It's been stated that the druid is going to be a wildshaping focused class and will be a striker or defender. There will be another class of a different name (possibly Shaman) that will fill the nature caster archetype, either as a controller or a leader.
And it's been stated again and again that this has [i][u]NEVER BEEN STATED[/i][/u]. In fact, at the moment, all signs point towards a Primal Controller Druid. Proof:
12/07: Races and Classes states that Druids will have a focus on wildshaping with nature spells while in human form.
03/08: Dave Noonan posts a tease about Druids, calling them hybrids, with both wildshaping and weather related spells. (Source)
Roughly June '08: A WotC employee blogs that Druids were tried as a striker/controller hybrid, but they decided to remove one of the two aspects because the hybrid thing didn't work out. (Source lost to Gleemax's fail)
08/08: Mike Mearls states:
I know there was some talk of trying to make hybrid character classes that span two roles, but in playtests and looking at it, it was just a switch that let you go “OK, now you’re a controller”, flip a switch, and now you’re a striker. At that point, we don’t want to be in a position where the class is not as good in either role, or they’re straddling two roles and they’re just as good with them as everyone else. The trickiest thing is to say if there’s a middle ground there, and if that can ever work. At some level you’re just going to be worse than someone else filling those two roles. You don’t want to be a controller that’s sometimes a crappy striker.
Fairly obviously referring to the Druid and confirming that the Druid is no longer a hybrid character. (Source)
Present Day: With the all-but confirmation of the Warden as the Primal Defender thanks to the Minotaur article, the confirmation of the Shaman being a Primal Leader who focuses on spirit animals, the confirmation of the Barbarian as a Primal Striker, of the Sorcerer being a Arcane Controller, the Bard being an Arcane Leader, and the hints of two totally new classes, one "more spellcastery cleric" and one "different/deadly/dangerous striker guy", the Druid is the only character included in the PHB2 who could possibly be a weather-caster. In short, if there is a weather caster in the Primal power source, the only class it can be is Druid. Therefore, because I believe that there WILL be a weather caster, I state with confidence that it WILL be the Druid.
End of thread.
Barbarian: Primal Striker.
Druid: Primal Controller.
Shaman: Primal Leader.
Warden: Primal Defender.
This makes perfect sense to me. I imagine this will be THE terrain-making class, as opposed to the wizard's status effects and AoEs. Don't get me wrong, plenty of AoEs, but I'm imagining the druid changing the terrain of the battlefield quite a bit, providing concealment and the like more, blocking line of sight and perhaps line of effect more, with less overall status effects outside of slow and immobilize.
Some people want to work with crowd control but DON'T want to be a Harry Potter wannabe.
******* lol and a half.
You really think the whole deal with Wizards having some sort of object as a magical focus originates in Harry Potter?
You really think the whole deal with Wizards having some sort of object as a magical focus originates in Harry Potter?
Of course it is. Rowling is the first author to give wands to wizards. ;)
I have been quoted...awsome. But don't you guys think that the druids might get some more over the top rituals? I mean Druids are famous for rituals in the real world with stonehedge (or however you spell it). I'm guessing that most of their rituals will involve a **** load of materials and an annoyingly high nature check.
Actually Stonehenge predates the druids, by few thousand years. On that note megalithic monuments predate the druids by upwards of 5000 years. Stonehenge is believed to have been constructed sometime in the Bronze age. No one knows for sure why Stonehenge was build, although there many theories ranging from astral calendar to ceremonial gathering place, to grave sight. Furthermore all we do know about he druids is from one line in a book, the Commentarii de Bello Gallico, Caesar wrote while conquering them. Everything else is speculation.
i mean perfect in that "duh", how did you **** that up to begin with, kinda way.
******* lol and a half.
You really think the whole deal with Wizards having some sort of object as a magical focus originates in Harry Potter?
Of course not, but we're going to be overrun with these Hogwarts rejects. Sure I like the movies, but enough is enough!
I played a player created version of the druid that fulfilled both a caster and a melee striker role. I enjoyed the ability to wildshape into animals to attack, but also like the option to be a caster striker/controller. I can see how the druid [i]could[i] be given the option between wildshape striker and elemental controller, in fact I hope that is somewhat how it turns out.
Hybrid druids have already been killed by the designers(they didn't like the way the hybrid class ended up playing). So it will definatly have a leaning to one role or another. It might have some options remaining for the other choice, but it won't be to substantially larger degree than is available with any current classes.
Snip
If you're going to act high 'n mighty, at least get your facts straight. The sorcerer will be an Elemental power source character.
Seriously, if you don't know 'bout one thing, how can you hope to know about the other?
Of course not, but we're going to be overrun with these Hogwarts rejects. Sure I like the movies, but enough is enough!
I have met Wand Wizards playing 4e. I have never met any one of them who went close to Harry Potter.
Except one, but it was an awesome parody.
If you're going to act high 'n mighty, at least get your facts straight. The sorcerer will be an Elemental power source character.
Seriously, if you don't know 'bout one thing, how can you hope to know about the other?
Is this supposed to be a joke? It is typed like it is supposed to be entirely serious, but it has to be a joke.....right? Because we know that the Sorceror is Arcane. There is absolutely no way it can be Elemental(since it is going to appear in both "PHBII: Arcane, Divine, and Primal Heroes" and in "Arcane Power"). So I'm just going to go cry in the corner over the fact that I can't tell if it is a joke or not.
Don't mind me. *sulks away*If you're going to act high 'n mighty, at least get your facts straight. The sorcerer will be an Elemental power source character.
Seriously, if you don't know 'bout one thing, how can you hope to know about the other?
... do some fact checking...
If you're going to act high 'n mighty, at least get your facts straight. The sorcerer will be an Elemental power source character.
Seriously, if you don't know 'bout one thing, how can you hope to know about the other?
I'm gonna go with Ranadiel on this one...
But then again, we only have about three rock-solid pieces of evidence saying the Sorcerer is an Arcane Controller. They could all be wrong, you know.
now the martial power source is getting no mroe classes ever (hence martial power coming out first), and it has no controler and two strikers; So its not a large stretch to say the arcane source gets no defender and gets two controllers (or striker [though unlikely... since martial has two strikers]or leader)
EDIT:Ranadiel and Duskweaver are more correct than I thought, and I may be completly wrong.
(the swordmage doesn't count because its not in a 1st tier core book).
Gah! Yes it does. Why do so many people still not get that races, classes, feats and suchlike are not (mechanically) categorised into 'core' and 'setting-specific' in 4th edition? The 4th edition FR books are quite clear that you can play a drow, a genasi, a swordmage or a dark-pact warlock if you want to, even if you're not playing in the FR setting. The only thing that can stop you is if the DM decides a particular race or class or whatever is not going to be allowed in his or her campaign for whatever reason, but that is independent of what book said race or class happens to be in. Swordmages are just as much a 'core' class as wizards in 4th edition.
its arcane, not sure if its a controller... honestly we have a controller, a striker, a leader (bard, confirmed)... that leaves defender open. With the information presented in the pre-4e journals, the sorc could make a very interesting defender (the swordmage doesn't count because its not in a 1st tier core book).
now the martial power source is getting no mroe classes ever (hence martial power coming out first), and it has no controler and two strikers; So its not a large stretch to say the arcane source gets no defender and gets two controllers (or striker [though unlikely... since martial has two strikers]or leader)
Nah, it is confirmed controller as per latest info. A dev stated that the Sorcerer has the same role and power source as Wizards have -- thus, Arcane Controller.
On other news, my money is on Warden as the shape-shifting defender, Druid as the elemental-themed controller, and Shaman as the pet-having leader. And that does a nice job of slicing the 3.5 druid into equal-sized bits.
Thank you, Khift, for reposting the Mearls quote re: hybrids. I hadn't read that before, but I'm really glad they abandoned that notion. The playtest results he describes were exactly what I feared from a hybrid.
On other news, my money is on Warden as the shape-shifting defender, Druid as the elemental-themed controller, and Shaman as the pet-having leader. And that does a nice job of slicing the 3.5 druid into equal-sized bits.
Don't thank me, thank Ranadiel for doing the footwork and finding and keeping track of all these little tidbits that make up the rumor season. I'm just a guy who is crazy about druids is all.
Gah! Yes it does. Why do so many people still not get that races, classes, feats and suchlike are not (mechanically) categorised into 'core' and 'setting-specific' in 4th edition? The 4th edition FR books are quite clear that you can play a drow, a genasi, a swordmage or a dark-pact warlock if you want to, even if you're not playing in the FR setting. The only thing that can stop you is if the DM decides a particular race or class or whatever is not going to be allowed in his or her campaign for whatever reason, but that is independent of what book said race or class happens to be in. Swordmages are just as much a 'core' class as wizards in 4th edition.
well Mr. if they're so core, shall I expect extra builds and and feats in the Arcane power book? (the answer is no). I understand that they aren't campaign specific, but they are still a second tier class, in that they don't get the same amount of attention as the 1st tier classes (classes presented in a PHB).
EDIT:Ranadiel and Duskweaver are more correct than I thought, and I may be completly wrong.
well Mr. if they're so core, shall I expect extra builds and and feats in the Arcane power book? (the answer is no). I understand that they aren't campaign specific, but they are still a second tier class, in that they don't get the same amount of attention as the 1st tier classes (classes presented in a PHB).
*bops Serphet on the head* Do not go around spreading misinformation on the internet!
I'm getting really annoyed at this sort of nonsense. Swordmage will appear in Arcane Power with a chapter dedicated to it. Genasi and Drow will have racial specific feats in Martial Power(and likely all other power books as well). If you don't believe me just check here and pay special attention to Darkfire Warrior and Elemental Warrior.-=Edit: To add a bit more, here is where we got Swordmage confirmed for Arcane Power. Also there is a Genasi Paragon Pathfor Warlords in Martial Power.=-
*bops Serphet on the head* Do not go around spreading misinformation on the internet!
-=Edit: To add a bit more, here is where we got Swordmage confirmed for Arcane Power. Also there is a Genasi Paragon Pathfor Warlords in Martial Power.=-
ok wow... there are racial specific feats for those races there. I still haven't seen anything affirming Swordmage info in arcane power, but with those racial feats, there's not as much denying it now. I apologize and will edit my posts with a footer.
ok wow... there are racial specific feats for those races there. I still haven't seen anything affirming Swordmage info in arcane power, but with those racial feats, there's not as much denying it now. I apologize and will edit my posts with a footer.
The post I linked to in my edit has the catalogue entry for Arcane Power that was sent out to retailers. As one of the selling points it lists additional options for Swordmages. And within a page or two, a WotC staff member offhandedly confirms that Swordmage will be in there and that the Artificer will not be in it(because work on the Artificer started too late to make it in the book, not because the Artificer is in an Eberron book).
I'm just hoping that the Shaman and/or Warden have some animal-shifting abilities, so those who want a wild-shape druid can multiclass to that effect.
At that point, just write Shaman or Warden down on the sheet, but have your character call himself a Druid.
Just had a thought. A PHB2 epic destiny called the Great or Grand Druid.
Nah, the epic destiny has a good, oh, I'd guess 90% chance to be the classic D&D upper-echelon druid: The Hierophant.
A PHB2 epic destiny called the Great or Grand Druid.
Phantarch?
I would not be too surprised (seeing the cover of the 4e PHB2) to see the druid's nature-controlling powers to draw a strong inspiration from conjuration-like powers such as the cleric prayers "Astral Defenders", "Blade Barrier" and "Knights of Unyielding Valor" (4e PHB1, p66-67) - all powers of the cleric whom has a dash of control-ness to them. Add to that some terrain-altering offensive powers like the wizard has like "Cloud of Daggers", "Icy Terrain" and "Stinking Cloud" (4e PHB1, p159-160-161); and you could find inspirations for evocations going along the line of Faerie Fire, Entangle and Call Lightning.
The class itself I'd rather as slightly more durable than the wizard (in the same way the Barbarian is tougher than any other strikers), with access to leather armor and restricted weaponry - like the rogue and wizard have: Club, Dagger, Staff, Sickle, Sling, Shortbow (yes, shortbow - they have to hunt and eat). Powers probably won't be tied to weapons, though.
Access to implement? Definitely. I expect to see the Staff or the Rod shine here in some fashion along with the class' powers, though not as much as the wizard does.
Major ritual access ought to be given to the class. It's already something the cleric and wizard get, and traditionally, the druid ought to have no less.
Probably build options, in the same line as the warlord or warlock has. (Wizards get to choose their prefered implement, so, I bet the druids get to choose something too, not to mention they'll likely not have cantrips).
Main stats? Wisdom would probably turn up the main one, and I'd bet Dexterity and Constitution would turn up as secondary stats? Why? Well, the cover of the 4e PHB2 gave me the impression that the druid is made to fit with Shifters just like the ranger fits the elves: like a glove. Perhaps coincidentally, this would make one druid build fit the elves very well too, which would make me very happy (I don't want to contemplate the opposite).
Furthermore all we do know about he druids is from one line in a book, the Commentarii de Bello Gallico, Caesar wrote while conquering them. Everything else is speculation.
mostly right, though we have slightly more than one line from caesar, we have upwards of 5 pages, and some other commentaries about fighitng druids in england (also roman, though not from Julius Caesar)
But the general point of not knowing much about the druids, definately true, we have a couple manuscripts and all are outsiders looking in, druids themselves had no written manuscripts (or atleast none that survived)
At that point, just write Shaman or Warden down on the sheet, but have your character call himself a Druid.
sorry - I meant "wild-shape druid" as in "wild-shape weather controller". That is, elements from both classes
(seeing the cover of the 4e PHB2)
The consensus here (which may be wrong, of course) is that the female shifter on the cover of PHB2 is a shaman, not a druid. Apparently, one of the devs has said that the primal leader class (which everyone seems to agree is the shaman) summons some sort of spirit "buddy" to do her healing for her, so it seems the primal power source's summoning expert is the shaman, not the druid.
fighitng druids in england
Anglesey is not in England.
The consensus here (which may be wrong, of course) is that the female shifter on the cover of PHB2 is a shaman, not a druid. Apparently, one of the devs has said that the primal leader class (which everyone seems to agree is the shaman) summons some sort of spirit "buddy" to do her healing for her, so it seems the primal power source's summoning expert is the shaman, not the druid.
Anglesey is not in England.
its in the UK, which is almost the same thing :p
For one, I dislike the idea of druids being primarily shapeshifters. It's fun for them to be able to do that, but thematically druids are supposed to be (and by "supposed to be" I mean "by D&D precedent and assumption") nature priests. They have always held power over weather and such. This sort of flavor is difficult to combine with a focus on shapeshifting.
If the warden class takes over the role of the primary shapeshifter it will not only allow the druid to shine in a more "druidy" way, but it will also provide a class concept for the warden that makes sense. I can see wardens as essentially the shapeshifting powers of the druid extracted and turned into a full-on defender. This "fits" in my conception of D&D as much as any new class can.
its in the UK, which is almost the same thing :p
Austin, Texas, eh? That's in New York, right? It must be great to be able to see the White House from your front porch... ;)
Anglesey is not in England.
But Ainsley is…unfortunately…
Nah, the epic destiny has a good, oh, I'd guess 90% chance to be the classic D&D upper-echelon druid: The Hierophant.
Maybe, but hierophant could also end up as a paragon path. We'll see when PHB2, or Primal Powers (which I tip to appear near the end of 2009) shows up.
I really like the idea of splitting druid into two classes: druid (primal controller) and warden (primal defender), for a couple of reasons.
For one, I dislike the idea of druids being primarily shapeshifters. It's fun for them to be able to do that, but thematically druids are supposed to be (and by "supposed to be" I mean "by D&D precedent and assumption") nature priests. They have always held power over weather and such. This sort of flavor is difficult to combine with a focus on shapeshifting.
If the warden class takes over the role of the primary shapeshifter it will not only allow the druid to shine in a more "druidy" way, but it will also provide a class concept for the warden that makes sense. I can see wardens as essentially the shapeshifting powers of the druid extracted and turned into a full-on defender. This "fits" in my conception of D&D as much as any new class can.
It is looking like most of the "knowing" posters think that the Druid is doing "weather" while the Warden is kinda up in the air, the possibility of him being the shapeshifter having come up once or twice in another thread.
I think the original plan will be followed, but Wizards has surprised us before, like leaving out the gnome in the first PHB and making the Warlock a dark class. Your wish may come true.
The consensus here (which may be wrong, of course) is that the female shifter on the cover of PHB2 is a shaman, not a druid. Apparently, one of the devs has said that the primal leader class (which everyone seems to agree is the shaman) summons some sort of spirit "buddy" to do her healing for her, so it seems the primal power source's summoning expert is the shaman, not the druid.
Anglesey is not in England.
Great Britian... England... W(h?)ales..., look I'm american, how much specificity can you expect from culture-less slobs like me ;) :P
Maybe, but hierophant could also end up as a paragon path. We'll see when PHB2, or Primal Powers (which I tip to appear near the end of 2009) shows up.
The reason I say Hierophant is very likely to be the epic is simple: In D&D, the Hierophant has been the druidic parallel to the wizard's Archmage. I simply suspect that this will not change, and we will see this particular convention continue in 4E. The Hierophant has always been the top-end, uber-powerful druid in D&D, and I see no reason for them to stray, just as it made sense to make Archmage an epic wizard destiny. *shrug*
I was really hoping that druids would be the leader class simply because most of the druids my group have had are usually the nurturing, nature-loving kind. Not so big on the whole vengeance for the woods ordeal either. Which is why I still hope that the druid will be a leader class, but also I may be able to settle in if the shaman class has enough flavor to give it a druidic feel.
Shamans have historically been tribal leaders, the wisemen and women that everyone came to for advice, often the real power in a tribal setting. It makes perfect sense that shamans be Leaders.
Shamans have historically been tribal leaders
So have druids... ;)
So have druids...(been tribal leaders. ) ;)
In the T$R 2nd edition rules and the edition before it, Druids were guardians of nature, limited in numbers (Thank god that went away) and each took care of a large area. It is hard to be a leader when your by yourself.
In the T$R 2nd edition rules and the edition before it, Druids were guardians of nature, limited in numbers (Thank god that went away) and each took care of a large area. It is hard to be a leader when your by yourself.
Yes, but they are also known for a bit more than that, the protectors living out in the wilderness controlling and guarding nature, however much of that is merely steeped purely in mythology. The public consciousness is more in line with a controller, regardless of the historical reality.
Shamans, on the other hand, have the connotation of the wiseman actually living within a tribe, who knows information about everyone, knowing secret herbs and rites that heal the tribe, whom everyone comes to for advice, and so on. Leader simply seems to fit better for shaman, in my opinion.