why trap new players? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 QwertyAzerty Mar 25, 2015 8:48:45	I don't understand why the game developper are creating "reward" that screw the players and are obvious trap to the experience player, but will penalized that new player who didn't knew better. For example, in one of the expedition they offer as a reward a splintmail+1. Not only does a splintmail (heavy armor) is a very specialized item that few class can wear, but a splintmail+1 offer the same AC as a full plate. So basically the new player will be trap with a splintmail+1 and won't be allowed to roll on other items unless the group accept to give it to him while an other player could have bought a full plate and still have 0 permanant magical item. Then they put headband of intellect which can only be used by 3 class (Wizard, Elcritch knight and arcane triscker) and even those 3 class, the wizard shouldn't take it and should reach 18 Intellect at level 4 then 20 at level 20. The elcritch knight and arcnae trickster can easyly choose spell not reliant on DC making Intellect useless. Why can't they put usefull item that most group will be able to use? What next? a robe of the archmagi but evil align? so only the Lawfull Evil Zhentarim/Lord Alliance sorcerer/wiard/warlock can use? but somehow the new player will still want to take? Cursed item? giving the player the choice between keeping a cursed item or having a permanent magic item as a mundan item?
#2 Nevvur Mar 25, 2015 12:49:44	I think it would be nice if adventures awarded 1 item from a list of options, rather than a static item. Still, you're taking a very narrow view of the magic item rewards. Regarding Splint + 1 vs Plate... 1500 GP is a lot of cash. You might have that sort of gold if you've completed all the T1 Expeditions adventures. Since both suits of armor have the same AC, the comparison is this: Splint +1 means I can afford Raise Dead and healing potions, but I may get skipped on magic items because I possess one VS I'm broke, but I am eligible for the next magic item. What happens when you and another player both want the next magic item, and he wins it randomly? Now you're SOL, because you passed on the free magic splint armor and lost the random roll. The wizard might be comfortable with his 19 Int gained by the headband. He can dump 2 ASIs into dex or con instead, or get multiple feats. Or if he's multiclassing, he doesn't need to be so MAD. The cost of using the headband and not going 20 int is -1 SAB/SSD/prepared spell. In exchange you can get higher AC/INI/Dex saves, higher HP/Con saves (concentration and death important), focus on the ability score of your multiclass, or get multiple feats. The same cost-benefit applies to EK and AT. It's not cut and dry as you make it out to be.
#3 TheBreen Mar 25, 2015 11:43:53	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#4 RulesJD Mar 25, 2015 11:44:14	Magical armor isn't dissolved by oozes.
#5 Kalani Mar 25, 2015 11:46:26	RulesJD wrote:
#6 Coredump00 Mar 25, 2015 12:00:15	There is an issue with magical armor that isn't the 'top' armor. There is little reason for leather +1 instead of studded leather. The +1 Splint does save you a bunch of gold though. And it could be several levels until you get the 1.5K for the plate. I wouldn't take the Splint, but I could see others. As for the Headband.... my Paladin loves it. It gave me a +5 jump in several skills. I may end up trading it to an EK or AT, but I may just keep it. (Hard to willingly go from 'Supa-Genius' to 'My boy's a little slow' ) The beauty of 5E, is you don't have to worry about getting the exact right item...
#7 QwertyAzerty Mar 25, 2015 12:29:00	this splintmail is in a tier 2 adventure, so you are minimum level 5 therefore should be able to afford a full plate, a 1500gp is a small price to be allow roll on an item you want instead of waiting on EVERYONE to have received a magical item. Then that splinntmail +1 once the player find a full plate+1 will become a burden. Yes if I take the staff of defense, from LMoP it will become burden when I find a staff og the archmagi, but I do not expect to find a staff of the archmagi before tier 4 adventure, so my staff of defense should have a good mileage, and I expect the other player playing in a tier 4 adventure to also possess many magical item.
#8 Primarchx Mar 25, 2015 12:39:45	FWIW, no one is forcing anyone to take any magic item.
(Reply to #7) Nevvur	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #8) Cascade.rpga	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#11 Kalani Mar 25, 2015 13:26:29	I do not recall seeing plate armor in the princes of the apocalypse certificate package. Nobody knows what the Season 2 Expeditions will contain as yet (outside of the module writers/editors of course)
#12 Kalani Mar 25, 2015 13:27:51	Cascade.rpga wrote:
#13 Cascade.rpga Mar 25, 2015 13:39:46	Kalani wrote:
#14 Pauper Mar 25, 2015 13:42:15	The adventures are not reward-optimized and do not cater to those who want to optimize their rewards. This is a good thing. If you don't like it, I suggest that AL may not be the organized play experience you're looking for. -- Pauper
#15 Kalani Mar 25, 2015 13:43:22	I was not aware of that. At my store we counted the DM cents as permanent items on the log. Citation?
#16 Cascade.rpga Mar 25, 2015 13:48:44	Kalani wrote:
#17 abanathie Mar 25, 2015 13:57:34	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#18 BRJN Mar 25, 2015 14:32:02	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #7) Coredump00	QwertyAzerty wrote:
(Reply to #12) Coredump00	Kalani wrote:
#21 janosicek Mar 26, 2015 0:27:24	Re: Headband of Intellect. The moment the Wizard gets it, he can invoke the rule to modify his character, drop INT to 8 and boost DEX+CON and WIS/CHA according to his preferences. Variant Human Wizard with +3 DEX, +3 CON, +4 INT, +2 WIS and +1 CHA is not bad at all. And all that after a level 2 adventure!
(Reply to #21) Coredump00	janosicek wrote:
#23 QwertyAzerty Mar 26, 2015 5:22:03	Coredump00 wrote:
#24 janosicek Mar 26, 2015 5:53:53	Yes, but the earliest you can get your INT to 20 is Level 8. Therefore using Headband since Level 2 until you need to respec back to high INT is optimal. (I would hate my player if he did it though. My wizard is at INT 16 plus Headband, and he just reached level 5, so won't have option to respec anymore.
#25 Skerrit Mar 26, 2015 6:57:12	I think relying on an item for your main stat is dangerous. One antimagic field (possibly seen in an expedition already depending on which way you go), or a targeted dispel magic and you are pretty ineffectual at the role you are supposed to play. Now, a cleric or rogue, the headband is awesome! Or the guantlets for a melee cleric, rock on!
#26 OrganicDnD23 Mar 26, 2015 7:13:23	Lets not forget the armor also detects orcs. Which doesn't completely compensate for its un-optimization, but its fun for role-playing. If you're looking for the best magic items. Id continue to play Prince of the Apocalypse to its conclusion. The whole story is based around 4 powerful weapons, which we'll likely stumble upon.
#27 QwertyAzerty Mar 26, 2015 8:53:32	Can I play with you at your table guys? while you go around and pick up the bad item I'l be able to chery pick the good item usefull to my character without any rolls
(Reply to #27) Coredump00	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#29 imaginaryfriend Mar 26, 2015 11:04:03	QwertyAzerty wrote:
#30 Oraibi Mar 26, 2015 11:10:29	Players with tier 2 characters really shouldn't be considered as naive, inexperienced players. By the time you reach that level, you should be able to know what's good and bad about a suit of +1 splint.
#31 Avross Mar 26, 2015 15:48:07	Oraibi wrote:
#32 delroland Mar 26, 2015 16:40:47	One suggestion to address this issue: maybe have items like splint +1 still count for the permanent item count, but if you replace the item with another item of the same "slot" and permanently strike off the old item from your logsheets, your count doesn't go up. Example: you acquire splint +1 at level 2. Item count = 1. At level 8 you find full plate +1. Taking the full plate, your character discards the splint +1 (permanently crossing it off the logsheet) and takes the magic plate. Your item count remains at 1. Conversely, if your character keeps the splint +1 (to loan out to NPC's or other players, perhaps) in addition to taking the plate +1, your count would rise to 2 as normal.
#33 RCanine Mar 26, 2015 20:23:05	delroland wrote:
(Reply to #33) Ainulindalion	RCanine wrote:
#35 RCanine Mar 26, 2015 21:07:51	Ainulindalion wrote:
(Reply to #33) TheBreen	RCanine wrote:
#37 Noon Mar 26, 2015 21:43:31	Next they'll put in a cursed item that makes players look a gift horse in the mouth
(Reply to #37) TheBreen	Noon wrote:
#39 delroland Mar 27, 2015 2:39:22	RCanine wrote:
#40 RulesJD Mar 27, 2015 3:05:05	If you can attend a convention with the new item trading tables, you can turn that +1 splint mail cert into a +1 plate mail cert. Hugely useful for that, again with the caveat that you have to be able to attend one of the conventions.
#41 Kalani Mar 27, 2015 7:31:08	delroland wrote:
(Reply to #35) HermanTheWize	RCanine wrote:
#43 Ravix Mar 27, 2015 15:34:45	Nah, I don't like that. Once you get an item it stays on your log.
#44 Hibiki54 Mar 27, 2015 22:00:26	I don't understand what the OP is getting at. If a player wants an item, they have the option of taking that item as long as no one else at the table wants it. Going by your example, if you want magic armor, you can have magic armor or you can save gold and buy plate. The upside of having +1 Splint is that you don't have to shell out 1500gp for plate and certain monsters will not damage your armor. The downside is that you have a permanent magic item. But if you have it certed, you can eventually trade with someone or trade between your own characters. The upside of having plate is that you have plate armor and it didn't cost you a magic item slot. But now you're down 1500gp and a random ooze or whatever can ruin the armor. It's a scenario of choices. I don't see how it's a trap.
#45 Oraibi Mar 27, 2015 23:54:15	Also, you can let someone in your party use the +1 splint if they don't have plate to wear.
#46 Byakugan01 Mar 28, 2015 2:46:17	I gotta say I agree that the magic item distribution system is a bit scary right now. I don't have a real suggestion of how to fix it, but it really does feel pretty trappy. My 5e play experience only includes most of HotDQ so far, but I've seen the reward list for Lost Mines of Phandelver and I've read through RoT. Mines seems kinda crazy because it has more magic items than all of HotDQ and RoT combined. Which is kinda sad because most of the items are also higher quality items than the ones in Hoard, with the exception of the legendary items. I really feel relly sorry for the new guy that decided the Wand of Magic Detection was a cute thing to claim. Or the tankard of plenty, or the Spear w/Daylight charges that counts as a permanent item that isnt even +1...which is just horrible. Why didnt they just give it 1 charge/day or something? Or make it a +1 weapon...something. It is kind of like they deliberately slipped in a bunch of items to troll the newbies so that the 2-3 players that are hard-core munchkins and already read the module, and do a bad job of hiding it, can 'plan' what they wanna do with their legendary items. It is a little bit of a min-max viewpoint, but lets face it. In organized play with random people, there is ALWAYS going to be that guy that is an optimizer. Contrast with the new season's material which...starts out on the opposite foot, with a particularly strong magic item right at the beginning. The location of which is even handed out right to a specific faction. I just started DMing for a table and I am already looking at that going 'OK, that is going to blow up a lot of encounters right from the start.' But first I have to figure out how to not kill 2-3 party members instantly with the baddie that is holding it...
#47 Kalani Mar 28, 2015 8:21:36	To my knowledge, the daylight spear is a semi-permanent item (like keoghtom's ointment's). My reasoning for this is simple: Based on the spear's description, the spear does not count as magical for the purpose of bypassing resistance/immunity (if I am wrong on this detail, then the spear is a permanent item and would remain a magical spear even with no charges). The spear is simply imbued with a limited number of daylight charges, with no way of replenishing them. Unlike all other "permanent" items, this item lacks a certificate. When describing the spear, I inform the player that it functions similar to a multi-use scroll or potion, allowing you to cast daylight a specific number of times (regardless of class) before losing its magic. Assuming I am correct, once the last charge has been expended, you can cross the daylight spear off your logsheet as per the following rule. AL Magic Item FAQ Multiple use consumable items count against your current magic item tally “until” used up at which time can be removed (or crossed off) from the list.
#48 RCanine Mar 28, 2015 10:50:34	RulesJD wrote:
#49 Skerrit Mar 28, 2015 20:36:38	RCanine wrote:
#50 Kalani Mar 28, 2015 20:50:17	@Skerrit: Can you confirm whether the daylight spear is a multiple use consumable item or a permanent item. If it is a permanent item, can you confirm whether the weapon counts as magical for the purpose of bypassing resistance/immunity? The text describing this weapon is extremely brief (as indicated in the spoiler below), and the item lacks a certificate. HotDQ spoilers - Daylight Spear Location: Hunting Lodge (episode 7), Area 17 (Armory). Reference: Hoard of the Dragon Queen p68-69 Treasure: One of the rusty spears is decorated with inalid mithral (50gp), and another, named Dragongleam, is enchanted with 10 charges of a daylight spell for use in twilight or dark forest underbrush. The command phrase is "Tiamat's eyes shine", written in Draconic runes on the spear's crossguard
(Reply to #50) Coredump00	Kalani wrote:
#52 Kalani Mar 28, 2015 22:51:04	Your quote screwed up the spoiler tags (it isn't your fault, but I find that you need to re-edit quotes with spoiler tags, erase the tag and retype them for some unknown reason). As far as the text is concerned - it does not regain charges, nor does anything in its text imply that it does. Without an errata to the contrary - it is a oneshot item.
#53 Mommy_was_an_Orc Apr 03, 2015 8:37:59	Skerrit wrote:
#54 Undrhil Apr 03, 2015 10:15:12	There is no trap here. The number of permanent magical items only applies to magic items which require attunement. You can have any number of non-attuned magical items and be perfectly fine in AL. So, you pick up Splint +1. You wear it until you can afford plate. Then, you save that 1500 gp since you have Plate-equivalent AC already. Later, if Plate +1 comes up (or Splint +2 or whatever) and you happen to obtain it, then you have an extra suit of Splint +1 you can loan out during adventures or that you can keep in your museum honoring your past exploits. "Remember when that Orc tried to take off my arm and this armor's magic was the only thing that stopped it? Yeah, good times." If the armor requires attunement, then I can see somewhat of a point, but then it comes down to, as others have said before, just don't take the Splint +1. Wait for being able to buy the plate armor if that is what you want. No one is putting a crossbow to your character's head and saying "You have to take this armor!"
#55 Kalani Apr 03, 2015 16:25:37	Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you are confusing the AL rule about recording permanent items on your logsheet with the rule limiting all characters to a maximum of 3 attuned items. You record all permanent items on your log regardless of whether they require attunement or not. This includes the splint +1. The splint doesn't count against your number of attuned items, but it most definately counts for the purpose of determining whether you are eligible for a contested magic item in AL
(Reply to #55) Coredump00	Kalani wrote:
#57 Undrhil Apr 04, 2015 2:08:52	Which brings us back to: you can choose to not pick up the Splint +1. It's not a trap option if it provides a valuable service that you would not have otherwise.
#58 shivafang Apr 08, 2015 11:20:47	Skerrit wrote:
(Reply to #58) Undrhil	shivafang wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

QwertyAzerty

Mar 25, 2015 8:48:45

I don't understand why the game developper are creating "reward" that screw the players and are obvious trap to the experience player, but will penalized that new player who didn't knew better.

For example, in one of the expedition they offer as a reward a splintmail+1. Not only does a splintmail (heavy armor) is a very specialized item that few class can wear, but a splintmail+1 offer the same AC as a full plate. So basically the new player will be trap with a splintmail+1 and won't be allowed to roll on other items unless the group accept to give it to him while an other player could have bought a full plate and still have 0 permanant magical item.

Then they put headband of intellect which can only be used by 3 class (Wizard, Elcritch knight and arcane triscker) and even those 3 class, the wizard shouldn't take it and should reach 18 Intellect at level 4 then 20 at level 20. The elcritch knight and arcnae trickster can easyly choose spell not reliant on DC making Intellect useless.

Why can't they put usefull item that most group will be able to use?

What next? a robe of the archmagi but evil align? so only the Lawfull Evil Zhentarim/Lord Alliance sorcerer/wiard/warlock can use? but somehow the new player will still want to take?

Cursed item? giving the player the choice between keeping a cursed item or having a permanent magic item as a mundan item?

Nevvur

Mar 25, 2015 12:49:44

I think it would be nice if adventures awarded 1 item from a list of options, rather than a static item. Still, you're taking a very narrow view of the magic item rewards.

Regarding Splint + 1 vs Plate... 1500 GP is a lot of cash. You might have that sort of gold if you've completed all the T1 Expeditions adventures. Since both suits of armor have the same AC, the comparison is this: Splint +1 means I can afford Raise Dead and healing potions, but I may get skipped on magic items because I possess one VS I'm broke, but I am eligible for the next magic item. What happens when you and another player both want the next magic item, and he wins it randomly? Now you're SOL, because you passed on the free magic splint armor and lost the random roll.

The wizard might be comfortable with his 19 Int gained by the headband. He can dump 2 ASIs into dex or con instead, or get multiple feats. Or if he's multiclassing, he doesn't need to be so MAD. The cost of using the headband and not going 20 int is -1 SAB/SSD/prepared spell. In exchange you can get higher AC/INI/Dex saves, higher HP/Con saves (concentration and death important), focus on the ability score of your multiclass, or get multiple feats. The same cost-benefit applies to EK and AT. It's not cut and dry as you make it out to be.

TheBreen

Mar 25, 2015 11:43:53

QwertyAzerty wrote:

RulesJD

Mar 25, 2015 11:44:14

Magical armor isn't dissolved by oozes.

Kalani

Mar 25, 2015 11:46:26

RulesJD wrote:

Coredump00

Mar 25, 2015 12:00:15

There is an issue with magical armor that isn't the 'top' armor. There is little reason for leather +1 instead of studded leather. The +1 Splint does save you a bunch of gold though. And it could be several levels until you get the 1.5K for the plate. I wouldn't take the Splint, but I could see others.

As for the Headband.... my Paladin loves it. It gave me a +5 jump in several skills. I may end up trading it to an EK or AT, but I may just keep it. (Hard to willingly go from 'Supa-Genius' to 'My boy's a little slow' )

The beauty of 5E, is you don't *have* to worry about getting the exact right item...

QwertyAzerty

Mar 25, 2015 12:29:00

this splintmail is in a tier 2 adventure, so you are minimum level 5 therefore should be able to afford a full plate, a 1500gp is a small price to be allow roll on an item you want instead of waiting on EVERYONE to have received a magical item.

Then that splinntmail +1 once the player find a full plate+1 will become a burden.

Yes if I take the staff of defense, from LMoP it will become burden when I find a staff og the archmagi, but I do not expect to find a staff of the archmagi before tier 4 adventure, so my staff of defense should have a good mileage, and I expect the other player playing in a tier 4 adventure to also possess many magical item.

Primarchx

Mar 25, 2015 12:39:45

FWIW, no one is forcing anyone to take any magic item.

(Reply to #7)

Nevvur

QwertyAzerty wrote:

(Reply to #8)

Cascade.rpga

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#11

Kalani

Mar 25, 2015 13:26:29

I do not recall seeing plate armor in the princes of the apocalypse certificate package. Nobody knows what the Season 2 Expeditions will contain as yet (outside of the module writers/editors of course)

#12

Kalani

Mar 25, 2015 13:27:51

Cascade.rpga wrote:

#13

Cascade.rpga

Mar 25, 2015 13:39:46

Kalani wrote:

#14

Pauper

Mar 25, 2015 13:42:15

The adventures are not reward-optimized and do not cater to those who want to optimize their rewards.

This is a good thing.

If you don't like it, I suggest that AL may not be the organized play experience you're looking for.

Pauper

#15

Kalani

Mar 25, 2015 13:43:22

I was not aware of that. At my store we counted the DM cents as permanent items on the log.

Citation?

#16

Cascade.rpga

Mar 25, 2015 13:48:44

Kalani wrote:

#17

abanathie

Mar 25, 2015 13:57:34

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#18

BRJN

Mar 25, 2015 14:32:02

QwertyAzerty wrote:

(Reply to #7)

Coredump00

QwertyAzerty wrote:

(Reply to #12)

Coredump00

Kalani wrote:

#21

janosicek

Mar 26, 2015 0:27:24

Re: Headband of Intellect.

The moment the Wizard gets it, he can invoke the rule to modify his character, drop INT to 8 and boost DEX+CON and WIS/CHA according to his preferences.

Variant Human Wizard with +3 DEX, +3 CON, +4 INT, +2 WIS and +1 CHA is not bad at all. And all that after a level 2 adventure!

(Reply to #21)

Coredump00

janosicek wrote:

#23

QwertyAzerty

Mar 26, 2015 5:22:03

Coredump00 wrote:

#24

janosicek

Mar 26, 2015 5:53:53

Yes, but the earliest you can get your INT to 20 is Level 8. Therefore using Headband since Level 2 until you need to respec back to high INT is optimal.

(I would hate my player if he did it though. My wizard is at INT 16 plus Headband, and he just reached level 5, so won't have option to respec anymore.

#25

Skerrit

Mar 26, 2015 6:57:12

I think relying on an item for your main stat is dangerous. One antimagic field (possibly seen in an expedition already depending on which way you go), or a targeted dispel magic and you are pretty ineffectual at the role you are supposed to play. Now, a cleric or rogue, the headband is awesome! Or the guantlets for a melee cleric, rock on!

#26

OrganicDnD23

Mar 26, 2015 7:13:23

Lets not forget the armor also detects orcs. Which doesn't completely compensate for its un-optimization, but its fun for role-playing. If you're looking for the best magic items. Id continue to play Prince of the Apocalypse to its conclusion. The whole story is based around 4 powerful weapons, which we'll likely stumble upon.

#27

QwertyAzerty

Mar 26, 2015 8:53:32

Can I play with you at your table guys? while you go around and pick up the bad item I'l be able to chery pick the good item usefull to my character without any rolls

(Reply to #27)

Coredump00

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#29

imaginaryfriend

Mar 26, 2015 11:04:03

QwertyAzerty wrote:

#30

Oraibi

Mar 26, 2015 11:10:29

Players with tier 2 characters really shouldn't be considered as naive, inexperienced players. By the time you reach that level, you should be able to know what's good and bad about a suit of +1 splint.

#31

Avross

Mar 26, 2015 15:48:07

Oraibi wrote:

#32

delroland

Mar 26, 2015 16:40:47

One suggestion to address this issue: maybe have items like splint +1 still count for the permanent item count, but if you replace the item with another item of the same "slot" and permanently strike off the old item from your logsheets, your count doesn't go up.

Example: you acquire splint +1 at level 2. Item count = 1. At level 8 you find full plate +1. Taking the full plate, your character discards the splint +1 (permanently crossing it off the logsheet) and takes the magic plate. Your item count remains at 1.

Conversely, if your character keeps the splint +1 (to loan out to NPC's or other players, perhaps) in addition to taking the plate +1, your count would rise to 2 as normal.

#33

RCanine

Mar 26, 2015 20:23:05

delroland wrote:

(Reply to #33)

Ainulindalion

RCanine wrote:

#35

RCanine

Mar 26, 2015 21:07:51

Ainulindalion wrote:

(Reply to #33)

TheBreen

RCanine wrote:

#37

Noon

Mar 26, 2015 21:43:31

Next they'll put in a cursed item that makes players look a gift horse in the mouth

(Reply to #37)

TheBreen

Noon wrote:

#39

delroland

Mar 27, 2015 2:39:22

RCanine wrote:

#40

RulesJD

Mar 27, 2015 3:05:05

If you can attend a convention with the new item trading tables, you can turn that +1 splint mail cert into a +1 plate mail cert. Hugely useful for that, again with the caveat that you have to be able to attend one of the conventions.

#41

Kalani

Mar 27, 2015 7:31:08

delroland wrote:

(Reply to #35)

HermanTheWize

RCanine wrote:

#43

Ravix

Mar 27, 2015 15:34:45

Nah, I don't like that. Once you get an item it stays on your log.

#44

Hibiki54

Mar 27, 2015 22:00:26

I don't understand what the OP is getting at.

If a player wants an item, they have the option of taking that item as long as no one else at the table wants it. Going by your example, if you want magic armor, you can have magic armor or you can save gold and buy plate. The upside of having +1 Splint is that you don't have to shell out 1500gp for plate and certain monsters will not damage your armor. The downside is that you have a permanent magic item. But if you have it certed, you can eventually trade with someone or trade between your own characters. The upside of having plate is that you have plate armor and it didn't cost you a magic item slot. But now you're down 1500gp and a random ooze or whatever can ruin the armor.

It's a scenario of choices. I don't see how it's a trap.

#45

Oraibi

Mar 27, 2015 23:54:15

Also, you can let someone in your party use the +1 splint if they don't have plate to wear.

#46

Byakugan01

Mar 28, 2015 2:46:17

I gotta say I agree that the magic item distribution system is a bit scary right now. I don't have a real suggestion of how to fix it, but it really does feel pretty trappy.

My 5e play experience only includes most of HotDQ so far, but I've seen the reward list for Lost Mines of Phandelver and I've read through RoT. Mines seems kinda crazy because it has more magic items than all of HotDQ and RoT combined. Which is kinda sad because most of the items are also higher quality items than the ones in Hoard, with the exception of the legendary items.

I really feel relly sorry for the new guy that decided the Wand of Magic Detection was a cute thing to claim. Or the tankard of plenty, or the Spear w/Daylight charges that counts as a permanent item that isnt even +1...which is just horrible. Why didnt they just give it 1 charge/day or something? Or make it a +1 weapon...something. It is kind of like they deliberately slipped in a bunch of items to troll the newbies so that the 2-3 players that are hard-core munchkins and already read the module, and do a bad job of hiding it, can 'plan' what they wanna do with their legendary items. It is a little bit of a min-max viewpoint, but lets face it. In organized play with random people, there is ALWAYS going to be that guy that is an optimizer.

Contrast with the new season's material which...starts out on the opposite foot, with a particularly strong magic item right at the beginning. The location of which is even handed out right to a specific faction. I just started DMing for a table and I am already looking at that going 'OK, that is going to blow up a lot of encounters right from the start.' But first I have to figure out how to not kill 2-3 party members instantly with the baddie that is holding it...

#47

Kalani

Mar 28, 2015 8:21:36

To my knowledge, the daylight spear is a semi-permanent item (like keoghtom's ointment's).

My reasoning for this is simple:

Based on the spear's description, the spear does not count as magical for the purpose of bypassing resistance/immunity (if I am wrong on this detail, then the spear is a permanent item and would remain a magical spear even with no charges).
The spear is simply imbued with a limited number of daylight charges, with no way of replenishing them.
Unlike all other "permanent" items, this item lacks a certificate.

When describing the spear, I inform the player that it functions similar to a multi-use scroll or potion, allowing you to cast daylight a specific number of times (regardless of class) before losing its magic.

Assuming I am correct, once the last charge has been expended, you can cross the daylight spear off your logsheet as per the following rule.

AL Magic Item FAQ
Multiple use consumable items count against your current magic item tally “until” used up at which time can be removed (or crossed off) from the list.

#48

RCanine

Mar 28, 2015 10:50:34

RulesJD wrote:

#49

Skerrit

Mar 28, 2015 20:36:38

RCanine wrote:

#50

Kalani

Mar 28, 2015 20:50:17

@Skerrit: Can you confirm whether the daylight spear is a multiple use consumable item or a permanent item. If it is a permanent item, can you confirm whether the weapon counts as magical for the purpose of bypassing resistance/immunity? The text describing this weapon is extremely brief (as indicated in the spoiler below), and the item lacks a certificate.

HotDQ spoilers - Daylight Spear

Location: Hunting Lodge (episode 7), Area 17 (Armory).

Reference: Hoard of the Dragon Queen p68-69

Treasure: One of the rusty spears is decorated with inalid mithral (50gp), and another, named Dragongleam, is enchanted with 10 charges of a daylight spell for use in twilight or dark forest underbrush. The command phrase is "Tiamat's eyes shine", written in Draconic runes on the spear's crossguard

(Reply to #50)

Coredump00

Kalani wrote:

#52

Kalani

Mar 28, 2015 22:51:04

Your quote screwed up the spoiler tags (it isn't your fault, but I find that you need to re-edit quotes with spoiler tags, erase the tag and retype them for some unknown reason).

As far as the text is concerned - it does not regain charges, nor does anything in its text imply that it does. Without an errata to the contrary - it is a oneshot item.

#53

Mommy_was_an_Orc

Apr 03, 2015 8:37:59

Skerrit wrote:

#54

Undrhil

Apr 03, 2015 10:15:12

There is no trap here.

The number of permanent magical items only applies to magic items which require attunement. You can have any number of non-attuned magical items and be perfectly fine in AL.

So, you pick up Splint +1. You wear it until you can afford plate. Then, you save that 1500 gp since you have Plate-equivalent AC already.

Later, if Plate +1 comes up (or Splint +2 or whatever) and you happen to obtain it, then you have an extra suit of Splint +1 you can loan out during adventures or that you can keep in your museum honoring your past exploits. "Remember when that Orc tried to take off my arm and this armor's magic was the only thing that stopped it? Yeah, good times."

If the armor requires attunement, then I can see somewhat of a point, but then it comes down to, as others have said before, just don't take the Splint +1. Wait for being able to buy the plate armor if that is what you want. No one is putting a crossbow to your character's head and saying "You *have* to take this armor!"

#55

Kalani

Apr 03, 2015 16:25:37

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you are confusing the AL rule about recording permanent items on your logsheet with the rule limiting all characters to a maximum of 3 attuned items.

You record all permanent items on your log regardless of whether they require attunement or not. This includes the splint +1.

The splint doesn't count against your number of attuned items, but it most definately counts for the purpose of determining whether you are eligible for a contested magic item in AL

(Reply to #55)

Coredump00

Kalani wrote:

#57

Undrhil

Apr 04, 2015 2:08:52

Which brings us back to: you can choose to not pick up the Splint +1. It's not a trap option if it provides a valuable service that you would not have otherwise.

#58

shivafang

Apr 08, 2015 11:20:47

Skerrit wrote:

(Reply to #58)

Undrhil

shivafang wrote: