I have been told that the epics can only be run at conventions with 50,000 or more attendee's. Who is the genius that came up with that rule?
I live the SF Bay Area. We have three large conventions a year. I don't have the money to be traveling accross country just to play DnD.
I don't understand why they wouldn't want as many people as they can get to be able to play the epic mod. I just seems dum to me.
http://dndadventurersleague.org/ConMap/
is fresno or LA too far for you to go even for a 1 day pass on saturday????
@Zagora - I wouldn't be complaining if I was you. you live in one of the most Convention-friendly states in America. There are many people who aren't so fortunate. I live in Alberta, Canada. The closest gaming convention to me is in BC, a 12 hr drive across the mountains. Failing that, I have Toronto to look forward to - a 4hr plane flight as driving would take days, or flying to LA or SF.... And despite this, even I am fortunate compared to some people, such as anyone who lives in the middle of both the US or Canada.
I used to live in Australia. Major conventions happen in Sydney, and I think Perth. From your perspective, that would be the equivalent of saying Cons only happen in LA or NYC.
Yeah, not seeing much to complain about....You only get 3 big conventions a year. I get one - Comic Con (and it doesn't cater to the gaming industry). You can't drive the 5 odd hrs to LA?
A lot of people would like to see Epics expanded to smaller cons. It's probably best to just wait and see, as well as politely letting AL staff know your preferences.
BTW, is there going to be an AL survey coming up? I hope so, as that will give the admins some actual data about what we want.
AL admin want everyone to have the same experience
So they create rule that allow everyone DM to rule the ambigouis rules of the game differently (crossbow expert require 2 free hand or not?)
So they create a loot system that IF everyone at the table is of good faith, will go well, but in most place loot wore will ruined it for everyone
So they create event that only a small % of the player base will be able to attemps.
All this so everyone can experience the same thing on there game, and share a commun sense and be able to talk about there adventure knowing what other did. You remember when [insert plot ennemy] tried to run away and died? Yes when he reach half Hp he tried to run away, but 30 HP is easy to kill. What do you mean half of 300 is 150hp? that BBEG only had 60HP total.
Pretty sure that the rule isn't 'only cons with 50k or more attendance', as Origins didn't even have 50k turnstile attendance (and only about 12k unique attendees) last year, yet the Elemental Evil epic is already scheduled to run there.
If there is a hard-and-fast rule (and I get the impression that there isn't), it's probably 'only cons where the WotC staff and/or volunteer admin staff is able to attend as a group'. There isn't one for Winter Fantasy, for example, and that's the original big RPGA convention.
--
Pauper
Pauper wrote:
I do wish they did more for higher level characters; like small events and challanges even at local shop and such.
BobbyMills wrote:
Hey! I'm also in the SF Bay Area (though I hail from the LA area).
Some notes from my perspective:
1) The conventions in California (Comic Con San Diego excepted) are not "big cons" by any means. In terms of AL stuff (formerly RPGA stuff) they generate a few tables per slot.
2) Fresno is in the middle of nowhere. It's about a 3.5 hour drive from LA or SF.
3) You can't drive from SF to LA in 5-ish hours unless the California Highway Patrol is all on holiday and your car has a range of 400-ish miles on a single tank. My best time, in the middle of the night, was about 5:15. And that's doing well over 100mph (161kph?) through much of the Central Valley. I've made the drive dozens of times and you can usually count on 6+ hours (depending on your bladder) 
4) Other places (Canada, Australia, Antarctica) having conventions few and far between doesn't actually improve the situation in California. It's nice to empathize though, I guess.
5) My guess is that the AL Admins don't want everybody to have the same experience. I think they just want people to have the same opportunity to have comparable experiences.
6) Has a gaming convention ever had 50,000 legit, unique attendees? I've been to Gen Con, Winter Fantasy and Origins (albeit years ago) and that seems really high to me. Are attendance figures even audited?
7) I'd love expanding Epics to more smaller cons, even if the results no longer "count" for the campaign. I'd also like expanded opportunities for higher-level PCs, even though I don't have one yet. I bet the campaign staff would like this stuff too, if they can figure out a way to make it work right.
Sorry for being terse, but I gotta run. D&D game starts soon.
macr05s wrote:
macr05s wrote:
Kalani: Whoa whoa whoa.. there is a major gaming con in Perth? Where? When? There IS a con called Genghiscon but I wouldnt exactly call it a major convention. It struggles to field much in the way of rpgs. In fact I think Boardgamers and Wargamers easily outnumber the amount of rpgers. Im thinking about offering some AL next year there.
Melbourne and Sydney do have some major conventions (Arcanacon was just on in Melbourne). Neither however I would consider anywhere near the scaled of conventions in America (Gencon/Paizocon/other)
I have no issue missing out on the Epics. Wizards runs them as prestigous select events at v large conventions to create a buzz about Adv League. Thats great. If that recruits in more AL people Im happy, but then again Im happy just recruiting new gamers as a hobby needs to replenish our aging average gamer .
Would I like to play in an Epic one day? Sure would. Is it going to annoy me that, that may never happen. Not at all.
zagora_01 wrote:
They used to have a Gen Con in Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Con#2008.E2.80.932009:_Gen_Con_Australia
Skerrit wrote:
I have heard the 50K attendee rule too... and obviously not from the same person the OP got that from.
So if it is not true... the rumor has been spread up and down the California coast at least.
In Los Angeles where I live.... The local convention can NOT get an EPIC even though every convention is about 60 tables.
Right now, the February Los Angeles convention has already enough for 65 tables... that does not include round zeroes, walk-ups and still 2 weeks to go to sign up.
I have heard Dragoncon... who was fortunate to host an Epic does not have the amount of tables that Los Angeles does... even remotely.
It is a larger convention, yes but does not have amount of players that LA does.
Yeah I was shocked when Winter Fantasy use to be DDXP didn't get a Epic and they always had a Battle Interactive for LFR. I hope next year WoTC will bring one back. I'm still singed up with some new cats to the whole AL Con thing, just wished they could play in a Epic since I told then how much fun the LFR ones were.
I guess I just don't understand the strategy. I mean, if you're going to spend the time and energy to make a massive, epic adventure, why wouldn't you want as many players as possible to experience it. What better way is there to promote the hobby?
I have a few friends that are pretty resistant to the idea of Organized Play, despite being big D&D fans. Battle interactives used to be the things that could get those sorts of players hooked. They were the reason to pay for a con ticket.
Not any more.
I think the bigger problem too is the impression that it gives. There's no criteria; to the players, it seems completely arbitrary. As a result, it feels like it's just about who-knows-who. I mean the AL could be focused on a coterie audience, that's up to the admins. But it doesn't feel like a healthy thing.
…or maybe I'm just jealous because a several days and several hundred dollars are more than I afford for exclusive content.
Nozareem wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
At this moment there are lots of new events, but there is no Epic planned for Gen Con.
Skerrit wrote:
To be honest, "socializing" doesn't seem to be a word I'd use for what OP players do at gaming cons, even large ones.
Oraibi wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Oraibi wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
I have a question about the Epics are you guys that run them still using now expeditions as deciding factors on how the Epic will unfold at the Cons, so like Wednesday through early Friday you run expeditions and about 1pm tally what happens during those expeditions to decide what will help or hinder the players during the Epic?
It would vary with the Epic, but yes, it is possible that events at the con could effect the epic. Note we've only ever had one epic so far (and it was on a Saturday at Gen Con).
I'm glad the admins are discussing a My Realms model. That would go a long way torwards keeping the public play model alive.
My claim about 4 times did not extend to the home play mods. I was mainly speaking about Expeditions. I organize a weekly event where we run Expeditions. This has been going since September. That's five months of playing which is at least 20 weeks. Plus, there are two other events at least that run weekly here in the SF Bay Area. I and most of the people I know who play in the Bay Area have played each mod at least twice.
I understand premiering an Epic Mod at the right time, but let us play last years mod. Let the smaller cons run the older Epics for those of us who can't afford to make the premier. PLEASE!
Thanks for joining this discussion.
Skerrit wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
There is a long history with special events in organized play. A lot of evidence has been gathered over the years. While there are some reasons to keep most events accessible, it has also been shown that the exclusivity of these events draws people to these conventions and create excitement.
At the individual level of one person, yeah, it's tough. My daughter had a performance this year, so I had to cancel my trip to Winter Fantasy. I don't get first shot at the faction T-Shirts, I don't get to catch up on the adventures I needed, I miss out on the magic mart, and I miss playing with and DMing for my friends. That's tough... but it also really makes me look forward to next year. Sure, for a few people it may have the opposite effect - turn them off so much that they walk away. Over the years I've seen very little of that.
I think there could be a happy medium. Maybe a special event where playing at the special conventions carries benefits and an extra encounter, but the rest of it can be done at a public location. But, that may not please all people either. (What does?)
Pauper wrote:
I would also like to note the term "Huge Event". If you are talking about a battle interactive, that isn't that huge. As I said in the previous post, we ran them all the time. They ran well, and they were a lot of fun.
By limiting these events to cons that require a lot of monetary expense to attend, you are omitting a vast majority of players. Mostly those that are married or don't have great jobs. Premier the Epic mods at your big venues, but release them for everyone else when the season is over. That's what I think should happen. To me that sounds like a win win scenario.
@Zagora_01 I think it's worth considering that the purpose of the Adventurers League (and other organized play programs before it) is not to support players...it's to support stores and conventions by generating foot traffic and increasing the desire of players (i.e., customers) to physically show up.
"Is that a good strategy?" is a totally fair question to ask in 2015, especially in light of the rise of both e-commerce and digital distribution, particularly as relates to D&D's most dedicated customers.
I, for example (and I'd guess this is true of a lot of folks on these boards), generally know a lot more about upcoming D&D products than do the people running the local game stores the AL tries to get me to go to, and I can acquire them far more cheaply via Amazon, albeit a couple of weeks after they've gone on sale in WPN stores. So the only reasons I have to go to a game store are 1.) I, for some reason, really want a given product on release day or 2.) I want to play in or run an Adveturers League game.
They're trying to fight the tide of "I don't need to go to the game store to get my D&D stuff" by things like AL Expeditions and major, exclusive events at certain Cons. It's not about you or me as players; it's about stores and vendors as brand evangelists.
The irony is that, in my experience, individual D&D players themselves are far better brand evangelists than the game stores that only keep the lights on by selling Magic cards. That's just not historically where the support has been given, and in a lot of ways we're still shackled to a thirty five year old business model that's struggling to evolve.
CahPahkah wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Pauper wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
Avross wrote:
I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but why not go back to the way it was in previous editions? You are in the South East, so you have these mods (DDEXSE1, 2, 3), you are in the North East, so you have these mods (DDEXNE1, 2, 3), etc. and limit those mods from being run outside of those regions. You want people to travel around and spread the word of how things are awesome, that would help get this done. It would limit some players who can't travel into only having access to mods in their region (I would be one of those players, unfortunately) but it would open up a whole vista of opportunities for story telling and players swapping stories of how their Barbarian travelled to XYZVille and fought an Ice Giant, meanwhile, my character stayed home and was fighting a gaggle of hags and a Beholder. Conventions can still have the EPIC mods and that methodology could remain as-is.
As an alternative, I second the idea of something like My Realms. I also would love to see you guys make "adaptables" of older, previous gen adventures. Not necessarily including all the text and whathaveyou, but include AL specific instructions for running the adventure so it is AL legal. This allows for WotC to sell more of the older adventures on their website (or through whatever sites sell them) and older gamers who reminisce about those adventures can bust them out and show them off.
I agree with everything Undrhil said except the regional limitations. I know it was a success with living Greyhawk, but it just sounds stupid to me. I would always be yearning to fight the Ice Giants but never have the time or wife permission to travel to go fight them, and I would have to keep hearing all about how fun it is on the boards.
zagora_01 wrote:
Alphastream wrote:
It limits players to a fraction of the available content AND it vastly increases the amount of work to generate that content. This is a terrible notion that deserved to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
Yeah, Living Greyhawk sucked horribly. I remember those days well. Shudders. A novel concept, but one that simply angered a lot of players - especially those in non-US regions who got less content, and what they did get was subpar.
RCanine wrote:
Living Greyhawk was an experiment. I had a small role in helping set it up.
At the time it was conceived, Living City modules were coming in fast and thick, but the campaign had grown unweildy and some of the key volunteers were getting burned out. TSR had just sold to WotC. There were staff changes, and "HQ" moved to Washington. It was time for something new. (I still miss LC, though.)
The regions were set up with local "triads" because the job of reading, editing, and approving adventures had grown too large for the centralized staff and volunteers (e.g., Robert Weise and Dan Donnelly). It was felt that having local control would mean that the triads would see a smaller number of adventures, and thus be able to respond more quickly. Often, the people selected as triad members were chosen in part due to the fact that they also wrote adventures. However, this largely meant that a given region got only the quality that that region could produce.
As with many big project, the devil was in the details. In Southern California, for instance, one of the triad members went through a divorce shortly after the launch of the campaign and the resulting schism along the RPGA friends made continuing more difficult. Some regions had trouble finding triad members, or keeping them involved. Some regions did great. I only ended up being able to stick around for the first year or so before my own life intruded on my gaming but it's interesting to hear all these years later how things turned out.
From my perspective, everything I see or hear about in OP is a desire to improve upon perceived shortcomings in previous campaigns, and I think that's a very good thing. Again, the devil is in the details.
Alphastream wrote:
Alphastream wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
RCanine wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
I understand that different folks have different desires....but I just don't understand all the butt-hurt over this. I did not go to Gen Con, and will likely never go... I doubt I will ever go to any of the Epic conventions..... I just don't understand why this is so horrible.
Lets say they just stopped doing Epics at all.... they only had Expedition modules at those conventions too.... does that somehow improve *my* game experience? Does the fact that they use Epics somehow magically detract from my game experience? I don't get it.... They are putting out a bunch of *free* modules that I get to play in, and arrange for DMs to run me through them (again free), and all I have to do is show up. Why am I supposed to get all upset that they also do other cool stuff for people that go to Gen Con?
I think part of the problem with Epics, by the way, is that there is a perception that a lot of magic items are available there, while the initial offering of AL play -- the first part of HotDQ -- was completely lacking magic.
I wonder how much the early perceptions of the Encounters program could have been changed if the AL admins had wrote, in the free AL document, that DMs should add one specific AL-approved item to each chapter.
Certainly playing Encounters while reading that Epics exist left a bad taste in my mouth.
Coredump00 wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Sounds like we've got a lot of Strategicon-attending folks in this thread, myself included. :D
Now were talking. A west coast based con. What are you guys going to do for 5e and will it be worth the 500 mile trip down there?
See, the AL admins should pick a sizeable west coast con (Thats not in the far north of Seattle) and support it as well.
zagora_01 wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper wrote:
I think RCanine most elequently stated what I have been trying to say all along. Story content should be available for all.
I spoke with my friend who ran LFR at the local cons here and told him about the hole in the wall coment. Here is his quote. I blocked out names.
zagora_01 wrote:
Yep, I aggree. This whole idea that creating exclusive content for one convention 2000 miles away is supporting your local FLGS just doesn't sound like a valid argument. It sounds more like to me that Wizards is missing out on prime marketing opportunities on the west coast.
I don't understand why this is done this way. They allowed the exclusive content for the local cons with LFR, and it drew a lot of people.
zagora_01 wrote:
Zagora... are you Mondo?
Aribeth wrote:
Aribeth wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
RCanine wrote:
BRJN wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
We actually discussed the Epic at Origins and are now likely to add a second one to the schedule for season 3 (@Gen Con). So there will likely be two this year. Both of those will continue to be handed out to a small number of shows that get premier content after the initial premier, spread around the country.
~~
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
That's excellent news, Skerrit! Thanks for whatever sacrifice the admin team had to make to get this to happen.
--
Pauper
You guys said my name so many times it summoned me from rolling around in my piles of Epic money I keep out in the garage. Now you owe me a cookie.
I got you a cookie, Wavester, but I eated it.
--
Pauper
TheBreen wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
Wavester wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
Wavester wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Wavester wrote:
I don't disagree with much that @Wavester said, although I feel this:
Wavester wrote:
Wavester wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Who is the target audience for exclusive content? Is it people that live in the midwest and east coast because that is who you are targeting? As it stands the only people that can benefit from exclusive content are people that can afford a 1000 dollar vacation (to play a game), or those that live in the area. It seems the people driving the decision of who gets the exclusive content are making their decisions based on personal bias such as who they know or what they know rather than investigating what the actual client base is like. What about all the people that play Dnd around the world? Why are they denied exclusive content?
Anyone who thinks that Adventure League wasn't ultimately designed to support the Wizards product of Dungeons and Dragons is kidding themselves, and the product gets supported by people buying the books, minis, and other stuff sold by Wizards at local stores. They go to the stores becuase of the interest driven by AL. Exclusive content helps drive that interest; therefore, making the exclusive content reasonably available to all (by reasonably I mean within a distance that makes sense for a person to want to travel) can only be good marketing. This is the way 4e did it. Why has that changed?
Kalani wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Oraibi wrote:
Alphastream wrote:
RCanine wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Alphastream wrote:
I'm going to try and make this my last post because the AL organizers already said they will look into a My Realms model and see about getting the Epics more available to everyone. I'm satified with that.
I know everyone thinks of the big three cons as the flag ships for Wizards, but they are all on one side of the United States. Exclusive content is fine, but exclusive is a relative term. As it stands now, exclusive means those people with money or those that live east of the Mississippi. I wouldn't mind traveling one state over to go to a convention, but 2000 miles to play Dnd is asking too much.
If you aren't making a reasonable effort to make exclusive content available to all your customers, then your just playing favorates.
Since this seems to be the thread where people are mentioning local conventions, and since there's been at least one or two other people who've posted in the forums from the SF Bay area, I have a question that applies to both.
DunDraCon opens… tomorrow, I guess, in San Ramon, which is within driving distance. Is it worth showing up for as a walk-in? I used to attend DunDraCon sometimes last century when it was in Oakland (and I was in L.A.). I imagine it's gotten bigger—will I be able to get into any (especially AL) games?
This is my first chance to attend a convention since I stopped playing D&D after my kids were born and I don't have gaming buddies to go with (yet), so I'd love to hear some advice from anyone in the area who knows the con.
CahPahkah wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
TheBreen wrote:
zagora_01 wrote:
Hey, speaking of Epics...
Is the Epic that is playing at Origins going to appear at GenCon following, or is it a Once-And-Done affair? Budget minded folks want to know... ;)
klobbermeister wrote:
Pauper wrote:
We'll announce the adventure line-up (and replay schedule) as soon as we get the okay from WOTC. At this time, its not a question we can answer, sorry.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
macr05s wrote:
TheGimper wrote:
My local anime convention (Otafest) broke 9000 last year, and IIRC broke 5000 at their off-season winter con (Otafest Aurora). 50K though.... I think ComicCon calgary easily pulled those kinds of numbers a year or two ago - when the StarTrek TNG had their first reunion in 20years, in addition to peeps like Stan Lee showing up, and one other major guest.... The con was so packed that they were turning people away at the door for fire hazard reasons.
Kalani wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Kalani wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Is it time to move the epics out of Indiana?
An LGBT player can show up at a hotel and be turned away because they are LGBT.
The placement of Epics is not something the campaign staff controls (though we can make suggestions), so I'm not sure that's something for this forum and it might be better sent to Customer Service. That said, from the DnDAL PG:
D&D Adventurers League Mission
D&D Adventurers League events must:
• Be inclusive of players of all backgrounds
• Foster a welcoming atmosphere focused on fun
• Be accessible to the public (with a few exceptions)
• Use only approved adventure content
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
Can we not talk about such divisive topics. I am sure we all have very strong feelings on the issue - I do as well, and would have the same beliefs even if the law didn't affect me personally - but I do not think this is the forum to discuss it. Such topics are simply not appropriate here IMO
So is it still the case that Origins and Gencon will have epics (each different)?
The Epic for Origins has been announced. The details for Gen Con have not been officially announced but you can get some premature spoilers on the net if you dig hard enough.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
Mind_Flayer_Monk wrote:
BRJN wrote:
BRJN wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
If you carry on this debate to its logical conclusion all conventions will end up here so...wait...never mind.. please continue
Gen Con Netherlands 2016.. I look forward to playing host to all of you.. of any persuation 
BRJN wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
I didn't miss it; it was ridiculous. Geographic proximity is not a source of legal expertise.
CahPahkah wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper wrote: