So, you want to include the various builds within essentials as separate classes to multiclass with?
Forgive me, but those kit builds are already a hybrid into themselves, with the possible exception being the Mage builds.
???
So, you want to include the various builds within essentials as separate classes to multiclass with?
Forgive me, but those kit builds are already a hybrid into themselves, with the possible exception being the Mage builds.
Dude! How did you come to this conclusion regarding my post. I merely stated I wanted multi-class options for the essential characters.
I know it will probably come out in DDI. I'm merely stating It needs to be sooner rather than later.
Mithreinmaethor, I would be very suprised if there was no multiclassing planned for the essentials.
Although I hope I am wrong because there are some pretty cool new powers and features in some of the Essentials classes I'd love to powergame with older 4e stuff.
I think it is unlikely you will see MC or Hybrid options for Essentials classes. That seems to defeat the goal of Essentials in making things "simpler."
Although I hope I am wrong because there are some pretty cool new powers and features in some of the Essentials classes I'd love to powergame with older 4e stuff.
Yeah, I know what you mean, can you imagine the slayer MC'd with something that gave them MBAs? that would be so broken...
I need this for several builds I want make. It is unbelievable that this is not available yet 4 months after the release of the first product. This shouldn't be hard. I was looking forward to the heroe's of sword and spell just for that reason. If this is planned for an article release, please make it sooner than later. This will go a long way to aleviating some of the pain we the customers are feeling I think.
The Multiclass Feats are available to Essentials characters. Just this weekend I tested a Cavalier concept and multiclassed Bard for the Skill Training and access to the Feats.
(The concept, for any who might care, is to make a Human Target.
Changeling Cavalier of Sacrifice, in service to the Church of Erathis. When the Church of Erathis needs someone protected or moved safely, they call in Derek to stand in and be the target until the assassin is caught (or strikes) or while the target is spirited to safety. With mastery of all the PC languages thanks to the Mark of Scribing, Derek can impersonate any person of interest to the Church of Erathis, at least for a short time. When Derek is not on assignment, he is free to pursue his own goals.)
If you wanted MC Feats the other way, into Essentials classes, I would imagine that MCing into Knight or Slayer would grant you a Skill Training and Power Strike once per day (or maybe Plate Proficiency) for Knight and Skill Training and Power Strike once per day (or Dex mod damage bonus once per Encounter) for Slayer, and so on. If you want access to the Utility powers, you can still do that by MCing the parent class under the current rules.
Like you, I am anxiously awaiting details on how the Encounter and Daily Power Swap Feats will work with the Essentials classes.
What concepts do you want to make, maybe I can get you there starting with the Essentials class and the standard MC Feats?
I would like to do things like:
- take a star pact hexblade, mulit-class into Swordmage and then swap a star pact encounter power for a swordmage power.
- Take an eladrin Slayer and mulit-class into swordmage for more burst and blast.
- Perhaps I want to make an eldritch knight by taking an eladrin knight and multi-class into wizard or swordmage.
Multi-classing is baseline for Dnd going back all the way to 1st edition. To take that away is to change the game entirely in my opinion.
On a side note: Is the summon mount a class feature only, or can you multi-class and take it as a 6th level utility. The new OCB will not let you do this although I know it is still buggy.
As I said before, multi-classing is a core part of Dnd. I might as well play an MMO if I can't multi-class.
I really don't see how thinking they will come out with essential multi-classing is wishful thinking. You folks are really suprising me with those comments. I can see how combining essentials and the old edition might be considered that as it is plain the Essentials line is 4.5 in every shape and form except that Wizards won't fess up and admit it (mind you, I used to argue with anyone who called it 4.5 before December. I think I was thinking wishfully then).
As I said before, multi-classing is a core part of Dnd. I might as well play an MMO if I can't multi-class.
Final Fantasy XI allowed you to multi-class.. so you can still multi-class in an MMO...
I really don't see how thinking they will come out with essential multi-classing is wishful thinking. You folks are really suprising me with those comments. I can see how combining essentials and the old edition might be considered that as it is plain the Essentials line is 4.5 in every shape and form except that Wizards won't fess up and admit it (mind you, I used to argue with anyone who called it 4.5 before December. I think I was thinking wishfully then).
As I said before, multi-classing is a core part of Dnd. I might as well play an MMO if I can't multi-class.
Final Fantasy XI allowed you to multi-class.. so you can still multi-class in an MMO...
Ok, you got me there. Actually, you can multi-class in ddo too. That doesn't change my point though. Multi-classing is a necessity. They've abviously got plans to use the essentials and the new format, so it needs multi-classing to be complete.
I really don't see how thinking they will come out with essential multi-classing is wishful thinking. You folks are really suprising me with those comments. I can see how combining essentials and the old edition might be considered that as it is plain the Essentials line is 4.5 in every shape and form except that Wizards won't fess up and admit it (mind you, I used to argue with anyone who called it 4.5 before December. I think I was thinking wishfully then).
As I said before, multi-classing is a core part of Dnd. I might as well play an MMO if I can't multi-class.
Final Fantasy XI allowed you to multi-class.. so you can still multi-class in an MMO...
Ok, you got me there. Actually, you can multi-class in ddo too. That doesn't change my point though. Multi-classing is a necessity. They've abviously got plans to use the essentials and the new format, so it needs multi-classing to be complete.
There's no way to multi-class Essentials with pre-E. Any implementation would either be too broken to use or to complex to work in the "simple" Essentials methodology...
Which is why we need essentials multi-classing, and that was the whole point of this post. I'm not talking about multi-classing with pre-essentials. wait a minute! I guess I was if you were going by the examples I used, but we still need standard multi-classing options for the essentials just like we got in every players handbook of every edition that has come out for dnd.
Just trade out each levels class features or use the MC feats...
I really don't see how thinking they will come out with essential multi-classing is wishful thinking. You folks are really suprising me with those comments. I can see how combining essentials and the old edition might be considered that as it is plain the Essentials line is 4.5 in every shape and form except that Wizards won't fess up and admit it (mind you, I used to argue with anyone who called it 4.5 before December. I think I was thinking wishfully then).
As I said before, multi-classing is a core part of Dnd. I might as well play an MMO if I can't multi-class.
Final Fantasy XI allowed you to multi-class.. so you can still multi-class in an MMO...
Ok, you got me there. Actually, you can multi-class in ddo too. That doesn't change my point though. Multi-classing is a necessity. They've abviously got plans to use the essentials and the new format, so it needs multi-classing to be complete.
Runes of Magic basically requires you to multi-class in order to be effective.
What I like too do is mix powers between the 4 martial power classes presented in the Heroes books. The utilities that is. Even the stances. That is very flexible- a Fighter cant take Rogue powers but a Knight can take a Slayer's stance.
WotC, I just wanted to note, despite the people here who hate essentials and want to ruin it for everybody else, those of us who like essentials tend to agree with the OP. We do want multiclassing rules. Please provide them!
This +1!
I see essentialized multiclassing working like 2nd ed dual classing. Take all powers of both classes, but you earn ½ of your XP for each class every time you earn XP. While the rest of the party earns 200 XP you earn 100 XP for both classes.
Yes you will be more powerful, but you will be a few levels behind a straight class character. At this point I think it’s the only way to work it.
I see essentialized multiclassing working like 2nd ed dual classing. Take all powers of both classes, but you earn ½ of your XP for each class every time you earn XP. While the rest of the party earns 200 XP you earn 100 XP for both classes.
Yes you will be more powerful, but you will be a few levels behind a straight class character. At this point I think it’s the only way to work it.
No. I don't see that working out well at all.
Essentials characters were designed to be simple in the books. Having extensive options found outside the actual physical books of the essentials line makes sense. No matter what they come up with the essentials classes will still be nice and easy to use in the books but they can bring in more options in complexity in the online material (or even non-essentials books) to round out characters.
Basically they have dug themselves into a hole, there is no ideal simple way to multi-class with post-E...
No, they did not dig themselves into a hole. What they did is provide exactly the type of options that many people in this community were asking for. What you would have "no problem with" is not what people, who were making the complaints that spawned essentials, wanted. All that means is that essentials is a product not aimed at you. I, for example, would like like essentials half as much as I do if it was designed the way you describe. The differences between the scout and AEDU model classes is exactly what I am most enjoying about the scout I am playing right now.
I meant that they designed post-E in a way that would make it difficult or impossible to multi-class, not that there is anything inherently wrong with post-E. My only gripe is that every class could have been built into the existing AEDU mechanic without requiring a whole new way of doing things...
You missed the point. The departure from the AEDU schematic IS the appeal...
For some, not for all. Some of us really liked the standardized level progression and power acquisition, and would like to see continued support for it. Not that the support for Essentials style classes should or must wane for this support to appear.
You missed the point. The departure from the AEDU schematic IS the appeal...
For some, not for all. Some of us really liked the standardized level progression and power acquisition, and would like to see continued support for it. Not that the support for Essentials style classes should or must wane for this support to appear.
Reread the last couple posts of conversation. The context of the conversation already made it clear that we are discussing "some." Essentials is pretty clearly an attempt to produce a product that caters to a particular portion of the community who had particular complaints about this edition.
You missed the point. The departure from the AEDU schematic IS the appeal...
For some, not for all. Some of us really liked the standardized level progression and power acquisition, and would like to see continued support for it. Not that the support for Essentials style classes should or must wane for this support to appear.
Reread the last couple posts of conversation. The context of the conversation already made it clear that we are discussing "some." Essentials is pretty clearly an attempt to produce a product that caters to a particular portion of the community who had particular complaints about this edition.
Fair enough, complaint withdrawn. The reason I stay away from reading so many of these discussions in their entirety is the lack of time, and the fact that many make my brain hurt. ;)