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| #1AvrossApr 04, 2015 9:47:11 | So apparently there are rules in the city of Mulmaster regarding the casting of spells. But they're not laid out in the Players Companion, the AL Players Guide, or in the Expedition modules I've seen so far.
Is there something out there that descrbes what the players are going to get themselves into trouble for casting?
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| #2KalaniApr 04, 2015 9:52:18 | According to the admins, we should learn this when we play the adventures. I have the first 3 adventures downloaded but have yet to read them to see what these restrictions entail. |
| #3BRJNApr 04, 2015 10:30:46 | According to Realmslore, the CIty of Mulmaster requires arcane spellcasters to join the Union. (This is one of those fake unions which serve The Powers That Be, not the members. Its true purpose is to make it easier to keep track of magic-users.) Unspecified penalties for failure to register, or using magic against TPTB's wishes.
Mulmaster is also the site for the chief Temple to Bane in all of Faerun. Needless to say, Tyranny is the normal mode of operation here. IRL examples abound. Anybody trying to emulate Disney's protrayal of Robin Hood, is not likely to survive long in this environment; such a society does not keep functioning for hundreds of years if TPTB are incompetent..
I have no inside information as to how AL will handle this, though.
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| #4QwertyAzertyApr 04, 2015 10:38:31 | I saw that if your a rank 3 Harper you'll have easier time with spellcasting, but what about spellcaster outside of the Harper? we are finishing the remainign 2 adventure from ToD (DDEX1-13 and DDEX1-14) and we shoudl start season 2 in May. I would love to know how those restrictionw ork so I can decide if I want to play a spellcaster or a martial caracter. (what about elemental monk, are those spell too by the sense of Mulmaster law? or since monk do not gain spellcaster level, those are simply effect mimicing spell and for sake of simplicity refer to the similar spell) |
| #5KalaniApr 04, 2015 11:06:56 | The spellcasting restrictions were deliberately kept out of the adventurer's league player's guide, as the intention is for players to learn of these restrictions at the same time their character first encounters them. Ignorance is no excuse for the law and all that, it will be up to the characters to learn the spellcasting laws of Mulmaster in game.
I do not recommend anyone spoil the restrictions here (assuming they are mentioned in DDEX2-1 to DDEX2-4) for this very reason. Players will have to choose whether they want to play a spellcaster before knowing which spells are restricted/forbidden, or knowing the rules spellcasters must operate under. |
| #6AvrossApr 04, 2015 11:23:27 |
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| #7ZHDarkstarApr 04, 2015 18:13:07 | Avross, your reply is part of why we need to have an ALDMG in addition to the ALPG. I feel like the current adventures expect the DMs to have at least a bachelors degree in FR History to run properly. If I had a nickel for every time I didn't know about the lore referenced in an adventure, I'd have enough money to buy all of the necessary reference material.
If the admins are so worried about potential spoilers, stick it in the resource center behind the password wall. I still can't fully comprehend the philosophy of shifting the focus to DM empowerment and efficiency of play, and then justifying disservices to the AL DMs in the name of purity of play. All that the current practices do is foster an environment where DMs have to read through multiple adventures to deduce the mechanics of vaugely referenced restrictions that play enough of a significant role to warrant a rank 3 faction ability to counteract said restrictions, all of which must be done before even being able to run the entry-level Expedition. It's not like the rules text doesn't already exist in some format in an internally-distributed design bible given to the adventure writers.
I get that the admins don't want the players to see Oz's machines hidden behind the curtain. However, that doesn't mean they should hide the instruction manuals from the DMs that are supposed to be operating those machines. Disney wouldn't let some college student run the controls of Toy Story Midway Mania without providing the necessary education. Why shouldn't Mr. Potato Head provide a similar level of support to the AL DMs? Any AL DM who doesn't know how to run the game properly is doing a disservice to the program, which can have a negative impact on the brand by misrepresentation of the product.
I think the assimilation of organized play from a third-party into a first-party organization has revealed some shortcomings in the support structure. Granted, this is my first OP campaign and I have no experience of the RPGA to provide a firm basis for my claims. Yet, I can't help but feel that there were better structures in place to provide DMs with necessary info that was not meant for players' eyes.
Another possible solution to the distribution of information dilemma: The forums are already capable of being linked to DCI information, as evidenced by the badges displayed under each user's name. Why not have a sub-forum accessible only to users who have linked their DCI #s with X amount of games reported as a DM? Also, can we get a WER for Dummies tutorial? I'm sure that I'm reporting something wrong, as I was the first person to actually use it for D&D in my FLGS. |
| #8BRJNApr 04, 2015 18:48:56 | There HAVE to be stories from NPCs who travelled in and out of Mulmaster, got tripped up by the unique local laws / circumstances, managed to escape back home anyways, and told their friends about "how the trip went" - both good and bad. Come to think of it, Bards do just that for a living.
Another thread around here someplace has crafted a brochure-sized "What Your Character Needs to Know About Red Larch", for PotA. Maybe something similar for Mulmaster would be in order for DDEX2-x. My Merchant-Prince-wannabe is currently carrying certain Trade Goods. If those turn out to be illegal in town, I would rather sell them (in Phlan) and carry a solid gold bar, than get arrested for something that my character would have heard about but his player has not. I can only imagine the grief that a Cleric of Anybody-But-Bane is liable to get.
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| #9QwertyAzertyApr 05, 2015 17:21:23 | I'm all for keep information away so player cannot metagame, but what if my brand new character lvl 1 that I'm creating for season 2 was born and raised in Mulmaster? he shoul dknow that law, specially if he want to wizardry school there.
Seriously, metagaming means that the player do not use information his character wouldn't have, but the reverse does exist too, the character do have information the player is missing. My wizard know by heart the ingredient he need to cast spell X, but me the real human being in the real world, I need to double check in the PHB. My wizard know the exact movement and the exact word needed to cast a spell, me in the real world simply know the spell require somatic and verbal component. My Elf know that him and all other elf are immune to sleep magic (the same way that us human in the real life ar not alergic to silver) so an elf would NEVER cast a sleep spell on an other elf, the same way that you woul dnever give a silver sppon to your opponent in a fight believing that he'll get burn.
So yes my character who is born and raise in Mulmaster should know those particular laws that me the player have no clue existed untill I saw the rank 3 bonus for the Harper.
I could metagame and says that WotC want to give a fun experience to all players, including those who want to play a spellcaster but join a different faction then harper or didn't reach rank 3 yet (meaning all tier 1 advetnure) so if casting fire spell would be forbiden, then this might be considered has NOT FUN for all those fire dragon sorcerer, and pyromancer happy cleric of light and wizards out there. So chance are that a few specific spell cannot be cast (cannot cast fireball in town for example) or spell cannot be cast only in certian location (like no spellcasting will be permitted within a mile radius of the church of Bane for example).
Then if even the DM are not allowed of those law, then how are they going to implement them? If my DM is not aware that casting fireball near the church of Bane is illegal, how will he punish me when I do cast Fireball near teh church of Bane?
Then I really doubt WotC would implement a mechanic that will permanently do something really bad to your character because he did something that you as a player had absolutly NO WAY TO KNOW was illegal to do. Yes in Phlan in the bar fight, if you kill a "innocent" sailor, you get sentence to be killed, you are scared for your character, untill the DM tell you that your faction come and save you, but now the black guard don't like you. So it might be somethign similar here, where the first wizard who will cast that fireball near Bane temple, will get capture, receive a level of exhaustion from the interogation, will go to half HP from the torture, and will be release when the faction intervene and now you need to complete the adventure with half hp (or ask the cleric to heal you even if it's illegal) and with an exhaustion level. |
| #10UndrhilApr 05, 2015 18:47:57 | The problem with wanting the characters to find out about it "as it happens" is that, as QA mentioned above, some characters are going to have their background include growing up in and around Mulmaster, if not outright being born there. So they would know about any restrictions on magic casting.
Honestly, this just reinforces DM vs Player mentality, and if the AL admins are doing it ... heaven help us players..... |
| #11Cascade.rpgaApr 06, 2015 6:16:25 | I agree, if there are restrictions, both players and GMs need to know in advance...even just for the sake of table parity. |
| (Reply to #11)Pauper |
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| #13AvrossApr 06, 2015 9:25:33 |
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| #14TyranthraxusApr 06, 2015 18:19:27 | I tell players.
I recently ran MAyhem in Earthspur Mines and whilst I wont spoiler it, I had spellcasters in that casting spells. Luckily It was not very powerful stuff, but I did advise the characters that Spellcasting was under 'tight control' in Mulmaster. I didnt explain it anymore than that (no characters are from Mulmaster.. in fact as far as backgrounds go well.. most people dont know where their characters are from.. none of the players have really any FR knowledge)
I think people above are spot on. If you are from Mulmaster and you are a caster then you would know of the caster laws. If you are a spellcaster but not from Mulmaster you would probably know about the laws before you reach there. News travels. There are spells that move gossip, rumor and innuendo around the realms. People know that Phlan keeps getting Destroyed, People knew that Demihumans in Hillsfar were treated like Crap. People know that Mulmasterites with magic are tightly controlled (and the way I look at it is the same way I look at how the Sorc Kings of DS control other magic users). Its a lawful city , people know things. |
| #15devlin1Apr 06, 2015 23:11:54 |
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| #16AvrossApr 07, 2015 3:41:48 |
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| #17MeridianOfTormApr 07, 2015 6:13:03 | There absolutely need to be rules for this in the introduction / DM section of each adventure. And PCs need to know the rules as well - playing gotcha isn't any fun, and any arcane PC would quickly find out the rules (posted signs, gossip/rumors, etc.). I came up with how I'd run it personally. Imprisonment needs to be a threat (otherwise the Harper ability is useless, and that sucks), but not immediate (who wants to be taken out of the adventure in the middle?). Anyway, here's my idea:
Arcane Spellcasting in Mulmaster
Arcane magic in Mulmaster is restricted to the Brotherhood of the Cloaks. Non-Cloak mages (in other words, PCs) who cast spells and are caught by the city officials face fines or even imprisonment (which can involve torture and maiming). Whenever a PC visibly casts a spell in sight of a member of a Mulmaster official (Cloak member, city guard, soldier, or a member of the secret police known as the Hawks), he or she will be apprehended. Even if no Mulmaster officials are in sight, if the spell was cast in public there is a 50% chance a Mulmasterite will report the PC in hopes of a reward, also leading to the PC being apprehended in 2d6 rounds.
An apprehended PC must make a Charisma skill check (Deception, Intimidation, or Persuasion) to avoid legal consequences. If the PC can convince the city official that the spellcasting was in the best interests of the city (Persuasion), that they are actually a diplomatic attaché or a royal court wizard and therefore immune to spellcasting restrictions (Deception), or that they should be left alone – or else (Intimidation) – they can escape or reduce the penalty. Fortunately, Mulmaster officials are usually corrupt and open to bribes. Use the following chart for the outcome (Harpers of rank 3 get advantage on this roll, as per the ALPG):
DC <10: Failure: Fine of 25 GP per level of spell + imprisonment at the end of the adventure (of 2 downtime days per level of spell)
Imprisoned characters can have their sentence reduced if a Harper of rank 3 uses their faction special ability (a rank 3 Harper can spend downtime days to have an arrested caster freed from prison or harsh punishment at a cost of 1 downtime day per level of the violating spell). |
| #18SkerritApr 07, 2015 7:51:03 |
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| #19Cascade.rpgaApr 07, 2015 8:08:20 |
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| (Reply to #18)MeridianOfTorm |
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| (Reply to #20)Pauper |
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| #22KalaniApr 07, 2015 9:54:29 |
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| #23BRJNApr 07, 2015 15:14:55 |
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| #24RavixApr 07, 2015 17:39:55 | Boss. |
| #25TyranthraxusApr 07, 2015 17:52:27 | Your health is more important, take your time Greg. |
| #26shivafangApr 08, 2015 10:49:32 | Creating a character with a background specifically to know information that the campain doesn't intend for you to have is still metagaming. It's more justifiable than pure metagaming, but you are still using meta-knowledge of what you want to know when you create the character.
It's the same as the fighters who say 'well, my family was killed by dragons, so I learned their language' to take Draconic in Tyranny of the Dragons. It's still metagaming, because you the player figures you'll need your characters to understand Draconic for the purpose of the campaign.
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| #27shivafangApr 08, 2015 10:56:23 |
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| #28ZHDarkstarApr 08, 2015 13:46:40 |
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| #29shivafangApr 08, 2015 14:52:27 |
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| #30UndrhilApr 08, 2015 17:46:17 | I could see the local guard being trained in Arcana so they can identify spells being cast as they are cast (if Arcana still does that in 5e.)
PC: "I'm just going to cast Bless over here." Guard: "Uh, that's Fireball. You're under arrest!" |
| #31AvrossApr 08, 2015 18:43:11 |
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| #32ZHDarkstarApr 08, 2015 20:18:41 | The Arcana check makes sense, especially if it determines how a spell is being cast. For example, a Light Cleric casting scorching ray could use significantly different somatic and verbal components than the way a Wizard casts the spell, even if neither used their respective spellcasting foci instead of a component pouch. Even though multiclass spellcasters stack their levels for spell slots, each spell is cast using the methods that the different classes developed for manipulating the Weave. Basing it off of the "how" instead of the "who" or "what" seems like a possible happy medium for this situation.
Edit: Therefore, keeping the scope on the "how," my previous list of banned users would fit perfectly. The only real question is determining which side of the fence Bards would fall on, where the concept of a spellcasting focus has put them in a group unto themselves in the 5e magic paradigm. Even though they've traditionally been seen as arcane casters, the ability to replace material components with musical notes depicts a style of Weave manipulation that feels more divine than arcane. The fact that Magical Secrets can turn any spell into a bard spell is indicative that bardic magic has the versatility to transcend the Arcane/Divine divide of past editions.
Edit 2: Assuming that no spellcasting focus was used to cast a spell, which could immediately identify the type of spell being cast, I would use the following outcomes based on the Arcana check.
Then there are situational modifiers that can affect the roll. Use of a spellcasting focus would grant the guard advantage on the check, with the exception of druidic wands and staves, which could be mistaken for arcane foci. |
| #33TyranthraxusApr 08, 2015 21:16:43 | THe way I read it is that this is targeting Arcane Magic. I would not be targeting Clerics with this A) Because Its being enforced by the Brotherhood of the Cloak, the Wizards/Arcane Guild of Mulmaster and B) Clerics are ulimately responsible to their Church. If your Church has representation inside of Mulmaster then its likely they would deal with any Clerics who stray from doctrine.
If I was running the game, I would be singling out Sorcs, Wizards, Warlocks and Bards and Id leave Clerics alone.
Also Keep in mind at standard checkpoints you would likely have a Brotherhood of the Cloak member with the guards whose job is to not only provide magical support, but be the detection device for the group. |
| #34TheBreenApr 08, 2015 23:41:12 | The most detailed information I could find was from page 90 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Accessory Mysteries of the Moonsea, which was published in 2006 for D&D v3.5. That accessory does not mention "arcane" spell casting (as opposed to "divine" spell casting); that's an inference.
BROTHERHOOD OF THE CLOAK Magic can be a powerful threat to leadership. This threat is somewhat lessened if the practitioners of magic are watched, controlled, and indoctrinated into the service of the city. Whether or not this philosophy is correct is irrelevant, because it is the reason for the existence of teh Brotherhood of the Cloak. Any wizard of 4th level or higher is required to join the Cloaks, upon penalty of exile. Anyone who chooses not to join and is then caught casting a spell is dealt with harshly; penalties include torture, maiming, and often death. (snip) Only foreign officials can practice magic within the city; none of the Red Wizards are required to join the Cloaks, nor are the magic-using representatives from the Zhentarim.
Taken literally, though, while only wizards of 4th level or higher are required to join the Cloaks—interesting plot hook for PCs, there—"anyone" who is not a member of the Cloaks, the Red Wizards, or foriegn officials (including the Zhentarim) but is caught casting a spell "will be dealt with harshly." I'd certainly take "anyone" to include warlocks, sorcerers, bards, clerics, arcane tricksters, rangers, etc. I would not exclude "divine" spell casters because religious tolerance is not really Mulmaster's strong suit.
Dangerous place, that Mulmaster.
Note, though, that this resource takes place in 1373 DR, which is nearly a dozen decades prior to the "current" events of our campaign. Much may have changed. Perhaps the city government is kind and forgiving these days.
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| #35UndrhilApr 08, 2015 23:58:40 | A wizard with the charlatan background could easily pass themself off as a foreign official. Diplomatic immunity seems to be the order of business in Mulmaster.
And I presume that the line "and is caught casting a spell" is inferring that they are caught casting a spell within the city.
If a random Mulmaster guard happens to run into my group in a dungeon a ways out and recognizes me as a non-Cloak and sees me casting spells of a level that would require me to belong to the cloaks, could that guard arrest me? |
| #36TyranthraxusApr 09, 2015 0:39:12 | Undrhill: Do you really think a Cloak would have the rocks to attempt to arrest a Cleric of Bane for casting a powerful spell/magic within Mulmasters Jurisdiction. They might treat Clerics with faiths not associated with a temple in the city, but I doubt they would target any faith with a registered temple within city limits.
In regards to your hypothetical: I doubt they would try to arrest you but, if they have jurisdiction on an area you were in , they would return back to their Guard Commander, file a report (and hey.. its important to do so to advance their career) and then when the character/s returned would be met with an arrest. It would be a lawful member of Mulmaster against a Foreigner who should have known better. That or in passing through the manned city gate, records and names are taken and the character is blacklisted. No reason need be given.
Will that ever come up in AL? Unlikely. You can imagine now the greivances and the like the people playing would have if that started to happen to their spellcasters. |
| #37KalaniApr 09, 2015 8:53:45 | If it is anything like in the Mysteries of the Moonsea document, I would suspect it would apply to any L5 (or above) spellcaster. I have not yet begun reading DDEX2-2 or DDEX2-3 to see if anything is mentioned in this regard (but based on previous comments from other posters, I doubt it).
Like many, I am eagerly awaiting Greg's article |
| #38shivafangApr 09, 2015 10:05:08 |
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| #39PauperApr 09, 2015 10:28:47 | Arcane magic is whatever the High Blade says it is.
That's the beauty of a Lawful Evil government.
-- Pauper |
| #40KalaniApr 09, 2015 10:31:16 | Clerics of certain faiths may be considered "foreign dignitaries" however - such as the Clerics of Bane, but that would be on a case-by-case basis. We will simply have to wait and see what Greg comes up with. |
| #41shivafangApr 09, 2015 10:39:05 |
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| #42shivafangApr 09, 2015 11:17:19 |
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| #43PauperApr 09, 2015 11:22:27 | Well, however it's justified, I hope it's easy to throw PCs in the klink for casting spells -- otherwise a lot of Harpers I know will be disappointed that their faction-specific downtime activity isn't useful.
-- Pauper |
| #44AinulindalionApr 09, 2015 11:27:07 | And this is why, if you're going to set your OP campaign in an established world, you ought to drop the Campaign Guide for that world first.
Or, at least, a Moonsea and Sword Coast set of guides.
On the other hand, we're only 12 years after the 4E FR guide, so.... there's that. How much could possibly change in 12 years?
The Sundering is a lie. |
| #45ZHDarkstarApr 09, 2015 13:15:43 |
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| #46BRJNApr 11, 2015 15:47:58 |
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| #47reddaemonApr 12, 2015 0:52:37 | I think it is worth mentioning that page 205 of the Player's Handbook does indeed define what Arcane and Divine magic is and which classes use each type. It is in the side box. Warlocks, Sorcerers, Wizards, Bards, Eldritch Knights, and Arcane Tricksters cast Arcane spells and Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers cast Divine Spells. The fact that the terms are bolded in the description seems to suggest that it is somewhat important to note what type of magic each class is using to cast their spells. |
| (Reply to #47)Coredump00 |
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| #49TyranthraxusApr 12, 2015 23:33:04 | Now we know exactly what Arcane and Divine magic is. Let the controlling of magic begin! |
| #50QwertyAzertyApr 13, 2015 5:32:55 | Ok so I'm going to be running DDEX2-1 next week. I read the entire module and I cannot find anything about it except in
Show the first adventure where a member of the cloaks request help from the players, and explain to them that the cloak are in the city to control the arcane magic users, but doesn't give any more information, what do I do when my player will ask him what are the rules so they can avoid breaking them? remember I'm playing AL so I cannot be creative and create my own rules, or create my own punishement. |
| #51imaginaryfriendApr 13, 2015 11:15:44 |
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| #52PauperApr 13, 2015 11:25:37 | As noted by TheBreen, only arcane magic users of 4th level or higher were regulated under the requirement to join the Cloaks -- since DDEX 2-1 can only be played by level 1-2 characters, those characters wouldn't be affected.
Unless things have changed since previous editions, which is possible. After all, in pre-4th edition Mulmaster, the worship of Mystra was banned, which in theory would not have needed to be enforced during 4E days while Mystra was believed destroyed.
At this point, until we get the official word from Skerrit in his dndadventurersleague.org post, assume that PC arcane spellcasters haven't been in town long enough yet to have drawn the attention of the authorities. Once they realize how many refugees are coming in from Phlan, they'll get on the stick.
-- Pauper |
| (Reply to #52)Coredump00 |
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| (Reply to #53)TheBreen |
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| #55BRJNApr 13, 2015 18:00:31 | Qwerty, With the information we currently have available, you should be able to encourage most spellcaster PCs to look around carefully to make sure nobody will see them cast a spell. Somebody might even think of a way to spend a low-level spell slot as a "cop radar" to make SURE he won't get caught - or make SURE the eyes are watching after all.
If the Wizard is also an Elf, he gets reasonable (but not spectacular) weapon proficiencies. He could pretend to be a Swashbuckler or Archer, so as to not have a bulls-eye on his back.
AL staff: please find a way to re-create the old Disguise Spell metamagic feat as a Player Reward.
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| #56BRJNApr 15, 2015 17:39:20 | One other thought, as we continue in a state of ignorance of City Law:
There are a couple of IRL models to use for a tyrannical Government. - Latin American banana republic. "Send lawyers, guns, and money / Dad, get me out of this!" goes the song. Rather light-hearted, you can pay the officials before the fact to ignore you doing what you were going to do anyways, and they won't chase you very hard if you leave word that you are departing their jurisdiction never to return. Be aware though that the Mulmaster tyranny has been in place for centuries, so it cannot be completely incompetent. A small Secret Police is the guys who you do not want to cross, or draw their attention, but this agency cannot be everywhere at once to keep a lid on things. - Third World kleptocracy. They find (or make up) a problem with your paperwork, then demand an exceedingly high fine (bribe) to fix it and let you go. The level of the bribe might be calculated based on him living a Rich lifestyle for the next six months. If a group has offended, or somebody has offended twice, the new fine might be enough to let the official's extended family and/or entourage live a Rich lifestyle for several months. Everybody who is not a Government Employee but has money, has not yet been fined properly and we need to find a problem with their paperwork too. - Marxist-inspired government. A REAL Tyranny. Everything from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union to the National Socialist German Worker's Party, where nobody is allowed to tell the Party "No". The government (read: Party leaders) decides who has what rights, if any - and there are always 'villian classes' (such as Bourgeoisie or Jew ... or Adventurer) whose members have NO rights so they are legitimate targets for any sort of abuse your twisted mind can devise. The Secret Police does in fact have enough resources to be everywhere at once, and follow anybody they want to; they are encouraged to go on the offensive, rather than wait defensively for somebody to give them an excuse to track him down.
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| #57SpedGuyApr 15, 2015 20:27:47 | This is sort of a GM call situation but... You think the Pirate background trait might let one get away with minor spell casting on the assumption that folks are too afraid to report you? |
| #58TyranthraxusApr 15, 2015 20:34:50 | Its a LE city, they reward snitches. Generally LE people are harsh on foreigners as foreigners represent an unknown quantity. We dont know, but there might be a financial reward or some sense of civic duty in reporting some nutjob adventurers cast a fireball in an alleyway.
As stated SpedGuy, they dont much mind casting the lower level spells. When you start however throwing around level 3 power and up.. thats when you get noticed. |
| #59KalaniApr 15, 2015 21:04:31 | I had a situation come up yesterday with a certain skull of the fiery persuasion. After defeating it, one of the PCs took its remains as a trinket. This resulted in an unfortunate affair at a tavern. The PCs defeated it yet again but were arrested on suspicion of arcane arson and thrown in prison.
Their benefactor bailed them out in the morning. This despite the fact that said skull later burned down the tavern and slew several dozen citizens before it was destroyed by Banite priests.
The party was charged with reckless disposal of undead, but were released with a warning (the bribe errr bail was likely sizeable)
One of the PCs was later given a letter of referral to join the Cloaks and became a cloak. |
| (Reply to #57)Pauper |
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| #61AinulindalionApr 16, 2015 14:47:39 | So... my level 9 wizard who is also a rank 3 lord's alliance member who is a sworn war wizard of cormyr *ahhh headasplode* |
| #62BRJNApr 17, 2015 17:24:24 |
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| #63MeridianOfTormApr 26, 2015 14:15:50 |
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| #64SkerritApr 26, 2015 14:44:26 | Actually the Admins were just discussing the final version this afternoon. We are hashing out a few rules but it looks like it should be availble soon. |
| #65KalaniApr 26, 2015 14:55:09 | Also, the restriction on spellcasting was briefly mentioned in a sidebar in DDEX2-3. One of the NPCs will mention to the party that spellcasting is restricted and encourage them to join the Cloaks.
Depending on what level spell was cast, the NPC will either tell them to join up immediately, or inform them that they have a 6month window with which to sign up. |
| #66BRJNApr 26, 2015 15:49:50 |
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| #67KalaniApr 26, 2015 15:57:41 | According to the sidebar, visitors to Mulmaster have a 6month window (from the time they arrive) to sign up with the Cloaks.... I think it said 6mo, it might have said 3mo (I forget). |
| (Reply to #67)Undrhil |
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| #69LefferDPApr 26, 2015 22:07:38 |
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| #70QwertyAzertyApr 27, 2015 7:10:57 |
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| #71SkerritApr 27, 2015 7:34:02 |
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| (Reply to #69)Pauper |
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| #73SkerritApr 27, 2015 7:55:58 | A big part of it has to do with the original High Blade having to wrest power from the sorcerer-king Neskar. Magic is dangerous! |
| #74BRJNApr 27, 2015 14:04:55 |
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| #75abanathieApr 27, 2015 15:23:42 |
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| #76SpedGuyApr 27, 2015 18:23:11 | A sort of 'tales from the table' situation but... Our GM plays it as against all spellcasting but goes easier on clerics than others.
Twice now party members in our party have 'social skilled' their way out of getting in trouble; one pirate/warlock threatened some guy into not reporting him, and one cleric of Waukeen promised to 'put in a good word with the big boss for your business' if his spellcasting was overlooked. Intimidation and Persuasion checks and we walked away, but it was low level spells |
| #77LefferDPApr 27, 2015 19:10:31 |
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| #78TyranthraxusApr 27, 2015 23:54:55 | Its Generally pretty easy to identify a Cleric.
A) Holy Symbol held while intoning litany for magic B) Probably uses of their deities name in the magic verse C) Coloring of their robes (most Deities have color specific garb.. and locals would know who is who
As adventurers are not of the norm then yeah its possible they could be mistaken. |
| #79SkerritApr 28, 2015 5:45:23 |
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| #80PauperApr 28, 2015 9:43:45 | The State of Mulmaster article is up. A quick recap of the related rules regarding the Edict of Arcane Banishment:
- The rules apply to all Season 2 adventures that take place within Mulmaster. If you have already played a Season 2 AL adventure, you may retroactively decide that your character joined the Cloaks by paying the appropriate fee. (3 downtime days at Wealthy lifestyle at the end of each Season 2 AL adventure -- see below.)
- Arcane magic is officially defined as spells cast by arcane tricksters, bards, eldritch knights, sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards. Spells cast from scrolls or via racial abilities are not considered arcane.
- An arcane caster may publically take an oath to cast no spell while in Mulmaster and avoid the requirement to join the Cloaks; it is noted that breaking this oath usually results in execution, but there is no official rule on how this modifies the rules for Sentencing (see below).
- 'Apprentices' (characters with less than four levels in an arcane class) are generally not bothered with unless the apprentice casts a spell in a way the authorities can not conveniently ignore (spellcasting in the presence of a city official or against a citizen, for example). It is noted that members of the Mulmaster Watch are not trained to tell the difference between an apprentice and a 'full caster' and have been known to attack apprentices (at the DM's discretion). Arcane Tricksters/Eldritch Knights begin counting these levels from the level they gain spellcasting ability, not their first level of rogue/fighter.
- Characters with four or more levels in an arcane class who have not taken an oath or joined the Cloaks may be arrested in any adventure after their first in Mulmaster simply for existing; such characters can still be arrested for casting illegal arcane spells even during their first adventure.
- A spellcaster who wishes to mislead observers into thinking that he is not casting an illegal spell (by distracting onlookers or making them think it's the activation of a magical device, for instance) may attempt a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check at a DC of 8 plus the spell level of the spell being cast -- note that casting a spell with a higher level spell slot makes the spell that level for the purpose of this check. The caster must spend a bonus action to attempt this check.
- An arcane caster who fails the above check, or who doesn't bother attempting it, provokes a d20 roll on the 'Getting Caught' table (with a bonus to the roll equal to the level of the spell cast), unless the spell is witnessed by a city official, in which case the caster is automatically caught and sent to Sentencing. (It is not clear who makes the roll; the DM can have the player do so, or make the roll herself.) This will usually result in the character being given the opportunity to pay a bribe to avoid being brought to Sentencing.
- An arcane caster who goes to Sentencing has a high probability of losing all his 'banked' gold, so is encouraged to pay the 200gp*spell level fine if he is able to. There is a significant probability that the character will be executed in some way, and if the spell was high level, a slim chance that the character will be effectively removed from the campaign by being burned alive and having his ashes sprinkled into the Moonsea. Characters who attack nobility and/or have been previously banished from Mulmaster for breaking this rule have a significantly greater chance of being permanently killed. (Technically, the character can return if another PC is able to cast true resurrection during the session in which the executed character was killed; this is unlikely to be an available option to most executed PCs, though.) As with the Getting Caught roll, it's not clear who makes the Sentencing roll; the DM may do so, or may direct the player to do so, keeping the appropriate modifiers in mind.
- Joining the Cloaks requires the character to swear an oath to defend the rule of the High Blade, protect Mulmaster from arcane magic, and uphold the Edict of Arcane Banishment -- violating the oath results in permanent retirement from the campaign (unless another character can cast true resurrection before the end of the session, as above). It also requires the character to spend 3 downtime days at the end of every season 2 adventure, maintaining a Wealthy lifestyle during those downtime days.
- A character who joins the Cloaks gains ranks in that organization for playing season 2 adventures; the character's rank in the Cloaks confers benefits while adventuring in Mulmaster. This rank is unaffected by and does not affect the character's rank in an existing organization like the Harpers, though rank 3 Harpers do get a special Harper downtime activity (noted in the Season 2 ALPG) that can be used on behalf of characters who fall foul of the Edict of Arcane Banishment.
Hopefully this answers the OP's questions regarding arcane spellcasting in Mulmaster -- see the article on dndadventurersleague.org for full details.
-- Pauper |
| #81AinulindalionApr 28, 2015 9:47:06 | You can also distract with Charisma (Deception) at the same DC. |
| #82LefferDPApr 28, 2015 10:05:59 | If you become a member of the Cloaks during 2-1 and complete it, are you a Rank 1 Cloak? |
| #83Stormborn20Apr 28, 2015 10:28:22 |
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| #84KalaniApr 28, 2015 10:59:28 |
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| #85LefferDPApr 28, 2015 11:10:58 | Thanks! |
| #86SkerritApr 28, 2015 11:17:04 | The intent was that you are Rank 0 the moment you join. So for that first adventure, you are Rank 0. For every adventure you complete (and thus have spent the DT/gp cost) you gain a Rank, so you would be Rank 1 for your second adventure. If you gain one of the favors in an adventure, your Rank increases by another +1.
Greg Marks DnDAL Associate Resource Manager |
| #87Stormborn20Apr 28, 2015 11:21:46 | Thanks Kalani and Skerrit. I missed that bit during my first reading. Sorry about that.
At the start of your first adventure, you won't have downtime to spend (and maybe not the money, either). Can you still join the Cloaks and then pay the costs at the end of the session with your rewards? |
| #88SkerritApr 28, 2015 11:25:59 | If you have no DT at all, you won't be able to spend it. Not a problem, you'll be a Cloak for the second adventure and you'd still be immune from problems for that first adventure under the apprentice exemption. If you have DT from DMing or playing an Encounters or something else, you could spend it.
Greg Marks DnDAL Associate Resource Manager |
| #89PauperApr 28, 2015 11:39:35 | Just to be super-anal, "problems" refers to simply existing as an arcane caster without being a member of the Cloaks (or expressing an oath not to cast spells within Mulmaster) -- you can be arrested for spellcasting even as an 'apprentice', correct?
-- Pauper |
| #90PauperApr 28, 2015 11:41:21 | Also, I imagine you could spend the downtime you gain from the adventure in which you join the Cloaks to pay the cost of maintaining your Cloak membership -- since you receive the downtime at the end of the adventure and are assumed to spend it between that adventure and your next adventure.
-- Pauper |
| #91Stormborn20Apr 28, 2015 11:43:41 | The wizards who joined Zhentarim simply for the scrolls are going to feel silly now. |
| #92SkerritApr 28, 2015 11:47:00 |
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| #93KalaniApr 28, 2015 11:52:04 |
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| #94Stormborn20Apr 28, 2015 11:57:37 |
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| (Reply to #94)Pauper |
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| #96SkerritApr 28, 2015 12:22:15 | Rank 3: The character may obtain one spell scroll of a 1st level spell on the character's spell list found in the Player's Handbook, to be used during the adventure. The Cloaks aren't handing out EE spells.
Greg Marks DnDAL Associate Resource Manager |
| #97KalaniApr 28, 2015 12:24:45 |
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| #98Stormborn20Apr 28, 2015 14:06:02 |
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| #99KalaniApr 28, 2015 14:12:02 |
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| #100abanathieApr 28, 2015 15:09:38 |
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| #101SkerritApr 28, 2015 16:24:57 | Harpers - Cloaks Order of the Gauntlet - Soldiery Emerald Enclave - We don't like cities Lords Alliance - Hawks Zhentarim - Zhent Ghettos |