Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide
Well, it's not a full FRCS but it will certainly be interesting. I hope AL gets the chance to preview it early enough
New subraces that makes me wonder if their will be any sources info for Rage of Demons? But we are finally getting new subclasses like Purple Dragon Knight possible Fighter subclass. Of course Swash Buckler which is a rogue subclass. Then there is the Blade singer which is yet again WOTC attempt to not use SwordMage because the lazy bums don't want to make a bunch of spells that are not used by most casters or Arcane castes.
They only want arcane classes and subclasses that are universally using all the spells they already have that way they don't have to make a bunch of new spells for a specific class!! Even though blade pact could use them and if the do Hex blade as well !
We don't get to preview this stuff. Ironically we are discussing this on FB as we speak. Robert just said that there is no mention of this in the upcoming players guide - but that he thinks it "should" be legal and worthy of an update upon release.
Keep in mind - this comment is simply his opinion and should not be taken as a promise or fact. It makes logical sense however that this product will be AL legal on release.
Nozareem wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Nozareem wrote:
The SwordMage would be a stand alone class with three subclasses Coronal Guard of the elves, Anarch of Shyr of the Genasi, and Umbiri of the Netheries shade, shadar-kai, humans.
That would be my suspicion as well. We don't even know if the blade singer is a class or subclass (it's not very clear). If it is a class, I would be curious what source material they poached for the two+ subclasses
. If it is a subclass, my money is on a subclass of ranger so as not to step on the toes of the EK or AT.
Kalani wrote:
Personally If Its the Sword Coast expanion, then any additional subclasses should reflect the region not the Myth Drannor, Evermeet or other areas. There should be something for Neverwinter/Waterdeep/Luskan other. Stuff that represents those areas. My hope is that they fill out the classes they have and bring the range of subclasses up to 3. Which means both the Druid and Ranger here.
Also my hope is that they hold off introducing anything new from this book until Season 4. I dont like the 'rules' changing midway through a season. Time should be taken to go through them and there would be more than enough time for this before Season 4.
I also dont see the need for a Swordmage when you have the Eldritch Knight. The Swordmage is a very 4e creation and the EK fits thats role if its needed. Its much better to release setting specific stuff for the Sword Cast. Perhaps a Luskan Buccaneer sub class for Rogue or similar.
This does not hit the shelves til November, so I would not expect any of it to be legal til Season 4. That gives the stafff 3-4 months from the release date to go over everything and decide what will be legal and what will not be.
I fully expect the book to hit and then we have people pleading in here/facebook to be allowed to use the book 'right now!'.
I am not spending a dime on any more 5e products until they start hiring 'boutique' companies that have a clue how the rules system actually works....wingwear, et al...were a travesty. I'm kinda tired of investing hours opon hours discussing rules quirks and unexpected rules interactions, when the usual response is 'We have no say, since that other company did it...we have no say because the admins r in charge, we have no say because we are only volunteers and the AL Gods don't actually consult us before giving us rules we have to follow.'
Maybe the alienation of players from AL is intentional? Maybe it makes them more money when a new player plays for like 3 sessions and buys their book, then stops showing up when they realize what a trainwreck it actually is?
yes, que the accusations of hyperbole. Fact is they did a lot of stuff well in 5e...but they also screwed up plenty, and they seem content not to fix those things.
Season 2 started at 6 stuffed tables and people being turned away to just 6 full tables, to 5 tables, to 4 tables with room and the LC barely shows up any more.
This sets the stage for possible every year now WOTC will launch a new FRCG in a different area of Forgotten Realms and it will contain similar elements as this one will with new races and subclasses and lore of the area. Eventually we will get a PBH2 and those classes will be added into the mix of the FRCG stuff.
Don't anyone worry as soon as the book comes out there will be something posted about what will be legal and what won't be in AL. I have a high level RC in my area who probably will verify that much about the playability and what not.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Hey WotC,
I gotta ask... what is your obsession with the Sword Coast? Seriously?! 5E Start Set—Sword Coast, Hoard of Dragon Queen—Sword Coast, Princes of Apocolypse—Sword Coast, Sword Coast Legends—Sword Coast, Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide—Sword Coast, Lords of Waterdeep—Sword Coast, Neverwinter Nights—Sword Coast, Baldur's Gate—Sword Coast.
Are you seriously just running out of ideas? It sounds like you're playing a business model that extends your current library of content, so you don't have to develop anything new. You just keep rehashing your old stuff.
Enough with the Sword Coast already. Ed Greenwood developed a whole world for the players to explore. Where is the Forgotten Realms guide? Where is Dragonhawk or Eberron or Dark Sun?
I'm pleased with 5th Edition enough. You've created a good core rule system here. WAY better than 4th and a vast improvement on 3.5.
Now follow through. And stop shoving the Sword Coast down our throats.
You've lost me. I don't need any other core books. And I won't be purchasing anything Sword Coast related.
BEEN THERE. SEEN THAT! SHOW ME SOMETHING NEW! #sosickoftheswordcoast
Thanks,
Jake
Its part of a comparmentalized strategy. Published books are generally in the Sword Coat. OP is the Moonsea. Comic is Baldur's Gate. Etc... That way you don't have to worry about something you are planning being messed up by another division.
I agree that compartmentalization is a good strategy - but I would still like to see things set in different worlds myself. FR, and Greyhawk are my least favorite settings. I prefer Dragonlance, Eberron, Darksun and Ravenloft myself. I never got a chance to play Planescape, Birthright or Spelljammer and would love to give those settings a try as well.
The other thing is - almost all of their primary platforms are going to be set in the same area because it saves on customer awareness. They're trying to bring in new people, and throwing a giant world at new people can be overwhelming.
Neverwinter Nights PC games, Baldur's Gate PC games, Neverwinter MMORPG, Sword Coast Legends PC Game - all on the Sword Coast - and that's the kind of thing that brings in cross platform gamers.
D'rizzt novels? Mostly set on the Sword Coast/North, and like it or not, they sell like drugs.
All the major published adventures taking place in the area made the most famous by other platforms? Huh, I can't imagine why that's happening with a new product launch for 5E.
A new player product being released at the same time as a highly touted, hopefully unique computer game experience... that happens to focus on (and share a title with) the same area? Can't imagine why that's happening either.
The D&D team at WotC is clearly not very large any more, for whatever reason - the outsourcing, the glacial release schedule, all of those things make that very clear. They have to focus their efforts, and so they're focusing on things with the highest cross platform brand awareness to maximize profit while minimizing expenses.
If you (generalized 'you' referencing consumers of D&D products) don't buy the least risky (from a business standpoint) products they produce, they won't be permitted to produce things that are riskier - Eberron, Greyhawk, Planescape, Ravenloft, etc.
Skerrit wrote:
Nozareem wrote:
Nozareem wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
Nozareem wrote:
Also isnt Winter Fantasy like in Jan or Feb? Its only July Dude. Give the admin team/ organisers some time so they can administer the new season and get all that stuff ready. Im sure WF will get something. Its like 7 months away.
They just let Australia get its first special event in 2016 so Im estatic about that. Its gonna be awesome.
Skerrit: I think its great all you guys have done for AL and both Expeditions and Encounters. Please dont let some self entitlement people ( I wont use the word I wanted to) like Nozareem get you down.
Kalani wrote:
abanathie wrote:
I just hope that most of the new material is deemed AL legal for Season 4. I'd hate for it to end up like the DMG, whose primary function in the AL is magic item catalog. I don't want to spend $40+ on a book where I can only use <40% of the contents.
Ainulindalion wrote:
abanathie wrote:
I think that Bladesinger could end up being a Bard subclass, or at least be based off the Bard chassis. As they are based around blending art, swordplay, and arcane magic, Bard seems like the logical choice. While it might have the possibility of stepping on the Valor Bard's toes, I could see it being a worthy enough subclass for the Bard. Here's what I would give a Bladesinger Bard:
- 3rd level: Proficiency in two skills (Acrobatics/Arcana/Athletics/Performance) and either a Fighting Style (Defense/Dueling) or modified Cunning Action (Dash/Disengage/Dodge)
- 6th level: Extra Attack (only thing in common with Valor)
- 14th level: A modified version of Martial Arts bonus action attack when attacking with longsword/rapier.
Personally, I want to see a gish class with 0-6th level spells. I know that they were historically referred to as 3/4 casters, but I think 2/3 would be a more balanced way of determining multiclass casting. It would give more opportunity cost to multiclass optimization. Taking 4 levels in that class would make optimizers have give up a level of multiclass progression for the ASI. My biggest complaint with using Eldritch Knight as a gish is that you spend two levels being magically impotent, unless your race allows you to start with a cantrip at 1st level.
I don't think Bard will happen simply due to the existence of the Valor Bard. In addition, CHA won't synergize well with the elven INT bonus. For the same reason, I don't think Ranger, despite superficially being a good option, due to the reliance on WIS. They could create a feature that replaces CHA or WIS for INT in a spellcasting feature; however, I don't think that will be an elegant solution.
abanathie wrote:
abanathie wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Fey'ri aren't a fiendish elf variant. They are a race of winged Elf-Tieflings which descend from succubi.
On a side note, I am quite suyrprised that this was announced over a week before Gencon. Since they did not save the reveal for next weekend, it makes me wonder if something even bigger will be announced at the convention. 
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
You could simply have a variant High Elf that gets Cha and a Bard cantrip instead of Int and a Wizard cantrip. Add a little fluff that would tie to both Bladesingers and Oath of the Ancients Paladin.
5e's reliance on the subclass system to port over previous editions classes sometimes leads to materials that feel very different than their previous incarnations, like the UA playtest Favored Soul as a subclass for Sorcerer. Retaining Sorcerer spell access made it feel awkward as a spontaneous counterpart of Cleric. Oddly enough, the UA Favored Soul provides a good starting place for a Warmage subclass for Sorcerer.
Here's how you turn the UA Favored Soul into a Warmage:
- 1st level: Replace Domain Spells with a list of damage-dealing spells that don't appear on the Sorcerer list (Ottiluke's Freezing Sphere and Inflict Wounds, I'm looking at you)
- 6th level: Replace Extra Attack with psuedo Action Surge short rest ability to spend SP to ignore the rule regarding casting bonus action and normal action spells in the same turn.
- 14th level: Replace Wings with Arcane Edge (+Cha to all damage-dealing spells)
- 18th level: Allow 6th level ability to be used twice per short rest
Hey, if we're looking for a new subclass, how about a Spellsinger Bard whose magic has a Wild Magic element? Bards are not the most studious of spellcasters, notoriously fickle. Let's say that if their instrument is out of tune that their spell could misfire? Since their spellcasting is CHA based anyway, it seems reasonable to believe that their personality drives their spells, not the spellbook.
Used to have a spellsinger in our old party, variant version of AD&D, who was happy-go-lucky, but fueled his spellsong with the anger of his friend who had been tortured by the enemies. Unlucky roll of the dice and things might backfire, but on a good roll and with an inspired idea he could turn "If Looks Could Kill" into a chain lightning spell. I would say that on their own, they could maybe shape the spell a bit, but not add anything to its effectiveness. But just as they contribute to their teammates with Inspiration and resting songs, they could draw additional power from their teammates for more powerful spells with this sort of ability.
That's my idea. I'll let you Wild Magic experts detail it.
Alternative idea - a Barbarian who goes back more to the natural world and is less focussed on his Rage.
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Byakugan01 wrote:
abanathie wrote:
Guys can we please focus back on the new Sword Coast Book. Make a new topic for your Bladesinger Elf fetish please
Im looking forward to more information on Waterdeep, Luskan!, Mirabar, Scornubel and many others. For me I love to see how these places are NOW
Also Port Llast and Candlekeep
Also a good article on the Sword Coast:
http://merricb.com/2015/05/07/an-introduction-to-the-forgotten-realms-the-sword-coast/
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Awesome BRJN. I havnt actually run a non AL game of 5e yet, but I will one day.
I foresee myself taking a day to add tabs to this book for easy access during gameplay. It has saved me so much table time when it comes to the PHB. I use red tabs for races, yellow for classes, and blue for everything else. This time I might add green tabs for bookmarking the different subregions of the Sword Coast as well.
What class do you think is getting the Purple Dragon Knight subclass? My guess is Paladin, due to the 3.5 PDK being able to continue gaining Paladin levels. Inspire Courage and Oath of Wrath would make good Channel Divinity options. Final Stand is a decent ability for 7th level Order ability.
ZHDarkstar wrote:
I don't know why they would make Bladesinger anything except for a Wizard School, since the Bladesinger was, historically, a prestige class of being an Elf Wizard.
It wouldn't even be that difficult. Just give Light armor proficiency and proficiency with, say, short swords or rapiers. Then, tie the school benefits to melee fighting: a reaction to cause melee attacks to have disadvantage, a bonus action to deal extra damage with melee attacks and caust cantrips as bonus actions for 1 minute, stack Mage Armor with light armor. Things like that, that could make the class on-par with other melee types, but they are still fragile with d6 hit dice.
abanathie wrote:
I don't have a problem if a subclass poaches core features of another class, such as the War Wizard poaching some of the metamagic powers. To get full access to metamagic, you would still need to be a sorcerer however, but minor access (or access to specific powers at specific levels) should cause no problems as long as the subclass doesn't get better options (or get options sooner) than the class they are poaching them from.
For example: I have no problem if War Wizard had the following options.
Level 6: At 6th level, you gain the abilty to apply metamagic properties to your wizard spells. You gain the Subtle Spell and one other metamagic power of your choice. You gain a limited number of spell slots to fuel your metamagic options equal to your wizard class level. If you have levels in the sorcerer class, your levels in wizard and sorcerer stack for the purpose of determining your spell points, and you can use your spell points from both classes interchangably.
In the above example the War Wizard gains the following:
- Spell points (as a sorcerer).
- Metamagic (as a sorcerer).
Unlike a sorcerer, my sample war wizard lacks the following:
- Ability to convert spell slots into sorcery points and vice versa.
- Ability to gain additional metamagic powers at higher levels.
Not only that, but they also gain sorcery points and metamagic powers 3 and 4 levels after the sorcerer class, so won't be stepping on their toes in any way, even if you discount the fact that wizards have few classes they share a spellcasting stat with (only EKs and ATs).
Undrhil wrote:
I never said that I was against granting War Wizards metamagic options. I merely highlighted the need for a balanced approach to granting such abilities. I think giving full sorcery points might be a bit too much. Instead of giving it SP, I'd have the WW use up Arcane Recovery levels to fuel its metamagic. Sorcerers must manage SP use between metamagic and slot recovery. Giving a WW full SP lets them have less resource management than Sorcs. If SP must be given to the WW, then it should be no more than half of what a Sorc gets at the same level.
As for increasing a Bladesinger's casting in combat, add half of your proficiency bonus when making saves to keep concentration at 2nd level. Bladesong could be a 10th level ability that adds Int to AC while concentrating on a spell. It would work thematically with the lore of Bladesingers' omnious singing while fighting.
My speculation is that they will finally make the Eladrin in the DMG a legal subrace of the Elf in this supplement. As far as other subraces are concerned, I'm not sure what they would be. I'm guessing maybe a new subrace of dwarf or halfling or even gnome. It would be really interesting if the dragonborn or tieflings get a subrace, though a seriously doubt it. Well, at least for FR.
Astromath wrote:
The Fey'ri are a tiefling subrace which descends from a union between elves and succubi/inccubi
Kalani wrote:
Nozareem wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
I'd say that my argument would have resistance to your logic, as the EEPC is more of an anamoly than a precedent, since there's no sign of a RODPC coming out. So I'll accept a hit for three. :P However, I still contend that providing alternatives to unbalanced materials would be an easier pill to swallow. I'd rather use a relatively weaker version of X than not be able to use X at all.
I agree that the Story Origin rules are to my liking, as it challenges my inner munchkin with a new mechanics puzzle twice a year. However, I wonder how the SCAG will be implemented into the SO system. For a book that's supposed to be representative of the region in which all current retail adventures occur, I think a touch of finesse will yield a more elegant solution than a heavyhanded approach.
Every SO should get access to something from the book, unless care is taken to make sure that the events of the three storylines up to that point are considered to be part of the canonical past. That would be the only acceptable reason to limit it to characters of Season 4 and beyond. Otherwise, it breaks immersion to believe that the new content races and classes existed during TOD/EE/ROD, but didn't decide to start adventuring until Season 4 because reasons. If the SCAG material does get added to previous SO's, I hope that all characters of the affected SO's get an opportunity to rebuild within limits regardless of character level. Something along the lines of only being able to change subrace, subclass, or spells. You wouldn't be able to change from a dwarf to an elf or a wizard to a cleric, but you could change from High Elf to Eladrin or from Assassin to Swashbuckler. Things like class levels and starting equipment would remain the same. With the same minimalist approach that was taken with mandatory post-errata rebuilds, I think an optional rebuild when things are added to an existing SO would allow older characters to avoid forced retirement because the player wants to play with the new content.
I wouldn't expect new material to be added to older Story Origins. It is more likely that we would start to retire older material at some point.
Skerrit wrote:
A few higher ups have indicated that it's highly unlikely that the Sword Coast Sourcebook (and no offense but SCAG locally is a defamatory word so i wont be using that) will be making its way into Season 3. While there is no previous precedent here, The players guide has never been modified like that mid season before. I would expect the release of the SCS would mean that the Season 4 players guide will benefit from that. Also remember the leeway is given with level 1-4 characters who can rebuilt within limits.
And personally I dont want the players guide to be modified mid season. Take the time to say 'No we wont be allowing Fey'ri but people can play Star Gnomes'.
As Ive stated before I more excited by setting information (or fluff as it was called once) then Crunch (mechanics). I do not want to see AL turn into Living FR with the 'Heres a heap of races with no reason to be in the FR. Have fun!'.
EDIT: SCAG Is also Heroin. (That I didnt know)
Tyranthraxus wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
My store's tables have kinda split themselves up to where my table is more action-oriented, and the other DM's table is the RP-heavy table. Because of that, I haven't had to worry too much about lore knowledge. However, my store's program is continuing to grow beyond my initial expectations, which means that my table may not always be full of people who just want the action. Therefore, I will have to put this book to good use to step my game up. Until the day comes where I can put away the DM hat and just be store organizer/player, I'm gonna need setting books like this to increase my proficiency in History.
You could always use the 3.0 FR Book as your base. Its quite a good setting tome and the developers have said in the past they are going back to the 3.0 feel of the realms. Im not sure if its available at dndclassics but it would be worth a look. If a 5e FRCS ever comes out Ill grab that, but I honestly think the 3e or even 2e versions are great for AL. 2e as it was pre time of troubles and 3e as it was just after (and if you look at the Gods list most of the time of troubles gods are back anyway)
My local store we have one table mine. Im also the LC for my area. It feels like a bit of a slog sometimes because Ill have some full tables for gamesdays and then barely hitting 3 players for Expeditions , player numbers are very unpredictable.
(I think the person to gamer Ratio in America is certainly much much higher than in Australia).
Yup. I'm a noob. All of that Times of Trouble stuff went over my head. I'd rather not start out with a previous version campaign setting book as I know I'll get lost trying to figure out how to apply it to 5e FR. Like you, I skipped over 4e because of a disdain for the WoW-based design. Therefore, I'd rather start fresh with the current edition stuff, and then reference previous edition sources as necessary.
The less I look at old stuff, the less likely I'll become distracted by any crunch contained within. I'm still a player at heart, so player options still intrigue me more than fluff. By sticking with the SC book to start, at least the crunch will be that which I can actually play with at some point. Being a DM with ADD is an uphill struggle when it comes to prep time.
ZHDarkstar wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
SteveMND wrote:
The thing is though the Sword Coast Sourcebook wont have a detailed overview on the realms. The Sword Coast is just one part of the Realms and if you are running Expeditions mostly its setting information content for that area is going to be light at best. AS its coming from the same people who made the Rage of Demons Module it may indeed just cover the parts of the Sword Coast that their module is using.
(Incidentily, is it available for preorder yet? Ive been struggling to find that out)
The Guide to the Realms is a very useful product! I also recommend it.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Thanks. Hopefully Mr Schley got the cartography stuff for this sourcebook!
Tyranthraxus wrote:
ZhDarkstar: With any luck you might get a Realms Junkie on your table one day. They are getting less and less common nowadays, but sometimes you get one or 2 (generally 1) who knows far more than the dm about the realms and isnt afraid to share that information.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Bribing dms rarely works. Look at the conventions. They go all out to induce dms. 'Free' rooms, swag, 'free' entry. The best dms are players who actually want to become dms because of 'X'. We cant really define X (although we love to try).
I was joking about the bribery. All of my DMs volunteered to do so. I actually withhold the DM cert until after their second session running a table to make sure that they're not trying to do it just for the reward cert. But we're getting off-topic.
I wonder what other UA playtest material is making its debut in this book. Since Swashbucklers are coming, perhaps the Stormborn Sorc will be joining it? It'd be a nice change, as all of the Sorcs in my group only play Draconic. Wild Mage is probably the least AL-compatible subclass, so I'd gladly welcome a new Sorc subclass or two. It'd also mix things up if every Sorc at my group didn't think "If I'm a Draconic Sorc, I might as well be Dragonborn too..." That's the main reason I'm looking forward to new player options. I grow weary of the homogenization where almost every person of class X is playing as race Y.
ZHDarkstar wrote:
If I had to guess which 3 weren't getting anything, I'd say Cleric, Druid, and Warlock. All three of those classes have the most subclasses available. Each Land Circle can be viewed as a subclass, and the Warlock's dual subclass system (patron/pact) yields 9 different types of Warlock.
I am interested to see what type of Monk stuff we get. I'd like to see the return of either Sacred Fist or Enlightened Fist. Having a Sacred Fist would let me create characters that play like the Monk in the original Shining Force games, a secondary healer who punches you in the face for a good chunk of damage. Sacred Fists would have the same casting structure as the Enlightened Fist I describe below, but with 6th/11th/17th level features that are more support-oriented and Cleric spells. Perhaps the ability to Dash or Disengage as a bonus action with no ki cost when casting a spell that restores hit points or removes conditions, or a modified (aka shieldless) version of the Protection FS that costs 1 ki to perform. The 17th level ability could be like the UA Favored Soul's 18th level ability, granting hit points to self when casting restorative spells on others.
Enlightened Fist is needed as the Element Monk just doesn't do it for me as the caster monk. It wouldn't be that hard to pull off, as you would simply need to rework the Eldritch Knight abilities into the Element Monk's casting mechanics. I'd limit the level of spells to 4th level, have cantrips cost 1 ki, and remove the Weapon Bond and Arcane Surge EK abilities. Everything else from EK would port over cleanly. War Magic and Improved War Magic would come online one level earlier, at 6th and 17th level respectively; while Eldritch Strike would be delayed by one to 11th level. Spells and cantrips known would remain the same, just needing a table column listing the highest level spell that can be learned; and throw in a reminder that Wisdom is the casting stat. Bring back Arcane Strike as a feat with text to support both normal spell slots and ki point costs, and you're all set.
I personally like to see something 'new'. or if not new Raid the old 2e library for subclass ideas.