This was posted 8 minutes ago to the AL Local coordinator's Facebook page.
Robert Adducci wrote:
I'm liking it so far.
Gonna need to do a little prep work for it.
A couple of questions about wingwear (p.49). This is an uncommon wonderous items worn by a common Wilderness encounter .
- Are these items recoverable as a result of an encounter as 'monster treasure'? If so, I assume it counts toward a PCs permanent magic item total.
- How does it work with armor? The Feathergale Knights wear scale and 'have access' to wingwear. Can both be worn at the same time? Are there any armor or clothing restrictions with wingwear?
Primarchx wrote:
Also, since they are "clothing", unless the combat was ended peacefully and the enemies stripped of their items, I'd say they are fragile and broke when the creature wearing them went down. It's a cheap way to handle it, but it's been done before and it does work as a way to deter the PCs from acquiring them. On the other hand, it could influence how the PCs handle future encounters with those creatures. If they really want to obtain these things, then they might try stealth tactics and subdue the enemies in order to take their functioning gear.
Kalani wrote:
@Ainulindalion: Please try to keep your comments spoiler free, or list all spoilers in the [.spoiler] [/spoiler] tag. Nobody has played this adventure yet (outside of playtesting or the cons)..... don't spoil anything for them please 
Ainulindalion wrote:
Well depending on how far away the "Spires" are, your downtime days are used to recharge it going back and forth (assuming its within the downtime days your earned for the adventure). That would be how it would potentialy work in AL terms i belive. This is all assuming you can safely return to the recharge spots if they still exist.
And also assuming nothing happens to said location during the adventure (which has yet to be seen).
I'm slightly offended by the fact that I get called on a potential 'spoiler' yet the person who originally brought up the topic isn't. But that's neither here nor there.
Beyond that, it was my understanding that Expeditions (and to a slightly lesser extent AL in general), assumed that you are returned to full resources between adventures, even without the expenditure of downtime or other resources. The magic item is question is a rechargeable item, but not a consumable. Therefore, unless the ability to recharge it is specifically denied (as locations don't simply vanish because you're not playing the adventure they happen to feature in), it should recharge as a part of returning you to your full resources.
The functional difference between 'sit at location Y for $time_period to regain X charges' and 'wait until $time_period/$time to regain X charges' when both happen off-screen between adventures, I would argue is non-existant. I could be wrong. It'd not be the first time.
We are unlikely to change each other's minds, though. This is the Internet.
No, AL does not assume a full reset of your character's condition between adventures. If your character ends an adventure module with a debilitating condition, you are assumed to either spend downtime days *attempting* to alleviate it or you continue to have this condition going forward into the next adventure module. All debiliating conditions which aren't cured during an adventure or with downtime days after an adventure *must* be noted on your log sheet.
Granted, this is all on the honor system and it's certainly possible for someone to "forget" to write on their sheet that they had contracted some disease or lost a limb.
It should be noted that a charged item is not the same as a consumable item -- see the Wand of Magic Missiles in the DM Basic Rules for an example.
If a permanent, charged item becomes destroyed or otherwise unusable, it still counts against your total of permanent magic items, as per the FAQ on Magic Items at dndadventurersleague.org.
Based on the description here (I haven't yet seen the module), I'd rule that wingwear is a permanent magic item which would count against a character's total of permanent magic items. Using all the charges would not cause the item to be removed from the character's log, and it is up to the DM at the table whether the item could be recharged prior to or following the adventure run at that table (as it requires access to an adventure location that might not be accessible between the character's other adventures).
--
Pauper
Ainulindalion wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Undrhil wrote:
Primarchx wrote:
BourneFelas wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
So there aren't any specific rules related to the recharge of any magic items other than what the items themselves say.
If a DM assumes magic item charges to be equivalent to HP, HD, spell slots, etc, w.r.t. being full at the beginning of an adventure, which you agree most DM's do, then the stated requirements for recharging the magic item or resource must have occurred. Other than it's a new condition, I don't see how, w.r.t. the rules, the condition on wingwear is any different - in terms of game meta-rules.
By the lack of specific meta-rules, there is no reason why a DM can't allow it, and it fact, should (logically) if they allow other magic items to recharge without expending resources to meet the requirements for time passage. The text of the requirement itself isn't currently a matter under debate, it's whether or not it falls under the current meta-rules as those rules currently exist.
The rules of reality (or in-game reality) are an entirely different matter.
The difference between wing wear and other items however is that other items will eventually charge themselves to full (given enough time). No matter how much time passes, wing wear will not recharge unless it's conditions are met.
There is no disputing this fact. As such u cannot simply rule it works the same way as other items.
It won't charge in a day
A week, a month, or a year
Wingwear doesn't function
Like other recharging gear
General rules for magic items do not apply to magic items with specific rules for how they recharge. Specific trumps general as Kalani said.
I think the issue here is whether or not downtime is required for travel between mods.
Kalani wrote:
We're arguing two entirely different points.
Item 1: Event A occurs when Condition X is met.
Item 2: Event A occurs when Condition Y is met.
You're arguing there is an in-world difference between Condition X and Condition Y to fulfill requirement A. This is very true.
I'm arguing that there is no difference with regards to Condition X and Condition Y in the statement "The conditions for A to occur are assumed to have been met at the beginning of a new module."
Your argument that Condition Y is so different from Condition X that it renders the statement "The conditions for A to occur are assumed to have been met at the beginning of a new module." null and void is probably even true - but it hasn't been rendered null and void yet because the rulings haven't changed. Yet.
So any DM which concludes Event A is 'magic items with charges are recharged' under the statement "The conditions for A to occur are assumed to have been met at the beginning of a new module." (which is the current, generalized interpretation of the rule that resources are returned to full at the beginning of a new module), should also conclude that both Conditions X and Y are met - without respect to the text of Condition X and Condition Y - because there is no rule saying Condition X and Condition Y are not equally capable of being met.
Do I think official guidance is needed with respect to the difference between Condition X and Condition Y? Almost certainly. Does such official guidance exist? Absolutely not at this time.
As a DM, you are perfectly within rights to say that any character who did not end their previous module with 1/2 or more of their HD doesn't have them all back without spending at least one downtime days... EXCEPT THAT YOU AREN'T, by the rule quoted earlier. Any renewable resource that would normally only require time to restore does not currently require time to restore between one module and the next. Travel to a location and sitting there for an hour and coming back only requires time. Waiting until sufficient sunrises have passed to recharge your magic staff only requires time. There is no difference.
Ainulindalion wrote:
As a DM I know there are specific limitations to wingwear as spelled out in the doc. That was why I asked whether it was 1) obtainable as treasure via recovering monster gear in an encounter and 2) whether that device would then count as a permanent magic item. Part 2 seems easy to answer until you bring up the special recharge requirement.
I didn't want to go into specifics on that method but was planning, as a DM, to make sure characters interested in them know of the special conditions surrounding them. I have no intentions of having them be recharged in any other way than what is specified in Princes of the Apocalypse, but players need to know that up front. They also need to know that it would count as a permanent magic item for their character, even if it ran out of charges and AL-appropriate mechanics for recharging it aren't available.
To me it should be an informed, player choice. For some the issues may be trivial while others won't abide them.
CahPahkah wrote:
Ainulindalion wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
All the cert says is "Reference the adventure for this item's description" and nothing about charges, like the Keightom's Ointment cert that I'm also looking at right now.
I was just looking at the Certificate package for PoA.
There are 4 kits. Each kit contains 5 wingwear certificates (20 total). They most definately count as permanent items.
Certificate text (apologies about formatting. Texting from phone)
Wingwear
Princes of the Apocalypse
Reference the adventure for this item's description.
(Princes of the Apocalypse)
Wondrous item, common
Each cert has a trade log.
I'm lovin' the pic ... and wondering if the scale is similar to the Xixecal in 3.0e Epic ?
As in: are these birds Rocs, like those "birds" are ancient white dragons.
Also the pic seems more like a Good version of the Black Rock Triskelion.
Details please ?!
CahPahkah wrote:
I asked the admins about this item.
Ainulindalion wrote:
If Robert's ruling is that there is no access to an Elemental Air Node in between adventures (which he implies but doesn't directly state), then, no, there's no way to charge them.
That's fine by me. I've always argued that my free auto-recharge relied on access to an EAN, and if the campaign ruling is that there isn't one, then there isn't one.
I'm not sure how exactly you justify that in the FR setting and the AL, but he doesn't need to justify it, being as he's Robert Adducci. Discussion closed.
Also, with regards to 'allowed/forbidden', 'up to the DM' is 'expressly allowed or forbidden', just at a local level. Anyway, probably don't need to start that argument. (Apparently again?)
Here is the most recent update on the issue. I know the debate has been resolved, but I figured it best to keep you guys in the loop
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Especially in light of the fact that wingwear has 6 copies of the certificate per certificate kit (24 total as the mailout comes with 4 kits). That, and the fact that wingwear is excedingly common in the adventure - to the point where even random encounters have creatures wearing them.
The problem isn't finding a suit of wingwear. The problem is finding one that the badguy's haven't been using all battle.
Now that I think about it more, I think allowing permanent magic item removal at a total loss from the Adventure Log is probably the best course of action. It would replace a portion of the current all-or-nothing magic item metagame with a more palatable version that results in less magic items being left behind because no one at the table wants to increase their TPMI count and encourages off-build magic item experimentation.
ZHDarkstar wrote:
Since the biggest obstacle to updating a living document like the ALPG is bureacracy, I hope that the upcoming FAQs can serve as official documents that can supercede the ALPG. Having a centralized repository that can be updated as needed would be a valuable asset to the entire community while the AL is still in its infancy. A little investment in organizational infrastructure now would pay off dividends by preventing S2 molehills from becoming mountains by S5. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Well, that was fun, wasn't it!
Here's my next question about the pdf. As a caveat, I've run Expeditions before but have only just gotten started with DM'ing Encounters.
* How do you handle treasure for Wilderness/River Threats, ie random encounters?
Since the DMG isn't included as allowed rules, I take it that I can't use treasure tables even for mundane treasure. In my opinion, monsters SHOULD have treasure or it isn't D&D. Are there any guidelines to use or do I just wing it? Or are they all just dead broke?
Thanks!
They are broke
Awww, man, that's rough! Oh well. Thanks, Skerrit!
Ainulindalion wrote:
Pauper wrote:
Pauper wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
ZHDarkstar wrote:
So where can I get this? I don't actually know.
Rains wrote: