"Edition Proof Books", what happened to them? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

"Edition Proof Books", what happened to them?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
pholtus
Dec 27, 2008 23:41:26 I have a question and maybe it's been asked/answered and I missed it. If so anyone that can point me to the answer I would be grateful.

So My question is what happened to the 4th ed updates to Exemplars of Evil, and Elder Evils? When these came out, one of the selling points was that they would be "Edition Proof". So where are the updates? Also is they aren't out -will I now have to pay for these updates (ie - have a subscription to the DDI , in order to get something that was advertised as being a feature of the product that I already bought?

Here is a quote from the WotC FAQ about it

"With the introduction of 4th Edition, will existing 3.5 product be obsolete?
We are moving to a new edition, and the rulebooks that we’ll release from June 2008 forward will use the 4th Edition system. However, Dungeons & Dragons has always been a game involving campaign and world-building and your books from past editions still contain thousands of pages of information that you may consult when creating your world and/or updating your campaign. While there are no official plans to convert 3rd Edition material into 4th Edition, it is always possible to convert your favorite materials on your own.

That said, we’re also making sure that many products released before 4th Edition are “edition-proof,” meaning they can be used in any edition of the game (such as the Grand History of the Realms). In addition, other 3.5 products (such as Exemplars of Evil and Elder Evils) will receive 4th Edition updates, via D&D Insider."

I know that the WOTC offices are closed for the holiday - but wanted to ask before I forgot to post this
#2
Novacat
Dec 27, 2008 23:59:37 If they update 4 years from now, WotC will have remained true to their word. It's probably not a major priority, but it's just something that they will probably do someday.
#3
ssvegeta555
Dec 28, 2008 0:03:44 I hope something like that happens. I just bought those two books the other day for dirt cheap. Being able to use them in two editions would be nice.
#4
AttilatheNun
Dec 28, 2008 2:31:02 They may do that or they may not. WotC hasn't been good at keeping promises related to DDI. If you recall, the original idea was to have every component of DDI launch the same day as the new books were released. So far we have the magazines, the compendium, the bonus tools (which we weren't promised in the first place) and a beta of the character creator. We have no word on the character visualizer, dungeon builder, and virtual game table. This is almost seven months after the planned launch date. These won't be out for months at the earliest, and I personally wouldn't be surprised if we don't get all of these things by the end of 2009. I would only be slightly surprised if we never get some of these things at all.

My point here is that plans for DDI have changed drastically since its original announcement, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope on promises made early on.

I'm not blaming WotC here, they just bit off more than they could chew. As a company, WotC was relatively inexperienced with programming and such, so they underestimated the time and effort these things would take. As such, compromises have had to be made to try to come as close to delivering on their major promises as possible, and in order to do this, some of the smaller ones have had to be postponed for a very long time or left by the wayside entirely.
#5
naxel
Dec 30, 2008 8:23:33 I'd really like to see Elder Evils get its 4E update as well; I really enjoyed the book.

They have printed in some books already and a Dragon issue 'campaign arcs' which are a description of how a threat may be dealt with over the heroic, paragon, and epic tiers. That's sort of similar to increasing scales of apocalyptic signs. Kyuss is also going to be in Open Grave, as well as the Spawn of Kyuss monster, so hopefully that's going to be awesome! I love the creepy-crawly feeling of a guy made of worms. Perhaps WotC will print the other elder evils in other books; I know Kyuss is more of a significant character than, say, the Hulks of Zoretha but here's hoping
#6
saintridley
Jan 02, 2009 11:42:46 Read that last line you posted from the FAQ.

Via D&D Insider.

Question answered in original post.
#7
envoke
Jan 02, 2009 16:00:45
Read that last line you posted from the FAQ.

Via D&D Insider.

Question answered in original post.

You beat me to it. If they do update these books for 4th edition, then it will most likely be through their subscription service where they know that the fans will pay for if they truely want the books.
#8
The_Jester
Jan 04, 2009 18:17:57 It is a nice catch.
They promised updates on those books (and also claimed the Magic Item Compendium would be usable with 4e). Looks like they lied to get a few extra last-minute sales.

It might be an idea to send the question to D&D QnA or repeat it on the D&D Insider boards to get some extra attention.
#9
sciborg3
Jan 05, 2009 3:05:05 Well after a year or so of selling the last fiendish codex, Wizards says that the fiends are screwed up and need to be fixed.

then they tank FR's decades long setting and make something equivalent to vomit on a page so that "authors" (read: Rich Baker) can put out mediocre novels without doing any research into what genuine fans have published or put sweat and tears into compiling.

now they are releasing shoddy work like the 4e Manual of the Planes - the word count might not even be half of Elder Evils.

so i really doubt they will be doing anything to honor promises, given their sheisty business practices to date.
#10
The_Jester
Jan 05, 2009 9:32:44 Yeah, and it gets worse when you look at the crunch/fluff ratio of most 4e books. Martial Powers probably has a collective 3-4 pages of fluff and when 5e comes along it will be useless.
#11
rikiji
Jan 05, 2009 16:41:28 Ultimately, the only true edition-proof books are the ones with no game mechanics in them at all. The dungeon-tile sets are relatively edition proof (pending they don't switch to hex maps in 5E) but any book with even a small amount of game mechanics will probably need translation. Given that, there is a practical limitation of how much can be released at one time. To date, WotC has published an insane amount of material for 4E given that the game has been out just over half a year. Given that there's nearly 35 years of backhistory to convert, I can understand that some things might take a while.
#12
sinis
Jan 05, 2009 16:57:41 Eh, almost no books are edition 'proof'. In all fairness, some of the books are quite edition friendly. The important part is to invent your own mechanics for stuff like the Elder Evils. You'd almost certainly have to modify them to your own campaign, rather than using them straight from the book, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Personally, I only buy books that are light on the mechanics; I tend to make my own when the core books do not suffice. The 4E FRCS has some pretty neat stuff in it, but by and large, it's a lot of fluff with moderate amounts of crunch. DCs and statblocks are pretty much guidelines anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pholtus Dec 27, 2008 23:41:26	I have a question and maybe it's been asked/answered and I missed it. If so anyone that can point me to the answer I would be grateful. So My question is what happened to the 4th ed updates to Exemplars of Evil, and Elder Evils? When these came out, one of the selling points was that they would be "Edition Proof". So where are the updates? Also is they aren't out -will I now have to pay for these updates (ie - have a subscription to the DDI , in order to get something that was advertised as being a feature of the product that I already bought? Here is a quote from the WotC FAQ about it "With the introduction of 4th Edition, will existing 3.5 product be obsolete? We are moving to a new edition, and the rulebooks that we’ll release from June 2008 forward will use the 4th Edition system. However, Dungeons & Dragons has always been a game involving campaign and world-building and your books from past editions still contain thousands of pages of information that you may consult when creating your world and/or updating your campaign. While there are no official plans to convert 3rd Edition material into 4th Edition, it is always possible to convert your favorite materials on your own. That said, we’re also making sure that many products released before 4th Edition are “edition-proof,” meaning they can be used in any edition of the game (such as the Grand History of the Realms). In addition, other 3.5 products (such as Exemplars of Evil and Elder Evils) will receive 4th Edition updates, via D&D Insider." I know that the WOTC offices are closed for the holiday - but wanted to ask before I forgot to post this
#2 Novacat Dec 27, 2008 23:59:37	If they update 4 years from now, WotC will have remained true to their word. It's probably not a major priority, but it's just something that they will probably do someday.
#3 ssvegeta555 Dec 28, 2008 0:03:44	I hope something like that happens. I just bought those two books the other day for dirt cheap. Being able to use them in two editions would be nice.
#4 AttilatheNun Dec 28, 2008 2:31:02	They may do that or they may not. WotC hasn't been good at keeping promises related to DDI. If you recall, the original idea was to have every component of DDI launch the same day as the new books were released. So far we have the magazines, the compendium, the bonus tools (which we weren't promised in the first place) and a beta of the character creator. We have no word on the character visualizer, dungeon builder, and virtual game table. This is almost seven months after the planned launch date. These won't be out for months at the earliest, and I personally wouldn't be surprised if we don't get all of these things by the end of 2009. I would only be slightly surprised if we never get some of these things at all. My point here is that plans for DDI have changed drastically since its original announcement, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope on promises made early on. I'm not blaming WotC here, they just bit off more than they could chew. As a company, WotC was relatively inexperienced with programming and such, so they underestimated the time and effort these things would take. As such, compromises have had to be made to try to come as close to delivering on their major promises as possible, and in order to do this, some of the smaller ones have had to be postponed for a very long time or left by the wayside entirely.
#5 naxel Dec 30, 2008 8:23:33	I'd really like to see Elder Evils get its 4E update as well; I really enjoyed the book. They have printed in some books already and a Dragon issue 'campaign arcs' which are a description of how a threat may be dealt with over the heroic, paragon, and epic tiers. That's sort of similar to increasing scales of apocalyptic signs. Kyuss is also going to be in Open Grave, as well as the Spawn of Kyuss monster, so hopefully that's going to be awesome! I love the creepy-crawly feeling of a guy made of worms. Perhaps WotC will print the other elder evils in other books; I know Kyuss is more of a significant character than, say, the Hulks of Zoretha but here's hoping
#6 saintridley Jan 02, 2009 11:42:46	Read that last line you posted from the FAQ. Via D&D Insider. Question answered in original post.
#7 envoke Jan 02, 2009 16:00:45	Read that last line you posted from the FAQ. Via D&D Insider. Question answered in original post. You beat me to it. If they do update these books for 4th edition, then it will most likely be through their subscription service where they know that the fans will pay for if they truely want the books.
#8 The_Jester Jan 04, 2009 18:17:57	It is a nice catch. They promised updates on those books (and also claimed the Magic Item Compendium would be usable with 4e). Looks like they lied to get a few extra last-minute sales. It might be an idea to send the question to D&D QnA or repeat it on the D&D Insider boards to get some extra attention.
#9 sciborg3 Jan 05, 2009 3:05:05	Well after a year or so of selling the last fiendish codex, Wizards says that the fiends are screwed up and need to be fixed. then they tank FR's decades long setting and make something equivalent to vomit on a page so that "authors" (read: Rich Baker) can put out mediocre novels without doing any research into what genuine fans have published or put sweat and tears into compiling. now they are releasing shoddy work like the 4e Manual of the Planes - the word count might not even be half of Elder Evils. so i really doubt they will be doing anything to honor promises, given their sheisty business practices to date.
#10 The_Jester Jan 05, 2009 9:32:44	Yeah, and it gets worse when you look at the crunch/fluff ratio of most 4e books. Martial Powers probably has a collective 3-4 pages of fluff and when 5e comes along it will be useless.
#11 rikiji Jan 05, 2009 16:41:28	Ultimately, the only true edition-proof books are the ones with no game mechanics in them at all. The dungeon-tile sets are relatively edition proof (pending they don't switch to hex maps in 5E) but any book with even a small amount of game mechanics will probably need translation. Given that, there is a practical limitation of how much can be released at one time. To date, WotC has published an insane amount of material for 4E given that the game has been out just over half a year. Given that there's nearly 35 years of backhistory to convert, I can understand that some things might take a while.
#12 sinis Jan 05, 2009 16:57:41	Eh, almost no books are edition 'proof'. In all fairness, some of the books are quite edition friendly. The important part is to invent your own mechanics for stuff like the Elder Evils. You'd almost certainly have to modify them to your own campaign, rather than using them straight from the book, so it shouldn't be too hard. Personally, I only buy books that are light on the mechanics; I tend to make my own when the core books do not suffice. The 4E FRCS has some pretty neat stuff in it, but by and large, it's a lot of fluff with moderate amounts of crunch. DCs and statblocks are pretty much guidelines anyway.