divine boons.
The admins have made it clear they want to avoid power creep in AL - which is a major reason behind several rulings (the least of which is story origins and Allowed Rules). Allowing vampirism and/or lycanthropy is power creep of the highest order and would result in a large number of players deliberately pursuing it.
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Pauper wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Keeping the rules/logic/etc aside.... is anyone advocating that it would be a good idea to allow Lycanthropy/Vampirism for AL PCs?
I loved my vampire character in LFR, but that was then.
Vamps/Weres, until a balanced option exists in the form of a character class or class option, are a really bad idea for AL play.
Now, a class designed for PCs who contract the conditions that they're forced to MC into at their next level up or something, that'd be fun...
Coredump00 wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
It occurs in princes of the apocalypse - an adventure which is not written exclusively for AL (or even with AL in consideration - else it would use predictable episodes and clear break points where renown and DT could be awarded - if not a comment saying - if run in AL characters get renown/DT at these points in the adventure)
This would be a valid point if a vampire or lycanthrope was included in an Expedition, rather than a book AL has no control over and is forced to allow (Regardless of content)
Kalani wrote:
It is already an issue. One of my table DMs asked me how to rule the situation as a player contracted lycanthropy last night due to a failed save.
While I haven't encountered it yet - it must occur relatively early in the adventure (early enough that the individual in question lacked 90gp for remove curse). I saw a similar thread on FB about another table.
Kalani wrote:
One point to note about PotA—I haven't read or played it—what if the authors intended at least one PC to gain lycanthropy, at least temporarily, such that some of the challenges were designed around it? It would be an interesting idea.
Were I to run it, I'd probably let the PC enjoy his immunity to normal weapons for the duration of the hardbound adventure, but require him to cure it if he wanted to play in an expedition.
Stormborn20 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
SleepsInTraffic wrote:
The situation, as it currently exists, does not allow for you to become a lycanthrope with a permitted alignment, to the best of my knowledge.
I would say that 'Embracing the Curse' ought to simply not be permitted in AL play. That makes it easy.
If, for whatever reason, you wanted to retain the curse (or couldn't get rid of it), I would propose the following
Every two modules/sessions/chapters, you must spend 3 DT days to represent the time you are not yourself at the full moon.
You must pay DT lifestyle costs for those days, and you cannot perform any other DT activities on those days.
Each day, you must additionally purchase 1 pig (or some other decent sized trade good animal) to statisfy your animal form's hunger.
Each day, you must roll a d20 to determine if you attack a humanoid to spread the disease. (1-6 you killed someone, 7-12 you infected someone, 13-16 you attacked someone without killing or infecting, 17+ you were not dangerous)
Optionally, you can purchase one or two sets of Silvered Manacles (102 gp each, +5 to the roll per manacle, max 2) to restrain yourself, and/or must purchase the services of a skilled hireling each day (2 gp per day, +6 to the roll, max 1 hireling) to make sure that you're not killing people. You can optionally choose to pay reparations for people you kill/infect/injure at regular spellcasting services rates (or cast the spells yourself, if you can). Having spells casts costs another DT day.
Pauper wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Stormborn20 wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Stormborn20 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Stormborn20 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
QwertyAzerty wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Actually, since the rules for Embracing the Curse, Player Characters as Lycanthropes and Player Characters as Vampires are not included in an allowed resource, the rules, as written, cover that eventuality. It is expressly not allowed under the current rules.
It probably never occurred to the Admins that someone would be stuck with Lycanthropy for an extended period, given the cheap cost of Remove Curse at 90gp. If it is made clear that the character or characters who contracted the curse will not be playable past the end of a session/module/chapter, more than likely, most tables will chip in enough cash (30gp/3PC, 22.5gp/4PC, 18gp/5PC, 15gp/6PC, 12.86gp/7PC). If done during Encounters, I would get the money from the table that is present the session that the curse is actually contracted (if at all possible), or else problems might occur.
Now, I suppose it's possible, if unlikely, that the entire party could contract the curse, in which case, there could easily not be enough GP reward to fund everyone's remove curse. Alternatively, characters who contract the curse could 'die during the adventure' and have faction charity raise them, if below 5th level. If it can cure vampirism, it ought to be able to cure lycanthropy.
