There will also be races, but what they are, we haven't the foggiest. Many suggest Dark Ones and Kenku, and some believe that Revenants and Shadar-kai will be reprinted.
It's also been confirmed that the book will follow the Essentials "kit" module format in its approach to new classes, though as I said above, the nature of the Assassin is in doubt.
I thought the Assassin was supposed to be DDi exclusive?
That is what was said, and I hope they keep it that way, and I'm not even a DDi subscriber. They said that content was only for DDi and it should be that way.
I thought the Assassin was supposed to be DDi exclusive?
Not anymore, it seems.
Just like Keep on the Shadowfell became free to download.
Video game companies do it all the time; you know, a game is platform exclusive for six months and then ports are released.
Just like Keep on the Shadowfell became free to download.
You'll note the devs for those games never outright say though that the game will never appear on another system. In this instance though, we were told that the Assassin wouldn't see print as I recall. Really it's a completely different sort of scenario compared to your video game example and also your Keep on the Shadowfell example.
I actually hate it when things are exclusive. Privateer Press has an exclusive miniature that you have to send in pieces cut out of the back of three issues of their magazine to get. If it was for sale, I'd buy it in an instant, but I'm not going to hunt down three back issues from two years ago to get it.
Oh I agree, I prefer things not being exclusive. I just like it when a company is upfront and honest about things.
I actually hate it when things are exclusive. Privateer Press has an exclusive miniature that you have to send in pieces cut out of the back of three issues of their magazine to get. If it was for sale, I'd buy it in an instant, but I'm not going to hunt down three back issues from two years ago to get it.
Oh I agree, I prefer things not being exclusive. I just like it when a company is upfront and honest about things.
Maybe Heroes of Shadow will say "We were wrong to make the Assassin a DDI exclusive. Here it is for sale in print for those who want it."
do you think the necromancer will be a new wizard build or a new class??????
New class. It was listed in the description with the assassin and hexblade. Without actually comparing it to previous books, it just makes sense, that if you're going to advertise new content on the book cover, you should be advertising the main things: new classes. Now, Heroes of Shadow may provide stuff for other classes - there's been some debate about whether or not this goes beyond the normal multiclassing rules. But the emphasis darn well better be on the classes with Shadow power source.
do you think the necromancer will be a new wizard build or a new class??????
Since it's a completely different power source, my money is on a new class altogether.
The focus of the book is on the shadow power source.
The book is a 300ish page 6x9 paperback, which is about as much page space as the current power splat books.
The book will include races related to the Shadow power source
The book will include classes, including the Necromancer, Hexblade, and Assassin
The book will include shadow options for other classes*
Educated Guesses:
*Given that the book will include more then one full race write up, three class write ups (likely with two builds per class), and associated powers, feats, paths, and destinies, all in about the same amount of space as a power splat, one can probably assume that the support for non-shadow classes is going to be minimal. The normal multiclassing rules would be consistant with the statment about warpriests gaining shadow powers, so, given the actually pretty short book length, and the significant amount of new ground this book needs to cover, I really wouldn't expect much in the way of support for other classes. As I said elsewhere, do not pin high hopes on a statment that could easily be referring to the normal multiclass options, and then feel betrayed if the book is released and includes nothing for existing classes beyond the normal multiclass options.
- Assassin, Hexblade, and Necromancer are probably the only classes. The book isn't as long as it sounds, due to the smaller dimensions. New classes, and their attendant powers, paths, and feats, take up a lot of space.
- Shadar-Kai will probably be one of the included races.
- The assassin presented will likely be new builds, not any of the previously seen builds. This way they can claim to keep up the 'DDI exclusive' nature of the current assassin.
- The classes presented are likely to be in the same style as the essentials classes - with stronger flavor elements, greater deviations from the normal progression tree, and class features gained beyond level 1. This we can guess because the developers have explicitely said essentials is an indication of current class design philosophy.
- Hexblade will probably be a defender (the hex lends itself well to being a marking mechanic, in 3e the Hexblade fell under the fighter/paladin party role category). This is far from a sure thing, as a dark knight kind of class could easily be built as a striker, and possibly even as a controller or leader.
- Necromancer will probably be a controller (necromancy spells in 3e tended to be debuff oriented, and the 3e dedicated necromancy caster class fell primarily under the Sorc/Wiz arcane caster party role category). This is far from a sure thing, as a necromancer just needs to use undead to be fluffy - what exactly the designers have the necromancer use those undead to do could easily put it in any of the four roles.
- Revenants and Dark Ones are reasonably likely race possibilities.
Reasonable Hopes:
- I hope Assassins get a power boost (they're currently considered one of the weakest classes when it comes to performing their supposed party role, and the developers are likely aware of this).
- I hope we see Kenku as one of the race options, with a new connection to the Shadowfell. Not really basing this on anything, just a personal hope.
- I hope we see a fair amount of fluff describing the Shadow power source and how it works, similar to the fluff we gog on the Primal power source in the Primal Power splat book. Developer comments in essentialls have included a desire to incorporate fluff elements into classes more in the future, and it's not unreasonable to think this might manifest in part as more fluff included in future core material.
The Mage preview seems to hint pretty strongly to a return of classic DnD schools of magic.
The Mage, a subdivision of Wizard, is further divided into which school they specialize in. The three that debut along with the Mage are Evocation, Enchantment, and Illusion, three classic schools of magic from previous editions. It's also specifically noted that there are other schools besides the three that are going to be shown with the new Mage.
So what was one of those other classic schools? Necromancy.
As far as the power source being wrong... something tells me that new power sources for entirely new subdivisions of classes, like the Mage, might not be outside the realm of possibility anymore. After all, the Essentials design philosophy seems to be turning a lot of assumptions on their heads.
Further, the Assassin and Hexblade might be subclasses of the Rogue and the Fighter. It's just impossible to predict at this point.
I see where you're coming from on the Necromancer though, but from what I've read, the Necro is pretty firmly in the boat with the Assassin and Hexblade, more so than it is with the Warpriest (New class vs. Shadow powers for an existing class)
Necromancer:Cleric of Death God::Druid:Cleric of Nature God
Thematically, it could fit as a new build of wizard or cleric. But the Heroes of Shadow book is for the Shadow power source, and the classes will be new classes within that power source, not class variants belonging to other power sources.
Right, the appearance of the Knight shows us how drastiucally different a "subclass" and a "build" are. It's not a huge leap to me to make a Necromancer a Wizard Subclass... even if it is so drastically different from the wizard in terms of features, power selection, etc that it is effectively a new class.
Further, the Assassin and Hexblade might be subclasses of the Rogue and the Fighter. It's just impossible to predict at this point.
The Knight like the Fighter is Martial. The Mage like the Wizard is Arcane.
The Necromancer though is a full on different power source. I do not see how a sub class could be in a completely different power source from it's parent class. There's no precident for it.
But the Heroes of Shadow book is for the Shadow power source, and the classes will be new classes within that power source, not class variants belonging to other power sources.
Emphasis mine.
You can't say "they will be new classes" for certain, anymore than I can say "The new setting for 2011 is Spelljammer". There's no evidence, one way or another. This is all speculation, and there are no facts. What you have right there is a (very reasonable) assumption, based on the observation that all powers for a class have always been the same power source.
However, as reasonable as that assumption may be, that all wizard powers have to be arcane because they always have been, my point is that this is not a forgone conclusion.
Up until last week, all Fighter builds had daily attacks. Now they don't.
Be prepared for lots of wacky changes and pushing the system to its limits. Thats all I'm sayin'
But the Heroes of Shadow book is for the Shadow power source, and the classes will be new classes within that power source, not class variants belonging to other power sources.
Emphasis mine.
You can't say "they will be new classes" for certain, anymore than I can say "The new setting for 2011 is Spelljammer". There's no evidence, one way or another. This is all speculation, and there are no facts. What you have right there is a (very reasonable) assumption, based on the observation that all powers for a class have always been the same power source.
However, as reasonable as that assumption may be, that all wizard powers have to be arcane because they always have been, my point is that this is not a forgone conclusion.
Up until last week, all Fighter builds had daily attacks. Now they don't.
Be prepared for lots of wacky changes and pushing the system to its limits. Thats all I'm sayin'
It's more than just a very reasonable assumption, it's almost a certainty.
A complete change in power source in a sub class from it's parent class is a significantly bigger departure than the elimination of Daily Powers, after all we already have the precident of that sort of thing set from some of the Psionic classes that eliminated Encounter powers in favour of boostable At-Wills.
See, the way I look at it is that a Wizard is a Wizard is a Wizard. All kinds of Wizards have essentially the same basic training. This is where they first start learning their powers (level 0 if you will). This is where they learn to access the Arcane power.
Now, if a sub class access a completely different power source from it's parent class, that just doesn't make sense and would at least in my view make it a completely different class simply because it would share nothing in common with it's parent class, not even the most basic of basic skills.
And call it what you like, "very reasonable", "almost certain", the fact is that it's not 100% confirmed, verified, and announced.
Wether the complete restructing of power progression for a class is more or less of a departure than changing a mostly arbitrary lable for a suite of powers belonging to a class is entirely subjective.
For instance, I think replacing one keyword on an at-will/encounter/daily power is a heck of a lot less of a change than deciding your class makes only base attacks, and has at-will stances and encounter powers and class features above first level to augment it. You disagree. To each their own.
These sub-class kits have different base skills, by the way.
And call it what you like, "very reasonable", "almost certain", the fact is that it's not 100% confirmed, verified, and announced.
Wether the complete restructing of power progression for a class is more or less of a departure than changing a mostly arbitrary lable for a suite of powers belonging to a class is entirely subjective.
For instance, I think replacing one keyword on an at-will/encounter/daily power is a heck of a lot less of a change than deciding your class makes only base attacks, and has at-will stances and encounter powers and class features above first level to augment it. You disagree. To each their own.
Different base skills isn't the same as different basic training.
When I talk about basic training I'm talking about the fundimentals. What a Wizard learned before they ever started using Prestidigitation or cast Magic Missile. The very very basics where they first learned to harness the Arcane power and start to learn to mold it into their spells.
Now yes, this is obviously a fluff issue not a mechanic issue, however fluff does actually matter and is considered at least to a degree in things like this.
Anyways, I highly doubt you and I are going to end up agreeing on this.
Things like Dark Sun's Themes having their own power sources, so that your Essentials Slayer fighter can be a Templar with arcane attacks, with no additional resources like multiclassing feats invested in doing so... I'm just seein some barriers being broken down.
As for fluff training, I think that's a perfectly mutable thing about a class. Take the Knight and Arena Fighter for instance. They're both builds of the Fighter class, but I'm pretty sure there are going to be different ideas about how they trained and developed their skills.
Bringing this back to the Wizard, I can see "Wizard Training" being a general take on the "bookworm spellcaster". What would the difference be if he was reading books on arcane theory, or shadow craft? If it's a guy in a robe that memorizes his powers out of a spellbook, it's a Wizard to me, regardless of what powersource and basic fundamental skills he's learned from books.
But again, not trying to step on your toes. I'm just trying to encourage others to keep their minds open about change.
Is it the overwhelming liklihood? Yes. Points to note:
1) "Heroes of Shadow" is for the shadow power source, and so far base classes have stuck to one source.
2) Necromancers are mentioned as a class in the Shadow power source in the 4e previews books.
3) Necromancers and Hexblades are mentioned in the same line as assassins in the product description, in a way that suggests that all three are equivalent.
4) The essentials books product descriptions mentioned "fighters" and "wizards", not "knights" and "mages".
Again, 100% sure? No. But overwhelmingly likely, to the point that it better fits into "the things we know" column then it does into the "educated guesses" column. The book is far enough out that even the things we know could change, so none of it is 100% sure.
But people expecting a book primarily filled with new options for existing classes are very likely to be dissapointed.
I'm just hoping with all my might that they not repeat the Swordmage mistake with this book. I mean, the Hexblade has the word "blade" in its name, so shouldn't that mean that they should only be able to use light blades, heavy blades and other such weapons? Because we certainly can't have someone going around and being a member of a class called "HexBLADE" (the class being something the character may not even be aware of, any more than he's aware of hp, levels, or feats) and using something that isn't a blade.
For the sake of all that's sane, please keep whoever it was that decided that the Swordmage should only be able to use blades as far away as humanly possible from this book.
