A) There is no Players Companion
B) If you are referring to Appendix A: Its been posted already in Dragon + (you can subscribe to this.. go check it out). Its essentially a table you can get some new bonds from for your character and some backgrounds. Thats it. Its actually been out for a week or more now.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Apologies, I dont know how to make the font size smaller when cutting and pasting from Twitter straight into here. I certainly didnt want to make it seem like I was yelling.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Yes, I originally did post that but edited the post several times trying to reduce the font size, in the end I gave up.
Suffice to say, there is no Players Companion. THe Sword Coast Adventurers Guide ( I dislike the acronym) is essentially the 'guide' for Rage of Demons.
As has been explained in other threads is unlikely to be usuable for Season 3 of AL.
To be honest the new Expeditions have me far more excited than ROD.
Tyranthraxus wrote:
Yeah, that is all that is in the Dragon+ preview. I really hope that Appendix A is not just the one page, because that would be very disappointing. Of course, the Tyranny of Dragons books had crap for players too, just two new backgrounds, I think, and nothing else.
So if all there is are two new backgrounds and a table of alternate bonds, why would anyone at all use Rage of Demons as their story origin when EE has so much more to offer? It is a good thing that it is not a requirement for all new characters made during the 3rd season to take the RoD story origin. I just hope that DMs out there are not misrepresenting this option. I will be making sure that local players know their options on best story origin to use.
Enevhar_Aldarion wrote:
imaginaryfriend wrote:
My goal is to actually HAVE my players read the Seasonal Players guides. So far its vey hit and miss .
Its like 'that exists'?
AndrewJO wrote:
Hes certainly correct. If you are going to play a Spellcaster (who isnt a Cleric) you would for spell choice definetly be picking up the EE story origin. Its not always possible to rely on other players in your group being Wizards AND having the EE spells in their spellbook or finding a spellbook in game that provides EE spells. Im building a Cleric for Season 3 (which I may or may not get to play and have picked the ROD story origin). However If I was building a Wizard for the new season, I would of picked the EE Story Origin.
(I also generally normally play Humans, so race choices dont mean much here)
No intention of being neiner-neiner, told you so in any way. It's been a bit of a pain trying to figure out how to get this account reactivated though.
1.) No Player companion like the Elemental Evil one. It's mentioned on the well-hidden Out of the Abyss FAQ on this website. They should make it less well hidden, i found it googling on accident.
2.) Dragon+ has appendix A also Merric B of enworld has it on his blog in a PC friendly PDF. It has a few alternate backgrounds features.. The first is an underground version of the Outlander background. It's essentially "Cant get lost underground, can provide food for up to five people underground." It is pretty much an exact mirror of the Earthspur Miner Mullmaster background, allthough the Mulmaster one is "technically" a little bit better because that feature allows you to "not get lost" if you have a map, as well as traveling the terrain, where as the one in appendix A is only if you've travelled the terrain.
The other alternate background feature I dont remember that well, but it was not very great. I think it more or less gave you familliarity with underdark races as if you've mingled with them before in some limited capacity. I tried to find the link on Merrik's page but it appears to be gone.
Now, I was under the -assumption- we would get the duregar in this book or maybe even a re-printing of deep gnomes. The appendix A on merrik's page and dragon+ doesnt seem to elude to getting any new races at all. It is possible that that preview is only one page of the appendix, but I doubt it. I think we may see both races in the Sword Coast book but that book isn't out till Novemeber and it's not sounding like it will be approved for this season of play. My advise is make a character with the season 2 rules so you have access to Genasi, Goliath, Deep Gnomes, the elemental spells and the cool Mulmaster Background and Bonds. You wont be the only person to do so. The bonds for Out of the Abyss were more or less limited to use with that particular adventure, connecting you to what seems like very particular NPCs.
Another bizzare thing is we have a preview of the monsters in the adventure listed in another appendix by CR. None of the Demon Lords are in the appendix but clearly they are being stated, ala the Zuggtomy, Juiblex and Orcus previews. In Princes of the Apoc' the monsters and elemental princes were all in the same CR list. It's possible the Duregar are in another appendix. Possible, but unlikely. There are quite a few duregar bad guys in the monster appendix though. So maybe?
Sorry I could not help more, but I believe the early access stores sell Out of The Abyss in one or two days. I suppose that will answer some questions, and I would not be surprised if someone gets a hold of the book in the next 24 hours and leaks all the details online.
I dont expect a lot of people to make characters with season 3 origins, season 2 is just much better, and the advantage of season 1 is more or less gone, which was starting with maximum gold and buying your starting gear peicemeal. When Season 4 rolls around I bet it's more popular than the previous three because it will likely include everything from the sword coast book.
Yeah same here with my store and MTG. And our store has a turn out of 35-40ish for AL games. They are bottom from the top rank of the store system from my understanding due to the huge weekly magic turnout and yet we dont get OOtA early. Also an hour and a half from Seattle!
One thing Id like to point out that the early release stores are also Mainland North American Ones. My local store is considered a 'Premier' store but is located in Australia and Im sure there are similar stores in the UK and elsewhere. Its likely not for sale here until late September.
Mirtek : We are really no different. Im the only encounters dm (and also the LC) at my local store. We have more than enough for one table but not enough for 2. Im not too concerned. We have had other tables start as AL, then decide to go somewhere that is not AL at all thus making us lose those people as AL players. To be honest I may not even run ROD as my group is really only just up to Feathergale spire.
We have a huge navy base next to our store so they do a lot of businuess as well. The AL gets part time players in the form of sailors in port for a few months on an aircraft carrier so would'nt it be nice if they could pick up the new release...you know...when it's a new release, especially when store like this have the advantage of having things on the shelf instead of eh, say...waiting on amazon? ;)
AndrewJO wrote:
Wait, so EE races and spells aren't legal outside of S2? That seems...stupid. I'm continuing my L3 cleric from S2, so it doesn't really effect me, but eventually assume I will level out at 5 for a while and need a new character. I'm not allowed to use previous content?
Kahless wrote:
Kahless wrote:
Only season 2 can use the elemental evil companion. The pdf with goliaths, deep gnomes, elemental spells...
You can make a season 3 character with season 2 rules, but they cant use the season 3 hillsfar background or OOtA apendix A
Or the former gold dragon background from season 1 ;)
Yes and no. When creating a new character - you can choose any of the three story origins for that character. You are limited to the rules sources listed for your chosen story origin. The RoD story origin is on P3 of the Players Guide while the ToD and EE story origins are in the Appendix at the back.
- All seasons (to date): Phb, Players Basic Rules, MM Appendix A (beasts)
- Tyranny of Dragons (only): Hoard of the Dragon Queen Appendix A
- Elemental Evil (only): EE Players Companion, Princes of the Apocalypse Appendix A, Mulmaster Backgrounds (Website)
- Rage of Demons (only): Out of the Abyss Appendix A, Hillsfar Backgrounds (Website)
- Mulmaster (only): These features are available to all characters but only available when playing S2 Expeditions - Brotherhood of Cloaks; Rank 3 faction benefits in Mulmaster
- Hillsfar (only): rank 3 faction benefits in Hillsfar.
You can make a character with season 2 rules and take a season 3 hillsfar background/bond?
Mirtek wrote:
Granville7482 wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Those comments are from an LC (like myself). I too believed the same initially, however several comments from the RCs and admins have left me uncertain whether the Mulmaster/Hillsfar backgrounds are story origin specific or are open to every character. The impression I have been given it is the latter, and while I have tried to get clarifcation on this several times but I keep getting conflicting messages.
I would understand if you can't. It at least leaves some exclusivity to season 3 characters as they don't have a lot to begin with.
AndrewJO wrote:
Just for clarity (so that its clear that older Story Origins are legal choices and yes you can make a character using those origins and play that character in any season's adventure), the Story Origins from previous seasons are also listed towards the end of Part Three of the ALPG.
AndrewJO wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
The Mulmaster backgrounds are exclusive to the EE story origin. Logic dictates that the same holds true for the Hillsfar backgrounds (although this is not explicitly stated anywhere).
Backgrounds are a weird thing. Technically, no, you can't since its an article specific to the season, but since you can create any background you like on your own, there's really nothing to stop you from making anything that makes you happy with whichever Story Origin you choose.
Skerrit wrote:
So zero reason to make your character with the season 3 options? You can recreate the backgrounds and bonds in appendix A too.
I suppose you have the Assimar and spider mount certs from gencon. 
You cannot 100% reproduce these backgrounds but you can come very close.
Custom background creation:
- Choose a feature from a background in your allowed rules
- Choose starting gear from a background in your allowed rules
- Two skills ofchoice
- Two languages; two tools; or one ofeach
- Modest lifestyle
All of of the custom backgrounds on the website have features which are variants of those in the PHB.
Their starting gear is unique however but can easily be duplicated by choosing a similar starting package and then buying/selling the items which are different.
You cannot recreate background features that aren't found in the PHB such as the dragon scholar or cult infiltrator features from HotDQ. The same holds true for the background features in OotA as they are not variants of those in the PHb
As far as bonds go - you are not limited to those in the PHB or other sources. You can make up your own custom bonds, flaws, traits from scratch. Just be mindful not to create anything which forces you to be disruptive
For example: don't create a flaw which says you kill elves on sight (disruptive). Instead create a flaw which says you are suspicious of elves and believe they harbour sinister motives.
Kalani wrote:
No. The variants are slightly different features. The only way to take these variants, is to be of the correct story origin. You can however, create a close approximation by taking the non-variant feature from the PHB.
For example:
Wagonmaster Feature (Caravan Specialist BG)
- You are used to being in charge of the operation and your reputation for reliability has you on a short list when the job is critical. Experience has taught you to rely on your gut. Others recognize this and look to you for direction when a situation gets serious. You are able to identify the most defensible locations for camping. If you are part of a caravan outfit, you are able to attrack two additional worksers that are loyal to you based on your reputation. You have an excellent memory for maps and geography and can always determine your cardinal directions while travelling.
You cannot recreate this benefit exactly, however you can approximate it by taking either the Retainers feature (Noble Background), or by taking the Wanderer feature (Outlander Background) and then hiring two (un)skilled hirlings (PHB services).
Highborn Feature (Mulmaster Aristocrat BG)
- Mulmaster is run by and for its aristocracy. Every other class of citizen in the city defers to you, and even the priesthood, Soldiery, Hawks, and Cloaks treat you with deference. Other aristocrafts and nobles accept you in their circles and likely know of you. Your connections can get you the ear of a Zor or Zora under the right circumstances.
While you cannot recreate this benefit, you can approximate it by taking the Position of Privilege feature (Noble Background). Unlike the Highborn background however, characters with Position of Privilege are not given special treatment by the Hawks, Cloaks, etc, although they enjoy most of the other benefits (treated as equals by nobles; able to secure an audience with the local ruler - aka Zora or Zor, etc). OTOH, the Highborn feature only offers characters a benefit in Mulmaster. Outside of that corrupt city, nobles would still treat them with respect but they would be afforded no special treatment.
Other BGs have features which are just reflavored versions of existing features. The Deep Miner feature is almost identical to the Wanderer feature, while the Shelter of the Elven Clergy feature (Cormanthor Refugee) is just a reflavored variant of the Shelter the Faithful (Acolyte) background - the only difference being that it is the Elves of Elventree that offer you shelter instead of clergy of your faith.
You could also gain the full benefit of the Secret Identity feature (Secret Identity BG) simply by taking the Charlatan feature and making your cover identity explain your presence in Hillsfar (eg. a halfling saying they are a child or suffering from a deformity or some such which stunted their growth).
While the feature options presented in the OotA App A don't say they are variants of PHB background features, they very clearly are, unlike the ones from HotDQ. At least the ones presented in the preview.
Kalani wrote:
AndrewJO wrote:
I guess I just find it hard to understand why they're limiting new content. I've even bought the EE book, spent the money for it. If I wanted a S3 background, why can't I use EE spells? Are these somehow "secret" or "not known"? And the svirfneblin would be perfect for the Underdark campaign.
You make a character with Season 2 rules, problem fixed. You're not missing much by opting out of season 3 options when most of them can be replicated on a season 2 character if need be.
I know. It just seems the principle of the thing! LOL
Mirtek wrote:
Kahless wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
Heh if i'm not mistaken you could playwarforged in LFR with some kind of approval or cert equivalent.
Granville7482 wrote:
Skerrit wrote:
There is however, the possibility of unintended interactions between EE and SCG or a future sourcebook. The story origin mechanic is designed to be future proofed. If history has taught us anything, its that players don't like options to be removed after the fact.... While it seems ridiculous now (because of the lack of options), which is more desirable..... Getting used to the idea of story origins being limited to X, Y, and Z now - or have all options available now, and have them become restricted to X, Y, and Z two or three years down the track - invalidating a large number of characters in the process and/or requiring all players to create new characters (as their old characters would not be legal under the new rules).
Kalani wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
Alternate suggestion:
The basic rule for determining what is or is not allowed for a given story origin includes the following material:
The core books (PHB, MM beasts, the other stuff from those that has been allowed in all origins so far)
The origin's seasonal backgrounds and minor options (the sort of things we've seen in Rage of Demons and Tyranny of Dragons, with neat thematic backgrounds and fun bonds and such)
The most recent substantial supplement (currently the Elemental Evil spells and races, to be replaced with SCAG when that becomes legal)
This keeps the basic goal of the story origin system intact, while avoiding the weirdness we're currently looking at where a fairly hefty list of spells isn't available to anyone who wants to take a background that's designed for the new adventures.
Mirtek wrote:
CahPahkah wrote:
Kalani wrote:
TiaNadiezja wrote:
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Enevhar_Aldarion wrote:
RCanine wrote:
I expect that Sword Coast Guidebook to have at least 1 or 2 broken things in it, no need for the EEPG aded in to break stuff. (Though it's cool they shelved a book if it was full of problems.) I understand why the preventons are put into place as badly tested spell + badley tested spell = something nutty like damage immune character.
Sence you can handpick things to ban like birdmen, why not handpick a few things to allow, like deep gnomes.
I for one will find myself a bit annoyed you have to go back to season 2 to play Goliaths. They are unlikely to see any coverage in the sword coast book, or any other material later to come out, but eh, I suppose they are supposed to be rare among the realms.
Coredump00 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Not true. The underdark XP feature is a mix of the sage feature (research) and the outlander (wanderer) feature. You can simulate this feature by taking either of the above (depending on which part of the feature you value more).
Yes - it is impossible to 100% duplicate, but you can gain the primary feature from wanderer or the secondary feature from research.
RCanine wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
RCanine wrote:
SteveMND wrote:
SteveMND wrote:
The separation of story origins has been in place since the beginning, whether we like it or not. Maybe some people should refresh their memories and go back seven or eight months on the forums and look at all the threads complaining about not being able to take their low level ToD characters and rebuild them to include EE story origin options. And Tod had even less character options than RoD does. Admins have said that this is a standard rule that WotC decided back when AL started with season one: no combining of story origin options.
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Enevhar_Aldarion wrote:
Why do we have story origins anyway? They're not even on the character sheet. They don't seem to even impact anything other than boxing out things you can't use. I just made a dragonborn draconic bloodline sorcerer for when my tempest cleric hits level 5 and might not have anything to play for a while. He's straight out of PHB. No one has any idea if it's season 1, 2, or 3...unless I start taking EE spells. So I kind of don't see the point to the restrictions.
And the restrictions make no sense. So I can't make a svirfneblin druid throwing around earth powers with a S3 origin even though there's a whole earth druid circle of NPCs running around in OotA? But no, in an underdark campaign, deep gnomes with earth powers, you know, which they basically all tend to have, are illegal if I want to use any of the backgrounds/bonds in Appendix A (none of which provide a huge mechanical benefit).
Kahless wrote:
Kahless wrote:
That is correct as players can make bonds/flaws/traits of their own design (regardless of story origin). I consider the bonds from all sources as inspiration only. You aren't limited to the ones in the PHB, OotA, or website. I do however, recommend using them as a guide for what is acceptable (as it is easy to make disruptive traits/flaws otherwise)
We continue to hear your comments and take them under advisement as we make suggestions to WOTC about how things might be changed in the future. At the moment I have no new information to share.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
RCanine wrote:
Pauper wrote:
The admins have stated that SCA will not be legal for Season 3. Skerrit in particular has made this abundantly clear numerous times in this forum and on FB. There is a very remote possibility that WotC may rule otherwise upon release, however since WotC (not the admins) are the ones who write the PG and since they failed to include SCA in the RoD story origin - that possibility is extremely remote.
Mechincally suboptimal is perfectly fine, until someone gets killed because of it. Like the guy that always wants to try to talk things out so he runs out in the open and ruins the parties ambush...It's pretty important that everyone tries to work together to find a happy medium....playing a diviner that drops fireballs on top of the party isn't kosher. The 10 strength, 9 dex, 15 charisma fighter that likes to cook is pretty stupid too....even if it is extremely fun for you to troll the party and be useless most of the time. It's an extreme example, but I HAVE sat down with players that did exactly this sort of thing. The roll-player that never wants to talk or explore and is only interested at swinging his sword and looting corpses is more frequent and is also annoying. But since most people play their characters like murder hobos they don't stand out as much.
Byakugan01 wrote:
I have to agree with Coredump on this. Mechanically suboptimal means that you have not chosen the best possible combination of elements when creating, leveling, or playing your character. It doesn't mean creating a deliberately gimped character, or being suicidal or disruptive.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Playing a suboptimal race/class combination - such as a dwarf wizard.
- Choosing suboptimal weapons/armor - such as a warpick or splint, even if you can afford better options.
- Choosing one or more suboptimal feats, spells, ABIs, maneuvers, fighting styles, etc.
- Rounded ability scores with few/no dump stats. You would still place one of your better scores in your primary statistic however, but may never increase it beyond +3 modifier.
- Choosing to keep a 16 primary stat as you advance (instead of bumping it to 18 or 20).
- Wielding a versatile weapon two handed instead of using a heavy weapon (polearm, great sword/axe, lance) or a shield.
- Playing a spellcaster who will never get more than 5th level spells but is still viable (EK/Wizard, Theurge, Bard/Sorc/Lock combinations, etc).
- Playing a four winds monk because you like Avatar.
One of my S2 characters is suboptimal for flavor reasons (suboptimal choices in bold)
- I am playing a samurai (Noble Knight Fighter) who wields a naginata (glaive), or a silver katana (longsword). I have a silver wakizashi (scimitar), a yumi (longbow), and a yari (spear) as backup weapons.
- I do not use a shield when wielding my longsword. Instead, I wield it two-handed (d10).
- I wear splint armor which I reflavor as o-yoroi (great armor). I plan on playing the S1 expedition which grants +1 splint armor for the same reason - even though plate is mechanically superior (due to the MI rules).
- I am a human Strength fighter with the following stats: 16 Str (+1 racial), 14 Dex (+1 racial), 14 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha.
- I am a battlemaster with the following maneuvers: menacing attack, riposte, feinting attack. I plan on learning evasive footwork, disarming attack and tripping attack.
- I plan on obtaining dawnbringer, despite being STR based. If I gain the weapon, I will use it as my secondary weapon (favoring the naginata). I would use it as my primary choice against drow, undead, creatures resistant to nonmagical weapons, or high AC opponents. Otherwise, I will leave it sheathed.
- If I obtain dawnbringer, I plan on taking defensive duelist at 8th level.
- I am trained in diplomacy, insight, athletics, animal handling and history
- I plan on taking mounted combat as a feat as samurai are known for being mounted archers.
- I have the defensive fighting style, although strongly considered taking archery instead.
- I do not plan on maxing STR until 12th level or later (I might boost it to 18 at 6th however, or I might take mounted combat instead).
My character is just a notch below optimal in several areas - but can still more than pull her weight in combat despite not having chosen the 100% most mechanically optimized choices.
Kalani wrote:
The fact that I am wielding a longsword 2H instead of using a shield or a heavy weapon is suboptimal. There are two better choices I could be making (shield, greatsword/axe). Still fits the character concept.
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
RCanine wrote:
What's Tomb of Khaem?
I don't see that on the AL site and some light googling came up with nothing.
It is one of the sidequests in OotA..... I should have probably put spoilers on it (and will do so in hindsight).
It seems 'odd' to run just one small side quest out of an entire episode as a stand alone adventure. But I guess its one way of getting phat lewt fast.
If that is 'legal', what is stopping folks from running a single encounter of Episode 4 in HotDQ and getting a magical bow? Or just running the one fight in one room in Episode 8 and grabbing Hazirawn?
Coredump00 wrote:
True. I won't dispute the fact that this was cherry picking - but given the fact that I will not get a chance to play the full adventure, as I will be the one DMing it (as well as Princes), my table thought it was fair (esp. since we have been a consistant table since season 1)
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Leaving aside the 'cherry picking' or 'metagamers seppuku' (aweseome visual by the way)..... how granular are we allowed to get when running adventures?
In HotDQ Chap 4 is set up as picking several set encounters out of the 8-10 provided. One of those set encounters takes about 10-20 minutes and can easily lead to a +1 longbow. Is it 'legal' to get a group together and only play that one small encounter out of that entire chapter?
In Chap 8, there is one bad guy with Hazirawn.... is it legal to only play that one fight in that one room?
If those are legal....why can't we only do a small part of an Expedition instead of starting from the beginning?
I always felt it wasn't quite kosher to run just 1 Episode/chapter from the hardback adventures.... but if its okay to just pick out a small part of one chapter.... that seems really open for abuse.
RCanine wrote:
There is no rule as to what you can run when - however the Admins would prefer people to just play it through organically. I agree myself for the most part, but since I won't be able to play the adventure this season - we planned on playing through the four sidequests as a single mega-session, and perhaps part of chapter 2 if we had time - but the DM had to call it after we had completed the first part for personal reasons (which I won't go into out of sensitivity).
I doubt I will get another opportunity to run through any OotA content, but if I do - I would at least like to complete chapter 2 and 3 (the Encounters portion sans chapter 1 as my character is 4th level and would level out too quickly). I don't believe in only running a small portion of an adventure if I can help it. Getting that one taste of the adventure made me want to play more of it with my character.
What I meant about getting that item was that the party felt it was fair I got the item because I will be DMing for season 3 - there was another magic item as well, which someone else got.
Regarding Sidequest Length
We planned on completing all 4 sidequests, after which we would go from there if we still had time (but alas, we had to cut it short). If there is a second session at a later point, we will play it as well (which there seems to be a good chance of as several of the new players have shown interest in continuing a home game).
Based on information in the Encounters PDF, each of the 4 sidequests is about 1 Encounters session long (or the length of a 2hr expedition). It feels faster than that when you play as it is very linear, but it turned out to be around 2hrs when we ran through the sidequest (2 1/2hrs actually).
Regarding Expeditions
As far as Expeditions go - you can't really cherry pick part of an Expedition, as each Expedition is a single discrete unit - larger than a sidequest, but shorter than an Episode. Saying you only want to do part 2 or part 3 of an Expedition makes about as much sense as saying you only want to do the final building in Halls of the Hunting Axe (a sidequest in PotA).
When I run OotA later this season, I will probably end up running either the Encounters portion (DDEN3) or run the latter chapters with my parties PotA characters (which are currently 9th level, and I expect will hit 12th level by the end of the adventure). I will probably opt for the latter, and find a good start-point in the adventure in which higher level (tier 3) characters could organically begin.
Yeah, the closest thing we have to a rule on cherry-picking is that it's explicitly legal. So go ahead and pop into HoDQ for a quick Harizawn if you want.
RCanine wrote:
Cherry-picking should not be a big deal when it comes to DMs who rarely get to play, so long as they are not stealing certed items from normal players. Cherry-picking and fairness mainly comes into play when it is the regular players who find out where the "best" items can be found and proceed to play those Expeditions/adventures/chapters of adventures repeatedly with multiple characters in order to get some kind of edge or to feel like they "win at D&D". But even so, as long as they are not stealing aways certs from other players, then it is still not a big deal, even if it is not fair play.
I don't create lists of where items are found. I just happened to know where it was due to a cursory reading of DDEN3 - esp. the side quests. It pays to be ready to run should I need to start another encounters table or if I have to fill in for another DM.
Also as I said - we planned on running all 4 side quests (the goal was to help get the characters to 5th level for expeditions content). That's what side quests are for - to pad experience.
I plan on running several of the PotA side quests for my Expeditions players (as DM) to help get them to 11th level for DDEX 3-4 for a similar reason (as expeditions is hard to level at this time without using downtime catchup and even with using it at 5th level my Expeditions players are only 9th level after 2 seasons).
In my opinion, cherry picking a tiny part of a larger adventure for the specific purpose of obtaining a desireable magic item is extremely dishonorable, regardless of whether it's legally considered "cheating" by the AL. Cherry picking by someone who "usually DMs" is not a mitigating factor in my opinion. Dishonorable behavior by a community leader is particularly grievious, as it reflects on the entire organization.
And no, I don't play a paladin.
You know - when we planned this session, I obviously goofed up as I did not think through how it might be perceived by others esp. since it was perfectly agreeable to everyone involved and that none of us play at different tables let alone different stores with few exceptions.
Except for the fact that our table is one of 7 running weekly - in many respects it is more like a home play table as it is the same players each week. Chalk it up to bad decision making on my part (we all have moments of that from time to time). I admit - it was a mistake and the more we have discussed it, in hindsight I agree with the flack I have gotten for it.
None of that crossed my mind at the time we were planning it however. We simply wanted to run a home session to pad our XP so that we could run season 3 expeditions content with our L4 characters. We decided to run some side quests and I suggested the side quests from OotA as they have good XP and at least one nice (but not OP) item.
I should also add that our core Expeditions group consists of the same 4-5 players with the occasional drop-in (although it recently expanded to a second table with mostly drop-ins).
I don't want to make this Bash on Kalani day. I don't personally think there's anything wrong with metagaming rewards; Kalani demonstrates exactly why it can be super fun: composing rewards that make an awesome character concept work.
The problem I see is twofold:
- AL staff advising not to metagame rewards, and then doing so themselves
- The rewards structure of the AL being such that certain players have an advantage when it comes to metagaming rewards
Were Kalani to show up at a convention with a character sheet and play the exact same content, odds are she'd be rolling off against six other players—potentially some who can't even use the item. But Kalani's position allows her to organize a table where anyone who would roll against her for the item isn't invited to play.
This is less about anyone doing anything wrong, and more about the weird situations that arise the way that loot is distributed in AL.
Err.... I would never exclude someone from a table. Also, as I have said previously - I foster an environment at my store (and especially at my table) where players (including me) aren't greedy.
9 times in 10 - the party unanimously agrees that X character gets the item (even if they have the most items).
An example being last week in which we had 3 items on the table (high level princes). One player with 2 items took the shield guardian. That player let the legendary go to another character with 4 items uncontested (the whole party agreed, including myself and I only had 3 items). He considered the 3rd item but ended up letting it go to the same player who got the legendary (nobody else wanted the ring).
If I was greedy, I could have jumped on the legendary but we agreed it was best used by the player with 4 items.
The same mentality went into the decision whether I got the sunblade. Other players could have used it - but they figured it fit my character better and they preferred different weapons (eg. Rapier or Greatsword).
We just don't have a cuthroat group. I always remind players that they can contest an item if they choose (in which case they might auto-win or have a roll off) but in 2 seasons - we have only had 3 roll-offs at my table across both Encounters and Expeditions (while the core group is the same, there have been another 10 odd players at the table from time to time but they are more transitory).
Chances are - if I came to a convention - I would probably let the items sit on the table for other players, even if it was the perfect item for my character.
Why? Because I know that for many players - that may be their only chance at gaining a cert (as they might not play at a store which has them).
That, and I get a few magic items each season already. I am happy with how many items I have gained and the rate I have gained them (I have a total of 6 items across all my characters, including a bag of holding DM cert - 3 of which are on my highest level character).
I would just be happy to be at a con and meeting new people. My goal at a con would probably to try and score a convention special cert (eg. Aasimar) or maybe something exclusive from Fai Chen. Even in an Epic I would let the item go to someone else.
Actually - chances are, I would volunteer to DM at the Con (or other duties) and might only get to play a single adventure in a single slot - maybe a premier release of an Expedition DM'd by an RC (so as not to take an Epic slot from someone else).
Kalani wrote:
Pauper wrote:
SteveMND wrote:
Pauper wrote:
I would guess it will be legal for S4 onward.
I can't really see a $50 book just about character options without any adventure attached to just be legal for a single season only. It just will be added in S4 and repeated in each season thereafter.
SteveMND wrote:
From what has been released, it seems more likely that the SCAG is useful for all seasons and is not specific to season 3 only. Regardless, this is all arguing about asumptions and guesses and so there isn't much to do until November when the book actually comes out.
Greg Marks
DnDAL Associate Resource Manager
Pauper wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Welp, I'm not playing any more of my Season 3 characters once they hit lvl 4 then; with the way they set this all up, there's waaaaay too much uncertainty and oddities in the system to risk it. Thanks for the info and speculation tho.