Why do we have logsheet and cert? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 QwertyAzerty Apr 22, 2015 9:08:41	I don't understand why do we have to fill up a logsheet and carry cert around? I mean yes if I can see that if that logsheet was filled on the WotC website (so I go in my personal profile, create my DnD character and I enter that tonight I play DDEX2-2 the DM will be John Smite DCI number 1234567890 and teh Store XYZ. Then John Smite do the same, fill up the sheet saying that he will DM a game at the store XYZ tonight etc... then yes I can see this as being kinda of usefull, and the store owner do loged in that he hosted a the DDEX2-2 adventure at his store etc... But from my understanding none of this exist (and like I explain later this could still be abused) At the moment the system we have is completly based on trust, with absolutly no way to verify it and is also optional (I never saw my DM asking to see everyone log sheet and checking all 6 player 5 pages long logsheet). So how hard is it to say that November the 22nd 2014 I played DDEX1-5 and gain magical item X, 600XP and 200gp? as long that in DDEX1-5 the magical item X is present, award at least 600Xp and at least 600gp (divided by 3 players) Those log sheet are honesty based and even without access to the DDEX module themself, they are easy to modify (my gorup found 2000gp in the module and we divided into 5 players (400gp) I'll award myself 800gp and of someone ask I'll say we had a 3 player table. Those goggle of night vision that the rogue got, well I want them too, so I'll put on my logsheet that I got them. The signature on the cert, If I was able to forge my mom signature on my exam in high school, I think I can forge the signature of a guy that no one knows. I could even technically create a second WotC account, creating a new DCI number, and I my second account will "sign" my first account certificate. Yes technically when the horn of blasting explose in my face I'm suppose to keep counting it in my permanent magical item, or I can go back to my logsheet where I did receive it and erase it, I never got it, or it never exploded and it's still useable, exactly like my potions, I keep drinking them every week, but I never remove them from my item list. The system is solely based on honesty and trust in the players, when you play with the same table over and over, then yes it's harder to screw the system, someone at the table is bond to remember that the horn exploded in your face, that yes you took the horn (because they wanted it) and you did drank that potion, and no the rogue got the goggle of night vision not you, but if you change table (go to a different store, visit your parent in a different city, go to a convention, then you can do pretty much what ever you want. Hey last week my warlock level 11 joined a group in Atlanta facing Tiamat and I received the dragon queen mask. Tonight I'm heading to play in Seattle, at a table where no one know me, and I can legaly used the mask since no one know what really happen in Atlanta. Yes the DM can say that he doesn't believe me and he don't trust my logsheet, and tell me that I cannot use the mask, but this would go again the idea that we trust the player to play fair and to not forge false logsheet. In a system based on trust, you'll alway have those who will break that trust, and even with a solid regulated system (everything need to be recorded online, the cert got unique ID number on them (my Hazirawn cert got a different number then your hazirawn cert) and those unique ID are loged in by the DM/store owner/LC/RC etc... in the system, then anyone can easily have access to the system and see my online logsheet approved by my DM/store owner/LC/RC) well this would increase greatly the workload of the "official", and this "official" can still screw the system by giving there friend more stuff then what they actually received so this is still based on trust, and how do you expect the LC or teh RC to witness all the games? trusting all the DM is almost as bad as trusting all the players. At the moment we have a system based on trust and that is extremly difficult to verify. For example If I tell you that I got my great axe+1 in DDEX1-5 what proove do you have that I even played in DDEX1-5? how do you check if DDEX1-5 do have a great axe+1 if you don't have access to the module? new DM that are just started now might not receive the password for the season 1 expedition website? you cannot even check if there is a great axe+1 available somewhere, since WotC refuse to publish (and are asking to the community to not publish it neither)a list of all the available magical item and where they are, so we could at least verify if it's plausible that a great axe+1 was found somewhere. At my table we have a player claiming he got an amulet of health from an Epic at a convention (but the DM didn't had the cert with him so he never received a cert) I never ran an Epic so I have to trust him, I have no clue if the epic do have an amulet of health, I have no idea if he received the amulet or if an other player got it instead, I don't even have proove that he play the Epic nor if he did go to the convention. Even if he bring me a cert sign by someone, I have no clue who that someone is, is it his friends or is it really a DM who run the Epic? The best I can do is check online if the DCI number match with the name, but that all I can verify. I know that in those convention people throws stuff in the trash (during pre-release tournament of magic, magic player throws their common and uncommon in the trash, or give them to the new kids, so I can easyly imagine someone who gain the item but is not really interested in playing AL DnD so he don't need that cert to throw it in the trash (then this player picked it up). So what does this big logsheet/cert system bring? boring paperwork to the players? I know that since we are just playing for FUN, and there is no big competition and big price to be won playing our AL character, even if I decide to fully forge my character from scrap (I create a level 10 sorcerer, with the black dragon mask, the staff of defense and the cloak of elven kind, the goggle of night vision the wand of magic missile and the wand of detect magic, I have 2000 gp, and I sit down at a table where no one know me and play and everyone have fun then good everyone had fun and that is the important thing. But then I repeat my initial question WHY? why do we have those logsheet and cert if they have no real value at a table.?
#2 Kalani Apr 22, 2015 9:56:26	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #2) TheBreen	Kalani wrote:
#4 Kalani Apr 22, 2015 10:06:48	True, except for the fact that it is copyright protected IP - and as such, it is still a felony regardless of whether it is prosecuted or not.
#5 QwertyAzerty Apr 22, 2015 10:29:12	My concern is not about if it possible, feasible, worth cheating. My question is more about what is the point of filliing the logsheet we use a honor base system anyway? what is the difference between the DM seeing on my logsheet that I have a great zex+1 and the DM seeing on my character sheet that I have a great axe+1? why do I keep track of it on 2 log sheet? Why do I fill that log sheet? then what if I loose the log sheet? I need to remember the date that I play adventure X and the GP I gain from it????? all that for what purpose? so the DM can ignore it because DM don't have time to look at 5 pages of logsheet from 6 players? then is the DM really going to cross reference to make sure that in adventure DDEX2-1 there is really 390gp (so my character is able to get 130gp if he was in a 3 member party?) etc... Like I said, I know that in DDEX1-2 there is magical item X available because my group found it, but my group gave that item to player B. well nothing is stoping me from writing on my logsheet that I receive the magical item, and I don't need special access to password protected information to do so, especially if I feel that the drow shouldn't have received the goggle of night vision, that my hafling rogue could have use them WAY better then that drow sorcerer. (and honestly, go on google and search for DDEX1-2 and I'm pretty sure you can find a PDF version of the adventure available to anyone). For cert like I said I can simply go to a convention, and check the trash, ask to the player who recceived one and ask if I can get the cert (they are useless anyway) etc...
#6 Kalani Apr 22, 2015 10:40:44	It is not the DMs responsibility to keep track of your logsheet - it's the players, however the DM can (at any time) request to review your logsheet. If it has not been kept up to date or has erroneous or questionable entries, the DM is authorized to exclude them (or the character) at their table. I had a player show up recently with a level 5 character. As this was not a player (or character) I had had the pleasure of gaming with previously, I asked politely if I could look over their logsheet (to see if there were any minor errors). The player had one entry on his logsheet and informed me that his previous DM allowed him to make a L5 character. I informed him that all newly created characters must be first level, and the logsheet is required to track their XP, treasure, from first level to the present - and without said log entries, I would be forced to disallow the character. While I cannot speak to it as I did not play LFR - I am under the understanding that they tracked characters digitally in that program, and it was a logistical nightmare, requiring substantial work by the DMs/Event organizers (especially at Cons) - even in situations which did not result in errors. It is my understanding they abandoned this model once they realized how much effort was required to maintain the database, and how unhappy organizers were with being forced to input so much data. While inputting data is fine for smaller events - at larger events (Cons and mega FLGSs), inputting the names and DCI numbers of the participants alone can take several hours. At my store, I regularly have 40-50 players each week (including DMs). Can you imagine how much work would be involved if the Store Rep who updates the WER was required to input the log entries for each and every character, and double-check them for accuracy?
#7 Coredump00 Apr 22, 2015 11:37:41	Mostly, it helps honest people stay honest. It takes conscious effort to forge a logsheet, and for many that is enough of a 'reminder' that they are doing something 'wrong' and should stop. I mean sure, you could add some GP or XP.... but who cares. To add lots of GP or XP takes effort. Yeah, you could grab some goggles that you shouldn't.... but most people won't, and the logsheet serves as a friendly reminder. It also helps people keep track of all the details. I bet that without them, a whole lot of folks would screw up the details pretty fast.
#8 RulesJD Apr 22, 2015 11:46:09	Kalani wrote:
#9 Primarchx Apr 22, 2015 11:49:55	Coredump00 wrote:
#10 QwertyAzerty Apr 22, 2015 12:12:51	but still all of you are saying that cheating sucks, cheating is not worth doing it, cheating is bad, and I'm not arguing that, I totally agree with you and I'm not sayign that I want to cheat are anything. What I'm saying is what is the points of the logsheet? -Punishing new player who didn't know about the logsheet? -Punishing lazy player not interested in filling the logsheet? -Punishing clumsy player who lost their logsheet? -Adding WORK (because let's be honest, it's not fun to fill that sheet, yeah it's easy and doesn,t require much work, but it's still WORK) to the player? But the logsheet will NOT prevent a cheater from cheating. If the player want to cheat he will cheat and the log sheet won'T stop him, since it's fairly easy to say that I received the magical item X from DDEX1-X or to say that I've play in the DDEX1-2 and gain 600XP, in DDEX1-3 and gain 600xp, in DDEX 1-4 and gained 600XP, and in DDEX1-5 and gain 600XP and in DDEX1-6 and gained 600XP and there I got a character level4, even I don't care how much you know about the modulle, you will not be able to tell me that I cheated if you see a log sheet saying I got 600XP, then I can fairly easyly put a "decent" among of gold, and you won't be able to detect, since who know, my table gave the magic item to player C but share the gold only between player A and B (which is legal if the player at the table agree) So yes the logsheet can be use to prevent new player from cheating without knowing, or like Kalani said, he had a new player who previous DM allowed to create a character level 5, and Kalani was able to tell that player: no you cannot play, start from level 1. But Kalani prevented a new player who didn't know better from "cheating" but that player didn't want to "cheat" his previous DM simply allowed him to play at his table tier 2 adventures, making the game more accessible. But if the player really wanted to cheat it would have took 5 mintue to create the logsheet for a level 5 character that even Kalani could not refuse. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to argu or anything, I would just like to understand what does those logsheet bring to the experience. Yes I can see the "nostalgia" aspect like PrimarchX said, but player who want to keep track of there adventure can already do it willingly, creating a journal or something, but I don't see the point of a mandatory logsheet system that is so easy to forge that it become pointless?
#11 Kalani Apr 22, 2015 12:19:46	Characters are only allowed to play each adventure exactly once. I think the most important entry on the logsheet is the adventure name - as DMs can quickly tell (at a glance) whether the player has played X adventure with Y character or not. Yes, tracking the XP, gold, renown, DT, et al is helpful - but, even though the logsheets do not prevent cheating - they do prevent players from repeating adventures with the same character. Yes, a player can cheat and say they played X adventure to gain Y item - but in doing so, they robbed themselves of the opportunity to play that adventure (at least with that specific character). Are there other methods which could be used in place of logsheets? Sure. Some are superior in some situations, and inferior in others - each has their pros/cons. It doesn't however, change the fact that logsheets are the method chosen for AL.
#12 QwertyAzerty Apr 22, 2015 12:34:57	I'm not a store owner or a RC or anything, I'm a regular player, who DM from time to time when the regular DM is unable to attend. But if the Store Owner are already sending the information about who play, in which store, on what date, ho wmuch additional work woul dit be to add the code of the module they played. Then that information get inside a database? where each player could create a query to receive the list of every adventure the PLAYER (not character) played, and prepopulate a list of all teh adventure he played, at least making it easier to player to redo there logsheet if they lose (or forget it)? At the same time, yes this would not really prevent cheating (since home game are still legal if they follow AL rules, and home game will most likely won't have access to that system) but the cost and effort required to make it at least easier for player to keep there logsheet updated coul dbe worth it. If the database also possess the list of what magical item are in which module (the list woul dbe hidding and only in the database, not available to the public) when the store indicate the player player DDEX1-2 the database make the item from DDEX1-2 available to the player profile, so yes it won't prevent the 4 player to cheat saying yes they got it, but at least the player won't be able to say they receive a great axe+1 from a module that do not have such item. Also the database could have the among of gold in the module, preventing the player from awarding themself more gold that the module offer (and since the database know how many player played, the database can also split the gold between the players) etc...
