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| #1SorxoresDec 05, 2014 9:12:40 | I already posted in the rule forum, but I was wonderong about the AL point of view on this as well.
How does a sentient weapon like Harizawn is suppsoe to work? from what I learn on the rule forum, a sentient weapon is suppsoed to be considered as a NPC (like a pretified gnome that a barbarian would swing like a club) and the item description is suppsoe to give a description of the NPC imprison in the weapon (motivation, story etc...) but Harizawn has none of that.
I suspect that since we have a certificate for the weapon, the player is suppsoe to be able to use the weapon, and since Neutral Evil are not permitted in AL I doubt that player need to have the same alignement with the weapon, and it's not unheard of to see evil team up with good people (Raistlin and Caramon in Dragonlance, Zhentarim and Order of the gauntlet in Forgetten realm, etc...) and having a evil character going against an evil organization is not unheard of neither (how many tiem does evil backstab itself and try (Talis the white trying to dethrone the current white wyrmspeaker and ready to help our party of adventurer fighting the cult in order to achieve his objectif).
How is it suppsoe to work?
I pick up the sword from the pile of Ashes. I use it (not attune) and what? since I'm not attune I receive +1 and 1d6 necrotic damage (I believe there an error in to book and they forgot to say if your NOT attune you deal an additional 1d6?
Then when I trie to attune to it, what? we speak together for 1 hour trying to figure out how we are going to help each other, noting forcing the sword to give me it's power but nothing force me to use that sword and noting is stoping me from droping the sword in a volcano to destroy it.
If we succeed in negotiation, then the sword give me it's power and I receive full benefit (+2/+2d6) can we partially come to an agreement and the sword give me +2 but only 1d6 necrotic damage? (or +1 and 2d6 necrotic damage)
If we fail I am not attune to the sword and the sword is just a +1 dealing an extra 1d6 necrotic? or the sword is simply a mundane great sword untill we find a commonground?
can the sword do anything to me? take control of me? deal damage to me? act on his own (a dancing weapon). hinder me while I'm using it, giving me disvantage on my attack, or even simply refuse to move so when I try to move it it doesn,t move and I loose my attack?
Is there anywhere where they describe Harizawn? who was that NPC, why is he a sword? what are his motivation? |
| #2PauperDec 11, 2014 11:34:35 | This would appear to be one of those situations where a DM is encouraged to "feel free to use the Dungeon Masters Guide to help run games", (ALPG, p.9) especially as it appears this item was written up before the intellgent item rules in the DMG were finalized. As it stands, the item as written in the adventure does not have enough information to be run as an intelligent item as written in the DMG. This can be seen as an opportunity for a DM to customize Hazirawn for the player who claims it (Lathander be with him).
Until such time as an official version of Hazirawn is published, I'd do the following:
- Determine Hazirawn's Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. According to the DMG, the DM can do this randomly, or can choose scores. I'd recommend choosing scores, and the scores given in the DMG for Blackrazor (a different intelligent evil greatsword) make a nice baseline for comparison. - Hazirawn's communication ability is already defined, so use the existing ability. - Roll for or choose Hazirawn's senses. - Hazirawn's alignment is already defined, so use the existing alignment. - Use the charts on pp.90-91 of the DMG to determine Hazirawn's Ideals, Bonds, and Flaws. Note Hazirawn's alignment when determining Ideals.
I wouldn't give Hazirawn a Special Purpose, but a DM could do so if desired.
The DM should write up all of this on a note and direct the player to attach the note to the character's log for as long as she owns Hazirawn. This will allow other DMs to make use of Hazirawn's personality (and potential to command the PC through Conflict).
Note that Hazirawn does not have an NPC trapped inside of him -- the sword it itself a sentient being, with its own personality and goals. As it stands, the DM can determine those goals for herself, though anything created by the DM will be overruled if the AL admins publish an 'official' version of Hazirawn for Adventurers League.
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| #3SorxoresDec 11, 2014 11:36:51 | and what if we change DM like for Christmas I'm going to my parent town and I might go the game at that store. Could that new DM completly change the rule on my Harizawn sword? and suddenly me and the sword who had bound and become ally in a common cause, now the sword become treacherous and stop giving me it's power, because this new DM doesn't like powerfull magic weapon for example?
What would happen when Harizawn meet an other Harizawn sword (my HotDQ character join a DDEX tier 2 table where an other HotDQ character joined as well) |
| (Reply to #3)Pauper |
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| #5CyberqatJan 25, 2015 13:09:42 | So i have a response on this from my regional coordinator in another thread. Ive posted it twice so i'll just summarize... so that the player can give it to their next DM.
There are rules in the DMG for ranomly generating setient item stats. Thats probably the easiest thing to do. |
| #6Coredump00Jan 25, 2015 14:52:46 | What makes you think that guy is your Regional Coordinator...??
Or that he is a more authorative source than the AL admins..?? |
| #7OraibiJan 26, 2015 22:25:57 | I don't think a regional coordinator has the right to authorize DMs to make decisions on this item that will be binding for other DMs. If some DM wants to say, "this is how I'll run it at my table," then sure. But the whole "write it down so future DMs know what the item does" thing is bogus and against both the rules and the spirit of AL. |
| #8PauperJan 27, 2015 8:43:41 | So how far up the chain of command do we have to go to get a ruling you feel comfortable abiding by?
-- Pauper |
| (Reply to #8)TheBreen |
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| #10KalaniJan 27, 2015 9:00:49 | I am fairly certain that the ALPG admins are the only ones authorized to make such rulings (and from recent discussions, it appears even they lack such authority). Unless an official errata is provided, or unless an official stance on Hazirawn is handed down in a FAQ, nobody has the authority to hand down blanket rulings for the AL. |
| #11PauperJan 27, 2015 9:40:43 | The AL admins certainly have the authority to make rulings for Adventurers League -- it says so right in the ALPG: "In addition, they [the adminstrators] can be considered an official source for rulings on how something works in the D&D Adventurers League." (ALPG, p.15)
This is particuarly important, because the prior page notes that "[t]he Wizards team doesn't usually involve itself in specific rulings, instead focusing on implementing broad changes and adjusting the system to fit the needs of the community."
So don't pester Jeremy Crawford or Chris Tulach about Hazirawn -- the admins will let us know what the deal is when they're ready. In the meantime, the process noted above has been given the thumbs-up by at least one regional coordinator, and so would seem to be at least a good interim solution until we get something more official.
-- Pauper
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| #12CahPahkahJan 27, 2015 9:56:28 |
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| (Reply to #12)Pauper |
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| #14KalaniJan 27, 2015 11:05:36 |
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| (Reply to #14)TheBreen |
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| #16PauperJan 27, 2015 13:18:34 | There's a two-part article on the dndadventurersleague.org site, written by Art Severance, that discusses DM Empowerment in an Adventurers League context.
Curiously, though, the specific phrasing used above isn't used in the article, and it specifically discusses ways in which a DM is actually allowed to modify treasure awards. For example, if a rogue picks the pocket of a patron in the Laughing Goblin and gains some gold from it, the DM is authorized to reduce the treasure awarded from other parts of the module to keep the overall treasure in line with the published amount the characters can gain:
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| #17CahPahkahJan 27, 2015 13:26:26 |
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| #18PauperJan 27, 2015 13:32:40 | And here's the full quote:
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| #19OraibiJan 27, 2015 22:10:03 | You did realize that the last sentence you quoted, "...is considered final for the purpose of that play session," specifically excludes the idea that the DM who gives out Hazirawn is empowered to make binding choices for how the magic item functions, right? In other words, my interpretation is fully supportable under the rules. |
| #20OraibiJan 27, 2015 22:12:58 | Also, moving money around to keep the total amount of gold gained consistent is not actually changing a reward -- it's an example of the opposite, of not giving one group more than another due to pickpocketing PCs. (A group with 7 rogues doesn't get more from an adventure than a group with 7 paladins.) |
| #21QwertyAzertyJan 30, 2015 12:16:00 | ok the DM is allowed to feel the blank for HIS table. so when a character gain Harizawn, a sentient weapon with no official stats, but the stats are required in order to make Harizawn useable, the DM is entitle to do create those change. It would be very easy to put a DM note on teh weapon in order for other DM to know the ruling the first DM took. nothing is forcing the second DM to follow those rule, but considering the first job of the DM is to make sure the player at his table are having FUN (because remember this is just a game in order to have FUN) and that the player had FUN using the first DM note about Harizawn, it would be simple for the second DM to simply allow that note.
For sure the first DM cannot say that Harizawn give the player +3d6 radiant damage instead of 2d6 necrotic, he cannot change the 4 charge of detect tought/magic/evil and good for 10 charge of burning hand, fireball and sunbeam. He cannot change Harizawn from a greatsword into a longsword or a greataxe. But there is no official personallity, goal, stats etc... for Harizawn so in my game I talked with my player(my Harizawn in my game used to be a evil warlord with a powerfull army, conquering his neighbor nations and being ruthless to his enemies (killing the adult male, sending the kids and female into slavery, male in the mines, female as house maid etc...) Then he conquered a nation and a wizard polymorphed himself into a particularly beautiful women, so he got sent as a personal slave to Harizawn and that mage "trapsoul" Harizawn into a gem.
Later an explorer found that gem, and embeded into his greatsword and this is how Harizawn came back. Now Harizawn is in my control and will help me if I promise to help him get revenge on this mage who trapped him after my current mission (clearing RoT) will be done. This means that if WotC release higher level material in the tyranny of dragon arc, he going to use this as a hook, hearing rumors that a clue to find that mage would be found during the WotC official adventure released, or the mage inside the adventure is that mage, or simply a wild goose chase, untill a DM bring the character outside of Adventure League and give me an non official mage kill. This mean that the sword still work as it's written (give me +2 to hitand damage, +2d6 necrotic damage+wounding+the detect charges as I want) If I change DM I will ahve great fun if the DM keep those rule, if I get a new DM and this new DM refuse to follow my current DM ruling, and make Harizawn a douchebag useless weapon forcing me to kill my party, then I wonT' have any fun and I'll simply leave the table because it's not fun, I had a great weapon with a great story, a plot hook attach to it, and now this same weapon is making me loose control of my character, forcing me to attack my allies therefor forcing them to attack me back? Sorry no not interested in this new Harizawn version I'll wait for my old DM to come back or for a DM who undertand that his job is to make the game fun for the player, not to kill the player in the most absurd way.
But if the new DM decide that instead of being a warlord he was created as a magical sentient weapon and some time the sword refuse to give me the extra +1 to hit, +1 damage +1d6 necrotic damage, fine the DM deem Harizawn too powerfull and decide to nerf it when needed, Harizawn didn't loose abilities, he simply refuse to give them when he don't want to.
Anyway, I like the idea that untill WotC release official stats for Harizawn, each individual DM can COMPLETE THE MISSING INFORMATION (without changing the already available information) there own way in order to make the weapon fun to the player. Then the idea to write it down so new DM know what the player appreciate I find it to be a nice courtesy. The new DM is in no way forced to use this note, but it's a easy way to simply make the player happy. If when the player with Harizawn join a table where Harizawn already exist, then it's simple those are 2 different weapon with different personallyty/backstory that happen, by coincidence to share teh same name. no need to sync both weapon to be the same. |
| #22OraibiJan 30, 2015 23:58:19 | I would be really wary, as an AL DM, of any player who said that they couldn't possibly have fun unless I followed the house rules/custom item defined by some other DM. That sounds like a problem player right there -- if you demand that certain things be run certain ways without cause to do so, that's being disruptive to the DM.
I don't think the Harizawn problem is one that table DMs have enough authority to fix themselves, in a way that will be fair to themselves, future DMs, and players. As many have said, this is a situation that can only be resolved by the AL making some kind of decision. Only the AL administrators have that authority.
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| #23warfteinerFeb 01, 2015 0:18:07 | Harizawn has presented the AL with some pretty interesting discussion points. On the upside, it's exceedingly rare -- but on the downside, it's exceedingly varied from deployment to deployment.
At the heart of it, though, is this: while we cannot change the crunch of it (the dice and attunement), the personality of the weapon is largely up to the player once they leave the original DM's table. I've seen it twice at my various tables, and I've encouraged them to play up the history of the item as printed on the card.
We're very aware of the opportunities that this particular item has presented us, rest assured. |
| (Reply to #11)Coredump00 |
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| #25OraibiFeb 02, 2015 11:53:11 | Who is DMDave anyway? I am not familiar with the name. |
| (Reply to #25)Coredump00 |
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| #27Hibiki54Feb 06, 2015 3:37:58 | I have some advice for people DMing players who have this sword. And please bear with me on this. Also keep in mind that I am a player who has Harizawn as his only magic item.
If you read the section in the DMG on Intelligent Weapons, you will notice that each named weapon have different stats and you can use those as examples. Some +3 weapons have a Charisma of 19, while +1 weapons have a Charisma of 12-14. Sometimes this differs depending on the weapon's alignment, which is another factor that plays into sentient weapons purpose and how they interact with the player.
Harizawn, using the other intelligent weapons as a baseline, would have a Charisma of 16 (+3) since it is a +2 Greatsword.
Since Harizawn has no detailed story, we can only go with it's alignment and the fact that Rezmir (from HotDQ) has the weapon. IMHO as a DM, when Harizawn is picked up by anyone other than Rezmir, it immediately begins to study the wielder. Harizawn is a Neutral Evil sword, but that does not mean that it is the same evil as the Cult of the Dragon, or Tiamat. It has it's own means. The fact that the sword is with Rezmir means that the Half-Dragon wyrmspeaker is strong, has a means to an ends, and is willing to go all out and destroy any and all enemies of the Cult of the Dragon.
If we use that as a basis, Harizawn cannot be wielded by Lawful Good or Neutral Good characters, especially those that bestow mercy upon their enemies. This is especially so of characters of certain deities such as Lathander, Tyr, Helm and various other "Good" sided deities. Any character of such types attempting to bond with Harizawn should automatically fail. Lawful Evil divine characters should not have much problems with, especially those that worship Shar (based on the spells Harizawn has). Although, a worshipper of Hoar or Cyric may not pass muster. Because no one likes Cyric. Additionally, the sword may also not like anyone not capable of wielding it in combat, such as low strength spell casters or characters that prefer Finess weapons.
Most non-divine martial type characters should have an easy time bonding with Harizawn, given they are not Good aligned or they show mercy to their enemies. As a DM roleplaying Harizawn, I played the sword as a being who enjoys a vicious bloodshed when a challenge arises and does not hold back when given the chance to make the final blow. Out of combat, the sword enjoys educating the person they are attuned with, which is just roleplay for the sword allowing the player to use the spells. The sword would respond better to a character that speaks Netherese.
However, Harizawn should be firm in it's beliefs. It does not like it when their wielder holds back their strength, nor does it like it when it's wielder chooses to fight a weaker enemy when their is a stronger one within striking distance. It also does not believe in showing mercy to something it's wielder considers an enemy and will always wish to make the killing blow, but will not enforce this belief toward enemies who are not conscious and not capable of defending themselves (ie, sleeping or unconscious). Harizawn does not care if the allies of it's wielder wants to knock an enemy out and take prisoners, but if given the chance to kill an enemy that is alive, conscious and capable of fighting back, then it's open season. Mechanically, if players in the party want to spare an enemy to talk to, they better do it before it is Harizawn's wielder's turn.
If Harizawn's wielder does not follow it's guidelines, then it starts to take away portions of it's abilities. This is something detailed in the DMG in where the sentient weapon becomes upset with it's wielder and punishes them. For example, should the wielder upset Harizawn, the first thing it takes away is the "Wounding" property followed by "Increased Potency", which would bring it down to a +1 Greatsword. And depending on the severity of the infraction by the wielder, it may also take away it's ability to deal necrotic damage. Should the wielder just outright piss off Harizawn, it may go as far as completely taking away all properties of the weapon and leave it just a vanial magical Greatsword with zero +'s and no properties. Should this trend continue, Harizawn has the option of attempting to take control of the PC, forcing them to make a DC 15 (10 + Improved Potency Modifier + Cha 16) where upon failure Harizawn takes over and the PC is under DM control. Or, Harizawn may just impose disadvantage on the PC as a challenge for them to over come to try and get themselves back in Harizawns graces.
It's assumed that between adventures that Harizawn's attunement level for the PC becomes maxed out. It's up to the DM to help the player by roleplaying Harizawn and putting the PC into situations in which they have a chance at upsetting Harizawn. To challenge them and see if they will overcome it. It's like having a second background and method to gain inspiration. |
| #28OraibiFeb 06, 2015 4:19:08 | This is an interesting approach, thank you for sharing it! |
| (Reply to #27)Coredump00 |
Nice write up, I agree with just about everything you have said. Just two minor quibbles...
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| #30OraibiFeb 06, 2015 14:09:09 | I prefer the "here is how I'm going to handle it" approach much more than the "originating DM makes up arbitrary stats and writes them on the log sheet, which then is binding on future DMs" approach. |
| (Reply to #29)Hibiki54 |
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| #32RCanineFeb 11, 2015 8:29:22 | Can a DM say this? "Harizawn is feeling sulky today and won't come out of its sheath. Grab another sword." |
| (Reply to #31)Coredump00 |
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| (Reply to #32)Coredump00 |
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| (Reply to #34)Pauper |
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| (Reply to #32)TheBreen |
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| (Reply to #2)caecafortuna |
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| #38KalaniFeb 19, 2015 17:38:19 | As I stated previously - I would simply give Hazirawn +0 modifiers for all stats (10 across the board). Special purpose is meaningless RP anyway (it doesn't offer mechanical advantages by itself), so it can be whatever. |
| (Reply to #37)Pauper |
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| (Reply to #38)Coredump00 |
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| (Reply to #2)Coredump00 |
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| (Reply to #27)Hibiki54 |
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