However, I'm thinking 4th edition would lend it self exceptionally well to a videogame version. All previous DnD games have had games, from the psudo-realtime Neverwinter Nights / Baldurs gate on the PC, to the turn based DnD Tactics on the PSP. (Of course, going all the way back to the old turn based games like Dark Queen of Krynn and Pool of Radiance).
So, anyone hear anything about a prospective video game for 4th edition? I personally think that would be awesome.
There have been a few discussions on the subject. They often turn into arguments about the merits of turn-based versus real-time game engines. The general consensus seems to be that it would be a bad idea to put 4e in a video games format.
fix'd
As far as a turn based, that would be cool, have not seen one of those in a while.
Not to sound offensive here, but wouldn't WoW be considered the real time version?
wow is no more a version of dnd as any other video game where the character you play kills things and takes their stuff without any cohesive plot or character development. so no.
Realtime games have to 'translate' some rules usually to get them to work, but 4e seems to me like it would not need any of that for turn based game.
In any case, I'd hope that a 4e DnD game wouldn't be an MMO. While I understand the appeal of MMOs to a lot of people, I'd MUCH rather make and create my own party, and play through some well written story and dungeons, etc, without having to worry about grinding/farming/etc. (or the plethora of annoying people online ruining the fun or breaking the immersion).
Ok. Now that I got that outta my system. I was thinking about which parts of the rules system would translate to a real-time game a la Neverwinter Nights (2).
The first thing that comes to mind is that the various powers with push, pull, and slide as they pertain to enemies and allies, would be difficult to implement as a player option. Many of these could be done automatically. However, the problem comes in when it would be a strategic advantage to push, pull, or slide an enemy/ally to a certain square or not move them at all. I've got thoughts on how I'd handle this particular facet. I'd like to see what others have to say on the matter.
Also, if you see a particular part of the rules system that would be seemingly difficult to translate to a real-time CRPG, I'd like to get thoughts on those too.
In any case, I'd hope that a 4e DnD game wouldn't be an MMO. While I understand the appeal of MMOs to a lot of people, I'd MUCH rather make and create my own party, and play through some well written story and dungeons, etc, without having to worry about grinding/farming/etc. (or the plethora of annoying people online ruining the fun or breaking the immersion).
Agree completely...
MMOs are great...except for all the juveniles that hang out and ruin things for everyone else!
Something with a LAN co-op ability without forcing strangers on you...
That would rock!
Anywho, I would love a turn-based 4.0. But you know what would be more fun? A Dungeon Master simulator!
The first thing that comes to mind is that the various powers with push, pull, and slide as they pertain to enemies and allies, would be difficult to implement as a player option. Many of these could be done automatically. However, the problem comes in when it would be a strategic advantage to push, pull, or slide an enemy/ally to a certain square or not move them at all. I've got thoughts on how I'd handle this particular facet. I'd like to see what others have to say on the matter.
Made me think, off the top of my head, I would say to make them tactically, viable, you might have to exaggerate the distances, and/or cause some small (like 1/2 to 1 second) stun at the end, or something like that. Also obviously not make the forced movement instant, make it take a few seconds for the movement to finish.
But I think a 4E video game could be viable in either real-time or turn-based systems, its all in how you make the game.
Question. If they made a turn based version of 4E would you like it to work in a grid, or would you prefer squares were translated to 5 feet allowing for more radial movement (with blasts/bursts being cones and circles and so on). I think I would prefer the latter (I understand why I'd simplify 1:2:1 movement in PnP version but if the machine does all the work, then why not).
Definitely a grid, though the grid needn't be visible all the time. And it absolutely can NOT be real-time combat.
Similar to FF Tactics, I guess. I think if they can get immediate interrupts and reactions done properly, they can get it all done properly.
" beginning" races.
make it a game where every playable race is involved, shadar-kai to gnolls and minotaurs, warforged to shifters, and the basic elves, dwarves and the like. if you have a write up for it, make it happen.
also i cannot stress how much they shouldn't allow for "player made stuff" . On neverwinter i've been on every server from anchor deep to prisoners of the mist and theres not a single server game that was worth my time. so invest in the main game and leave out the player optional dungeon making out, take that money and throw it into the system.
also i cannot stress how much they shouldn't allow for "player made stuff" . On neverwinter i've been on every server from anchor deep to prisoners of the mist and theres not a single server game that was worth my time. so invest in the main game and leave out the player optional dungeon making out, take that money and throw it into the system.
And yet for Baldur's Gate 2, there were reams and reams of excellent player-produced content. The problem isn't player creation, it's that NWN just wasn't a great game. It was a decent player-content creation system with a mediocre to decent game layered on top, whereas BG2 was an excellent game with a crappy content creation system underneath.
The moral of the story is not that player content is inherently bad, but that it's best to make a good game first and then expose content generation ability to let players add to that good thing.
Also, D&D Tactics was a travesty all around. I don't think I have ever been quite so angry about spending money on a game as I got with that one.
NWN was released pretty much a year before 3.5 and was likely hastily updated from 2e to 3e. And it took 3 years for Obsidian to make NWN2. If any company started on a 4e game when the edition was released it would likely be 2012 before it hit stores.
There'd be a good chance D&D would be switching to 5e by the time a developer could finish a 4e game.
As to the development cycle of the game. If a developer had a sufficient budget and started now, they could roll a great game out somewhere between the last quarter of 2010 and the last quarter of 2011, depending on the type of game. A Baldur's Gate/Planescape-style of game would take less time and a Neverwinter Nights-style game would take more time.
A 4E game could most certainly be a real-time game with approximately 85-90% rules fidelity.
Similar to FF Tactics, I guess. I think if they can get immediate interrupts and reactions done properly, they can get it all done properly.
FF Tactics had reactions worked out fine, considering it was an entire section of abilities for your character. It also had an interrupt in Hamedo/First Strike. So it would only be a matter of giving the player a choice on what ability to use at those times.
In response to ravenharm's comment, I agree that they should include more races than just the PHB1 races, the Player's Handbook 2 races should also be available for play. But I completely disagree with including EVERY race, i.e. minotaurs, shadar-kai, etc. It's just way too much to include. That would be an extra twenty races on top of the base 13, and most of those twenty don't even have their own feats, let alone racial paragon paths, etc.
Which raises another question. How would they decide which paragon paths to allow? Or even Epic Destinies, for that matter? Would material from the Martial/Arcane/Yourmom Power books be included? Hmm. I'm realizing that a 4e game raises far more questions than I'd considered before.
I don't see how in any way a real-time version would be preferable to turn-based. Why spend months screwing around to try and make the mechanics fit a format they weren't intended for, when it would be much simpler to just make it, you know, work the same way as in the books. Turn based.
In response to ravenharm's comment, I agree that they should include more races than just the PHB1 races, the Player's Handbook 2 races should also be available for play. But I completely disagree with including EVERY race, i.e. minotaurs, shadar-kai, etc. It's just way too much to include. That would be an extra twenty races on top of the base 13, and most of those twenty don't even have their own feats, let alone racial paragon paths, etc.
Which raises another question. How would they decide which paragon paths to allow? Or even Epic Destinies, for that matter? Would material from the Martial/Arcane/Yourmom Power books be included? Hmm. I'm realizing that a 4e game raises far more questions than I'd considered before.
Allow them all, and if it's a PC game, whenever a new book comes out, patch the game.
Allow them all, and if it's a PC game, whenever a new book comes out, patch the game.
You've got a point with the patches, I hadn't thought of that. But I sustain my opposition to including every damned monster with a racial entry in the Monster Manual. Or Monster Manual 2, if it has some of those too. Here's hoping it doesn't. >.>
Though it'll probably be a console game. So they can make you pay for DLC! Hahaha
You've got a point with the patches, I hadn't thought of that. But I sustain my opposition to including every damned monster with a racial entry in the Monster Manual. Or Monster Manual 2, if it has some of those too. Here's hoping it doesn't. >.>
Though it'll probably be a console game. So they can make you pay for DLC! Hahaha
It's also a fair whack easier to design for console I hear, since every player has that specific system and settings are within a much smaller range.
Paying for DLC would bother me, however, but probably only because I'm not used to it. They've already given me a game after all, they gain nothing by updating it unless they charge for it.
The thing I would be concerned about is character background. I think there should be optional backgrounds that are released every month to give the player some degree in choice of his/her history. Downloadable content most likely.
english isn't my first language and i don't think i have the capabilities to properly engage why i think 4th would make an excellent "real time" game, though i wish it were otherwise. i truly with i could just let everyone see what i see when i think of it, when i see it in my head =[
truthfully the race i was intrested in playing was the shadar-kai, but i figured why stop there? i have never seen a dnd game that included so much variaty except- erm never mind. =] ( almost did it again)
yes it would be a monster project. paragon paths, epic paths, races, classes, but im only referring to the playable races that got writeups. so far its warforged, gnolls, minotaurs, shadar-kai, dhampir, and i can't think of any others
so players handbook 1-2 plus the "play as" writups wouldn't be every monster manual. not as big of a project as initially thought?but two ideas i would like to bring up for them to try. while im still sticking to how cool it would for them to include as many playable races as they can, it doesn't have to be all at once. as one person already mentioned annual patches and updates would work fine.
My biggest question at this point, is how long would this game be? Would there be branching storylines based on your decisions? How many different paths could you head down? The possibilities are endless, but the development funds probably are not. Hahaha
allow for one henchmen, for each advenutre that you can cycle out at the city. imagine the antics of leveling with splug from keep of the shadowfell, or the satyr from the pyramid of shadows?
4-5 man party similar to nwn2. nwn2 after the updates and i hardly ever paused to adjust the AI. (did it again, brought up another game lol )
(did it again, brought up another game lol )
How dare you!?!? You are hereby banished from the thread!
Or y'know, not.
Personally, I think 4e would lend itself extremely well to a turn-based, grid battle type game. (like a 'tactics' game. the 3.5 DnD tactics game for the PSP had a lot of flaws, though, so they'd have to do it right).
Realtime games have to 'translate' some rules usually to get them to work, but 4e seems to me like it would not need any of that for turn based game.
I agree. The pushing, pulling and "control" effects would be easy to implement in a Strategy tactics game.
That being said, I would enjoy a turn based game grid game far more than a real time. FF tactics remains one of my favorite RPGs to this day for both the game play and the plot.
Also, I can see an amalgamation of the two. A real-time game at all other times, that shifts to a turn-based game during combat, with the option for players to turn on or off a battle grid.
Personally, I think 4e would lend itself extremely well to a turn-based, grid battle type game. (like a 'tactics' game. the 3.5 DnD tactics game for the PSP had a lot of flaws, though, so they'd have to do it right).
Realtime games have to 'translate' some rules usually to get them to work, but 4e seems to me like it would not need any of that for turn based game.
In any case, I'd hope that a 4e DnD game wouldn't be an MMO. While I understand the appeal of MMOs to a lot of people, I'd MUCH rather make and create my own party, and play through some well written story and dungeons, etc, without having to worry about grinding/farming/etc. (or the plethora of annoying people online ruining the fun or breaking the immersion).
At the last Gencon, the makers of the D&D MMO had said they was adapting the rules for the game to be a hybrid of 3.5 and 4th edition, with the skills being combined as an example. They also indicated that a new MMO based on D&D is not forthcoming.
The problem with making a 4e video game is that video games are taking an increasingly long time to make and develop.
NWN was released pretty much a year before 3.5 and was likely hastily updated from 2e to 3e. And it took 3 years for Obsidian to make NWN2. If any company started on a 4e game when the edition was released it would likely be 2012 before it hit stores.
There'd be a good chance D&D would be switching to 5e by the time a developer could finish a 4e game.
5th edition is a long way off. This new edition is gonna hold up a lot better than the previous one did, and won't (darn it) have a .5 version. Though there are things that could have been done better (rather than cloned from SaGa), the system as a whole works well, and is more cohesive.
Even if it took 3 years to make the game, it would be worth it, and 4th edition isn't going anywhere. Keep in mind, the previous edition wasn't dead, like second edition was, and the change over was needed because of the glut of useless PrC's and ineffective classes. The Book of Nine Swords attempted to "fix" some problems, and only made others come to light. Test it may have been, I tend to think it was a wake up call.