#13 Kalani Apr 22, 2015 12:46:06	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#14 RulesJD Apr 22, 2015 13:00:16	Honestly it's because WotC nor AL has ever developed a decent online character vault. It SHOULD only take a few seconds for each player at a table to lock themselves in to a DM for a session. At the end of that, the DM allocates EXP/Gold/Magic Items/Dt/Renown, and uploads it to the appropriate character log online. All uploads would be tracked and viewable to the DM. This solves many cheating problems. Sure, players and DMs can still collaborate, but you can't stop that anyways so who cares. Because the character logs (and magic items for that matter) are all stored online, players can't edit them. A player could still create enough false profiles to "DM" a game themselves for all their characters, but then each character would have to be assigned to a different DCI #, making it pretty combersome if you try to play two different characters with the same DM, because the DM could notice that you're playing under two different player names and DCI #s.
#15 MasterNamer Apr 22, 2015 13:51:32	@QwertyAzerty: It's my understanding that gold is always split evenly among the players. There's even a thread about it. Consumables and items are what the players divide up themselves.
#16 Raddu76 Apr 22, 2015 14:22:07	Logsheets are to track your character progression. Certs are for alowing magic items to be traded, it's as simple as that. If someone really wants to cheat and create a logsheet out of thin air, they can, but that's a lot of work and an experienced DM may spot that.
(Reply to #12) Coredump00	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#18 Byakugan01 Apr 23, 2015 0:27:35	I'm a new DM, and i am already pretty familiar with a majority of the magic items available in LMoP, ToD, and HotDQ, and most of the expeditions. It is pretty easy to notice forged entries. It is harder at conventions but if you show up at the convention and claim to have 5 magic items that just means you can't get the magic items at the end...and you are forced to cheat again and again and again, then you go back to your home state and DM asks for a cert for the amulet of health. If it was your only magic item, sure. But character with 5 magic items and no certs...sorry afraid you will not be able to use them. Your LGS only has so many tables, and DMs talk to each other. If you are willing to go through the trouble of going to a convention and digging through trash, why aren't you just stealing mail and using identity theft to make a bunch of money instead of imaginary magic items? Felony is a felony.
#19 abanathie Apr 23, 2015 1:10:42	I shake my head the whole felony thing. It can be a criminal offense, at least in the United States if (from a US government publication): (a) Criminal Infringement. — (1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed — (A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain; (B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or (C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution I don't think forged certifications would exceed $1,000 in value, but if you do gain that much money from presenting a falsified certification... As for forgery (again in the United States), you have to prove two things: false writing and the intent to defraud. Defraud is to gain money from deception. Again, the only way the criminal charge of forgery would stick is if the player gained money from having the forged certification, and felonies are criminal charges. They are not civil lawsuits. That's a different ball of wax.
#20 RulesJD Apr 23, 2015 1:55:20	^^ Thank you for saving me the time. I asked before for people to stop making claims that it would be a felony to cheat on certs or whatever. Don't waste anyone else's time trying to find a way or argue about it. It just isn't. Period.
#21 QwertyAzerty Apr 23, 2015 5:11:50	Coredump00 wrote:
#22 Skerrit Apr 23, 2015 7:02:54	The logsheet is also a good place to keep track of additional things like favors. Several adventures give out favors or contacts that have no certificate. The notes section of your logsheet is a great place to write down what the favor does, and if you have all your favors there, its easy for you or a DM to read which favors you have all in one place. Greg Marks Associate Resource Manager
(Reply to #21) Coredump00	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #23) TheBreen	Coredump00 wrote:
#25 QwertyAzerty Apr 23, 2015 12:04:42	Coredump00 wrote:
#26 abanathie Apr 23, 2015 13:33:28	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#27 Coredump00 Apr 23, 2015 14:42:56	Qwerty, in all honesty I have no idea why you bother to post here or anywhere. You never quite seem willing to read what anyone has written. I often have to write the exact same thing several times because you ignore them over and over... while making the same (already refuted) claims over and over. So let me try One. More. Time. The logsheets DO prevent cheating. And lets be clear again. NO! NOT ONLY from new people making mistakes. This is at least the third time I have explained this exact same concept, so please stop pretending its never been raised. The logsheets make it harder to cheat. (No, not impossible...but harder) Its trivial to erase your "8000 XP" and write "38000 XP" and go from 5th to 8th level. Its not trivial to fake enough logsheets to cover that. Its trivial to write down some magic items. Its not trivial to fake the logsheets to denote all of the places times and adventures in order to get those. Yes, if you really want to cheat, nothing will stop you... but most people, even most cheaters, are not that hardcore. Of course most DMs don't check logsheets..... because most people are honest, which is why its usually a waste of time. But if something seems 'weird', its an option. And just the chance of that, is enough to stop a lot of people from 'creative accounting'. Further, most cheating really just doesn't matter to having fun in the game. I think it is a detriment.... but really, if its small enough that I can't tell, it probably doesn't matter that much. Logsheets are an easy, uncomplicated, fast method to help players organize their adventure rewards, and help deter cheating. [quote]it's still extra work, yeah might just be 20 seconds, but it's still work and boring.[/quote] Yeah, you have already spent more of your life complaining about the logsheets than you ever would actually filling them out. And really, if your complaint is you must spend 20 seconds filling out some paperwork instead of sitting at the table doing nothing but stare into space.... I just can't work up the pity.... Apparently counting 2 diagoal movement as being 3 quare of movement is too complex for AL players. Apperently being small size giving you +1AC, flanking giving you +2, attacking from higher ground giving you +2 and having to add 1+2+2+stat+BAB was too complicated so instead we now have advantage+stat+proficiency. So yes compare to simple math that 5e "simplified" from 3rd edition, that logsheet is complex.
