Druid Armor in AL

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zagora_01

Dec 23, 2014 5:18:29

Is it leagal to reflafor metal armor as incectoid or wood armor in AL. I'm hoping an AL admin will answer. This is for the Druids restriction on wearing metal armor

#2

guachi

Dec 23, 2014 7:32:19
No. House rules, optional rules, and variant rules are right out for AL. if you want to change the rules of the game like that to give your character an advantage he otherwise wouldn't have, don't play AL.
#3

Pauper

Dec 23, 2014 7:38:07

If you could just say that metal armor isn't made of metal, then it wouldn't be much of a restriction to not be able to wear metal armor.

 

With that said, at least one of the season 1 AL modules has a non-metallic shield that can be claimed by a druid.

 

--

Pauper

#4

guachi

Dec 23, 2014 9:52:00
Just to be clear, I have no problem with house ruling something like that. It could make a fun adventure hunting down the materials! But AL isn't really the place for that. You take the good (rules that don't change, so you know what to expect) with the bad (rules that don't change)
#5

zagora_01

Dec 23, 2014 17:46:01

Everyone but guachi. Thanks for your opinion.

 

I don't consider it an advantage when the class is given a proficiency it can't use. They only mention shields in the player's handbook, but shields were made of both metal and wood. Secrets of Sokal keep also has armor made out of coral and sea shells but it is not available for treasure.

 

The whole "Druids will not where armor made of metal" sounds like a flavor input rather than an actual mechanic for the class. This is why I was asking for an AL admin, and before someone tells me I'm posting in the wrong place know that they have answered me before.

 

Thank you

#6

guachi

Dec 23, 2014 18:59:33
Who is everyone but me? Pauper is the only other person who responded to you and he basically agreed with me.
#7

zagora_01

Dec 23, 2014 19:55:18

Yeah your right.

 

I didn't read the names close enough. I felt your first post was a little out of line but thats fine.  i don't want to dwell on it.

 

Like I said.  I don't think it was meant to be a restriction. I think it was just meant as flavor. I was just hoping someone from AL admin would verify that.

 

No matter.

#8

TheBreen

Dec 24, 2014 0:06:16

That druids cannot wear metal armor has been a game mechanic and restriction for decades, across various editions of D&D. It's meant to balance out other abilities that druids get (e.g., shapechange). It isn't, and never has been merely "flavor" text. It's a core part of the druid class.

 

 

#9

zagora_01

Dec 24, 2014 2:12:50

Ok, let me explain myself. I have been playing Dnd since the beginning. I know the restrictions on Druids wearing metal armor has always been there; however, in the other editions there has always been a way to get non-metal armor variants of heavy armor presented in the player's handbook. If the metal armor restriction was meant to balance the class they wouldn't have given them medium armor proficiency. I believe this was just an oversite regarding organized play given the way they've approached everything else in this edition. In a home game its no problem, but in organized play it requires someone to make a ruling.

 

 

#10

Plaguescarred4

Dec 24, 2014 4:21:05

zagora_01 wrote:
#11

zagora_01

Dec 24, 2014 4:55:22

Plaguescarred4 wrote:
#12

Pauper

Dec 24, 2014 7:22:15

It's kind of funny that people keep complaining about how druids not being able to wear metal armor is somehow unfair, while ignoring that druids traditionally are the only class that gets access to barkskin, a spell that increases AC.

 

--

Pauper

#13

Kalani

Dec 24, 2014 11:52:37

zagora_01 wrote:
#14

zagora_01

Dec 24, 2014 15:04:33

Kalani wrote:
#15

zagora_01

Dec 24, 2014 15:12:11

Also,

 

The armor descriptions of breastplate and scale do not include the word metal in their description in the 3.5 Player's Handbook as does splint and banded mail which suggest they could be made of a different material.

#16

Plaguescarred4

Dec 25, 2014 12:01:37

RAW here are the armors that specify wood, mention or ommit to mention metals as part of their description;

 

No Metal Armor

Padded armor

Leather armor

Studded leather armor

Hide armor

Ring mail armor

Shield

 

Metal Armor

Chain shirt armor

Scale mail armor

Breatplate armor

Half plate armor

Chainmail armor

Splint armor

Plate armor

Shield

#17

Stormborn20

Dec 25, 2014 16:01:28

Reskinning is when you decide that your hide armor is made out of fungus because your druid is obsessed with mushrooms.  Changing armor from metal to nonmetal with the intention of gaining a purely mechanical advantage is not "reskinning".

#18

zagora_01

Dec 26, 2014 0:44:11

Stormborn20 wrote:
#19

Kalani

Dec 26, 2014 11:40:48

zagora_01 wrote:
(Reply to #14)

OnlyNerdStuff

 

 

zagora_01 wrote:
(Reply to #18)

OnlyNerdStuff

zagora_01 wrote:
#22

Oraibi

Dec 30, 2014 23:24:58

Plaguescarred4 wrote:
#23

Kalani

Dec 31, 2014 0:27:27

Oraibi wrote:
(Reply to #22)

Pauper

Oraibi wrote:
#25

Oraibi

Dec 31, 2014 23:10:19

So it doesn't really matter if the druid has proficiencies or not. That is a sensible reading.

 

What happens if a druid DOES wear metal armor anyway? Does it just fall off them and/or they literally can't put it on their body?

 

We know what happens if you wear armor you're not proficient with. But what happens to a druid who picks up a metal shield or puts on a chain vest?

 

 

#26

El_Condoro

Jan 01, 2015 6:35:11

That's a bit like asking what happens if a vegetarian eats meat; technically, he or she can eat meat but, unless they are compelled to, they choose not to eat meat. I see it similarly for a druid - they can put on metal armor (probably without proficiency and all that entails) but they choose not to - if they are a 'true' druid. If they continue to press to wear metal armor, perhaps the character loses some druid powers, or becomes a fighter. I would be asking why a player chose to be a druid, which has this clear stipulation, if they really want to wear metal armor.

#27

Kalani

Jan 01, 2015 14:10:26

A better example would be to compare it against other religious practices.

 

You would no more see a druid "voluntarily" wear metal armor (or use a metal shield) than you would, see a Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu person eat a hamburger. It is simply disallowed by their traditions and faiths to engage in such practices, and to say "what if" is being disrespectful. 

 

Yes a Hindu person could eat a hamburger....They won't though, because that would violate their sacred traditions. The same thing applies in respect to Druids and metal armor. 

 

Stop trying to game the system. The rule is absolute. 

 

  • Druids will not wear metal armor or use metal shields.

If you cannot live by that stricture, don't play a druid. End of story.

 

 

 

 

#28

Pauper

Jan 02, 2015 7:00:49

If for some reason a druid finds herself wearing metal armor, she will immediately begin removing it, as long as doing so does not immediately endanger her life. (In other words, not in the middle of a fight.)

 

That seems the simplest ruling.

 

Also, proficiency is with classes of armor, not specific types -- in other words, you're proficient with medium armors, not specifically with breastplate armor. If a druid finds a medium armor that is not made of metal (for example, hide armor or a darkwood breastplate -- the former is in the Player's Handbook, while the latter is not), she can wear it with no penalty.

 

--

Pauper

#29

Oraibi

Jan 05, 2015 5:56:47
I'm not trying to game any system here. My druid wears hide, and has no intention of wearing metal armor. I'm just asking questions about how people would approach this in an AL setting. (Obviously DMs can do whatever they want in non-AL games.)
#30

guachi

Jan 06, 2015 12:36:45

If a druid were being mind controlled and put on metal armor I'd rule it the same as any character that wears armor he's not proficient in.

#31

Greenstone.Walker

Jan 07, 2015 1:53:57

Plaguescarred4 wrote:
#32

Plaguescarred4

Jan 07, 2015 2:12:29

Greenstone.Walker wrote:
#33

Stormborn20

Jan 07, 2015 6:43:50

Getting from leather armor to either studded leather or ring mail requires more than just adding a buckle or two.  You are adding enough metal to boost the AC for studded leather, and to even reach heavy armor status for ring mail.

 

And the descriptions do mention the studs and rings.  To argue about them not mentioning the metal composition is silly because these are real world things.  The PHB also doesn't specify that humans have two arms.  But we know they do.  And we also know that it is possible to have a one armed human, just as it is possible to have chitin breastplate, but that these are not the norm.

 

There are times when fantasy elements and invoked and we can't rely on real world knowledge to guide us.  Whether ring mail is metal armor is not one of those times.

#34

Kalani

Jan 07, 2015 7:07:38

The Dev's have stated that studded leather and ringmail are legal for druids. While made of metal, the "studs" and "rings" still make up a minority of the armor. It is only when the majority of the armor is comprised of metal that it becomes prohibited.

 

Lets try to look at this from the character's perspective

 

  • Leather: This armor is made of the tanned and cured hide of a cow (or horse). It has several metal buckles to help adjust its fit.
  • Studded: This armor is a suit of leather armor inset with metal (or non-metal) studs. 
  • Ringmail: This armor is a suit of leather armor. Heavy metal (or non-metal) rings have been sewn into the leather and/or affixed to its outside surface.
  • Chain: This armor is made of metal links which have been riveted or butted. A light suit of padding is worn underneath to prevent chaffing.
  • Breastplate: This armor is made of a fitted metal breastplate. It is attached with leather straps, and comes with a layer of padding and leather to protect non-vital areas.

Do you see the comparison..... When comparing the various armors, the character will immediately consider Studded and Ringmail as being types of leather armor (which is exactly what they are). OTOH, nobody is going to mistake breastplate for a type of leather armor, despite some 20-30% of it being leather (straps, skirts, buckles, boots, under-layers, etc).

#35

Stormborn20

Jan 07, 2015 7:26:43

Where did the devs say this?  Where did your descriptions come from?

Leather armor weighs 8 lbs, while ring mail weighs 40 lbs.  Sounds like it is majority metal to me.

#36

Pauper

Jan 07, 2015 7:37:19

The descriptions are from the Player's Handbook/Basic Rules.

#37

Stormborn20

Jan 07, 2015 7:47:28

Pauper wrote:
#38

Kalani

Jan 07, 2015 9:10:16

The descriptions I posted are partially from the players handbook, and partially from real-world armor. I simply took the descriptions in the players handbook, and expanded upon them. The PHB descriptions are as follows:

 

  • Leather: The breastplate and shoulder protectors of this armor are made of leather that has been stiffened by being boiled in oil. The rest o f the armor is made of softer and more flexible materials.
  • Studded Leather: Made from tough but flexible leather, studded leather is reinforced with close-set rivets or spikes.
  • Ring Mail: This armor is leather armor with heavy rings sewn into it. The rings help reinforce the armor against blows from swords and axes. Ring mail is inferior to chain mail, and it's usually worn only by those who can’t afford better armor.
  • Breastplate: This armor consists of a fitted metal chest piece worn with supple leather. Although it leaves the legs and arms relatively unprotected, this armor provides good protection for the wearer’s vital organs while leaving the wearer relatively unencumbered.

Both ringmail and studded leather are types of reinforced leather. They say so in their descriptions. Breastplate otoh, is made from fitted metal worn in combination with leather armor. Nothing in the description of ringmail nor studded says that the rivets, spikes, or rings are made of metal (although it is safe to assume this is true).

 

In any case Jeremy Crawford has answered this question via twitter on several ocassions (I do not have a link handy sorry, as I don't use twitter). In each instance, he has said druids can wear both studded and ringmail armor (assuming they are proficient).

 

 

 

#39

Stormborn20

Jan 07, 2015 9:35:31

I checked sage advice and found nothing.

I went to https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/with_replies and loaded up all of his replies back through August, then searched for keywords like druid, metal, armor, studded, and ring.  I didn't find anything.  I only got to search the text of his replies though, so maybe he replied "Yes" to a question about them without repeating a keyword.

#40

Stormborn20

Jan 07, 2015 10:20:47

I just went through all of his tweet replies since August, and found nothing regarding metal armor, what druids could wear, or anything else relevant to this discussion.  The closest I found was about unarmored defense + wild shape.

(Reply to #39)

Pauper

Stormborn20 wrote:
#42

Stormborn20

Jan 07, 2015 11:05:08

Pauper wrote:
#43

Pauper

Jan 07, 2015 11:26:23

I just wrote it. 

 

--

Pauper

#44

Stormborn20

Jan 07, 2015 11:32:05

So by "the current recommendation" you meant "my personal recommendation" ?


Well that hasnt gotten us anywhere.

#45

Pauper

Jan 07, 2015 14:01:14

The point is that there is no 'official' answer to this question that's really binding for AL DMs.

 

Ideally, all DMs should run from the same set of rules, but this specific rule is too poorly defined to be usable as written, and the 'campaign DMs' (the AL admins) aren't in the business of issuing errata for the Player's Handbook. That's why I put together the 'Recommended Rulings' thread -- to give AL DMs a place to go to find rulings that they can use if they want to be consistent with other AL DMs. But ultimately, a DM can choose to either use that ruling or ignore it -- each table DM interprets the rule their own way.

 

Another regular poster has described the situation as "expect table variation," which is pretty much the final answer for most rules questions in AL. If you're looking for something to beat up your table DM with, you're not going to find it here.

 

--

Pauper

#46

Greenstone.Walker

Jan 10, 2015 1:16:00

Stormborn20 wrote:
#47

RCanine

Jan 10, 2015 9:48:30

Pauper wrote:
#48

Stormborn20

Jan 10, 2015 12:26:07

Greenstone.Walker wrote:
#49

RCanine

Jan 10, 2015 15:52:21

Stormborn20 wrote:
(Reply to #11)

Sorxores

zagora_01 wrote:
#51

Kalani

Jan 15, 2015 10:27:44

Dragonscale in AL

There is white dragon scale armor in HotDQ.

(Reply to #51)

Sorxores

Kalani wrote:
#53

Kalani

Jan 15, 2015 11:20:30

Sorxores wrote: