Am I the only one who thinks 2E is coming back? (sort of) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Am I the only one who thinks 2E is coming back? (sort of)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Vilnias_Nastavnik
Oct 27, 2010 21:49:01 Ok, so let me begin by saying I LOVE Gamma World and think it was an excellent way to bring forth a classic game to the new world of RPG. But it gave me the feeling, combined with the announcement of a similar boxed set for Ravenloft, that the 2E wave of boxed sets are making a comeback. Don't get me wrong, I was a sucker for boxed sets (Dragon Mountain, Night Bellow, Planescape, Spelljammer) and with the strong pangs of nostalgia with the release of the Red Box (even though I actually started before that) I can see myself spending my hard earned cash for a stack of boxed sets. And as I write this, I remember the announcement of another boxed adventure (with an actual copy of The Deck of Many Things included!) coming out in the summer. So, am I the only one who sees the return of the Boxes of 2E?
#2
mboss77
Oct 27, 2010 22:03:54
Ok, so let me begin by saying I LOVE Gamma World and think it was an excellent way to bring forth a classic game to the new world of RPG. But it gave me the feeling, combined with the announcement of a similar boxed set for Ravenloft, that the 2E wave of boxed sets are making a comeback. Don't get me wrong, I was a sucker for boxed sets (Dragon Mountain, Night Bellow, Planescape, Spelljammer) and with the strong pangs of nostalgia with the release of the Red Box (even though I actually started before that) I can see myself spending my hard earned cash for a stack of boxed sets. And as I write this, I remember the announcement of another boxed adventure (with an actual copy of The Deck of Many Things included!) coming out in the summer. So, am I the only one who sees the return of the Boxes of 2E?

Well, it certainly feels like the 2e box set era. I'm also a fan so let's do the list...

So far we have:
Red Box
DM's Kit
Monster Vault
Tiles Master Sets (not sure if they count or not)

What we know for sure is coming is:
Shadowfell
Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale
Ravenloft

What have I missed?
#3
strand0
Oct 27, 2010 22:13:45 Imitation means... no ideas.
#4
Vilnias_Nastavnik
Oct 27, 2010 22:44:28 From GenCon 2010:

"Madness of Gardmore Abbey will be the year’s super-adventure, focusing on a scattered Deck of Many Things around Gardmore Abbey. This will also be in a boxed set, and will contain a Deck of Many Things that the players draw from."

#5
Vilnias_Nastavnik
Oct 27, 2010 22:46:37
Imitation means... no ideas.

Imitation of the format doesn't always mean no ideas, using what was successful and applying it to current products is good business.
#6
Tony_Vargas
Oct 28, 2010 1:49:37 What I've experienced of Essentials so far (and that's just one Game Day and 5 sessions of Encoutners) has left me with a 1e or 2e feel. I started with 1e AD&D and was very fond of it at the time, and still have some nostalgia for it. I've played it twice in the last 10 years, though, and that's been enough.

Hopefully 4e will mostly stay like 4e.
#7
ADHadh
Oct 28, 2010 9:15:27 Eighties (now late-eighties and early nineties) are still in, so we're getting a wave of things and ideas from that era, regardless if they worked back then or didn't (the latter especially true about Nintendo).
#8
Style75
Oct 28, 2010 13:44:09 Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia....

PDF's and bit-torrents

WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy.

In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice.

On a personal note, I love box sets. I like the thrill of opening them up and pulling everything out. Feels like Christmas. More box sets please!
#9
ADHadh
Oct 28, 2010 15:18:39
Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia....

PDF's and bit-torrents

WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy.

In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice.

On a personal note, I love box sets. I like the thrill of opening them up and pulling everything out. Feels like Christmas. More box sets please!

I like this theory. I don't know if it's true and I won't defend it, but I like it.

#10
AaronOfBarbaria
Oct 28, 2010 16:46:24
Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia....

PDF's and bit-torrents

WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy.

In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice.

On a personal note, I love box sets. I like the thrill of opening them up and pulling everything out. Feels like Christmas. More box sets please!

I like this theory. I don't know if it's true and I won't defend it, but I like it.

It could be true... though really, there will always be those folks that want (whatever their reasons might be) to steal it instead of buy it - whether they do so digitally or otherwise.

On a completely unrelated note - I love boxed sets. The little "extras" that are so much more likely to be thrown in with the box, and the presentation of the boxed materials... that's my favorite part of RPG products.

I thought, for example, that the HPE adventures were nice - the heavy folder, two books, and poster maps - but you give me a box (like the DM kit) that has a few maps, some minis/tokens, and an adventure or setting, I'll buy it up without hesitating... even if it is a re-do of stuff I already have

Funny story about the DM's Kit I bought the other week - I own tons of minis so I didn't need the tokens, I have both the DMG 1 and 2 so I didn't really need the DMB (though up to date traps and DM screen will see lots of use), I already updated my DM screen with post-its so I didn't need the new screen, and I literally just finished a home-built adventure with pretty much the same synopsys as the included adventure... so effectively I had no reason to buy it other than "hey! sweet box."
#11
Obvious_Ninja
Oct 28, 2010 16:54:35 So am I getting that "feel" of the 2nd Ed. box sets? Yes, and its a good thing. I rather enjoy the box sets myself. I've thought the Essentials line has done a nice job... The books are clearly set up to be read on a Kindle/e-reader/iPad. The new box sets give a little more "umph" to the feel if not necessarily to the substance... call me a sucker for commercialism but I love opening the new box for all of the bits involved...
#12
ranadiel
Oct 28, 2010 18:25:05
Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia....

PDF's and bit-torrents

WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy.

In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice.

I'm going to be blunt, this is a really bad theory. Anything of value from a boxed set can be scanned just as easily as a book(probably because the only thing of value are the books, but aside that point). The people who torrent will still torrent even if they can't get the tokens that go with the boxed set because the main reason people torrent is because they either don't wnat to spend money on the product or can't afford it. Making a more expensive product does nothing to combat either of these reasons. If anything it makes the probelm worse.
#13
mboss77
Oct 28, 2010 19:43:55
Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia....

PDF's and bit-torrents

WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy.

In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice.

I'm going to be blunt, this is a really bad theory. Anything of value from a boxed set can be scanned just as easily as a book(probably because the only thing of value are the books, but aside that point). The people who torrent will still torrent even if they can't get the tokens that go with the boxed set because the main reason people torrent is because they either don't wnat to spend money on the product or can't afford it. Making a more expensive product does nothing to combat either of these reasons. If anything it makes the probelm worse.

Personally speaking, all the extras in the DM's Kit is the ONLY reason that I purchased it. The book is fine, some parts I like better than the DMG but overall I think the DMG is a superior book.

Of course the people that torrent will continue to torrent, but that is completely independent of whether the box-sets help sell more or less units or if WotC is more or less profitable through the box-sets. I wouldn't be so sure that a box-set wouldn't be enough to make the difference between someone purchasing something versus just downloading it. The price may be a bit higher, but there is magic in the higher perceived-value that a box-set offers. Speaking psychologically, a box-set because its in a nice box that you physically get to open over and over again recreates the purchase experience which is a powerful thing in our brains.

Also it isn't a matter of people being broken into two groups:
1) those who purchase and
2) those who torrent

The reality is that there are many groups they are trying to appeal to:
1) those who never purchase
2) those who purchase rarely
3) those who purchase some things but not others
4) those who purchase most things
5) those who purchase everything
Then among each of those groups there are those who torrent and those who do not.

Their goal is to try and create products that are going to lead to purchases by as many people in those groups as possible. Obviously their market research is indicating that their is a strong market for box-sets.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Vilnias_Nastavnik Oct 27, 2010 21:49:01	Ok, so let me begin by saying I LOVE Gamma World and think it was an excellent way to bring forth a classic game to the new world of RPG. But it gave me the feeling, combined with the announcement of a similar boxed set for Ravenloft, that the 2E wave of boxed sets are making a comeback. Don't get me wrong, I was a sucker for boxed sets (Dragon Mountain, Night Bellow, Planescape, Spelljammer) and with the strong pangs of nostalgia with the release of the Red Box (even though I actually started before that) I can see myself spending my hard earned cash for a stack of boxed sets. And as I write this, I remember the announcement of another boxed adventure (with an actual copy of The Deck of Many Things included!) coming out in the summer. So, am I the only one who sees the return of the Boxes of 2E?
#2 mboss77 Oct 27, 2010 22:03:54	Ok, so let me begin by saying I LOVE Gamma World and think it was an excellent way to bring forth a classic game to the new world of RPG. But it gave me the feeling, combined with the announcement of a similar boxed set for Ravenloft, that the 2E wave of boxed sets are making a comeback. Don't get me wrong, I was a sucker for boxed sets (Dragon Mountain, Night Bellow, Planescape, Spelljammer) and with the strong pangs of nostalgia with the release of the Red Box (even though I actually started before that) I can see myself spending my hard earned cash for a stack of boxed sets. And as I write this, I remember the announcement of another boxed adventure (with an actual copy of The Deck of Many Things included!) coming out in the summer. So, am I the only one who sees the return of the Boxes of 2E? Well, it certainly feels like the 2e box set era. I'm also a fan so let's do the list... So far we have: Red Box DM's Kit Monster Vault Tiles Master Sets (not sure if they count or not) What we know for sure is coming is: Shadowfell Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale Ravenloft What have I missed?
#3 strand0 Oct 27, 2010 22:13:45	Imitation means... no ideas.
#4 Vilnias_Nastavnik Oct 27, 2010 22:44:28	From GenCon 2010: "*Madness of Gardmore Abbey* will be the year’s super-adventure, focusing on a scattered Deck of Many Things around Gardmore Abbey. This will also be in a boxed set, and will contain a Deck of Many Things that the players draw from."
#5 Vilnias_Nastavnik Oct 27, 2010 22:46:37	Imitation means... no ideas. Imitation of the format doesn't always mean no ideas, using what was successful and applying it to current products is good business.
#6 Tony_Vargas Oct 28, 2010 1:49:37	What I've experienced of Essentials so far (and that's just one Game Day and 5 sessions of Encoutners) has left me with a 1e or 2e feel. I started with 1e AD&D and was very fond of it at the time, and still have some nostalgia for it. I've played it twice in the last 10 years, though, and that's been enough. Hopefully 4e will mostly stay like 4e.
#7 ADHadh Oct 28, 2010 9:15:27	Eighties (now late-eighties and early nineties) are still in, so we're getting a wave of things and ideas from that era, regardless if they worked back then or didn't (the latter especially true about Nintendo).
#8 Style75 Oct 28, 2010 13:44:09	Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia.... PDF's and bit-torrents WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy. In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice. On a personal note, I love box sets. I like the thrill of opening them up and pulling everything out. Feels like Christmas. More box sets please!
#9 ADHadh Oct 28, 2010 15:18:39	Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia.... PDF's and bit-torrents WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy. In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice. On a personal note, I love box sets. I like the thrill of opening them up and pulling everything out. Feels like Christmas. More box sets please! I like this theory. I don't know if it's true and I won't defend it, but I like it.
#10 AaronOfBarbaria Oct 28, 2010 16:46:24	Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia.... PDF's and bit-torrents WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy. In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice. On a personal note, I love box sets. I like the thrill of opening them up and pulling everything out. Feels like Christmas. More box sets please! I like this theory. I don't know if it's true and I won't defend it, but I like it. It could be true... though really, there will always be those folks that want (whatever their reasons might be) to steal it instead of buy it - whether they do so digitally or otherwise. On a completely unrelated note - I love boxed sets. The little "extras" that are so much more likely