(Reply to #25) Coredump00	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#29 Byakugan01 Apr 23, 2015 23:34:11	If you have no moral compass and you don't care that every time you cheat and add a fake magic item you will have to find a new gaming table. If you aren't phased by the fact that every time you play your fake character you will be reminding yourself about how morally corrupt cheating is. If you don't feel guilt about it then you have bigger problems than forged certs and forged log sheets. The log sheets are like the door greeters at Wal-Mart. They help keep people honest. A very high % of first time shoplifters are spooked and decide against stealing when there is a person at the door. A professional thief isn't deterred because they are determined to steal, but even then a lot of them dump their goods because in their minds they worry if that employee is going to stop them.
#30 QwertyAzerty Apr 24, 2015 6:08:35	Coredump00 I won't even bother repeating my argument AGAIN to refute the same argument you keep repeating (that I already refuted when other people brought before you did) Byakugan01, I never said that cheating was good and everyone should do it. what I'm saying is that I do not believe that the logsheet is usefull, since like you, coredump and many other member of the community are saying, player are honest and cheating make the game less fun, so why would people bother cheating. So we are having a logsheet, to prevent a problem that according to the community do not exist. So coming back to my initial question: Why do we have to fill a logsheet? The community simply keep repeating that cheating sucks and no player cheats since everyone is honest so why having a logsheet? If the logsheet is not to prevent cheating (since no one is cheating, and the logsheet do a HORRIBLE job at preventing cheating) what is the logsheet there for? Yes the logsheet, in it's current state, does a horrible job at preventing cheating. DM very rarely check on them (since cheating sucks and player are honest), DM have no way to verify if the magical Item X was indeed in DDEXY-Z (unless they know by heart or made a homemade list of all magical item that are present in : LMoP HotDQ RoT PotS almost 20 DDEX 1 Epic and other convention rewards (trading post for example). by August DM will need to know more then 30 DDEX. and that among will keep growing as season go foward. So next years, those DM who NEVER play/run season 1, how difficult will it be to say that DDEX1-3 had a great axe+1? Yes for Kalani (and other DM) who have access to all seasons and might have made there own personal list saying where you get what item, then the logsheet could help detecting cheater, but this will only deter the "amateur" who try to say that DDEX1-3 had a great axe+1 in it, but it still won't stop my rogue from taking the goggle of night vision from the DDEX that did had goggle of night vision, and wonT' stop my barbarian from getting a great axe+1 (since the new DM at the table have no clue what was available back in season 1). and if you believe that the logsheet will at least prevent the player from getting a great axe+1 when facing an experience DM, But that experienced DM can just as easily see that great axe+1 on the character sheet then on a log sheet, and since the item never got created within AL material, you don't need a logsheet to determined that it's an illegal item. So what the logsheet is made to stop the player (who don't exist since all player are honest and cheating sucks) who cheated a goggle of night vision on his character, but filled in the logsheet incorrectly, saying that he got it from DDEX Y when the goggle are in DDEX Z? What happen if I do a honest mistake on my logsheet? The DM said that tonight we are playing DDEX2-3, so I fill in my logsheet saying DDEX2-3, but the DM changed it to DDEX2-4 and I forgot to change my logsheet, so now I honestly recceive the DDEX2-4 magical item but logged it under DDEX2-3 and now my character is illegal because of a stupid mistake?
#31 Coredump00 Apr 24, 2015 6:25:38	Wow.... well I said I would give it one more try. And I did And you are still misquoting me. (Eventhough I used very plain language and very short paragraphs for emphasis...) I would ask you to stop attributing things to me that I didn't say, but it is becoming apparent that your bias is affecting your reading comprehension and thus you seem to really believe that I said those things..... I hope you enjoy the game....
#32 QwertyAzerty Apr 24, 2015 8:56:06	Coredump00 wrote:
#33 Pauper Apr 24, 2015 9:19:42	While the bickering isn't very valuable, the observation that the OP campaign is somewhat inconsistent with how it deals with the character log is somewhat more valuable. For instance, the ALPG notes that the character log is "your official record of your character!" (p.4) Yet the log isn't required: "In addition to your character sheet, you should have an adventure logsheet." (p.4, empahsis on 'should' added) It's been noted that DMs don't have the authority to modify a character's logsheet, despite the ALPG strongly suggesting that DMs can require players to do so: "A Dungeon Master can review paperwork (character sheets, adventure logsheets, and certificates) at any time. If you notice something amiss -- either with paperwork or during the game (fudging dice rolls, not checking off used items, and so on) -- discuss it with the player and make any corrections necessary." (Cheating sidebar, p.13, emphasis added) I imagine the reason behind this ambivalence is the recognition that just about the only way to confirm that a logsheet has been falsified is if the player does a poor job of falsifying it. A player who has no scruples about cheating on his logsheet is probably going to cheat in other ways as well, and the ALPG does cover what to do in those situations. -- Pauper
#34 Mirtek Apr 24, 2015 10:28:29	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #34) TheBreen	Mirtek wrote:
(Reply to #34) QwertyAzerty	Mirtek wrote:
#37 Kalani Apr 24, 2015 10:50:46	Edit: Sorry, posted in wrong thread.
(Reply to #35) Pauper	TheBreen wrote:
#39 Pauper Apr 24, 2015 11:59:39	I should also point out that, despite my comments on the ALPG being confusing, the FAQ is not -- question 2.14 in the FAQ Wiki notes that, even for a character in a home game or one that never plans to play in other AL games, maintaining a logsheet is mandatory. I can't say you'd ever be penalized for violating this policy if you are one of those players in a home game or solely playing with a single DM -- since the DM is the person who'd have to police you, and she may well decide it's not worth the effort -- but the requirement is not as confusing as I previously suggested. -- Pauper
(Reply to #35) Coredump00	TheBreen wrote:
(Reply to #40) TheBreen	Coredump00 wrote:
#42 BRJN Apr 25, 2015 11:52:23	I've got a few things on my character logsheet that I hope to use for RP and fun in the future. Map of the River Trank - gotta be a way to make some money, drawing and selling copies to caravan masters or expedition leaders. "Dragon Lair" ought to draw attention, too. Bag full of "GP" wooden disks - just waiting for some DM to pick my pocket. There is also the adventure where I gained a +1 longbow, just in case anybody ever asks why I'm such a good shot.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

QwertyAzerty

Apr 22, 2015 9:08:41

I don't understand why do we have to fill up a logsheet and carry cert around? I mean yes if I can see that if that logsheet was filled on the WotC website (so I go in my personal profile, create my DnD character and I enter that tonight I play DDEX2-2 the DM will be John Smite DCI number 1234567890 and teh Store XYZ. Then John Smite do the same, fill up the sheet saying that he will DM a game at the store XYZ tonight etc... then yes I can see this as being kinda of usefull, and the store owner do loged in that he hosted a the DDEX2-2 adventure at his store etc... But from my understanding none of this exist (and like I explain later this could still be abused)

At the moment the system we have is completly based on trust, with absolutly no way to verify it and is also optional (I never saw my DM asking to see everyone log sheet and checking all 6 player 5 pages long logsheet). So how hard is it to say that November the 22nd 2014 I played DDEX1-5 and gain magical item X, 600XP and 200gp? as long that in DDEX1-5 the magical item X is present, award at least 600Xp and at least 600gp (divided by 3 players)

Those log sheet are honesty based and even without access to the DDEX module themself, they are easy to modify (my gorup found 2000gp in the module and we divided into 5 players (400gp) I'll award myself 800gp and of someone ask I'll say we had a 3 player table. Those goggle of night vision that the rogue got, well I want them too, so I'll put on my logsheet that I got them.

The signature on the cert, If I was able to forge my mom signature on my exam in high school, I think I can forge the signature of a guy that no one knows. I could even technically create a second WotC account, creating a new DCI number, and I my second account will "sign" my first account certificate.

Yes technically when the horn of blasting explose in my face I'm suppose to keep counting it in my permanent magical item, or I can go back to my logsheet where I did receive it and erase it, I never got it, or it never exploded and it's still useable, exactly like my potions, I keep drinking them every week, but I never remove them from my item list.

The system is solely based on honesty and trust in the players, when you play with the same table over and over, then yes it's harder to screw the system, someone at the table is bond to remember that the horn exploded in your face, that yes you took the horn (because they wanted it) and you did drank that potion, and no the rogue got the goggle of night vision not you, but if you change table (go to a different store, visit your parent in a different city, go to a convention, then you can do pretty much what ever you want. Hey last week my warlock level 11 joined a group in Atlanta facing Tiamat and I received the dragon queen mask. Tonight I'm heading to play in Seattle, at a table where no one know me, and I can legaly used the mask since no one know what really happen in Atlanta. Yes the DM can say that he doesn't believe me and he don't trust my logsheet, and tell me that I cannot use the mask, but this would go again the idea that we trust the player to play fair and to not forge false logsheet.

In a system based on trust, you'll alway have those who will break that trust, and even with a solid regulated system (everything need to be recorded online, the cert got unique ID number on them (my Hazirawn cert got a different number then your hazirawn cert) and those unique ID are loged in by the DM/store owner/LC/RC etc... in the system, then anyone can easily have access to the system and see my online logsheet approved by my DM/store owner/LC/RC) well this would increase greatly the workload of the "official", and this "official" can still screw the system by giving there friend more stuff then what they actually received so this is still based on trust, and how do you expect the LC or teh RC to witness all the games? trusting all the DM is almost as bad as trusting all the players.

At the moment we have a system based on trust and that is extremly difficult to verify. For example If I tell you that I got my great axe+1 in DDEX1-5 what proove do you have that I even played in DDEX1-5? how do you check if DDEX1-5 do have a great axe+1 if you don't have access to the module? new DM that are just started now might not receive the password for the season 1 expedition website? you cannot even check if there is a great axe+1 available somewhere, since WotC refuse to publish (and are asking to the community to not publish it neither)a list of all the available magical item and where they are, so we could at least verify if it's plausible that a great axe+1 was found somewhere.

At my table we have a player claiming he got an amulet of health from an Epic at a convention (but the DM didn't had the cert with him so he never received a cert) I never ran an Epic so I have to trust him, I have no clue if the epic do have an amulet of health, I have no idea if he received the amulet or if an other player got it instead, I don't even have proove that he play the Epic nor if he did go to the convention. Even if he bring me a cert sign by someone, I have no clue who that someone is, is it his friends or is it really a DM who run the Epic? The best I can do is check online if the DCI number match with the name, but that all I can verify. I know that in those convention people throws stuff in the trash (during pre-release tournament of magic, magic player throws their common and uncommon in the trash, or give them to the new kids, so I can easyly imagine someone who gain the item but is not really interested in playing AL DnD so he don't need that cert to throw it in the trash (then this player picked it up).

So what does this big logsheet/cert system bring? boring paperwork to the players? I know that since we are just playing for FUN, and there is no big competition and big price to be won playing our AL character, even if I decide to fully forge my character from scrap (I create a level 10 sorcerer, with the black dragon mask, the staff of defense and the cloak of elven kind, the goggle of night vision the wand of magic missile and the wand of detect magic, I have 2000 gp, and I sit down at a table where no one know me and play and everyone have fun then good everyone had fun and that is the important thing. But then I repeat my initial question WHY? why do we have those logsheet and cert if they have no real value at a table.?

Kalani

Apr 22, 2015 9:56:26

QwertyAzerty wrote:

(Reply to #2)

TheBreen

Kalani wrote:

Kalani

Apr 22, 2015 10:06:48

True, except for the fact that it is copyright protected IP - and as such, it is still a felony regardless of whether it is prosecuted or not.

QwertyAzerty

Apr 22, 2015 10:29:12

My concern is not about if it possible, feasible, worth cheating. My question is more about what is the point of filliing the logsheet we use a honor base system anyway? what is the difference between the DM seeing on my logsheet that I have a great zex+1 and the DM seeing on my character sheet that I have a great axe+1? why do I keep track of it on 2 log sheet? Why do I fill that log sheet? then what if I loose the log sheet? I need to remember the date that I play adventure X and the GP I gain from it????? all that for what purpose? so the DM can ignore it because DM don't have time to look at 5 pages of logsheet from 6 players? then is the DM really going to cross reference to make sure that in adventure DDEX2-1 there is really 390gp (so my character is able to get 130gp if he was in a 3 member party?) etc...

Like I said, I know that in DDEX1-2 there is magical item X available because my group found it, but my group gave that item to player B. well nothing is stoping me from writing on my logsheet that I receive the magical item, and I don't need special access to password protected information to do so, especially if I feel that the drow shouldn't have received the goggle of night vision, that my hafling rogue could have use them WAY better then that drow sorcerer. (and honestly, go on google and search for DDEX1-2 and I'm pretty sure you can find a PDF version of the adventure available to anyone).

For cert like I said I can simply go to a convention, and check the trash, ask to the player who recceived one and ask if I can get the cert (they are useless anyway) etc...

Kalani

Apr 22, 2015 10:40:44

It is not the DMs responsibility to keep track of your logsheet - it's the players, however the DM can (at any time) request to review your logsheet. If it has not been kept up to date or has erroneous or questionable entries, the DM is authorized to exclude them (or the character) at their table.

I had a player show up recently with a level 5 character. As this was not a player (or character) I had had the pleasure of gaming with previously, I asked politely if I could look over their logsheet (to see if there were any minor errors). The player had one entry on his logsheet and informed me that his previous DM allowed him to make a L5 character. I informed him that all newly created characters must be first level, and the logsheet is required to track their XP, treasure, from first level to the present - and without said log entries, I would be forced to disallow the character.

While I cannot speak to it as I did not play LFR - I am under the understanding that they tracked characters digitally in that program, and it was a logistical nightmare, requiring substantial work by the DMs/Event organizers (especially at Cons) - even in situations which did not result in errors. It is my understanding they abandoned this model once they realized how much effort was required to maintain the database, and how unhappy organizers were with being forced to input so much data.

While inputting data is fine for smaller events - at larger events (Cons and mega FLGSs), inputting the names and DCI numbers of the participants alone can take several hours. At my store, I regularly have 40-50 players each week (including DMs). Can you imagine how much work would be involved if the Store Rep who updates the WER was required to input the log entries for each and every character, and double-check them for accuracy?

Coredump00

Apr 22, 2015 11:37:41

Mostly, it helps honest people stay honest.

It takes conscious effort to forge a logsheet, and for many that is enough of a 'reminder' that they are doing something 'wrong' and should stop. I mean sure, you could add some GP or XP.... but who cares. To add lots of GP or XP takes effort.

Yeah, you could grab some goggles that you shouldn't.... but most people won't, and the logsheet serves as a friendly reminder.

It also helps people keep track of all the details. I bet that without them, a whole lot of folks would screw up the details pretty fast.

RulesJD

Apr 22, 2015 11:46:09

Kalani wrote:

Primarchx

Apr 22, 2015 11:49:55

Coredump00 wrote:

#10

QwertyAzerty

Apr 22, 2015 12:12:51

but still all of you are saying that cheating sucks, cheating is not worth doing it, cheating is bad, and I'm not arguing that, I totally agree with you and I'm not sayign that I want to cheat are anything.

What I'm saying is what is the points of the logsheet?

-Punishing new player who didn't know about the logsheet?

-Punishing lazy player not interested in filling the logsheet?

-Punishing clumsy player who lost their logsheet?

-Adding WORK (because let's be honest, it's not fun to fill that sheet, yeah it's easy and doesn,t require much work, but it's still WORK) to the player?

But the logsheet will NOT prevent a cheater from cheating. If the player want to cheat he will cheat and the log sheet won'T stop him, since it's fairly easy to say that I received the magical item X from DDEX1-X or to say that I've play in the DDEX1-2 and gain 600XP, in DDEX1-3 and gain 600xp, in DDEX 1-4 and gained 600XP, and in DDEX1-5 and gain 600XP and in DDEX1-6 and gained 600XP and there I got a character level4, even I don't care how much you know about the modulle, you will not be able to tell me that I cheated if you see a log sheet saying I got 600XP, then I can fairly easyly put a "decent" among of gold, and you won't be able to detect, since who know, my table gave the magic item to player C but share the gold only between player A and B (which is legal if the player at the table agree)

So yes the logsheet can be use to prevent new player from cheating without knowing, or like Kalani said, he had a new player who previous DM allowed to create a character level 5, and Kalani was able to tell that player: no you cannot play, start from level 1. But Kalani prevented a new player who didn't know better from "cheating" but that player didn't want to "cheat" his previous DM simply allowed him to play at his table tier 2 adventures, making the game more accessible. But if the player really wanted to cheat it would have took 5 mintue to create the logsheet for a level 5 character that even Kalani could not refuse.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to argu or anything, I would just like to understand what does those logsheet bring to the experience. Yes I can see the "nostalgia" aspect like PrimarchX said, but player who want to keep track of there adventure can already do it willingly, creating a journal or something, but I don't see the point of a mandatory logsheet system that is so easy to forge that it become pointless?

#11

Kalani

Apr 22, 2015 12:19:46

Characters are only allowed to play each adventure exactly once. I think the most important entry on the logsheet is the adventure name - as DMs can quickly tell (at a glance) whether the player has played X adventure with Y character or not.

Yes, tracking the XP, gold, renown, DT, et al is helpful - but, even though the logsheets do not prevent cheating - they do prevent players from repeating adventures with the same character. Yes, a player can cheat and say they played X adventure to gain Y item - but in doing so, they robbed themselves of the opportunity to play that adventure (at least with that specific character).

Are there other methods which could be used in place of logsheets?

Sure. Some are superior in some situations, and inferior in others - each has their pros/cons.

It doesn't however, change the fact that logsheets are the method chosen for AL.

#12

QwertyAzerty

Apr 22, 2015 12:34:57

I'm not a store owner or a RC or anything, I'm a regular player, who DM from time to time when the regular DM is unable to attend.

But if the Store Owner are already sending the information about who play, in which store, on what date, ho wmuch additional work woul dit be to add the code of the module they played.

Then that information get inside a database? where each player could create a query to receive the list of every adventure the PLAYER (not character) played, and prepopulate a list of all teh adventure he played, at least making it easier to player to redo there logsheet if they lose (or forget it)?

At the same time, yes this would not really prevent cheating (since home game are still legal if they follow AL rules, and home game will most likely won't have access to that system) but the cost and effort required to make it at least easier for player to keep there logsheet updated coul dbe worth it. If the database also possess the list of what magical item are in which module (the list woul dbe hidding and only in the database, not available to the public) when the store indicate the player player DDEX1-2 the database make the item from DDEX1-2 available to the player profile, so yes it won't prevent the 4 player to cheat saying yes they got it, but at least the player won't be able to say they receive a great axe+1 from a module that do not have such item. Also the database could have the among of gold in the module, preventing the player from awarding themself more gold that the module offer (and since the database know how many player played, the database can also split the gold between the players) etc...

#13

Kalani

Apr 22, 2015 12:46:06

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#14

RulesJD

Apr 22, 2015 13:00:16

Honestly it's because WotC nor AL has ever developed a decent online character vault. It SHOULD only take a few seconds for each player at a table to lock themselves in to a DM for a session. At the end of that, the DM allocates EXP/Gold/Magic Items/Dt/Renown, and uploads it to the appropriate character log online. All uploads would be tracked and viewable to the DM.

This solves many cheating problems. Sure, players and DMs can still collaborate, but you can't stop that anyways so who cares. Because the character logs (and magic items for that matter) are all stored online, players can't edit them. A player could still create enough false profiles to "DM" a game themselves for all their characters, but then each character would have to be assigned to a different DCI #, making it pretty combersome if you try to play two different characters with the same DM, because the DM could notice that you're playing under two different player names and DCI #s.

#15

MasterNamer

Apr 22, 2015 13:51:32

@QwertyAzerty: It's my understanding that gold is always split evenly among the players. There's even a thread about it. Consumables and items are what the players divide up themselves.

#16

Raddu76

Apr 22, 2015 14:22:07

Logsheets are to track your character progression. Certs are for alowing magic items to be traded, it's as simple as that. If someone really wants to cheat and create a logsheet out of thin air, they can, but that's a lot of work and an experienced DM may spot that.

(Reply to #12)

Coredump00

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#18

Byakugan01

Apr 23, 2015 0:27:35

I'm a new DM, and i am already pretty familiar with a majority of the magic items available in LMoP, ToD, and HotDQ, and most of the expeditions. It is pretty easy to notice forged entries. It is harder at conventions but if you show up at the convention and claim to have 5 magic items that just means you can't get the magic items at the end...and you are forced to cheat again and again and again, then you go back to your home state and DM asks for a cert for the amulet of health. If it was your only magic item, sure. But character with 5 magic items and no certs...sorry afraid you will not be able to use them. Your LGS only has so many tables, and DMs talk to each other.

If you are willing to go through the trouble of going to a convention and digging through trash, why aren't you just stealing mail and using identity theft to make a bunch of money instead of imaginary magic items? Felony is a felony.

#19

abanathie

Apr 23, 2015 1:10:42

I shake my head the whole felony thing. It can be a criminal offense, at least in the United States if (from a US government publication):

(a) Criminal Infringement. —

(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or

(C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution

I don't think forged certifications would exceed $1,000 in value, but if you do gain that much money from presenting a falsified certification...

As for forgery (again in the United States), you have to prove two things: false writing and the intent to defraud. Defraud is to gain money from deception. Again, the only way the criminal charge of forgery would stick is if the player gained money from having the forged certification, and felonies are criminal charges. They are not civil lawsuits. That's a different ball of wax.

#20

RulesJD

Apr 23, 2015 1:55:20

^^ Thank you for saving me the time. I asked before for people to stop making claims that it would be a felony to cheat on certs or whatever. Don't waste anyone else's time trying to find a way or argue about it. It just isn't. Period.

#21

QwertyAzerty

Apr 23, 2015 5:11:50

Coredump00 wrote:

#22

Skerrit

Apr 23, 2015 7:02:54

The logsheet is also a good place to keep track of additional things like favors. Several adventures give out favors or contacts that have no certificate. The notes section of your logsheet is a great place to write down what the favor does, and if you have all your favors there, its easy for you or a DM to read which favors you have all in one place.

Greg Marks

Associate Resource Manager

(Reply to #21)

Coredump00

QwertyAzerty wrote:

(Reply to #23)

TheBreen

Coredump00 wrote:

#25

QwertyAzerty

Apr 23, 2015 12:04:42

Coredump00 wrote:

#26

abanathie

Apr 23, 2015 13:33:28

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#27

Coredump00

Apr 23, 2015 14:42:56

Qwerty, in all honesty I have no idea why you bother to post here or anywhere. You never quite seem willing to read what anyone has written. I often have to write the exact same thing several times because you ignore them over and over... while making the same (already refuted) claims over and over.

So let me try One. More. Time.

The logsheets *DO* prevent cheating.

And lets be clear again. NO! NOT ONLY from new people making mistakes.

This is at least the third time I have explained this exact same concept, so please stop pretending its never been raised.

The logsheets make it harder to cheat. (No, not impossible...but harder) Its trivial to erase your "8000 XP" and write "38000 XP" and go from 5th to 8th level. Its *not* trivial to fake enough logsheets to cover that. Its trivial to write down some magic items. Its not trivial to fake the logsheets to denote all of the places times and adventures in order to get those. Yes, if you really want to cheat, nothing will stop you... but most people, even most cheaters, are not that hardcore.

Of course most DMs don't check logsheets..... because most people are honest, which is why its usually a waste of time. But if something seems 'weird', its an option. And just the chance of that, is enough to stop a lot of people from 'creative accounting'. Further, most cheating really just doesn't matter to having fun in the game. I think it is a detriment.... but really, if its small enough that I can't tell, it probably doesn't matter that much. Logsheets are an easy, uncomplicated, fast method to help players organize their adventure rewards, and help deter cheating.

[quote]it's still extra work, yeah might just be 20 seconds, but it's still work and boring.[/quote]

Yeah, you have already spent more of your life complaining about the logsheets than you ever would actually filling them out. And really, if your complaint is you must spend 20 seconds filling out some paperwork instead of sitting at the table doing nothing but stare into space.... I just can't work up the pity....

Apparently counting 2 diagoal movement as being 3 quare of movement is too complex for AL players. Apperently being small size giving you +1AC, flanking giving you +2, attacking from higher ground giving you +2 and having to add 1+2+2+stat+BAB was too complicated so instead we now have advantage+stat+proficiency. So yes compare to simple math that 5e "simplified" from 3rd edition, that logsheet is complex.

(Reply to #25)

Coredump00

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#29

Byakugan01

Apr 23, 2015 23:34:11

If you have no moral compass and you don't care that every time you cheat and add a fake magic item you will have to find a new gaming table. If you aren't phased by the fact that every time you play your fake character you will be reminding yourself about how morally corrupt cheating is. If you don't feel guilt about it then you have bigger problems than forged certs and forged log sheets.

The log sheets are like the door greeters at Wal-Mart. They help keep people honest. A very high % of first time shoplifters are spooked and decide against stealing when there is a person at the door. A professional thief isn't deterred because they are determined to steal, but even then a lot of them dump their goods because in their minds they worry if that employee is going to stop them.

#30

QwertyAzerty

Apr 24, 2015 6:08:35

Coredump00 I won't even bother repeating my argument AGAIN to refute the same argument you keep repeating (that I already refuted when other people brought before you did)

Byakugan01, I never said that cheating was good and everyone should do it. what I'm saying is that I do not believe that the logsheet is usefull, since like you, coredump and many other member of the community are saying, player are honest and cheating make the game less fun, so why would people bother cheating. So we are having a logsheet, to prevent a problem that according to the community do not exist. So coming back to my initial question: Why do we have to fill a logsheet? The community simply keep repeating that cheating sucks and no player cheats since everyone is honest so why having a logsheet? If the logsheet is not to prevent cheating (since no one is cheating, and the logsheet do a HORRIBLE job at preventing cheating) what is the logsheet there for?

Yes the logsheet, in it's current state, does a horrible job at preventing cheating. DM very rarely check on them (since cheating sucks and player are honest), DM have no way to verify if the magical Item X was indeed in DDEXY-Z (unless they know by heart or made a homemade list of all magical item that are present in :

LMoP

HotDQ

RoT

PotS

almost 20 DDEX

1 Epic

and other convention rewards (trading post for example).

by August DM will need to know more then 30 DDEX. and that among will keep growing as season go foward.

So next years, those DM who NEVER play/run season 1, how difficult will it be to say that DDEX1-3 had a great axe+1? Yes for Kalani (and other DM) who have access to all seasons and might have made there own personal list saying where you get what item, then the logsheet could help detecting cheater, but this will only deter the "amateur" who try to say that DDEX1-3 had a great axe+1 in it, but it still won't stop my rogue from taking the goggle of night vision from the DDEX that did had goggle of night vision, and wonT' stop my barbarian from getting a great axe+1 (since the new DM at the table have no clue what was available back in season 1).

and if you believe that the logsheet will at least prevent the player from getting a great axe+1 when facing an experience DM, But that experienced DM can just as easily see that great axe+1 on the character sheet then on a log sheet, and since the item never got created within AL material, you don't need a logsheet to determined that it's an illegal item. So what the logsheet is made to stop the player (who don't exist since all player are honest and cheating sucks) who cheated a goggle of night vision on his character, but filled in the logsheet incorrectly, saying that he got it from DDEX Y when the goggle are in DDEX Z?

What happen if I do a honest mistake on my logsheet? The DM said that tonight we are playing DDEX2-3, so I fill in my logsheet saying DDEX2-3, but the DM changed it to DDEX2-4 and I forgot to change my logsheet, so now I honestly recceive the DDEX2-4 magical item but logged it under DDEX2-3 and now my character is illegal because of a stupid mistake?

#31

Coredump00

Apr 24, 2015 6:25:38

Wow.... well I said I would give it one more try. And I did And you are still misquoting me. (Eventhough I used very plain language and very short paragraphs for emphasis...)

I would ask you to stop attributing things to me that I didn't say, but it is becoming apparent that your bias is affecting your reading comprehension and thus you seem to really believe that I said those things.....

I hope you enjoy the game....

#32

QwertyAzerty

Apr 24, 2015 8:56:06

Coredump00 wrote:

#33

Pauper

Apr 24, 2015 9:19:42

While the bickering isn't very valuable, the observation that the OP campaign is somewhat inconsistent with how it deals with the character log is somewhat more valuable.

For instance, the ALPG notes that the character log is "your official record of your character!" (p.4) Yet the log isn't required: "In addition to your character sheet, you should have an adventure logsheet." (p.4, empahsis on 'should' added)

It's been noted that DMs don't have the authority to modify a character's logsheet, despite the ALPG strongly suggesting that DMs can require players to do so: "A Dungeon Master can review paperwork (character sheets, adventure logsheets, and certificates) at any time. If you notice something amiss -- either with paperwork or during the game (fudging dice rolls, not checking off used items, and so on) -- discuss it with the player and make any corrections necessary." (Cheating sidebar, p.13, emphasis added)

I imagine the reason behind this ambivalence is the recognition that just about the only way to confirm that a logsheet has been falsified is if the player does a poor job of falsifying it. A player who has no scruples about cheating on his logsheet is probably going to cheat in other ways as well, and the ALPG does cover what to do in those situations.

Pauper

#34

Mirtek

Apr 24, 2015 10:28:29

QwertyAzerty wrote:

(Reply to #34)

TheBreen

Mirtek wrote:

(Reply to #34)

QwertyAzerty

Mirtek wrote:

#37

Kalani

Apr 24, 2015 10:50:46

Edit: Sorry, posted in wrong thread.

(Reply to #35)

Pauper

TheBreen wrote:

#39

Pauper

Apr 24, 2015 11:59:39

I should also point out that, despite my comments on the ALPG being confusing, the FAQ is not -- question 2.14 in the FAQ Wiki notes that, even for a character in a home game or one that never plans to play in other AL games, maintaining a logsheet is mandatory.

I can't say you'd ever be penalized for violating this policy if you are one of those players in a home game or solely playing with a single DM -- since the DM is the person who'd have to police you, and she may well decide it's not worth the effort -- but the requirement is not as confusing as I previously suggested.

Pauper

(Reply to #35)

Coredump00

TheBreen wrote:

(Reply to #40)

TheBreen

Coredump00 wrote:

#42

BRJN

Apr 25, 2015 11:52:23

I've got a few things on my character logsheet that I hope to use for RP and fun in the future.

Map of the River Trank - gotta be a way to make some money, drawing and selling copies to caravan masters or expedition leaders. "Dragon Lair" ought to draw attention, too.

Bag full of "GP" wooden disks - just waiting for some DM to pick my pocket.

There is also the adventure where I gained a +1 longbow, just in case anybody ever asks why I'm such a good shot.