Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 QwertyAzerty Jan 30, 2015 10:38:24	Ok in my group we have this new player who made this character who someone always goes against the group decision (if the group say ok let's wait here and make a plan, he run ahead yelling. or if we say ok we'll stay here with cover and shoot them from here, he run ahead yelling showing all the ennemy where the group is.   When we ask him to stop doing that he tell us that he is a low Intellect, low Wisdom (8 in both stats) barbarian so he must do that.   So I was wondering if I (divination wizard) tell him that I saw a premonition of him getting awfully hurt today if he rush ahead but if he wait and ambush them he will get great success. (I rolled a 20 and a 4 on my divinition daily dices) if he rush ahead I'll give the enemy my 20 to hit him and give him the 4 to hit the enemies, prooving him that my premonition are reality, but if he stay hidden and ambush them with us, then I'll give him my 20 and the 4 to the ennemy assuring him to have great success during the fight.   would that be legal in order to convinve the character (since the player knows he's doing something stupid, but that what he's saying his low intellect/wisdom barbarian should do, but if the "shaman" of the group can inform him of his vision, then he might listen to him specially if what he says become reality.
#2 Galahad67 Jan 30, 2015 11:38:43	Inform him that healing and rescue from the rest of the party isn't going to happen until he starts playing as part of the team.   When he rushes ahead to charge the enemy have the rest of the party stay out. No PVP does not mean you have to let him lead. Just let his character suffer the result fo his stupidity. after having to redo his character a couple of times he should learn  that his playstyle is a non-starter.
#3 TheBreen Jan 30, 2015 11:52:24	"That's what my character would do" has been used to 'justify' a lot of antisocial player activity.                               It's a load of crap. Don't put up with it.   See the Code of Conduct (Adventurers League Player Guide page 14) regarding disruptive players. In part: Participants must not conduct themselves in a manner that is disruptive to the enjoyment or safety of others at the event.  Participants noticing disruptive behavior should make those responsible for the behavior aware of their actions. If a participant feels uncomfortable bringing it to the attention of the disruptive individual, the participant should notify the organizer of the event immediately. • The Dungeon Master has the right to ask a disruptive player to leave the table and speak with the organizer. The organizer has the right to remove a disruptive or threatening player or Dungeon Master from the play area or premises.
#4 QwertyAzerty Jan 30, 2015 12:27:46	I don't want to bring real life consequences into this, since the guy is a good friend and he usually play great character, it's just that this character got the flaw of being impulsive and impatient. So I'm trying to find a in game role playing solution to convinve his character to play nice with the group.   Just letting him go and die, still put pressure ont he party since his revealing our hiding spot/location, and we kind of need him to absorbe the damage otherwise my divinitation wizard will die on the first hit (got 13 AC (10 dex) and -1 Constitution so very low HP, but I have great perception, so great that I can see in the future lol^^ our cleric might be able to protect us a little bit, but not as well have a barbarian having resistance to non magical damage and our rogue simply cause a distraction and go hide elsewhere so he still get his sneak attack and can survive no matter what happen. The problem with small group each member have a role and we cannot just let one die otherwise we are missing an important pillar.
#5 Avross Jan 30, 2015 15:16:39	I've seen this a lot...someone gets an idea in their head for a character and they take the idea to the extreme.   And for one reason or another, it gets old real fast.   I've played with three separate people who have created "pacifist" characters., fighters with abysmal strength, dexterity, *and* constitution scores, characters who don't speak any language known by anyone on this side of the planet, 1st edition's "unconscious fighter" , a wizards who would only cast "blue" spells (yes, really...), and of course, the guy with a low Int/Wis where the player rolls a d20 every 30 seconds to decide whether his character thinks of something which should be obvious.   Qwerty, you mention each member of your party is supposed to have a role.   That sounds like an agreement that was made between players.   Let the player know that he isn't living up to that agreement...it will mean more if your fellow players also echo you on that.      And there are ways for him to role-play that character flaw without subverting the party... If he's supposed to be a rock-stupid moron, work out that the party agrees to do X...but tells him that Y is the plan.   Or role-play out that you are explaining and re-explaining the plan to King Dum-Dum while the rogue is already moving off into position.  (Heck, remind the player that if he can role-play the character well without being disruptive, most DMs would consider that grounds for awarding Inspiration.
#6 BRJN Jan 30, 2015 17:51:43	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#7 madscientistlabrat Jan 30, 2015 19:27:18	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#8 Oraibi Jan 30, 2015 23:51:08	Two things here, which most people have addressed separately:   1. This guy's behavior is disruptive and needs to stop. The best way to get him to stop is to speak to him as a peer (as a fellow player, not in character), and then maybe as the group. Only in the most extreme circumstances should it escalate to the point of getting the DM and/or the store's AL coordinator involved -- but if that's what it takes, then so be it.   2. The solution is definitely NOT to try this kind of fight-fire-with-fire thing where you or the other players engage in disruptive behavior yourself and try to get him killed. That's just as bad and will make the overall game bad for everyone involved. Don't do it.   Good luck!
#9 Undrhil Jan 31, 2015 10:28:23	If he rushes forward, then, as a group, move away stealthily.  The enemy will be focusing on the big loud barbarian rushing at them and not the rustling bushes behind him.  Then, if he is really dumb and starts pointing behind him "There's more of us coming!" the enemy will think he's completely nuts since there's no one there where he's pointing.  Let him look the fool, but then come in from the other side and let the party take charge of the combat.   Then, after the game, tell the player he's not welcome back if he keeps up playing his character that way.   And 8 INT, 8 WIS character is not completely dumb.  Think of this character as the "dumb jock" in a foot ball game.  He knows how to follow a game plan; he's smart enough to know who to fight and who to not fight.  If he is playing his character as dumb as he says he is, then he should be attacking PCs left and right (which would be grounds to have him ejected from the game for disruptive gameplay.)
#10 BRJN Jan 31, 2015 15:35:54	Undrhil wrote:
(Reply to #10) Undrhil	BRJN wrote:
#12 Enevhar_Aldarion Feb 02, 2015 0:36:20	It really sounds like he is playing his character a lot dumber than an 8 Int/8 Wis character would be.  An 8 or 9 in a stat is only a -1 modifier, so for Int, a character would be a bit slow, not an idiot or mentally handicapped. As for Wis, he may be a bit more erratic and impulsive, but in no way to the point you describe where he constantly does the opposite of everthing the party wants to do. He is playing more like he has 5 or 6 in the stats and not an 8. But I do not know how you can explain this to him without causing IRL issues between people, as you said you wanted to avoid.
#13 Noon Feb 04, 2015 22:17:31	Undrhil wrote:
#14 KLangleySeattle Feb 04, 2015 23:16:29	I'll take a slightly different position and say that I think your solution is brilliant!  It allows the player to behave better without breaking his character  concept  (as he sees it) . By being in superstitious awe of your precognitive powers and always asking you what to do, then following that advice  - a bit too literally sometimes, or too inflexibly - he can follow the plan without "playing too smart".  Your job is to give him simple, clear instructions that even a barbarian can follow. If it's not just a matter of how he interprets his low stats (and as others have said, 8 is not that low - anyone with a cripplingly low stat would never have become an adventurer, Elric and Raistlin notwithstanding), but rather a specific Flaw of "impulsive" or "reckless", then it's a bit tougher.  Explain to him that those flaws are not intended to mean "sabotage the party", or they would not have been published.  Flaws come into play occasionally, not constantly.  Impulsive characters can follow a plan - mostly. They can hold for an ambush - until the villain kicks a puppy.   If the party leader sounds the retreat, the barbarian would probably go along with it if he personally is beat down some.  However, if he's winning his particular melee at the moment, he may not care that the cleric's down and the mage is out of spells, until the guy he's hitting falls and he has a chance to look around.  He should lack situational awareness, but not basic combat knowledge.
#15 Kalani Feb 05, 2015 6:23:59	KLangleySeattle wrote:
#16 Oraibi Feb 05, 2015 11:45:29	To be fair, 8 hit points at 3rd level does seen cripplingly low by today's standards! (If he were a 5e AL character he'd have 14 -- or even 11 with an 8 dump stat for Con.)
#17 macr05s Feb 05, 2015 12:01:17	8 hp for raistlin was done properly since it was AD&D 3D4's average die rolls of 3+2+3=8 with no con mod....
#18 Oraibi Feb 05, 2015 14:36:30	Oh, I know it was done fairly. I'm just saying that by the standards of modern D&D, any third level character who can get one-shotted by a single sword blow (with no Str bonus on damage) seems pretty bad.
(Reply to #18) TheBreen	Oraibi wrote:
#20 BRJN Feb 07, 2015 7:16:26	"INT 8 does NOT have to mean cripplingly stupid", continued:   I just played a session with a Druid who was a total "flower child tree-hugger" (most cardboard-cutout stereotype you can think of) who just happened to be casting Animal Friendship on the meanest-looking guard wolves, turning them into non-factors in the fight.  He also was trained in Medicine, so he took time off from scratching the big doggie's tummy to stabilize any of his allies who went down.
#21 Azylynne Feb 09, 2015 6:12:36	To add on the Int 8 does not mean crippling stupid... Ogres are considered stupid, they are Int 5.  Even Ogres, on some level, employ tactics.  Wolves are Int 3, they employ pack tactics. I would ask your friend nicely to have his character play along nicely as it is honestly causing you and others some distress.  If he is a good friend, and he understands that he is somewhat disruptive, he should comply on some level.  Unless he's 12yo or something. On a side note, one of our characters (Paladin) was Int 5 (he raised it to 6 when he hit 4th level, just so he could be considered smarter than an ogre and can could count more than 10), it has been a very interesting, non-crippling, fun character that has added some new dimensions in roleplaying to our group.  More recently he now is able to summon his riding steed, which is Int 6.  Everyone at the table is rolling in laughter in how the pally's steed was "almost" smarter than the Paladin himself.  The party is now hunting down a Helm of Intellect (raises Int to 19) where several charaters are planning to do nefarious things with it just to taunt each other (including putting it on a pet skunk).
#22 Pauper Feb 09, 2015 8:33:48	On the flip side of the coin, you've got guys like this:   Beek Gwenders of Croodle Half-Elf Ranger 9   Str 15 Dex 17 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 16   This is one of the pre-generated tournament characters from the original G-series modules, and pretty much every one of those guys is stat-tastic, often in ways that don't make a lot of sense if you're choosing stats. (Good old Fonkin Hoddypeak, the High Elf Fighter/Magic-User has an 18 Dex and 18 Charisma; Strength and Intelligence are both 15.)   I'd like to think that Gygax himself was the origin of the 'all your stats need to be high to be a hero' meme, but really it's just an outgrowth of the pre-Third Edition stat system. In a number of cases (Strength bonus to attack and damage, Dex bonus to AC), you needed at least a 15 to see any appreciable benefit, and thus a 14 stat was largely indistinguishable from a 7.   On the other hand, if it was the stat system and not Gygaxian excess that was responsible for 'all high stats' mania, I'd have thought that would go away once Third Edition became popular -- after all, a Third Edition character with 12 Strength has slightly better combat bonuses than an AD&D character with 15 Strength. (The latter gets +1 to damage, but the former gets +1 to attacks and damage.) Sadly, no such luck.   -- Pauper
#23 Oraibi Feb 09, 2015 13:10:09	They grow em tough in Croodle. My standards for "high stats" have adjusted a lot based on 4th and 5th edition, compared to when I played AD&D!