The next game will most likely be from the Eberron Setting and might make use if a 3d graphics engine like Unreal or Lithtech to speed up development. It will also most likely be a console release, third person one player with PvP online play, and will be forgotten six months after release. (specially if it comes out on the dying Xbox)
I could see it going either real time or turn based with a grid. Real time I think you'd have to build in specific points where the battle stops while you decide where to push/pull someone or if there's an interrupt.
If the game is going to stop everytime someone uses a push/pull, I don't see why you would even use realtime in the first place.
i'll try to explain how i see this game if it were a real time, having no other choice then to use some popular games that simulate effects, sorry.
commanders strike comes up often as one of the main reasons it could never be done. the way i see it if your next to a fighter and the enemy you would click on the fighter, and use commanders strike on a toolbar at the bottom. it will look like he swung twice, but the game would have a "action bar" at the top similar to never winter nights 2 shwoing players whats really going on
for pull push and slide the real time game would be distance based, not grid based. flanks, bursts and the like would act as a circular halo effect to apply when you click them. when you click the action for pull push and slide, you use the numberical part of the key pad to finish the action effectivly pulling and pushing them exactly where you want them to be.
teleporting can be done in one of two ways, either "plotted" where you click the teleport button then use the numbers on top to pick distance squares away, and for those times when teleporting is reactionary, it is a set number away, set by the parameters that a player would use, such as a shadar kai who uses the feat that lets him jaunt to the marked target, the parameter there is to jaunt towards that target, or an eladrin that has a reactionary teleport away from target could set the number of of distance squares away long before getting into battle.
1. Make it turn-based
Yes, turn-based is old retro-style and so not today's fashion as compared to real time. But it is the right thing to do to properly catch the spirit of this edition. While it is combat driven perhaps even more so than previous versions, it is also most tactics heavy and I'd like to take my time planning my moves and making proper decisions.
2. Don't include hordes of pushover minions
The minion as a type of enemy is fine, no worries here. I'm more concerned about wasting time slashing and hacking my way through senseless waves of orcs, zombies or whatnot which are neither a challenge nor worth any XP as not to screw up player advancement in compliance with the storyline. I am aware that you have to fill time between climatic encounters and rack up some hours played till end of the game but there has to be a clever way to do it.
3. Don't have us running errands through huge cities
This is part two of 'how can I add game time without too much design effort'. Why is it, we have to run from district A to district B in every significant settlement just to rejoin brothers or find missing tools and similar stuff? (The answer is of course, because thousands of pushover minions are roaming the streets.) Running errands in cities and the like is adding game time with nothing to do actually except looking at the lead graphic-artist's design for streets and buildings which is a show-off with late video technology without actually adding much to fun or gaming experience. Do it different, do it better. Give us a stunning video introduction of the place, atmoshpheric music and then a simple screen to visit the location's most important places with a single click and no time-wasting running around endless streets. I'm sure you can find your dozens of sub-quests anyway.
That's my dearest whishes which I'm fairly certain, will echo through the emptyness of state-of-the-art design in vain. But it feels good to have them out of my mind anyway. So feel free to comment or just move along... ;)
5th edition is a long way off. This new edition is gonna hold up a lot better than the previous one did, and won't (darn it) have a .5 version. Though there are things that could have been done better (rather than cloned from SaGa), the system as a whole works well, and is more cohesive.
Even if it took 3 years to make the game, it would be worth it, and 4th edition isn't going anywhere. Keep in mind, the previous edition wasn't dead, like second edition was, and the change over was needed because of the glut of useless PrC's and ineffective classes. The Book of Nine Swords attempted to "fix" some problems, and only made others come to light. Test it may have been, I tend to think it was a wake up call.
I disagree.
The time between editions in the gaming industry has been shrinking for a while. There seems to only be a couple years between release and starting to plan and experiment for the next edition.
4e seems to have a built-in end date. There's enough power sources for 4 PHBs and enough types of dragons for 4 Draconomicons/ Monster Manuals and planes for 4 expansions (the Plane Below, feywild, shadowfell, astral).
After 2011 we'll probably have a year of options and experiments then 5e in 2013.
That's IF they don't release an Advanced D&D that's more a low-magic, non-cinematic, reality simulator for all the people who don't like 4e in a couple years.
Meanwhile, the time it takes to develop a brand new game that's not a sequel (aka using half the code and graphics of the original) is getting exponentially longer as computer power and expected quality increases. You CAN make a game from scratch quickly if you have the money to throw waves and waves of programmers at it, but that's the kind of studio that's unlikely to licence a property and simply make their own.
Studios that licence existing properties are generally smaller who are using existing fame to springboard themselves to better sales and likely don't have an army of people waiting to develop the game.
Anyway, it's probably Kuju Entertainment (makers of "D&D Tactics", the game released in Aug 2007 probably a week prior to 4e being announced) that still has the licence.
The other alternative is a game that was planned for 3e and hastily upgraded to 4e like "Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor".
It is my belief that Wizard's will keep with this edition for as long as possible. A new 5th edition, if worked on and designed now, would be a further step into returning to the roots of D&D, to the point of going back to far. Better to see it from a future perspective, like eight years from now, rather then speculate now. 4th edition will still be around in 2012. Also keep in mind that DDi would not transition in the edition changeover, but have a new version DDi5, which would be a completely separate service than the old DDi.
My point of buy a license for 3d engines like Unreal or Lithtech was about how to shorten the time of development. Not having to worry about programming the graphical interface goes a long way toward working on the number crunching and art. I also have hoped that Bioware would be involved somehow with the next game, which would help in the developing time.
Any game made for 3.5 would need a complete overhaul and might take just as long to adapt as it would to make a new game.
Question being, can you manipulate these "special interfaces" for teleports, pushes, and AOEs while taking the rest of your rounds actions in less than 6 seconds- to the level of nuace you'd be able to achieve in a turn-base system? Pretty much no. Playing MMOs I can tell you ground targeted spells are a huge pain- especially in the Warcraft/Everquest back camera view instead of an overhead view that older ones had. Being real time would effectively make those powers weaker due to their lost granularity of control and extra time needed- unbalancing the game.
i disagree, if the game was (world of warcraft) style, then it might look to be a hard thing to accomplish but i know of mages on that game that take teleport, feather fall and all the move based spells to such a degree that they make it art. and there are others who get themselves into bigger trouble.
it might be easier to make it a viewpoint similar to baldurs gate/diablo it would make it much easier to figure out. and those styles of play are becoming popular again.
I'm pretty certain that there is a 4E DnD pc game in the making somewhere in the world. So behold the good Countess Kathleen's personal top three whish list for future RPGs:
1. Make it turn-based
Yes, turn-based is old retro-style and so not today's fashion as compared to real time. But it is the right thing to do to properly catch the spirit of this edition. While it is combat driven perhaps even more so than previous versions, it is also most tactics heavy and I'd like to take my time planning my moves and making proper decisions.
2. Don't include hordes of pushover minions
The minion as a type of enemy is fine, no worries here. I'm more concerned about wasting time slashing and hacking my way through senseless waves of orcs, zombies or whatnot which are neither a challenge nor worth any XP as not to screw up player advancement in compliance with the storyline. I am aware that you have to fill time between climatic encounters and rack up some hours played till end of the game but there has to be a clever way to do it.
3. Don't have us running errands through huge cities
This is part two of 'how can I add game time without too much design effort'. Why is it, we have to run from district A to district B in every significant settlement just to rejoin brothers or find missing tools and similar stuff? (The answer is of course, because thousands of pushover minions are roaming the streets.) Running errands in cities and the like is adding game time with nothing to do actually except looking at the lead graphic-artist's design for streets and buildings which is a show-off with late video technology without actually adding much to fun or gaming experience. Do it different, do it better. Give us a stunning video introduction of the place, atmoshpheric music and then a simple screen to visit the location's most important places with a single click and no time-wasting running around endless streets. I'm sure you can find your dozens of sub-quests anyway.
That's my dearest whishes which I'm fairly certain, will echo through the emptyness of state-of-the-art design in vain. But it feels good to have them out of my mind anyway. So feel free to comment or just move along... ;)
and... i pretty much disagree with all of that.
i disagree, if the game was (world of warcraft) style, then it might look to be a hard thing to accomplish but i know of mages on that game that take teleport, feather fall and all the move based spells to such a degree that they make it art. and there are others who get themselves into bigger trouble.
it might be easier to make it a viewpoint similar to baldurs gate/diablo it would make it much easier to figure out. and those styles of play are becoming popular again.
Hehe, you don't play enough enough Warcraft if you haven't heard mages complaining about their blink spell (it's fix ranged, always forward, and can't change "floors" to cross gaps or anything, sometimes makes you fall into a void). The only other "move spells" are knockback effects which you can't control their distance either (and only push) and Death grip which pulls next to you. This also completely discounts how you'd move an ALLY with Warlord/Bard powers without conflicting with the movements the ally is entering themselves.
Hehe, you don't play enough enough Warcraft if you haven't heard mages complaining about their blink spell (it's fix ranged, always forward, and can't change "floors" to cross gaps or anything, sometimes makes you fall into a void). The only other "move spells" are knockback effects which you can't control their distance either (and only push) and Death grip which pulls next to you. This also completely discounts how you'd move an ALLY with Warlord/Bard powers without conflicting with the movements the ally is entering themselves.
moving an ally is simple, it would work as a blink spell, one moment your there another your switched, with a two second interval to compensate a player to align himself with the new placement. i mentioned gameplay similar to nwn2 in that theres icons atop of the screen that let you know when your turn is vs mobs, this would allow for interuppts and immediate actions.
as far as i playing warcraft, i played from 2004-2007 just a little bit into burning crusade. i wasn't an elite player by any means but i happened to irl friends with some of the best, they used mages and they were gods. they knew by eye how to blink and when to blink. the way i explained it previously isn't the rushed game of world of warcraft, but more of never winter nights two. its more of a tactical real time with what is my opinion as some of the best gameplay for dnd.
now for your benefit i don't think the game should play as fast paced as world of warcraft, in such a case your right most leader classes wouldn't have time to accomplish as much as they possibly could. im only talking about real time because im thinking of this game as a multiplatfrom, those don't translate well on consoles as well as they do pcs, the best example of that is dnd tactics.
Anyone with even the slightest modicum of design sense can look at 4e and say It's all but designed to be a video game.
And anyone with a real modicum of design sense would know that you're wrong and God just killed a kitten
The game table is coming, anything else would either have to subvert the rules and fail as an adaption (but not necissarily fail as a game), or be turn based and solo and a bit sad for you to be playing on your lonesome when you could actually be playing the game properly with other people.
I would like to make one clarification, though. Moving each in a 4-6 character *individualy* when NOT part of a combat is BAD. They did that in the PSP 3.5 game, and it made it super annoying to play. I think you should walk around exploring, in the city, etc, with one 'avatar' character, then when an encounter happens, have a little 'deployment zone' as it starts (or specific positions if it's a dramaic event, like having the party split on either side as they ambush the bad guys, etc..). Another thing the PSP game did wrong (linked to this) was requiring you to get the treaure boxes and search bodies while in the encounter. That should be an *option* if you want, but you should also be able to loot after the encounter without it automatically moving you to the next area/scenario. (again, this would be solved if we used that method of 'walking about with one character (realtime) during exploration and travel, but flipping to all characters, turnbased, when an encounter occurs).
I envision something along the lines of the maligned D&D Tactics for PSP (with the issues resolved as addressed by the above poster) but for PC. Build a group of characters similar to the Character builder but then be able to take them into fan made turn based modules. The graphics could be as primitive as RPG.net and use counter based graphics (similar to Fierydragon's offerings).
I would be more concerned with gameplay versus graphics...like a Roguelike game...keep the graphics simple but follow the ruleset which seems like it would cater extremely well to turn based tactics style.
besides a "final fantasy" styled game where visuals and cinimatics immerse one into the feel and the flow of the game, DnD games have never really been cutting edge in visual since the infinity engine in baldurs gate/torment/icewind dale. neverwinter made up for the lack of visuals with exceedingly good gameplay using skills/feats/ and real time stratagy to the limits of the 3.0 system.
neverwinter2 had its own visual style that i appreciate, but it certainly wasn't "pretty."
(some stuff...) neverwinter made up for the lack of visuals with exceedingly good gameplay using skills/feats/ and real time stratagy to the limits of the 3.0 system.
neverwinter2 had its own visual style that i appreciate, but it certainly wasn't "pretty."
Now I know this isn't productive, but you really should put warning labels on these things. It's the middle of the night right now and people are trying to sleep and here you are making me laugh half to death.
I'm firmly on the turn-based or go home side of the fence since playing NWN, but I suppose anything is possible when we haven't even gotten a work in progress announcement. I just don't want to see another mockery of D&D spit out for public consumption.
Now I know this isn't productive, but you really should put warning labels on these things. It's the middle of the night right now and people are trying to sleep and here you are making me laugh half to death.
I'm firmly on the turn-based or go home side of the fence since playing NWN, but I suppose anything is possible when we haven't even gotten a work in progress announcement. I just don't want to see another mockery of D&D spit out for public consumption.
warning label? gotcha. :D
WARNING: pompous, opinionated, others who may have not seen the sales/fan base/popularity of never winter nights, may be inclined to vehemently disagree with a real time game while reading forums at night to cause restless and sleepless nights due to uproarious laughter.
hows that?
you are entitled to your opinion. i don't respect it, but i acknowledge it as one of many voices who push for turn based, slow bore, pc game/ console game.
Also, I'd like to see it have tools to build modules for community use. It would also need to have a strong multi-player facet with the ability for a DM to run sessions a la tabletop games.
I was playing Valkyria Chronicles on my ps3 and realized that it had what i feel to be an excellent encounter level tactical engine that could work very well with 4E.
Mechanically I am fine with either real-time or turn-based. Though I do like a little bit of "twitch" in my games, even RPGs. Stuff like Witcher, AoC, Mass Effect, etc. I could see if it was real-time doing some movement and such being based on position (angle your character how you wish the enemy to move for example), or immediate interrupts to have a quick timer pop up when usable and have to decide to use it or not, etc.
I am also fine with either full-party or single-PC game. Really, lol, I am fine with just about anything as long as they keep true to the spirit and the fair majority of 4e rules.
You know going beyond mechanics one thing that be interesting is a different visual feel. Games today can cover a whole gambit of different visual styles so be interesting to see what a CRPG and specifically a D&D one be like in a different style then they normally adopt.
Mechanically I am fine with either real-time or turn-based. Though I do like a little bit of "twitch" in my games, even RPGs. Stuff like Witcher, AoC, Mass Effect, etc. I could see if it was real-time doing some movement and such being based on position (angle your character how you wish the enemy to move for example), or immediate interrupts to have a quick timer pop up when usable and have to decide to use it or not, etc.
I am also fine with either full-party or single-PC game. Really, lol, I am fine with just about anything as long as they keep true to the spirit and the fair majority of 4e rules.
in the debate of turn based and real time you eventually read a post like this that gets the idea right. thats the whole point of the game.:D
It doesn't matter so much about the range of attacks, Valkyria works in real time whilst you move your characters (which could translate to you drawing OA's as you move around) and then you resolve your attacks. Such a game would still be turn based but would have a more up close and personal feel.
This.
The is no reason Valkyria couldn't have used melee weapons as well, other than not fitting the WWII feel. I bet a bayonette charge would have been an interesting option that thematically fit.
It plays vaguely similar to Phantom Brave. A PC's turn starts. You have a movement guage that goes down with distance traveled. As you move, nearby enemies make OA against you. At any point during your move, you can make your attack. You can even take cover behind sandbags and such.
Modify this for DnD such that you can see a translucent grid on the field (or not) and your movements are translated into the grid spaces that you enter while moving. Then perform your attacks as normal.
This would really only be useful in tactical scenarios. For general exploration and roleplaying, the grid would vanish. You walk around with your party in marching order (lets say you have a 4x4 or 3x3 or other grid in a menu to organize the marching order of your party, and select the 'lead characer' that the others move in formation with). When a situation calls for a tactical encounter, thats when a grid appears (or descends or spreads out from the lead character or however you want to animate this) over the game world.
You could even apply this to tactical skill challenges. Your group runs after or from another party. At 'congestion points', the grid comes out as you navigate the congestion point (jump over barrels, knock over carts, etc). After you clear the congestion area challenge, the grid fades and you return to realtime party navigation running after or towards the others.
For trapped areas with no other enemies, the grid would stay invisible until either the player activated a grid encounter manually (a useful option i would think) or the player set off the trap, at which point the grid would come out if there was further danger from the trap. If no further danger, the grid fades and game returns to real time.
My $0.02