Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 AlHazred Mar 18, 2015 8:47:22	So, I've been doing outreach to hobby shops in my area -- this is part of the duties of a Local Coordinator, and it's fun besides. I've run a few games at a couple of shops and tried to help set up a few more. I'm running into the problem that I don't have enough Dungeon Masters for D&D Encounters events at the hobby shops. I can get D&D Expeditions DMs to run on weekends, no problem. But the regular Wednesday 7PM timeslot is an issue for a lot of otherwise suitable people -- many have young kids or late-running jobs, and making a commitment to show up every week just isn't in the cards. Several DMs who initially expressed interest later backed out because of these Real Life commitments. So, I've been trying to expand my net. I've contacted my regular convention DMs, and hit up every game I regularly run or play in (three to four games a week at this point, two of which are Adventurers League events). I've posted to the private message boards local players hit. I've posted want ads in the Gamer Classifieds on this board. Does anybody else have any suggestions on attracting DMs?
#2 ZHDarkstar Mar 18, 2015 9:41:57	...Punch and pie... :P   Seriously though, see if some of the FLGS will let you put up a recruitment sign to gauge interest by location by the feedback. It would encourage the FLGS to take an active interest in the program, as it's a pretty solid marketing tool to increase brand sales given the limited production schedule in comparison to previous editions.
#3 BRJN Mar 18, 2015 14:41:12	AlHazred wrote:
#4 Tyranthraxus Mar 18, 2015 19:31:52	Sessions for encounters really shouldnt go beyond 2 hours anyway. Otherwise you will burn through the brief encounters document too quickly , then play a holding game until the hardback comes out.   I run my games from a hard 7 to 9. Occasionaly Ill go to about 9:15p, but thats a rarity. It also tends to keep things more focused and you get less people 'drifting' off checking phones etc. AlHazred: You have pretty much done everything you can. Other than continually talk up at sessions how great dming is.
#5 Kalani Mar 18, 2015 21:50:06	My store runs the Encounters time slot between 6:30 and 9(ish) pm. Sometimes it runs over a little (we don't have a hard timeline when the tables must pack up, but aim for 9 is all we ask). Even despite this, my table only just finished Hoard this week - having run it all season. The reason my table was 3 weeks behind on finishing was because I took a short 3-week detour at the end of episode 5 and ran Tyranny in Phlan for the table to help boost their levels.   Some of the other tables finished hoard a month ago, and are 3-4 weeks into Rise. I suspect they won't finish it until half-way through the season.   At the end of tonights session, 4 of my 5 players hit 7th level, while the 5th was about half way (he missed a few sessions). I used to have a table of 7 but two of my players dropped out in episode 5 and 6 respectively, due to how anemic the treasure was (I don't blame them).
#6 Noctaem Mar 19, 2015 6:33:01	Kalani wrote:
#7 QwertyAzerty Mar 19, 2015 7:10:37	BRJN wrote:
#8 AlHazred Mar 19, 2015 8:14:40	Where are people running 4-hour slots on Wednesdays?!? We've done 2-hour slots at our hobby store since I started the program there in 2009. It's a school night, and while people occasionally miss the start time of 7:00, they appreciate (I think) my punctuality in ending promptly at 9:00.
#9 Ravix Mar 19, 2015 18:05:55	Man I wish Encounters was 4-hours.
#10 Tyranthraxus Mar 19, 2015 19:08:08	I dont. I love that it is bite size chunks of around 2 hours. Expeditions is 4 hours.. you want some 4 hours.. play that!
#11 Byakugan01 Mar 20, 2015 3:50:55	Our AL had their first night of Season 2 tonight(not counting the expedition)   I am starting to lose my faith in the system.   Only 1 DM showed along with the Coordinator for a group of around 30 players.  So, the mood quickly devolved from happy character creation and giving advice to the new folks to trying to people quietly sneak away to grab one of the 14 chairs that had DMs.   The rest of us kinda sat around for a while after finishing our characters, quietly sulking and whispering to each other about who we could bribe to DM.   The consensus was that nobody was willing to DM.  The Coordinator pretty much shrugged his shoulders and said we were only creating characters anyways which sucked cuz we still had an hour and a half to go.   Half the players were new, and most of the rest were the shy introverted or eccentric types that you would be scared to play under anyways.  There were 3 or 4 of us that probably could have DMed...but none of us were willing.  I failed too, cuz I know I have the knowledge to run a game, but my PSA started to kick in and it pretty much wasn't gonna happen.  Ugh!
#12 imaginaryfriend Mar 20, 2015 4:52:21	I am having some difficulty relating that story to "the system". But then I do not really know what system is being referenced.  If its about people in general, yeah, sometimes humanity makes it pretty hard to keep the faith. If its in relation to Encounters, I do not get it.   I do sympathise, always a sad time when people do not get to play. I hope some additional DMs step up or/and your PSA gets out of the way.
#13 Byakugan01 Mar 20, 2015 5:53:44	The system as in the way our AL events are working....or not working.    Its partly rl cuz 2 DMs were out of state so ita not like they bailed.  It was known they were gone but there didnt seem to be any attempt to replace them...or have backups etc.    dont advertise a big public event if you arent prepared to deliver.
#14 smerwin29 Mar 20, 2015 5:55:01	One thing I have heard people doing is running "How to DM" sessions at local game stores or other public facilities. Some people are nervous about DMing because they don't feel like they would be good at it, and they can generally be shown that, while DMing does take some work, it is not as hard as it looks. AL Admin Robert Adducci talks about running just such a program in Denver on one of the offical D&D podcasts accessible from somewhere on the WotC site, and AL regional coordinator Cindy Moore is running one in Buffalo this weekend.   Baldman Games (who runs all of the official WotC D&D play at big shows like GenCon and Origins and Winter Fantasy and sometimes PAX) is creating a Herald's Guild of DMs, which will at some point before the end of the year have these sort of "Learn to DM" seminars available online. We will be able to download them to either use at local stores or cons, or people can watch them online, or hopefully both. More info on the Herald's Guild can be found at heraldsguild.com, and all are welcome to join.   One thing you could do is to say to players at locations where there are only a few DMs (low supply) but lots of interested players (high demand), "Hey, if you want to play, you need to at least think about DMing. Come to our DM information session if you want a seat as a player." Obviously not everyone is going to be interested in DMing, but people might come closer to understanding that DMing can be more rewarding than playing.   Good luck!
#15 Ainulindalion Mar 20, 2015 9:58:00	If they knew that half of their DMs would be missing for a week, even if it was the week the event was 'scheduled to start', they should have announced and maybe put up a sign that they would start properly next week, and that this week would be character building support only, particularly with regards to the new player options.   At least, that's my feeling.    But if you had 30 players, even if you've normally got 4 DMs, they still need to recruit more.
#16 AlHazred Mar 20, 2015 11:34:40	We have a pool of 10-12 'regulars' -- these are people who show up almost every week, barring extreme weather conditions or other Acts of Dog. We have 3 DMs; I include myself in that pool, and if we get a particularly low number of players, I'll run and let my DMs play their PCs for a change. That said, I have nightmares of ten to twenty people showing up unannounced to "try the new edition out" and me not being able to field DMs for them. We tried having an online signup via Meetup, but then I only had maybe 1 or 2 people RSVP, and still got the full group of 12.   What I need to recuit for is other stores, besides the one I run at. I can't be in three places at once, and I've had store managers at two widely-divergent locations beg me for DMs.
(Reply to #11) Coredump00	Byakugan01 wrote:
(Reply to #13) Coredump00	Byakugan01 wrote:
#19 Oraibi Mar 20, 2015 19:50:04	I'm not sure what "the system" could do in this situation to make things better, apart from maybe demanding that if you're able to DM, you must DM.   But I don't think anyone would like that.
#20 ZHDarkstar Mar 20, 2015 22:16:26	Well this week we distributed the faction folios, and I made sure to distribute the DM folios after the players had all picked up their folders. That way, the players see that something extra comes from running tables. I know that they're a limited product, but things of that nature can yield a positive effect on the community over time. If there was a way to get more folders, especially in the longer seasons, it'd give the FLGS a way to grow their communities and cover groups that have grown beyond the initial releases can cover. I usually have a 2-3 session minimum before giving the DMs their folios to weed out those who just want the magic item certs.
#21 Byakugan01 Mar 21, 2015 3:34:44	You completely misunderstood what i was saying, core.     2 DMs were gone but we knew they were going to be gone. We had at least a couple weeks notice.   I was grumpy because the LGS seemed to put a lot of effort into advertising about season 2 starting, then didn't line up any DMs to run tables.     I'm actually going to revise my initial number of players from 30 to closer to 40.  We had 8 sitting at our table,  another 7 each at the 2 tables with DMs, and another table with another 8, plus probably a bunch of others sitting at individual tables in little clusters seeming just as sulky as us.  I think a handful of other folks just left after 6 because no groups.    Even if those 2 DM were there they still would be a couple DMs short. Not a new problem for us. It's been going on pretty much since i started going to AL 4 months ago.  Is this common at a lot of other locations too?
#22 Coredump00 Mar 21, 2015 7:33:48	If it s common, why haven't you, or anyone, volunteers to help out? Or at least rotate DM responsibilities?   What do you expect the coordinator to do about it? They can't just go down to Wal-mart and pick up a six-pack of DMs.   The Coordinator and DMs are volunteering their time, the store is volunteering space and a little manpower, the AL admins are volunteering their efforts, and WotC is paying for the overhead. But you are upset because it isn't running well enough to meet your needs...?? Perhaps one of you volunteer to DM, instead of just complaining about those that do step up and volunteer.   As for last week specifically.... you reported the Coordinator being unconcerned because it was just character creation.... sorry, but that makes sense.  Now maybe creation went a lot faster than they expected, but I know my store did something similar for ToD. If they didn't announce that sufficiently, perhaps thats an issue, but c'mon.... not a big one.  From the LCs I have spoken with, there tends to be a player drop off after the first couple of weeks.
#23 RCanine Mar 21, 2015 8:23:05	I loved D&D encounters, but it's just too challenging to make 7pm on a weeknight work; in my area 10-7 is more common than 9-5. What would be awesome is allowing a make-up day. Like a weekend. When people don't work.
(Reply to #23) Ainulindalion	RCanine wrote:
#25 CoreyartustheSecond Mar 21, 2015 21:41:37	There seem to be several inherent hiccups in the Encounters program itself that need to be addressed in order to encourage DM development.   1)  The ongoing serialized nature of the adventure itself discourages DMs from what appears, at the outset, to require a multi-month ongoing commitment.  This doesn't encourage rotating DMs, as the DMs have to have an understanding of how each scenario dovetails into the larger picture (and who wants to meta-game not having that knowledge when you're playing?).   2)  AL's weak spot is that it hinges entirely upon volunteer DMs to facilitate its success.  Without DMs to step up it collapses, regardless of how many players are interested, or if there is space or opportunity, or ultimately whether the program is succeeding in generating interest as a marketing tool for playing D&D.     3)  Encounters is at the mercy of WotC's published adventures and the homegame paradigm for which they are intended.  The logistics of contorting the material into the Encounters structure (2-hour sessions, rotating players, controlling XP for the sake of Organized Play, enforcing AL policies and procedures, etc) decreases the coherency of the experience ("Why are we doing this?  What does this have to do with anything?") and puts a burden on DMs to not only know how to DM but know how to do it "the AL way".   There seem to be several "programatic" ways AL could help facilitate solutions to stores with more players than DMs.   1) Articulate specific methods that help an Organizer enable rotating DMs.  This could require adventures be written with more "distinct" separations from one written encounter to another, so as to not require DMs to have a thorough knowledge of the overall arc from one session to another, much like Expeditions (to an extent).  Or it might require the development of a sidebar of information spelling out how to "compartmentalize" adventures, or it might simply require more careful formatting that partitions the material into component pieces easily separated from the whole.   2) DM Tracking.  If WotC can keep track of Magic the Gathering DCI numbers the way they do, there's no excuse not to keep track of player and DM numbers--at least the number of games they've played.  To enable the program to exist on the backs of its volunteer DMs, tiered rewards for DMing (x-number of sessions earns you this) should be implemented.  I know this complicates things in a direction AL doesn't desire (keep it loose/keep it simple), and I know it costs money, but what's the point if no one ends up playing for lack of motivated DMs?     3) Create an AL DM Guide with advice, practical solutions, and examples that make it less like the textbook that is the Players Guide.  It needs graphics and charts, not paragraphs of block text that read like math formulas.  It needs visual examples of pages from adventures with arrows that point out information and formatting (like the app Skitch can do for photos).  It needs a sample adventure in the back.  It doesn't need to be a DMG, but it needs to clearly point out the differences between DMing for D&D, and DMing for an OP.   4) The hardest part of DMing in AL is knowing how to read between the lines of game rules, OP policies, and OP procedures.  Please Just. Say. It.  No can mean NO.  "We do not recommend" or "isn't encouraged" simply muddies things, and demonstrates that the OP is non-committal, putting their DMs in situations where they have to extemporize.  What isn't said is often as important as what is said in AL.  And that's off-putting.  DM empowerment often goes hand-in-hand with DM awareness, comprehension, and understanding of the rules (and their reasons) in the eyes of the players.  It can feel sometimes that AL unintentionally undermines that.   The solution at my particular venue is to simply encourage DMs to commit to the whole thing--in essence running a homeplay campaign in a store setting with rotating players--not an attractive prospect for some.  While it can be said that's what a person might commit to in their own home campaign, with Encounters there are additional expectations (policies and procedures within which to operate, rotating players, etc) that a home campaign outside of AL's structure simply doesn't have to assume, consequently making the DM experience very different and daunting.     Bottom line: if WotC wants AL to succeed as a marketing tool, they need to invest in methods to address its shortcomings, and a shortage of DMs is a BIG shortcoming.  This isn't a consumer issue (i.e. lack of volunteerism), this is a flaw in the OP itself that curtails the goals of WotC's purpose for its existence.  I worry the very nature of the Encounter adventure offerings contradict what they've stated as their goals.
#26 CahPahkah Mar 21, 2015 14:47:46	CoreyartustheSecond wrote:
#27 Byakugan01 Mar 21, 2015 15:00:31	Our DMs aren't technically volunteers either. They recieve hourly compensation from the LGS.  I dont thing there is anything at all wrong with that. But it does change the dynamic.    If they are 'hiring' DMs then they should either hire more or offer more pay to attract qualified DMployees.    After the season 2 premiere i can TOtALlY understand why players drop out so fast.   Seems like a bug not a feature.
(Reply to #24) Coredump00	Ainulindalion wrote:
#29 Byakugan01 Mar 21, 2015 20:07:32	Coredump, what if the DM says it counts as Encounters?  What a conundrum!  If it doesn't count as encounters, then they are guilty of not following their own rule that the DM is in charge.  Which would mean all of AL was casual play!     Fortunately there is no real difference between casual play and encounters.  Other than people being nitpicky.    For example, all our Encounters events are on Thursday, and Expeditions are Saturdays.    Since all the other rules get ignored/changed continuously, there isn't really a difference.
(Reply to #29) TheBreen	It shouldn't matter to the players or DM whether it's called Encounters or something else. It does, however, matter to the store and to WotC. The difference is in how it's shown on the Wizards Event Locator, and potentially the credit the store gets for holding the event. For example, my FLGS only has D&D on Mondays, so they are not listed as holding Encounters events at all. If you were to search for Encounters, you would not see that store listed. All of its events, regardless of what we're actually playing, are listed as "D&D Casual Event."   Whether that matters to the store, the only effect for the general public is in locating a place to play if they've heard of the Encounters program and want to try that.
#31 Byakugan01 Mar 21, 2015 22:13:15	Our LGS advertises it as Encounters on their event calendar...and we got our player and DM folios and everything. And our little st patties day boon.  So presumeably wotc has them as participating cuz they sent us all the stuff.    They call it encounters when they describe it to people.   Must be another bug.
#32 CoreyartustheSecond Mar 21, 2015 22:42:14	Thinking completely out of the box, perhaps developing new DMs and new players might also be facilitated by making the evergreen adventures (Lost Mines of Phandelver and any other potential ones that are developed) and the initial Expeditions mods (DDEX1-1 and DDEX2-1) the entirety of the Encounters program.     In turn, the ongoing serialized adventures available in book form (HotDQ, RoT and PotA) could then be offered as "Excursions" or "Explorations", which would be an entirely different program offering, with its own expectations and parameters of play just as Expeditions currently has slightly different expectations and parameters from Encounters.  It could be the "ongoing campaign" variation that is contrasted to the 4-hour Expeditions mode and 2-hour introductory Encounters mode.   This would enable new players to be introduced to D&D and allow new DMs to cut their teeth without committing to a multi-month experience.  WotC would still get Encounters every Wednesday, but it just wouldn't have to be serialized (which is probably one of the most disorienting experiences for new players trying to learn new rules--"What's the backstory?  How does my character fit in and why are we doing this?  And what exactly is it that we're doing, by the way?")   I would venture it's cheaper for WotC to outsource an adventure in the long run than it is to deal with an impacted OP of disgruntled players, and certainly easier for AL's staff to facilitate the evergreen and introductory Expeditions adventures than it is to spend time contorting WotC's latest campaign every 6 months...   The impact on Expeditions would seem negligible--it would simply continue to exist as it is--the most traditional, accepted, and successful form of OP play slot that has proven itself over and over again through the years. Most of those adventures are already broken up into relatively distinct "parts" that could potentially be easier to modify into optional 2-hour sessions (if necessary) than one of WotC's campaign books. And since AL seems primarily responsible for their content, they can have them written to fit their desired time format.     Epics wouldn't be affected at all.  The new "Excursions/Explorations" mode of play would get to be a specific long-form play experience unique and different from any other OP's offerings in the past, being able to fully utilize WotC's complete published adventures with little modifications by virtue of it's longer form being a feature and AL being able to stipulate when PC's could enter/exit play.  Thus less of a hurdle for DMs.  And keeping it in a store by offering the same certs currently offered as a carrot, while enabling PC portability at more opportune times in the adventure's development, means the store doesn't lose out either.   This would, in essence, empower the Expeditions mode of play in AL, which is really where AL has the flexibility to create and design different adventures, and thus the most freedom.  It would also allow new players to be introduced to a taste of Expeditions through the mini-adventures under the auspices of Encounters play.  In the end, AL would be able to offer DMs a choice to step up to run short adventures, medium-sized adventures, long-form adventures, or Epic convention adventures depending on their desires, time, and experience.     All this might encourage new DMs to participate if they knew they didn't have to wrap their heads around months of game prep, but instead only had to handle one simple 2-hour adventure.  Encounters would indeed be a "gateway drug" for D&D for DMs.  And those players that want a long-term campaign could make it happen without completely disassociating their PCs from the OP.
(Reply to #29) Coredump00	Byakugan01 wrote:
(Reply to #31) Coredump00	Byakugan01 wrote:
#35 Byakugan01 Mar 22, 2015 0:56:05	This conversation peaked my curiosity. So i checked the WotC event locator to see how they had us listed.    Anchorage, AK Bosco's.  DnD Encounters, thursday's 6-8:15.    Looks like lying isnt required. Ohh bother..   Feel free to join us for Thursday encounters if u are ever in town.  Mayhaps you like to DM?     Do you actually think playing DnD is free?  You get that host stores are driven by the profit motive, right?  People buy books and dice and a bunch of other crap to play DnD.  Some people drive from 50 miles away to get here for their dnd fix each week.   Do you think it is unreasonable to expect a company that wants your money to provide a good experience?  A company that hangs a bunch of poster advertisements and e-mails people electronic invites, and announces the upcoming events ahead of time, and publicly advertises on their websites?  The absolute bare minimum to have a game is some players and a DM.
#36 Spykes Mar 22, 2015 18:28:22	I think we need to get past the idea of recruiting outside DMs. The DMs you're looking for are in your existing player base. Focus efforts on ways of encouraging and cultivating your existing resources.   Continue to build tables of players by forming groups with diverse experience. Inform the group that the group is low on DMs and they will need to determine their DM from the players at their table. Let them decide who it will be. That way at least you are turning them away.