HELP!!! Rewards and Absent Players - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 AggieBear Jun 11, 2015 7:04:34	Hey everyone...hypothetical question for you. The AL rules specifically state that characters for players that can't attend the AL session can't play for that session...and that those characters can't be played by another player that is also playing a character...I get that. No problem with it. However, what I struggle with the the awarding of rewards. I try to divide up gp and xp and the end of each sesson and keep track of what they are getting each session so they don't go over the stated max for the section. The real issue comes when downtime and renown points are awarded. They are only awarded at the end of a segment of the adventure...not at the end of every session. What if I have a player that was only there for the last secion? What if I have a player that was there for all of it but the last section? Do they not get any of the renown and downtime? I'm really struggling with this. I don't have players that miss often, but everyone needs to take a day off from time to time...and I want to make sure that I keep everything AL legal.
#2 zingbobco000 Jun 11, 2015 8:22:34	The AL rules specifically say that they gain downtime and renown at the end of an episode/area/side quest or whatever. I understand your frustration with these rules but I feel like this a very easy way to have it make sense. This might be changed and altered over the next couple years but for now it at least kinda works for the most part. If I could I would change is slightly but once again I think that for now it's a good decision. What you're doing is correct by AL rules, interestingly enough though, you can actually tell your players that (at least I think this is true if not someone should correct me) they can play in that part again as they never really "completed" it.
#3 Pauper Jun 11, 2015 8:28:05	Here's the guidance I've come up with, from the Recommended Rulings thread: The current consensus appears to be that, if you attended the last session of the episode, the DM can award your character full renown and downtime days for the episode (this is most appropriate if your character reached the XP cap for the episode, in effect 'fully participating' in the episode), or can award full renown and a pro-rated number of downtime days based on the ratio of sessions you attended. (So if you attended two of the four sessions run for that episode, the DM would award you 5 downtime days out of the normal 10.) If you didn't attend the last session of the episode but attend a later session, the DM can award your character pro-rated downtime days based on the ratio of sessions you attended; the DM can also award renown if you attended at least half of the episode's sessions. You would log these awards on your log for the current session with a note that they were awarded retroactively for the previous episode.
(Reply to #2) AggieBear	zingbobco000 wrote:
#5 AggieBear Jun 11, 2015 8:32:11	Thanks Pauper...that is helpful.
#6 Angry_Steak Jun 11, 2015 11:01:07	Since I was one of the folks that brought this up back in S1, I'd like to throw in my experience. During S1 I tried a few different methods to improve fairness. The first was pre-dividing downtime days based on an estimation of sessions. For example, let's estimate the Dragon Hatchery would take 3 sessions, splitting the downtime into 3-3-4. One group runs longer and finishes it in 2 sessions, splitting it into 3-7, where the "downtime remaining" is tossed into the finale. Group Two is a touch slower and runs in smaller stints, so their group takes 5 sessions making the split 3-3-4-0-0-0. This got more complicated as chapter length (and the variables within) increased so I scrapped it. Percentage-based was the next thing I tried. Master Copy says that an Episode took 5 sessions to complete. The split is 2-2-2-2-2. Several members missed two weeks, so their total is 6, while the others who showed up for everything get 10. This worked well for my home group since they're personal friends, but caused complications in public. I had some issues with retroactively awarding DT due to so many popping in and out. I'm also lazy and got tired of keeping a Master Copy for everything. This season I've just rolled with the standard end of episode distribution. It can be unfair at times (I've got a person who's made every day except the DT reward days), but most of the games I run are in the public sphere and I've come to love simplicity.
#7 Pauper Jun 11, 2015 14:54:21	That makes a lot of sense -- the intent behind the recommendation is to balance fairness to players with fairness to the DM -- expecting the volunteer DM to do tons of work keeping track of player attendence, especially at a large, busy venue, isn't realistic. If you find a system that works better for you and still convinces players to come out and play Encounters, I can't say you're doing it wrong. -- Pauper
#8 Kalani Jun 11, 2015 15:03:08	If someone comes up with a better system - I recommend passing it along to the campaign staff. You never know, it might be adopted in future seasons. With that being said - the official stance is that DT and renown are only granted at the end of an episode or adventure and does not have provisions for players who miss that session. Making provisions is admirable - but is (strictly speaking) a house rule as it contradicts the ALPG and other official rules sources. As such, it is not recommended to get into the habit of doing so as house rules are strictly prohibited. Where you find one house rule, you will eventually find others, making this a slippery slope. In addition, DMs have to be mindful of the fact that characters are portable and that they are setting up their players for a shock if they go to another table where the rules are "different". The reverse is equally true in respect to players coming to your table expecting certain rules - only to find those rules unexpectedly changed. While it is unlikely to cause upset in this instance, all deviations from the established rules run the risk of player upset.
#9 Coredump00 Jun 11, 2015 17:24:07	AggieBear wrote:
#10 Angry_Steak Jun 11, 2015 17:44:15	I've gotten into the habit of informing my players of some of the buy-ins involved with the OP experience. This helps me set things to memory and curb any chances at my players feeling blind-sided when "strange" occurrences show up (trading a statue for gold despite not being in town when a session ends). One thing is certain, though, I don't want my players going somewhere else and finding out that they can't play their character because I somehow made it invalid. I'm now curious if it's possible to broaden the rewards curve by adding more checkpoints that give smaller rewards. Initial thoughts suggest it would be difficult (Hoard Ep1 might work, but Tomb of Moving Stones wouldn't), but I've never run an expedition, nor in a venue that had more than two tables. The amount of organization, work, and rules complication that would be required is lost on me.
#11 Tyranthraxus Jun 11, 2015 18:39:14	Having now run Lost Mine for the last 3+ months, I have always made sure people know that the end of a 'part' is coming up. I fully let them know that is where Downtime and Renown is awarded and if they miss that session then they miss out. Generally my players are good on letting me know if they are going to make it or not. Ive got players who tell me weeks in advance that there wont be there on such and such a week. I think the best thing I can do as an AL GM is to advise people what is coming up. As the end of LMOP Part 4 is next Wed for my group, for the past month of Wednesdays Ive been advising my players that we will be moving on to Princes. (Some have hit level 5, others are level 3) One thing I will say about Lost Mine: ITs a freakin treasure trove!. Some people have gone from 0 magic items on the logsheet to 2. Everyone now has one.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