to be thrown in with the box, and the presentation of the boxed materials... that's my favorite part of RPG products. I thought, for example, that the HPE adventures were nice - the heavy folder, two books, and poster maps - but you give me a box (like the DM kit) that has a few maps, some minis/tokens, and an adventure or setting, I'll buy it up without hesitating... even if it is a re-do of stuff I already have Funny story about the DM's Kit I bought the other week - I own tons of minis so I didn't need the tokens, I have both the DMG 1 and 2 so I didn't really need the DMB (though up to date traps and DM screen will see lots of use), I already updated my DM screen with post-its so I didn't need the new screen, and I literally just finished a home-built adventure with pretty much the same synopsys as the included adventure... so effectively I had no reason to buy it other than "hey! sweet box."
#11 Obvious_Ninja Oct 28, 2010 16:54:35	So am I getting that "feel" of the 2nd Ed. box sets? Yes, and its a good thing. I rather enjoy the box sets myself. I've thought the Essentials line has done a nice job... The books are clearly set up to be read on a Kindle/e-reader/iPad. The new box sets give a little more "umph" to the feel if not necessarily to the substance... call me a sucker for commercialism but I love opening the new box for all of the bits involved...
#12 ranadiel Oct 28, 2010 18:25:05	Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia.... PDF's and bit-torrents WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy. In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice. I'm going to be blunt, this is a really bad theory. Anything of value from a boxed set can be scanned just as easily as a book(probably because the only thing of value are the books, but aside that point). The people who torrent will still torrent even if they can't get the tokens that go with the boxed set because the main reason people torrent is because they either don't wnat to spend money on the product or can't afford it. Making a more expensive product does nothing to combat either of these reasons. If anything it makes the probelm worse.
#13 mboss77 Oct 28, 2010 19:43:55	Here is the real reason for all the boxed sets and it has nothing to do with nostalgia.... PDF's and bit-torrents WotC realizes that it is losing a ton of potential customers when its products appear on the bit torrents days after release (and sometimes before!). If you put together a box set, people will be far more likely to buy it rather than just download the PDF from Pirate Bay. People see the box sets as added value. For example, the new monster vault. Lots of people would just say "Meh, its an overhaul of MM1. I'll just download it." But now it will have tokens for every monster and suddenly goes to the top of every DM's list of things to buy. In the end, WotC sells more product and D&D lives another year. People may say that this is just a cash grab, but you do get something for you money which is nice. I'm going to be blunt, this is a really bad theory. Anything of value from a boxed set can be scanned just as easily as a book(probably because the only thing of value are the books, but aside that point). The people who torrent will still torrent even if they can't get the tokens that go with the boxed set because the main reason people torrent is because they either don't wnat to spend money on the product or can't afford it. Making a more expensive product does nothing to combat either of these reasons. If anything it makes the probelm worse. Personally speaking, all the extras in the DM's Kit is the ONLY reason that I purchased it. The book is fine, some parts I like better than the DMG but overall I think the DMG is a superior book. Of course the people that torrent will continue to torrent, but that is completely independent of whether the box-sets help sell more or less units or if WotC is more or less profitable through the box-sets. I wouldn't be so sure that a box-set wouldn't be enough to make the difference between someone purchasing something versus just downloading it. The price may be a bit higher, but there is magic in the higher perceived-value that a box-set offers. Speaking psychologically, a box-set because its in a nice box that you physically get to open over and over again recreates the purchase experience which is a powerful thing in our brains. Also it isn't a matter of people being broken into two groups: 1) those who purchase and 2) those who torrent The reality is that there are many groups they are trying to appeal to: 1) those who never purchase 2) those who purchase rarely 3) those who purchase some things but not others 4) those who purchase most things 5) those who purchase everything Then among each of those groups there are those who torrent and those who do not. Their goal is to try and create products that are going to lead to purchases by as many people in those groups as possible. Obviously their market research is indicating that their is a strong market for box-sets.