This is a cross-post from the Facebook Group.
To contribute to the ongoing discussion concerning potential changes to the DM Rewards, I’d like to propose the following:
For each module/episode that is DM’d, a Dungeon Master gains a token:
- copper for Tier 1
- silver for Tier 2
- gold for Tier 3
- platinum for Tier 4.
DMs would then have various options on which to spend these tokens, after assigning the tokens to a character.
- XP, GP, DT appropriate to the length and tier of the module. This option is only purchasable immediately following the completion of a module, but the XP, GP, and DT may be banked as a unit to apply to any character at any time.
- Purchase of Consumable Magic Items
- 1 Copper = Common or Uncommon Consumable
- 5 Copper/1 Silver = Rare Consumable
- 5 Silver/1 Gold = Very Rare Consumable
- 5 Gold/1 Platinum = Legendary Consumable
For the purchase of consumables, a character would need to be at least in the tier below the level of the module that assigned a given token to use a token (Tier 1 characters can use copper and silver tokens, Tier 2 characters can use copper, silver and gold, and Tier 3 and 4 can use any token). Tokens would also be able to be used in a downward manner (you could use a gold to purchase five rare consumables).
- Purchase of a property. Characters would only be able to own 1 property. Properties would come with multiple benefits.
- Base of operations: Volunteer written adventures (not part of the standard seasons) which revolve around the base of operations, and require that the party have at least one character who owns the type of property to be played.
- A DT activity which allows for running the property
- A DT activity which provides some small RPing/mechanical benefit temporarily.
- An optional background matched to the type of property that characters with the property could select in Tier 1 (either at character creation or during a rebuild)
- Gaining a not normally legal character option (under a given Story Origin) for a new character (single use).
- Upgrade a property. Increase the value of a property, upgrading its size, personnel, associated costs, and utility.
Property Example: Family Farm
- Cost to Purchase: 14 Copper or 7 Silver Dungeon Master Tokens
- Description: A small farm that you either purchased or inherited. It is either run by a family of tenant farmers for you, or by your family. The farm costs you 5 sp a day to run without your direct supervision, and has 1 skilled hireling and 2 unskilled hirelings (that may or may not be members of your family). As many as 2 other adults and 4 children might also live there, not including yourself. As it is a farm, consisting mainly of wide open fields, it is less defensible than some properties, and may be subject to raids by bandits or wild animals.
- When directly supervising the property, you have access to the “Running a Business” Downtime Activity, as described on page 129 in the DMG. You must spend at least 5 DT days on “Running a Business” every 3rd adventure module or episode, or your maintenance costs double for the farm until you do so. Additionally, if you perform the “Training” Downtime Activity with the intention of gaining proficiency in Wisdom (Animal Handling), Vehicles (Land), or Artisan’s Tools (Carpenter, Cobbler, Cook, Leatherworker, Woodcarver), you do not have to pay the associated training cost (you must still pay lifestyle costs and the cost of running the farm). Furthermore, at the cost of 5 downtime days at the beginning of any module, you can provide mounts (riding horses or ponies) for yourself and your party and may also have a wagon and two draft horses to pull it. You expect your party to reimburse the cost of anything killed or destroyed. (This does not allow you to avoid the restriction on transfer of funding between characters, instead, the character(s) replacing the mount(s) or equipment simply loses the value of the item being replaced but does not gain one.) If the adventure takes place in or near the city or town that your farm is closest to (as determined by your Story Origin: Phlan or Greenest for ToD, Mulmaster or Red Larch for EE, etc.), the cost is only 4 DT days.
- Background: Family Farmer
- Skill Proficiency: Animal Handling, Nature
- Tool Proficiency: Vehicles (Land), Herbalism Kit
- Equipment: a set of common clothes, herbalism kit, 50 feet of hempen rope, a signal whistle, the deed to your farm, and 10 gp in a belt pouch
- Feature: Down on the Farm - As an adventurer and a farmer, you are well known to the common people. They will assist you when they are able, provided you use your skills to assist them in return. They have no compunction about lying to help you and your friends, as long as there is no significant danger to them or their families. (This is a variant on the Folk Hero feature.)
- Starting Lifestyle: Poor
- Select Traits, Ideals, Bonds, and Flaws from the backgrounds in the PHB, or from season specific background documents for the city that your farm is closest to.
- Upgrade Options: You may pick one of the following.
- Commercial Farm:
- Upgrade Cost: 10 Silver Tokens or 3000 Gold
- Daily Maintenance Cost: 10 gp
- Staff: 3 skilled hirelings, 15 unskilled
- Benefit: You are well known throughout the region surrounding your farm, and are able to request an audience with all but the highest ranking members of society, and will likely be granted it. Merchants and commoners alike offer you respect and are rarely hostile to you unless you are actively opposing their interests. Your wealth opens all doors, and rarely closes them. (This is a variant on the Noble feature.)
- Secondary Benefit: You may add 10 to your d100 roll for “Running a Business” with respect to running your farm. You may roll one additional dice of the type mentioned when rolling to determine your business’ profit (a roll of 61+ on the d100).
- Required Lifestyle: Wealthy
- Ranch
- Upgrade Cost: 10 Silver Tokens or 3000 Gold
- Daily Maintenance Cost: 10 gp
- Staff: 5 skilled hirelings, 5 unskilled hirelings
- Benefit: As a purveyor of trained mounts and beasts of burden, you are well known to both the local military and caravan merchants. Gaining access to local fortifications and trading posts where you are known is trivial for you and your companions (as long as none of your companions are in poor standing with the organization). Both local soldiers and merchants are likely to loan you simple equipment or give you basic information without hassle. (This is a variant on the Soldier feature.)
- Secondary Benefit: When you provide mounts for your party using the optional DT activity granted by owning a farm, you can provide warhorses instead of riding horses, as well as multiple wagons with draft horses if needed. The cost of doing so also decreases by 1 DT day. Also, Smith’s Tools are added to the list of proficiencies for which you receive a discount on training.
- Required Lifestyle: Comfortable
- Commercial Farm:
I think that is way too complex. The changes need to be simple.
Coredump00 wrote:
I don't get how it's not a simple change.
When you DM a module, you get a token based on the module's tier. With tokens, you can purchase things off a menu for one or more of your characters.
The fact that one of the options on the menu (owning property) happens to be slightly complex doesn't change the fact that the change itself is simple. If you feel the property rules are too complex for you, you don't buy a property. (I don't honestly think the property ownership is complex either, but I wrote it.)
I didn't bring up the idea of owning property as an option for DMs in the original thread, either. I thought it was neat, and tried to incorporate it in a way that wasn't either completely OP or horribly sucky.
Dude, *one* option is to buy property. *one* choice is to buy a family farm... and that has 4-5 paragraphs describing that....
Too many rules, too many moving parts..... Everything about AL is based on simplicity....
My understanding is that people are looking for meaningful options from their DM Rewards.
You can't have a meaningful option that doesn't add some "complexity", though I see it as depth, rather than complexity.
How would you incorporate the purchase of property in a way that was meaningful?
The potions are too cheap.
I DM 3 Tier 2 mods... now my level 3 paladin can be Str 25 for 3 hours.
Or can have extra HP and be blessed for 3 hours
Or have resistance to all damage for 3 minutes
or can do them all at once... and thats just from 3 mods.
I know everyone hates me for this, 
but I'm not in favor of rewards for a DM's character at all. I favor rewards for the DM himself (or herself) in real life. For example, books, dice, gift certificates, etc.
In fact, in the early days of the RPGA, awards for DMs and for players who won tournament rounds were often $5 certificates toward the TSR Hobby Shop. I'm pretty sure I still have some lying around, though five "TSR dollars" ain't what it used to be. 
-- Just putting in my 2¢ worth (which is more than five TSR dollars' worth!)
TheBreen wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
I think the emailer a few up said it best: AL is run by Voluntary Admins who dont get paid for what they do (unlike say Living Greyhawk). AL would also put all its requests from WOTC for Kits /certs etc.
I dont see AL thus providing any 'trinklets' to DMs. Hell the trinklets provided at Gencon, some AL Admin's actually paid for out of their own pockets (buttons and the like). I think that goes far and above what is expected of them, they dont have to do it, but they do.
Now consider the costs involved to ship 'trinklet's overseas (and despite what is thought by a lot of people, AL is an international game too). Sending stuff to Spain, Malaysia, Australia, Germany and so on isnt cheap.
Ill put it into context. I recently purchased some of the LC Shirts as part of the recent initiative to get LC's some stuff they can wear to promote AL. Shipping to me ended up being MORE expensive than the shirt order (and essentially 115 percent of the shirts cost). I still paid for it myself because I wanted them. I didnt have to dot it but I did.
Now imagine the costs involved to ship out books, dice and so on all around the world and then all around America. THats why Im actually amazed WOTC do ship Certs/kits out to other countries.
Id prefer any costs AL undertakes to be related to quality control and scenario creation, and not spent on dice that people can lose and certainly not gift certificates which may be invalidated because its only usuable in some countries.
I'd be okay with a token system, but I'd want to be able to spend them on permanent magic items as well. Perhaps have the option to spend X tokens for a magic item of Y rarity from the modules themselves. Not all of us have the opportunity to play and DM. That would allow DMs who see a magic item they could use not have to find the time and a DM willing to run that adventure for a chance to get that item. I don't want to sound greedy, but DMs (especially those who are also store organizer) put more time into preparing the games than the players who spend a few hours each week at the tables. Because of that, I'd like to see the DM rewards reflect that greater investment with a worthwhile return. Having rewards with RP benefits is great and all, but without any crunchy rewards the system is nothing but fluff.
I understand that not every DM in the AL has the desire to play as well, but the current system doesn't really cater to them anyways. The current system seems to be aimed at converting players to DMs, instead of searching for pure DMs. Unfortunately, a lack of funds makes it difficult for the AL to reward such pure DMs. Until the day comes where such funds are available for RL rewards, fine-tuning the current system to make player-DMs feel like running a table doesn't set their own character back should be the focus.
I will say that really like the idea of being able to use non-AL legal player options as a reward, as not every DM has the resources to attend conventions that give away such certs. Those of us in the trenches are doing the same job as the conventions that have access to such certs: promoting the AL program and generating revenue for Cobra Command. It'd be nice to have some of the same perks as a reward for our time and energy.
Our FLGS gives store credit to DMs each week, and gives DMs a coupon that we can use 1/week for a discount on 1 item. It's not much, but it is enough to make it feel like you are getting something valuable for your work. I think I have enough saved up to buy a whole brick of RoD minis when they come out...hopefully this season they will make the bases actually readable.
Living Greyhawk admins weren't paid. Usually, the 1st couple of years of important mods get paid and after that, it stops.
I do think it would be interesting, if slightly perverse, if WotC did a kickstarter/gofundme or something similar to fund material rewards(perverse because someone is paying to get their DM marketing...)
In any case, things such as farms, commercial farms, bars, etc...
The easy way to do them is to not have recordkeeping...for running a mod, you can get a token.
Get a business: Spend tokens squared to have a particular level of business. 1 token = squalid, 4 tokens = poor, 9 tokens = modest, 16 tokens = comfortable, 25 tokens = wealthy, 36 tokens = aristocratic. That's the free lifestyle that your PC gets for having a business. It also may potentially come up in an adventure or there may be a mod where you only get to play if you own something at the poor level.
5 tokens: get a consumable from a mod that you just ran. The PC that you give the consumable to must have been able to play the mod in question. So take a consumable from an 11-16 mod? Must go to 11-16 PC.