Ainulindalion wrote:
For me it makes sense to use the natural game boundaries, i.e. session changes (or in some cases DM changes). Sure, you can become a lycan or vamp during a session, but somehow a cure will need to be found before the next one. Or if you run multiple sessions with the same group and DM, this could even be extended if the DM is willing to accomodate (likely to involve work retuning encounters and social interactions, but its certainly what I would try as I like a seamless experience.. ).
But the next DM has no way of knowing, preparing for or verifying those statusses. So you would likely have to be pre-cured as the rules simply do not provide a way to deal with it in any otherwise.
As for the RAW, I think Ainulindalion is right. So any player unwilling to find a workable resolution with their DM has the plain and simple choice to not play or get a different PC.
I would think that if a character chooses to embrace a curse that changes the character's alignment to one that's prohibited, the character would be retired. Some player's might choose that, as a cool way to retire a character. But note that it's the alignment that's prohibited, not merely the character's choice of that alignment at character creation.
For characters who choose to resist the curse, as the full moon got closer I'd describe the character's increasing unease. At moonrise on the first night of the full moon I'd describe the character losing consciousness, then have him sit out until dawn (which could be just a moment of real time or a great deal, depending on whether the rest of the party is doing anything). At dawn, I'd describe the character's disheveled appearance, perhaps bloody rags of clothing—whatever is appropriate based on any precautions the PC took the night before—and let them try to figure out what happened.
I don't need a table to figure out what the lycanthrope did during the night; I'd get that from whatever part of the adventure they were in at the moment. If they were in town at the time, perhaps the PCs could join the hunt for the ravenous monster who murdered those people last night… 
Incidentally, under no circumstances would I allow a good-aligned or friendly NPC lycanthrope to infect a PC.
Persoanlly, I feel that the people running AL had their chance to remove the glaringly obvious werewolves and wereboar from Princes of the Apocalypse, so if the lycanthropes are still there, than lycanthropy is okay in PCs. The rules restricting character options likely bar attempts to seek out lycanthropy, and the alignment rules forbid embracing the curse for these two lycanthrope races. However, the disease rules don't obligate PCs to cure themselves.
I'm of the mind that, if a PC is infected in combat and is willing to roleplay the impacts of the curse, and if the rest of the party is accepting of this and the curse does not prove disruptive of play, then it's okay to have a lycanthrope character. It makes for more interesting RP and, since you don't get the mechanical benefits unless you embrace it, won't unbalance play that much. Wizards had their shot to eliminate the lycanthropes and chose to leave them in instead. Unless the packet with the season certs had a list of adendums to prohibit the lycanthropy curse, then Wizards has missed their window to say 'nay'.
Then again, my group played through Rise of Tiamat in a manner that strained the definition of 'disruptive play' (we invested more time plotting to kill each other than we did working out battle plans for Tiamat), so perhaps my understand of what's acceptable in public play is a bit too liberal.
Karth_GoblinKnight wrote:
We have an official ruling from the AL admins, added to the dndadventurersleague.org FAQ:
A character afflicted with lycanthropy or vampirism cannot be played in Adventurers League until the condition is cured.
Characters afflicted with lycanthropy can have remove curse cast on them -- if done via spellcasting services, this costs 90gp at a temple in your adventuring region.
Characters afflicted with vampirism are killed and brought back from the dead -- this costs 1250 gp if done via spellcasting services. This assumes that the vampire encounter occurs at tier 2 or above -- if at tier 1, I would allow the character to forfeit her adventuring rewards for the adventure she became a vampire spawn to return to life via faction charity.
The FAQ is clear that a character with vampirism, or inflicted lycanthropy (regardless of whether the character resists or embraces the curse) cannot be played in an AL adventure until the affliction is removed.
--
Pauper
(Edit: corrected the vampirism entry to reflect the edit to the FAQ entry)
Pauper wrote:
I corrected the typo in the FAQ entry when uploading it to the complete FAQ
Ainulindalion wrote:
So while I see the Adventure League FAQ has addressed this scenerio how is Raise Dead used to bring the player vampire back (and eliminate vampirism)? The original spell has a stipultion omitting successful use on undead (as does Resurrection). Does the Raise Dead spellcasting service have more juju than the spell cast by a player character? Curious for in-game, rather than trying to be a rule stickler.
Aesop wrote: