A lot of people have tried to use Star Wars Saga as the next Modern
http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=359
There will be a D20 2.0 licence for all types of games other than D&D. Steampunk, Modern, Future, Super, etc ... Some Wotc officials have mentioned 2009 as a possibility.
I'd settle for a G.I. Joe RPG - which could tie in to the live action movie.
I'd rather not. One licensed product line is more than enough for one game company to handle, and WotC already producing one (i.e., Star Wars).
That and I'm against product licensing. WotC should flex their creative muscles and use their own brands/IPs like Dark*Matter. That way they don't need to pay the IP owners any share of their sales.
I'd rather not. One licensed product line is more than enough for one game company to handle, and WotC already producing one (i.e., Star Wars).
That and I'm against product licensing. WotC should flex their creative muscles and use their own brands/IPs like Dark*Matter. That way they don't need to pay the IP owners any share of their sales.
Fully understandable.. Really, I suggest this because then WotC can make a collectible mini game the same scale as the Star Wars minis, and I can have an army of Cobra Vipers to fight my army of stormtroopers. Darth Vader vs Destro... That would be cool to me.
However, the advantage with a G.I. Joe rpg is that Hasbro owns the rights, so getting things out and approved would possibly be easier than it is with Lucasfilm.
Fully understandable.. Really, I suggest this because then WotC can make a collectible mini game the same scale as the Star Wars minis, and I can have an army of Cobra Vipers to fight my army of stormtroopers. Darth Vader vs Destro... That would be cool to me.
A GI JOE collectible minis is more appealing to profit-seeking Hasbro suits than a RPG.
However, the advantage with a G.I. Joe rpg is that Hasbro owns the rights, so getting things out and approved would possibly be easier than it is with Lucasfilm.
Not so. As I said, parent company Hasbro owns the right like a father owns a Porsche, unless he's an idiot dad who flippantly let his child rides it without a set of ground rules laid down. I safely assume Hasbro's suits are not total idiots.
It will go through the same time-consuming set of reviews and approval process as with any IP not owned by WotC themselves. IOW, WotC won't have creative carte blanche (or discretionary power) with the IP. Not with Star Wars, and certainly not with GI JOE ... without expressed permission from respective IP owners.
Is there going to be one? I don't see it anywhere on the horizon. Please advise.
Aye, we need it. It's part of the deal. I cannot switch fully from the 3rd edition era untils certain things are brought into the new 4E world, and D20 Modern is one of them.
Aye, we need it. It's part of the deal. I cannot switch fully from the 3rd edition era untils certain things are brought into the new 4E world, and D20 Modern is one of them.
Hmm. I've never really liked D&D rulesets adjusted to modern settings. I thought that there was some inspiration in D20 Modern, but making the contemporary world look like D&D doesn't work well for me. And, as much as I love the 4E design direction for D&D, I think it might be a worse fit for Modern than D20.
Hmm. I've never really liked D&D rulesets adjusted to modern settings. I thought that there was some inspiration in D20 Modern, but making the contemporary world look like D&D doesn't work well for me. And, as much as I love the 4E design direction for D&D, I think it might be a worse fit for Modern than D20.
I dunno. They did well with Star Wars Saga Edition.
I don't think WotC would be stubborn to try to port 100% of 4e rules into a new d20 Modern game.
Of course, there are those within our community think we should. I respectfully oppose their thinking, though.
They'll know what to do when the time comes. It worked well with the original d20 Modern -- albeit they could improve on their marketing strategies -- so, I have no doubt it will work well for the new one.
I dunno. They did well with Star Wars Saga Edition.
A couple of things with this; First off, I'd consider Star Wars to be Space Fantasy, not Sci-Fi. Second, it is a very defined setting, which makes defined classes easier to incorporate.
I don't think WotC would be stubborn to try to port 100% of 4e rules into a new d20 Modern game.
Of course, there are those within our community think we should. I respectfully oppose their thinking, though.
They'll know what to do when the time comes. It worked well with the original d20 Modern -- albeit they could improve on their marketing strategies -- so, I have no doubt it will work well for the new one.
If WotC did a new modern game, I'd honestly want to see it a bit less generic and more a defined setting. As I mentioned earlier, a defined setting is easier to incorporate into a class based system such as 4e.
Now that being said, if a new d20 modern was made in a very generic way, almost classless it could be kind of cool.
Since there has not been a new product for the D20 Modern line in over a year, I fear that D20 Modern may have been abandoned just like the previous generic system.
I think this would be foolish since D20 Modern with the suppliments provides a much easier to teach system for games in the genres: Sci-Fi, Horror, Espionage, Modern Conspiracy etc.
I ran a very successful conspiracy theory type campaign using d20 modern.
In addition, the base classes (Smart Hero, Dedicated Hero, etc.) better model people in modern society. A smart hero isn't obligated to be a college professor, nor is a strong hero required to be football player. The base classes work well to model types of people, and the the prestiege classes can be added to represent occupations.
I hate to not see a new D20 Modern edition.
A couple of things with this; First off, I'd consider Star Wars to be Space Fantasy, not Sci-Fi. Second, it is a very defined setting, which makes defined classes easier to incorporate.
If WotC did a new modern game, I'd honestly want to see it a bit less generic and more a defined setting. As I mentioned earlier, a defined setting is easier to incorporate into a class based system such as 4e.
Star Wars may be Space Fantasy, but it is not as overly fantastic as D&D. Not many players want to play a Jedi with Force (the only two fantasy elements) in a Star Wars game.
If it is to be less generic, then you might as well call it d20 Modern Fantasy. But by doing so, you alienate other d20 Modern fans.
Now that being said, if a new d20 modern was made in a very generic way, almost classless it could be kind of cool.
AFAIC, the current d20 Modern rule is about as close to classless as they come.
Star Wars may be Space Fantasy, but it is not as overly fantastic as D&D. Not many players want to play a Jedi with Force (the only two fantasy elements) in a Star Wars game.
I beg to differ. Lets see what is fantastic about Star Wars:
- Sound in Space
- Lightsabres
- Blasters
- Humanoid alien races
- The Force, aka mystical powers
- Moon sized space stations that can destroy a planet with a laser
- A farm boy becoming a hero
- A princess needing to be saved
- a crazy old wizard to train the hero farm boy (Go watch star wars, Obi-Wan is actually called a wizard)
- silly plot based weaknesses (Really there's a thermal exhaust port, that you can reach from the surface, that leads DIRECTLY to the reactor?)
- Ghosts
- Monsters galore
- Chainmail bikinis
I mean really.. Star Wars is just as fantastical as D&D. Sure, no healing potions, or 'magic' items, but barring that they're both fantasy.
If it is to be less generic, then you might as well call it d20 Modern Fantasy. But by doing so, you alienate other d20 Modern fans.
Those fans that aren't getting any support right now? Yep, don't want to alienate them. Really though, the worst case scenario is those fans will come on this website and whine about it, like the 4e naysayers. 4e happened anyway, and plenty of people like it.
AFAIC, the current d20 Modern rule is about as close to classless as they come.
Except that it has classes.. Look, I'm all for class based systems in a fantasy such as D&D and Star Wars, but in a modern day setting, it just doesn't work as well IMHO.
I beg to differ. Lets see what is fantastic about Star Wars:
- Sound in Space
- Lightsabres
- Blasters
- Humanoid alien races
- The Force, aka mystical powers
- Moon sized space stations that can destroy a planet with a laser
- A farm boy becoming a hero
- A princess needing to be saved
- a crazy old wizard to train the hero farm boy (Go watch star wars, Obi-Wan is actually called a wizard)
- silly plot based weaknesses (Really there's a thermal exhaust port, that you can reach from the surface, that leads DIRECTLY to the reactor?)
- Ghosts
- Monsters galore
- Chainmail bikinis
I mean really.. Star Wars is just as fantastical as D&D. Sure, no healing potions, or 'magic' items, but barring that they're both fantasy.
Well, you seem to have a very haughty, narrow perspective when it comes to the definition of sci-fi.
Well, you seem to have a very haughty, narrow perspective when it comes to the definition of sci-fi.
One could make similar statement about your definition of fantasy.
Is there going to be one? I don't see it anywhere on the horizon. Please advise.
I know everyone is saying "NO" that there won't be a Modern D20 or equivelent - but curiously, there's still three product lines listed on Wizards front page..under Role Playing Games.
Dungeons and Dragons
Star Wars
Modern D20
One could make similar statement about your definition of fantasy.
Not narrow. I just know the distinction between fantasy (in the traditional medieval and sometimes fairy-tale fashion) and science fiction (all things futuristics, even retro-futuristics you would find in 1920's and 1930's serial films as well as Jules Verne type literature).
Now, unless it is like Dragonstar where the FTL drive is fueled by magic... the distinction can blur there.
Aye, we need it. It's part of the deal. I cannot switch fully from the 3rd edition era untils certain things are brought into the new 4E world, and D20 Modern is one of them.
Personally I think some of the 4e rules are better suited for Modern games than fantasy. Like the constantly upgrading skills. In modern times its a lot easier for people to pick up such a wide variety of skills (you can always justify it by saying its the internet) vs a quasi-medieval game (although in all fairness my D&D games tend more towards dark fantasy than heroic).
What you two are fighting over is actually the distinctions between Hard Scifi (which Star Wars is NOT, there is not a lot of Hard Scifi around much), Science Fantasy (Star Wars, Star Trek) and Medieval Fantasy (D&D).
The main thing I like about 4E is that it jettisons any semblance of grittiness, thus making itself a pure high fantasy game. Now, this also makes my inner grit gamer whine, but it's more appealing in its high fantasy aspects than 3E was. The new system cannot support something like d20 Modern as it should be.
I beg to differ. Lets see what is fantastic about Star Wars:
- Sound in Space
- Lightsabres
- Blasters
- Humanoid alien races
- The Force, aka mystical powers
- Moon sized space stations that can destroy a planet with a laser
- A farm boy becoming a hero
- A princess needing to be saved
- a crazy old wizard to train the hero farm boy (Go watch star wars, Obi-Wan is actually called a wizard)
- silly plot based weaknesses (Really there's a thermal exhaust port, that you can reach from the surface, that leads DIRECTLY to the reactor?)
- Ghosts
- Monsters galore
- Chainmail bikinis
I think you hit the nail on the head thar. That sounds like EVERY fantasy novel, video game, movie, or concept ever. That is the standard fantasy plot. Although, instead of a bad guy having a stupid weakness...its was giant space ship with a mega-death ray.
Honestly (i digress), I always loved star wars as movies, or video games, but as an RP I think it's lame at best. The universe is all about jedi or sith. Either your a jedi, sith (which is just a dark jedi) or your nothing. Yeah yeah yeah, I know they had bounty hunters and crap, but how often do those plot characters ever kill a jedi or sith...oh wait...that right....THEY DONT!
anyway...sorry about that long tangent. I am a HUGE fan of d20 modern and think wizards would be down right sony ps3 stupid :P if they let go of it. I ran/am running one of the most successful horror games (or games in general) I have ever run using a "slightly" modified d20 modern rules. All I changed to fit the theme is the hp system, added a sanity system, and made crits like 4ed...and add skill challenges. Thats it. When I run part three I plan to incorporate the skill system, and maybe the defense system.
My point is, with using a sorta 3.75 system d20 modern works great. I could easily see a complete 4th ed system working equally great, esp if they kept the generic classes. I love the generic classes almost more than I like fantasy class honestly....so...yeah.
The main thing I like about 4E is that it jettisons any semblance of grittiness, thus making itself a pure high fantasy game. Now, this also makes my inner grit gamer whine, but it's more appealing in its high fantasy aspects than 3E was. The new system cannot support something like d20 Modern as it should be.
Why not? I'm currently in the process of converting MCWoD (admittedly not the same, but it is based off the d20 modern rules) to 4e and it is working out great. I think 4e actually works better for that system than 3.5 did.
The feeling of grittiness can be recaptured just as long as they keep the core system without doing a copy/paste/rename of the powers and class features (if they even keep classes, it has already been mentioned by the devs that 4e can easily become a classless system, and I think that would be even easier with a modern version).
Ew. Just ew. I liked the d20 Modern system better than the DnD system because it felt more realistic to me (relatively speaking, of course). It was still a bit cinematic and a bit munchkin-y, but it was better, to my voyeur-masochistic mind, than the generally high fantasy game of DnD.
I try not to use/apply the "R" word when it comes to RPG. If I place too much value on realism over plausibility, I'd rather play a simulation game.
I've always felt that grittiness is more a function of storytelling and overall atmosphere, and has nothing to do with actual system mechanics. I really, I can't stress enough, really want a 4E take on modern.
What makes 4e rules more attractive than Star Wars Saga rules for Modern rules development?
Mind you, d20 Modern is and should be its own take on the new rules.
I am all for a D20 Modern using the better skill, class, feat, and healing systems of 4e, but I think that Powers are where 4e and Modern would collide. Perhaps, as stated, Modern would have its own take on this, but like I said, I don't feel that Modern will benefit from the Powers system as much as D&D does.
I was just thinking the same thing. Powers are believable in a D&D setting. In a modern setting I'm afraid it would just feel weird. It might work if they include magic, but I don't like much magic in my Modern/Future games. Just imagine the screams of "Anime!" then.
They did well with Star Wars Saga Edition.
Agreed... in fact, i would love to see a character builder/visualizer/gaming table like they are doing for D&D Insider for Star Wars Saga... I am having a hard time finding people to play Saga with...
If 4E was going to be modified for D20 Modern, they'd have to do a fair bit of work to bring back some of the old grittiness, IMO. Someone's already mentioned it - and I agree - that 4E has pretty much ditched all the grittiness that was part of D20 Modern. They'd need to bring it back...
I've always felt that grittiness is more a function of storytelling and overall atmosphere, and has nothing to do with actual system mechanics. I really, I can't stress enough, really want a 4E take on modern.
I don't think a game's feel can be divorced from its mechanics. The former is very much a product of the latter, and in more ways than you might suspect. A change in mechanics can lead to a change in the way the entire game world works.
Case in point: the mechanics for Vampire: the Masquerade were such that, for instance, a Ventrue Prince could turn on his Majesty power and force willpower checks on anyone within range to avoid being overcome with awe. But then some genius decided to "translate" the World of Darkness to GURPS, and suddenly all vampire disciplines became Skills requiring Skill Rolls. That same Ventrue Prince had to make a successful Majesty skill roll before the power even became activated. The Ventrue Clan in the WoD would not have come to dominate the Kindred political power structure if the powers that put them there could fail to even activate.
4E D&D is no different in this respect. Changes to the core mechanics could yield fundamental changes to the nature of outcomes or the way abilities are used, and it probably wouldn't be difficult to list a hundred game-world elements that would be profoundly different as a result.
I don't think a game's feel can be divorced from its mechanics. The former is very much a product of the latter, and in more ways than you might suspect. A change in mechanics can lead to a change in the way the entire game world works.
Case in point: the mechanics for Vampire: the Masquerade were such that, for instance, a Ventrue Prince could turn on his Majesty power and force willpower checks on anyone within range to avoid being overcome with awe. But then some genius decided to "translate" the World of Darkness to GURPS, and suddenly all vampire disciplines became Skills requiring Skill Rolls. That same Ventrue Prince had to make a successful Majesty skill roll before the power even became activated. The Ventrue Clan in the WoD would not have come to dominate the Kindred political power structure if the powers that put them there could fail to even activate.
4E D&D is no different in this respect. Changes to the core mechanics could yield fundamental changes to the nature of outcomes or the way abilities are used, and it probably wouldn't be difficult to list a hundred game-world elements that would be profoundly different as a result.
Excellent points, Zslane. It will be interesting to see if, in the "reboot" of the various D&D worlds (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc) if high-level spellcasters remain dominant (the Mordenkainens, Elminsters and Raistlins) or if they now share power more equally with warlords and the like.
Since a big part of 4E was making the classes more balanced at higher levels (I haven't played to high level, so I don't know if this actually pans out), I'll be curious if we see "less Faerun, more Xena" when it comes to high-level campaigns.
Perhaps we see before G.I.Joe collectible miniatures game, and Transformers cmg. I suspect we will see someday Marvel Superheroes d20 rpg (Marvel and Hasbro have agremeent).
I would like the return of settings from d20 Past (age of adventurers, shadow stalker and pulp heroes) and Atomic Risen from d20 Apocalypsis.....
Urban Arcana could be a good TV show if the stories are well written.
Rock and Roll:
The player can switch his weapon to full auto. It then reverts back to semi-auto and the selector is stuck there until he spends 6 hours sleeping.
1st Level Soldier Daily power:
Rock and Roll:
The player can switch his weapon to full auto. It then reverts back to semi-auto and the selector is stuck there until he spends 6 hours sleeping.
ROTFLOL!
We will see d20 Modern 2.0. but... it will need a lot of playtesting.
So... you want it on sale no earlier than 2012?
1st Level Soldier Daily power:
Rock and Roll:
The player can switch his weapon to full auto. It then reverts back to semi-auto and the selector is stuck there until he spends 6 hours sleeping.
You mean, "Lock n' Load, Rock n' Roll."