I'm just hoping with all my might that they not repeat the Swordmage mistake with this book. I mean, the Hexblade has the word "blade" in its name, so shouldn't that mean that they should only be able to use light blades, heavy blades and other such weapons? Because we certainly can't have someone going around and being a member of a class called "HexBLADE" (the class being something the character may not even be aware of, any more than he's aware of hp, levels, or feats) and using something that isn't a blade.
For the sake of all that's sane, please keep whoever it was that decided that the Swordmage should only be able to use blades as far away as humanly possible from this book.
Axes have blades as well ;P
I wouldn't be surprised if Hexblades are only proficient with Light blades and Heavy blades.
Not only that, Axes are in the Heavy Blade category, so they are MECHANICALLY blades as well.
Wait, what?
Axes are thier own category...
Not only that, Axes are in the Heavy Blade category, so they are MECHANICALLY blades as well.
Wait, what?
Axes are thier own category...
Woops!
My bad. I was misremembering. Maybe I saw the Khopesh and mistook that… or maybe I misremembered from a previous edition or something. I should double-check my sources before saying something like that again.
Sorry.
As a new wizard build, the necromancer...
* cannot multiclass or hybrid with wizard
* can use any, all, or none of the wizard class features, as displayed in known essentials previews.
* has access to wizard feats and can also have its own feats
* can access all existing wizard options that don't require arcane power source such as paragon paths and epic destinies
* likely uses the same key abilities like Int with Con secondary (similar to a summoner)
As a new class, the necromancer
* can multiclass or hybrid with wizard
* gains its own unique class features that may or may not be similar to the wizard, but need to be individual enough to warrant an entire class.
* needs its own suite of feats to help support it
* would need to support 2 or more separate builds which can be expounded on in future splat books.
* needs its own paragon paths and possibly even an epic destiny which help flavor the idea of necromancy and its individual focuses.
* can have key abilities that fit in line with what its like to be a necromancer, possibly Con and either Intelligence or Charisma secondary.
In the end, it could actually be both. As wizards said before, some things like necromancer and illusionist can be their own class, and wizard can have some spells from both, but would use each as flavor for his method of magic without taking the plunge.
I'm aware that Essentials is being advertised as using the same ruleset as 4E. Whether you make a Rogue as per the PHB or via the means in whichever book the Essentials Rogue comes out in, once the campaign starts and you're going through encounters, you use the same rules, by and large.
However, having looked through the Essentials previews, it strikes me that while the gameplay won't change with Essentials, the character creation and customization will. For instance, exactly how would multiclassing, hybridizing, and power-swapping work with Essentials? Considering that it's being likened to getting (paraphrasing) "onto the 4E highway at Exit 1 instead of Exit 10", I'm kind of suspicious that so-called advanced options such as these won't even be in the Essentials ruleset.
Which is fine for classes like the Knight, Thief, Mage, and Warpriest, since they already have "Exit 10" versions with the full suite of customization available to them. But what about these Shadow classes? Are they going to be made in the traditional 4E manner, compatible in all respects with the rest of 4E, or will they be Essentials classes, capable of being involved in a complete and balanced manner in the same encounters as the rest of 4E, but cut off with respect to MCing, Hbing, etc.?
I mean, this isn't necessarily a problem with the Assassin, as I can do about as much with that class as I can with any other non-Essentials class, thanks to the DDI version. If the book version ends up being the Essentials version with the character creation compatibility reduced as a result, I can safely ignore the book version in favor of the DDI version.
But what about the Hexblade and the Necromancer? I'm sure I echo a number of people when I say that I want to be able to bend and stretch those classes around at least as much as I can any other class in the game.
So towards the top of the thread, I believe I read that this book is going to be an Essentials product. I have no real investment in that, one way or another, save that I hope being in an Essentials product doesn't do to these classes what I think it'll do. Here's hoping we get full classes.
Alternatively, they could offer them on DDI for those who are interested. You're right that it's a pretty advanced option....although...
Hmm...multiclassing (what we'd call a hybrid now) WAS possible back in first edition. As for the classes in Heroes of Shadow, I bet the hybrid versions of those will eventually end up on DDI (if they aren't just in Heroes of Shadow). Or they might have to wait for PHB4.
PHBIII made hybrids and multiclasses work for Psionic characters, who deviated pretty dramatically from the PHBI advancement tree, if not quite as dramatically as the Martial classes in the essentials books.
As the Shadow power source is 'magicky' in nature, I would expect the shadow classes to follow the more traditional powers structure, similar to the essentials cleric or wizard, which makes traditional multiclassing and hybrids more viable. Of course, the hexblade is a magical dude who hits a guy, so we might see something different there - I'd be keeping a close eye on the essential's paladin.
At the moment, I fully expect that Heroes of Shadow will contain both regular multiclassing and hybrid rules for each of the classes in it, but I admit that I don't have anything to base that on*. Coming up with such rules isn't the hardest thing in the world, though. If the book doesn't provide it, I trust the community will - first on forums for playtesting and then as submissions to Dragon Magazine to be made official and incorporated into the builder.
In short, such rules may or may not make it into the book, but there's no reason to worry about it yet, and even if they don't make it in, the gap will likely be filled by Dragon Magazine shortly thereafter.
---------------------
While The essentials books are designed for 'beginners', there's no reason to think the options books will be as well. By their very nature, they're expansions onto the new core of the game, and will almost certainly be allowed to be more complex in nature. The book layout may be the same, and some class design philosophy (specificaly class features beyond level one, and an allowance for greater deviation from the normal advancement tree) will carry over, but the 'targeted at new or returning players unfamiliar with 4e' part of essentials is unlikely to make its way into other books.
*actually, there was one designer comment on the essentials previews about a cleric grabbing shadow powers from Heroes of Shadow. Some have taken that to mean the book will include a bunch of options specifically for previous classes, but it seems far more likely to me that this is referring to the power-swapping kind of multiclassing. So there's at least that much circumstantial evidence that multiclassing will be supported in Heroes of Shadow.
4-6 races. Most likely reprinting Shadarkai and Revenant with variable stat bonuses, and perhaps some Goblinoids or Kobolds too. Though, frankly, I think it's more likely they'll just make up two new races completely out of left field (like Shardmind) or make-over some obscure race from 3.x that no one really remembers (like Wilden).
New Assassin build options (I doubt they will reprint the original class features).
New Assassin Powers; I wouldn't be surprised to see the new builds swallow the
Illusionist/Beguiler, and Shadowcaster, since the Assassin is already heavily sub-controller, and already have feat support for Fear/Illusion powers.
Hexblade; I predict two builds, one sub-striker, one sub-leader (so all you blackguard people will quit whining). Stats will most likely be Cha, Con or Wis (unless there's a light armor build, then it'll probably be Cha, Con or Dex/Int).
Necromancer; 2 builds, one sub-defender (summoner?), one sub-leader (so all you shadow leader people will quit whining). Stats will almost certainly be Int, Cha or Wis. Implements will almost certainly include the Staff, and possibly the Orb and Dagger. Tomes would be awesome too, but very unlikely.
It's most likely that each class will get four PPs (maybe more, but I'm not counting on more than 6), as well as hybrid options and one or two multi-class feats (paragon multiclass options are unlikely, because WotC seems to have realized that PMC sucks and is a complete waste of page space)
A bunch of shadow theme powers taking up roughly the same space as a full class from the previous power splat books (perhaps including PPs for Shadow/___ combo characters). I predict there will either be a theme for each other power source, or a small number of shadow-themed powers for specific classes (Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, Druid, etc.), probably no more than 10 a piece.
Feats. Probably as many as your average splat book, and probably less for the Assassin than the others, since it already has a lot of feats in Dragon. I hope there are no reprints of Dragon feats, but I wouldn't put it past them to save them the trouble of coming up with new ones.
The book will probably contain rituals with a shadow theme, and/or magic items the new classes can use (this is especially likely if the Necro uses Orbs or Tomess). It will also contain epic destinies (hopefully not the crappy class-specific ones from PHB3).
That's my 2 cents.
Shadow Themed powers for previous classes simply aren't that likely. Power source crossover paragon paths (ie, paths requiring "Arcane + Shadow" or "Divine + Shadow" are more likely, but not super likely.
Remember that at the time that designer comment was made, people on the forums were freaking out about essentials classes not being compatible with anything outside of essentielas, or about previous classes not being compatible with anything post essentials, so insisting that clerics will still be able to multiclass with future classes clearly wasn't a given.
If the book includes standard power swapping multiclassing, that would constitute a cleric being able to take shadow powers from heroes of shadow. So the statment would be correct, and not a lie. It also would have been a perfectly appropriate answer in the context of the freaking out at the time. It would not constitute designers leading you on.
I'm not saying there definitely won't be powers for previous classes, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem likely given the books seemingly narrow focus and very limited page space given what we already are guessing is going to be in it (again, more then one full class write up, three full classes with the required class features - and there are more of those per class then there used to be, paragon paths, epic destinies, powers, and feats, racial feats, and racial paragon paths and epic destinies, all crammed into the same page space as a powers splatbook). I won't tell you what to expect or hope for, I certainly don't have any inside information myself, I'm just saying don't be dissapointed if standard multiclassing is all the cleric (and other previous classes) get in this book.
However, I'm sure that most here already know that for clerics and paladins of a good deity, taking shadow powers means walking a very fine line. Avengers and invokers probably wouldn't have much compunction about doing so, nor would clerics and paladins of unaligned deities (or evil ones, duh
).Perhaps the Hexer would be the Shadow Pact warlock...who knows?
THE SHADOW KNOWS!!!!!! (sorry, couldn't resist)
just as an aside, I'd really like to see D&D take another look at the spiked-chain weapon. Maybe something other than the dated multiclass feats. Maybe a Paragon Path devoted to the spike chain. I don't think it has super strong ties to the Shadow power source, but it's certainly a weapon with a "dark" tint to it. Shardar-Kai reprint as far as races go too.
I thought flails as a whole category needed support.
just as an aside, I'd really like to see D&D take another look at the spiked-chain weapon. Maybe something other than the dated multiclass feats. .
To take your aside a step further . . . I'd like to see the essentials fighter really glom onto using weapons in different ways. I like the idea of stances, but also like that an attack with a chain may have a different 'kicker' than one with a sword.
They've dabbled in this but not pushed it.
Anyways back to Heroes of Shadow -- Can't wait to see the Necromancer!
That being said, I hope it's a one-power-source-only Player's Handbook. I expect Revenants to be in it, as well as maybe Shadar-Kai.
It says in the splat that Assassins, Necromancers, and Hexblades will be in it. I'm looking forward to it, if it's not just an essentials book.
We'll have to wait and see, at least a little while, for more info.
So it's possible that Assassins, Necromancers and Hexblades will get subclasses like the Essentials classes, and even one of the subclasses might have a different role from one of the other subclasses of the same class.
It's being advertised as "Player's Option: Heroes of Shadow" so who knows if it'll be essentials or "core."
That being said, I hope it's a one-power-source-only Player's Handbook. I expect Revenants to be in it, as well as maybe Shadar-Kai.
It says in the splat that Assassins, Necromancers, and Hexblades will be in it. I'm looking forward to it, if it's not just an essentials book.
We'll have to wait and see, at least a little while, for more info.
Note that a recent update has stated that assassins will not be included in the book. I personally belive this is because they decided against making an "assassin" subclass of rogue while there already exists an assassin class. I maintain my belief that necromancers and hexblades will be subclasses of wizards and fighters. After all, it turns out the ROLE of a subclass can differ from the parent class, why not the power source?
Obviously, we'll have to wait untill the book comes out to know more.
I personally hope the necromancer won't just be a subclass of wizard - because if it is it will either be a wizard in name only (sharing no class features, little in the way of powers, and less in the way of feats), or it will simply fail to deliver as a necromancer (the core concept of which is undead pets, making the necro a pet class of some kind or bust). The summon rules in 4e simply do not do a good job of representing animated undead of the type a necromancer would, imo, require in order to deliver on the concept.
Then again, the Knight is a fighter in name only, sharing no class features, and little in the way of powers and feats, so it's not entirely without precedent.
Anyway, yeah, still have my fingers crossed for full classes. The Hexblade and Necromancer concepts are rich and deep enough to support full classes with multiple builds. If that's not what we get, I for one will certainly be dissapointed.
I can only hope that they've realized how badly the assassin needs help. Given that even the lackluster support they got in the last class acts article was nerfed on the way to the builder, well I'm not at all confident. Seriously, somebody over at Wizards seems to have it in for this class.
We'll know in, what? November? When Heroes of the Fallen Lands hits. That's when the assassin build is supposed to hit Dragon now, if the reports out of Gencon are to be believed. Which is either half a year early, or half a year late, depending on how you look at things.
I can only hope that they've realized how badly the assassin needs help. Given that even the lackluster support they got in the last class acts article was nerfed on the way to the builder, well I'm not at all confident. Seriously, somebody over at Wizards seems to have it in for this class.
.... Obviously thaX works for WotC.
After all, it turns out the ROLE of a subclass can differ from the parent class, why not the power source?
Because then the subclass would have nothing in common with the class and the concept of having more than one class would be made pointless.
I would do that for any exclusive material that Dragon has (what, about five things so far?) and end the farce of the numbered issues completely, but that is a different issue.
If I worked for WotC, the Assassin, having been put there already, would have a separate download in DDi worked out like a pamphlet or mini book, and any support it would have be added pages, the various articles referenced at the top of the pages.
I would do that for any exclusive material that Dragon has (what, about five things so far?) and end the farce of the numbered issues completely, but that is a different issue.
That's actually a really good idea.
If I want to get all the Dragon content that gives extra options for (say) the sorcerer, I should be able to just click on a single link and download a PDF that contains all the Dragon sorcerer articles in one document. I should not have to search the Compendium for 'sorcerer', then go through each item individually, cross-referencing to the issue # each one is in, then download every issue that contains a sorcerer article (since only the compiled issues have the finished 'correct' versions of each article) and then have to print each article out separately.
I think so too. I'd just like to reiterate however that I do think your stance has merit. It is a pretty unlikely change. I honestly mostly doubt it will happen. But I'm not going to be scandalized if it does, because what I'm seeing with these Essentials previews are major assumptions about "what is 4e" being turned on their heads and a general broadening of 4e's horizons.
Things like Dark Sun's Themes having their own power sources, so that your Essentials Slayer fighter can be a Templar with arcane attacks, with no additional resources like multiclassing feats invested in doing so... I'm just seein some barriers being broken down.
As for fluff training, I think that's a perfectly mutable thing about a class. Take the Knight and Arena Fighter for instance. They're both builds of the Fighter class, but I'm pretty sure there are going to be different ideas about how they trained and developed their skills.
Bringing this back to the Wizard, I can see "Wizard Training" being a general take on the "bookworm spellcaster". What would the difference be if he was reading books on arcane theory, or shadow craft? If it's a guy in a robe that memorizes his powers out of a spellbook, it's a Wizard to me, regardless of what powersource and basic fundamental skills he's learned from books.
But again, not trying to step on your toes. I'm just trying to encourage others to keep their minds open about change.
Please excuse the thread necromancy, but I figured since we just got a taste of new Shadow content with the Essentials Assassin being posted, it might be relevant.
So, the Executioner is a first for 4th edition. A dual power source build. It is both martial AND shadow. This is very interesting.
So, what do people think of the idea of the Necromancer being billed as a new build for the Wizard that just uses Shadow magic instead of Arcane? Given the Executioner, I think it's even more likely.
Please excuse the thread necromancy, but I figured since we just got a taste of new Shadow content with the Essentials Assassin being posted, it might be relevant.
So, the Executioner is a first for 4th edition. A dual power source build.
It is both martial AND shadow. This is very interesting.
So, what do people think of the idea of the Necromancer being billed as a new build for the Wizard that just uses Shadow magic instead of Arcane? Given the Executioner, I think it's even more likely.
Exactly. And the Hexblade is a Warlock that also gets an 'option' to use the Shadow source.
It seems to me, reading between the lines, the designers are backing away from shadow as a power source. In other words, you no longer need the shadow power source because now you can just be a martial Assassin.
Im still unclear about the motive:
• Do the designers deem shadow untenable, like they did the ki source?
• Are they catering to retro Assassins who were a martial 'theif subclass'?
• Are they going for 'ninja' flavor that is primarily martial with occasional magical effects?
Noticeably, all first level abilities save the ki focus (which is potentially non-source-specific) are martial.
Basically, shadow seems like a 'theme' to add to a class, rather than a class power source per se. Will the future of the elemental source look similar? This wont have much bearing in 'everything is core' campaigns, because the shadow source will still be a fact.
Still, what are the implications of arcane-divine-primal-and-martial being the only Essential sources 'going forward'. It seems to me like they are backing away from psionic too.