Maybe once in a season, if they sent out (with the expeditions/encounters store material) one special DM Reward cert like the Death Domain Kelemvorite, or Aasimar cert? Enough to give to one DM?
That would be cool, without having to track tokens or whatever. I don't think the database managers/campaign staff want to track that kind of thing anyway, but I'm just guessing.
Back in the LFR days, my former FLGS (RIP) used to collect $2 per person to play in a LFR game that I (and other LFR DMs) ran. All of that money was then given to the DM as store credit. It was a great system, imo, and I will recommend it to my current FLGS where I DM AL. It does not cost the store any money, it is like a community-purchased gift card and the store earns their normal margin; actually, the store generates even more sales because people usually buy something else while buying their LFR "ticket." Players paying $2 for a 4-6 hour gaming session run by an experienced DM is a great deal and no one complained. The store credit not only served as a DM appreciation/reward but it also encouraged many players to try DMing -- which was more important -- and several of these players went on to become our best DMs(!)
ps. The material DM rewards from WotC were nice but, sadly, those days are gone.
Anthraxus wrote:
Personally, I don't expect 'rewards,' but if people in said positions are thinking about things that could be offered, I'd much prefer in-game stuff as opposed to the odd trinket or monogrammed stationary or another d6 with a funny logo on one side. I've got a bazillion dice already, and after nearly 15 years or convention gaming and such like that, my gaming bag is a streamlined paragon of efficiency and compactness; I'd have little need or desire for just more random 'stuff.'
What I would love to see is more and/or expanded options for the DMs. Most DM, by definition, don't play as often as their players, so when they do get those rare opportunities to actually sit down at a table as a player, it'd be nice to be able to do so with something a little unusual or unique. It doesn't have to be something gamebreaking, either. As mentioned, something like access to a new race (presumably balanced if they're already in one of the books) or something like the Death domain or the like. Or, even, maybe the opportunity to use expanded options from the sourcebooks or other legal sources.
Or, as far as conventions go, maybe allowing the DMs to access stuff like the All-access reward certs/shop as well, if they ran a certain number of games? Doesn't even have to be 'new' stuff developed for them.
Hello, first time posting on this site.. 
I like to be the DM. I have always been the DM or GM in almost every game/convention i have been to and I have played D&D since AD&D 2.0. I would rather play but there is ALWAYS a shortage of DM's. At the store I play at I started out playing for the first 2 weeks but there were 8 players in each game and only 2 AL DM's. So I decided to be a DM and now we have 3 AL tables with 8 Players at each table and only 3 DM's. So I always thought the DM rewards should be that when a DM does get to play, he has the most bad-ass player in the group. How do they get to that point? Simple, Magic Items or lots of Gold. When you DM you get a kick-butt prize like a magic item as a prize for being a DM, then others will want to DM as well. Like for Encounters you DM a whole module up to the 4th Session or 4th level, then you get some good stuff. and for Expiditions you get something good after each Session. I don't know i just think its a prietty simple idea. When I do play a toon i want to have bracers of defense or staff of fire, or Displacer cloak, etc. I want people to know that hey, I am a DM most of the time and I am quite rare.
Erkman: You can only have a max of 7 players at an AL table. You typed 8 instead of 7
As a DM you dont need a Staff of Fire or Bracers of Defense to be considered rare, dms are already rare. People know that.
We need more a natural progression of DM's that takes time, not a 'quick everyone get on the D Train for Phat Lootz!'. Forcing someone to dm with bribes because we dont have enough dms is not the way to go, and if it means we have to limit play numbers, then we have to limit player numbers. Wanting to dm should be a natural choice
ie
'Ive seen what you have been doing, and Id like to give it a try if possible. Can you help me?'
Not
'I saw your poster for the free staff of ultimate evil destruction. Ill dm sure, how do I get that staff first? Its awesome. Oh yeah Im really a great dm!'
Personally Id like XP /GOLD to equal what the players get. (Im not fussed about not getting renown or Downtime)
Tyranthraxus wrote:
I'm in favor of DM rewards...but they're a mixed bag, since DMs are a mixed bag as well.
You've got DMs who run games because that's what they prefer to do. They'll play if you make them, but they prefer being behind the screen (for WHATEVER reason)
You've got DMs who prefer to play, but are willing to step up now and again so that the game can go on.
And you've got DMs in between.
So no single rewards system is going to cut it, because we all DM for different reasons. Season 1's DM-exclusive magic items actually caused some grief for certain people.
I like the point system *in principle*, but I agree it needs to be severely trimmed down. Keep it simple might mean just getting a certain amount of points per module (or per a certain number of hours running Encounter session). Having "unlockable" rewards, such as restricted player options, magic items, specific equipment, or XP awards appeals to one type of DM, and another might be really interested in unlocking early access to an Expeditions module once a season.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
I would like to see just keeping a record of DM XP separate from Player XP. The two are not the same, so don't treat it as such.
DM's should gain levels and gain some sort of perk that comes from that, just like players do for their characters.
DM levels might have to be a lot slower, but the rewards should be significant and meaningful, and not necessarily tied to a character because that is not how they are earning it.
What if each session was worth 100 DM XP, in addition to the current rewards already stated. Reach level 2 and you get a warhorse certificate to give to any character. Reach level 3 and you get to pick any common magic item as a certificate. Reach level 4 and you get to pick from 3 rare items, and the PC you give it to just has to be level 4+ to qualify. They don't have to be those exact rewards, but you get the idea. Keep it different than typical player rewards, and maybe offer some choices. I would especially like to be able to offer it as a reward to my players if I am a full-time DM, and just want to tease that good role-play is going to be worth something extra that session.
The idea is sound, and can be done with certificates (which seems the only thing they are willing to hand out). The trick is you need somebody to hand it out to a DM after X number of sessions and not sooner. A log sheet that the store operator initials after each session would work for that purpose.
I haven't done the math, but I would cap it at level 4 or 5 for a DM, and restart DM XP each season. It's not meant to be a measuring stick for DMs against each other, or a rating system of how often you DM. If somebody runs games twice a week for the entire season, then that seems like a good amount to be able to reach the maximum reward for DM'ing, and I would expect the DM level to cap at about that rate. I wouldn't want someone to DM 4x a week just to get certs--it seems silly to me, but I know greedy DMs who would do it for the certs, and I don't want that to be exploited.
I think it is a simple enough solution for stores, DMs, and the AL operators. The real cost amounts to 4 or 5 certs per DM, per season, and is extremely affordable.
Take the above post as a suggestion.
I certainly prefer figures or maps as rewards myself. It would save me time and energy to put towards better presentation of the game, and give me something to show off to potential new players that eyeball the game table in stores. But I feel like we need to reach for something that the AL organizers might actually get on board with more easily, and I think a few more certs are just the most obvious thing to go for.
Points, DM XP, coins, whatever you'd like to call it, I tend to agree with Erkman. If you've got a LGS where there's an effective round robin approach to DMing, then the rewards don't need to be that great. But if you're talking about a store where one or two guys are always forced to DM (else no game happens), and there's a long awkward silence when that person mentions they'd like to play next week...those are the people we (as a community) want to see rewarded, and who many people don't feel are rewarded properly.
Given that the AL is a volunteer effort in every way that really counts, we're probably not going to see free swag like minis, dice, or the like. We'll likely be limited to things that can be awarded via certs. But what if the awarding of certs was based on games they've run (which IIRC is already tracked to some extent...)
- Run X number of games, gain a cert redeemable for X,000 experience, or X000 gold, or X renown
- Run 5 games of Tier 1 from a given season, gain a cert redeemable for some custom background or feature. ("While the PCs have been dealing with X, Y, and Z, your faction has had you looking into ____, you gain advantage on checks dealing with _____)
- Run 5 games of Tier 2, gain a cert redeemable as a completed secret mission.
- Run all of the modules for a given season, gain a cert redeemable for some character option benefit (like the death domain cleric)
Obviously, that could get really complex...but even with some of the simpler awards, it might make the DM rewards feel a little more like something the DM would enjoy, and not something that they might feel they have to fight for. (Especially in stores which have more DMs than DM packets.)
I'm confused here. I like to play, I like to DM. As much as I'd like DMing be a paying gig, I don't want to play at a table where the DM is doing it because of the rewards program. I go out to play D&D, and we need both. I like that my characters don't get left behind for running a game. I suppose renown or magic items for my character would be nice perks, but not a deciding factor.
I like that we can have a bunch of people show up, and make as many tables as we need. Getting the club to the point where players move from the PC to GM role as needed is vital for a healthy league. As much as I like free stuff, it seems to be a waste of money.
Is there really a shortage of DM's because the league rewards DMing similarly to playing (especially since after running a module, you can run your PC through it, and ninja the thing), if it's really important to you.
Matyr wrote:
Avross wrote:
So a quick anecdote to illustrate where I think the need for making the DM rewards feel more equitable.
Our store has two tables running. The first is the group which is running the full Princes of the Apolcalypse. and which I am running. The second used to be run by another DM who did it because she enjoyed DMing (and surprisingly didn't have an opportunity with her home group). Unfortunately, she got a new job which means she won't be joining us anymore, and this forced us to consolidate and redistribute players. Because we've had an influx of new players, we now have a Tier 1 table running Expeditions, and a second table running Princes. The Expeditions table is being DMed by a round robin (mostly some of the people from my table). And they consider it a chore because they're being pulled away from the game they'd rather play.
Anyways, this week's DM happened to check in with us after the game and was not silent about his diappointment that the players at my table earned about 2-3K experience, compared to him earning 200 XP. Getting him to agree to be part of the DM rotation was like pulling teeth, and his attitude is not unique. We've already got a few people who frequently have "crunches at work" when their turn in the rotation comes up. (And yeah, they're full of crap, but calling them on that wouldn't help anyone)
As before, I do want to stress that I think the DM rewards should feel equitable, *not* that I think they should be *equal* or *payment for DMing*. But they should be something which recognizes that as a DM, you invested more time than any player towards the game session, and that *feels* like it's recognition.
Boo-ya. You've got the right site picture, Breen. Since when do DM's spend a great deal of time playing? This business about character rewards for a DM is a bit like udders on a bull.
Rather, special modules, miniatures, and such. Special tactical maps. DM screens. Dice. Essentially, exclusives. No need to go overboard. And no need to make them SUPER exclusive. In other words, the bar can be pretty low in terms of what is required to get these things. In this way they essentially become flavor and not so valuable that people engage in gross bufoonery (i.e. participating in fraud or paying ridiculous sums on eBay) in order to get them. Just a nice 'thank you' for spending the time DM'ing some games.
Otherwise, just scrap the whole idea altogether. I know DM player rewards as they are currently established are worthless for me personally. Yet, I still DM. I bet most other DM would feel the same way. Spending time and energy on something that isn't really worth the time and energy is wasteful. And could be better served on some other endeavor within WoTC.
TheBreen wrote:
It depends entirely on the DM. Some DMs spend a lot of time playing, while others rarely if ever. I myself for example, DM approximately 50% of my time currently perhaps slightly more. Most of this DMing occurs during my stores Tuesday night Expeditions, but I also frequently DM during Wednesday night Encounters as well (and in the first season, I DMed for the full Encounters season).
The current DM reward structure is predecated on the idea that most DMs will play at least some of the time. This assumption does nothing to help those DMs who never/rarely play, esp. those who prefer DMing to playing.
For me, I play plenty, but I don't really want to use DM XP... I like playing DnD. DM XP is just a way that any given PC is not allowed to play. I feel the same about 'catching up'; I would only ever do it if I don't already have a PC at the next tier and want to play a new adventure.