AggieBear

Jun 11, 2015 7:04:34

Hey everyone...hypothetical question for you.

The AL rules specifically state that characters for players that can't attend the AL session can't play for that session...and that those characters can't be played by another player that is also playing a character...I get that. No problem with it.

However, what I struggle with the the awarding of rewards. I try to divide up gp and xp and the end of each sesson and keep track of what they are getting each session so they don't go over the stated max for the section. The real issue comes when downtime and renown points are awarded. They are only awarded at the end of a segment of the adventure...not at the end of every session.

What if I have a player that was only there for the last secion? What if I have a player that was there for all of it but the last section? Do they not get any of the renown and downtime? I'm really struggling with this.

I don't have players that miss often, but everyone needs to take a day off from time to time...and I want to make sure that I keep everything AL legal.

zingbobco000

Jun 11, 2015 8:22:34

The AL rules specifically say that they gain downtime and renown at the end of an episode/area/side quest or whatever. I understand your frustration with these rules but I feel like this a very easy way to have it make sense. This might be changed and altered over the next couple years but for now it at least kinda works for the most part. If I could I would change is slightly but once again I think that for now it's a good decision. What you're doing is correct by AL rules, interestingly enough though, you can actually tell your players that (at least I think this is true if not someone should correct me) they can play in that part again as they never really "completed" it.

Pauper

Jun 11, 2015 8:28:05

Here's the guidance I've come up with, from the Recommended Rulings thread:

The current consensus appears to be that, if you attended the last session of the episode, the DM can award your character full renown and downtime days for the episode (this is most appropriate if your character reached the XP cap for the episode, in effect 'fully participating' in the episode), or can award full renown and a pro-rated number of downtime days based on the ratio of sessions you attended. (So if you attended two of the four sessions run for that episode, the DM would award you 5 downtime days out of the normal 10.) If you didn't attend the last session of the episode but attend a later session, the DM can award your character pro-rated downtime days based on the ratio of sessions you attended; the DM can also award renown if you attended at least half of the episode's sessions. You would log these awards on your log for the current session with a note that they were awarded retroactively for the previous episode.

(Reply to #2)

AggieBear

zingbobco000 wrote:

AggieBear

Jun 11, 2015 8:32:11

Thanks Pauper...that is helpful.

Angry_Steak

Jun 11, 2015 11:01:07

Since I was one of the folks that brought this up back in S1, I'd like to throw in my experience.

During S1 I tried a few different methods to improve fairness. The first was pre-dividing downtime days based on an estimation of sessions. For example, let's estimate the Dragon Hatchery would take 3 sessions, splitting the downtime into 3-3-4. One group runs longer and finishes it in 2 sessions, splitting it into 3-7, where the "downtime remaining" is tossed into the finale. Group Two is a touch slower and runs in smaller stints, so their group takes 5 sessions making the split 3-3-4-0-0-0. This got more complicated as chapter length (and the variables within) increased so I scrapped it.

Percentage-based was the next thing I tried. Master Copy says that an Episode took 5 sessions to complete. The split is 2-2-2-2-2. Several members missed two weeks, so their total is 6, while the others who showed up for everything get 10. This worked well for my home group since they're personal friends, but caused complications in public. I had some issues with retroactively awarding DT due to so many popping in and out. I'm also lazy and got tired of keeping a Master Copy for everything.

This season I've just rolled with the standard end of episode distribution. It can be unfair at times (I've got a person who's made every day except the DT reward days), but most of the games I run are in the public sphere and I've come to love simplicity.

Pauper

Jun 11, 2015 14:54:21

That makes a lot of sense -- the intent behind the recommendation is to balance fairness to players with fairness to the DM -- expecting the volunteer DM to do tons of work keeping track of player attendence, especially at a large, busy venue, isn't realistic.

If you find a system that works better for you and still convinces players to come out and play Encounters, I can't say you're doing it wrong.

Pauper

Kalani

Jun 11, 2015 15:03:08

If someone comes up with a better system - I recommend passing it along to the campaign staff. You never know, it might be adopted in future seasons.

With that being said - the official stance is that DT and renown are only granted at the end of an episode or adventure and does not have provisions for players who miss that session.

Making provisions is admirable - but is (strictly speaking) a house rule as it contradicts the ALPG and other official rules sources.

As such, it is not recommended to get into the habit of doing so as house rules are strictly prohibited. Where you find one house rule, you will eventually find others, making this a slippery slope.

In addition, DMs have to be mindful of the fact that characters are portable and that they are setting up their players for a shock if they go to another table where the rules are "different".

The reverse is equally true in respect to players coming to your table expecting certain rules - only to find those rules unexpectedly changed. While it is unlikely to cause upset in this instance, all deviations from the established rules run the risk of player upset.

Coredump00

Jun 11, 2015 17:24:07

AggieBear wrote:

#10

Angry_Steak

Jun 11, 2015 17:44:15

I've gotten into the habit of informing my players of some of the buy-ins involved with the OP experience. This helps me set things to memory and curb any chances at my players feeling blind-sided when "strange" occurrences show up (trading a statue for gold despite not being in town when a session ends).

One thing is certain, though, I don't want my players going somewhere else and finding out that they can't play their character because I somehow made it invalid.

I'm now curious if it's possible to broaden the rewards curve by adding more checkpoints that give smaller rewards. Initial thoughts suggest it would be difficult (Hoard Ep1 might work, but Tomb of Moving Stones wouldn't), but I've never run an expedition, nor in a venue that had more than two tables. The amount of organization, work, and rules complication that would be required is lost on me.

#11

Tyranthraxus

Jun 11, 2015 18:39:14

Having now run Lost Mine for the last 3+ months, I have always made sure people know that the end of a 'part' is coming up.

I fully let them know that is where Downtime and Renown is awarded and if they miss that session then they miss out. Generally my players are good on letting me know if they are going to make it or not. Ive got players who tell me weeks in advance that there wont be there on such and such a week.

I think the best thing I can do as an AL GM is to advise people what is coming up. As the end of LMOP Part 4 is next Wed for my group, for the past month of Wednesdays Ive been advising my players that we will be moving on to Princes. (Some have hit level 5, others are level 3)

One thing I will say about Lost Mine: ITs a freakin treasure trove!. Some people have gone from 0 magic items on the logsheet to 2. Everyone now has one.