Same with pc/console games. After neverwinter nights 2, is something being developed? (not including the MMORPG game)
Fisheyes
Good thread; I'd like to know more about these efforts, too.
My wife and I just watched a Dragonlance animated film ("Dragons of Autumn Twilight"), and it was indeed "decent and watchable." I'd enjoy more of these, even of the "direct-to-DVD" variety.
While I wouldn't wet my pants over it, the Drizzt novels seem popular and perfectly suited to an animated treatment. The characters are also clear and sharp, IMO.
Dark-elves are written and drawn as white guys with black skin. If a white actor is cast and has his skin painted, al sharpton and jesse jackson will boycott the movie. If a black actor is cast, lots of d&d fans won't accept it like they didn't accept Snails (marlon wayans). The solution is probably a light skinned black guy with painted skin. Hear me now and believe me later!
Right Anchovy, the dragonlance cartoon was not great, but good enough to spend an hour and a half watching. I want 10 more. Even if they are low quality bombs. Same with pc/console games. It doesn't have to be up to baldur's gate standards. Just give me something that isn't a life-destroying MMORPG.
We need some d&d movies/cartoons and non-MMO games!!!
Fisheyes
I gotta disagree with Fisheyes. I want D&D games that are better quality than BG (both PC and console) since those games are very old. They were good back in the day, but even stuff like D&D heroes (xbox), ToEe (pc) and pool of radiance are not on par with todays choices.
I wouldn't expect the best game ever created, but we're getting some seriously great games soon and a D&D game has to be able to make money. With things like Diablo 3, SC2, Guildwars 2, Dragon Age and so much more, a D&D game really needs to bring something great to the table, or risk being ignored by a large majority.
Just remember what happened with Dragonshard. (a game I enjoyed BTW) Dragonshard's lifespan was about 45 minutes.
But, I support the "no more damn mmos!" feeling, as I like to both enjoy a beatable game and have a life without being the least effective person in the game. Mmos require a level of dedication I simply am unwilling to give. I like the outside far too much.
Yeah, both the setting and the character are iconic. (Include a cool clean-cut Wizard too.)
'But I can see one problem. It's kind of a racial landmine. Dark-elves are written and drawn as white guys with black skin.'
Make the Drow skin color 'indigo'. This puts a 'lampshade' over any racial implications. It emphasizes their inhuman alien quality. Drow look more Hindu than African anyway, with Indo-Euro features, straight hair, and dark skin. Imbue Drizzt with exotic Hindu vibe.
You are right, we need to beat a game and complete it. If I want something that never ends, and keeps sucking me back in and ruining my life, I'll start up a heroin addiction.
Haldrik, indigo could work, that's kind of getting into avatar territory. Maybe a really dark purple. I thought about an indian, and india is full of experienced actors who speak english, and there's lots of indian-americans here, but my guess is america is not ready for indian heroes. Maybe I am wrong. An arab or middle easterner might fit a little better, but america's even less ready for that.
The main thing all this does is put the new MMO that Atari had been working to make on haitus, and possibly be canceled if Atari loses the license. (doubtful if any new takers on this "brand" would use the work done, opting to start new)
Movies are another mess. The new Dragonlance animated are much like the Last Airbender movie out now, abbreviated and leaving out a lot of the story, making it an insider piece that is only understood by those that already know the story. I think the D&D movie made the fatal mistake of having Wizards be the default rulers of the area the story was in, and it suffered because of it. All the heart went out of the move when the comedy relief was killed. (I forget the actor/silly man's name) It is all up to original authers of the books for the Dragonlance direct to DVD/BluRay releases.
As far as what kind of game it could be, I am thinking something like the Arena (Daggerfall) games.
A Drizzt movie would be great. That is the best possible d&d movie. But I can see one problem, which I guess people have discussed on here many times, but it is new to me. It's kind of a racial landmine.
That depends - if it's the Icewind Dale trilogy things would work all right. The prequel trilogy would be a problem.
I would be interested in a new film but like other posters say NOT DRIZT. Perhaps a decent alternative story line could have the Seven Sisters, Cadderley or even the Shandril Saga (I like FR, just not that dark elf guy
). Actually anything like that could work for me providing the BBEG doesn't have blue lipstick and really badly written script.
I just watched afro samurai resurrection on hulu.com (first time ever seeing that show) and I enjoyed it. Even though he's the silent bad ass, he still got pretty messed up. I wouldn't mind a FR movie like that.
As for live action D&D, HELL NO! No more! Please no! Low budget, B-rate- straight to DVD bargain bin D&D movies are hopefully a thing of the shameful past. I'd rather watch percy jackson, lightning thief or clash of the titans. If D&D can't bring the same quality, they should stay out of the movie business. D&D is already an embarrassment when it comes to movies. Seriously. Horrible graphics wouldn't be that bad if it weren't coupled with the worst dialog ever. Stick to cartoons.
Duke, I mean they don't have to be up to baldur's gate standard when it was released. Sure, any game has to be better than BG today. But in 1998 that was an advanced and innovative game. There was nothing like it. We don't need a game that will revolutionize CRPG's. We just need something new to play, haha.
Ok, I get watcha mean now and I agree. It doesn't need to be ground breaking, but it needs to be on par with the other choices we have.
Preferably with HD resolutions. Dragonshard was pretty bad but I'd rather there was another bad release like dragonshard (with today's graphics and technology) than nothing at all.
Dragonshard was playable offline, so I'll agree with you to that point. I'd like a new D&D game too!
You are right, we need to beat a game and complete it. If I want something that never ends, and keeps sucking me back in and ruining my life, I'll start up a heroin addiction.
Rofl. Seriously. I still play BG SoA, IwD 1 and HoW, Torment, PoR and ToEe. I'v never had the neverwinter nights games. (shock! Gasp!) I bought the platinum edition for NvN before but for some reason, it wouldn't work on any computers I tried it on, so I returned it. Which sucks cause I really, REALLY wanted to check that game out. Especially the newer one with the ability to create your own content. That's damn near a nerdgasm.
Too be fair, one of my favorite movies of all time has over the top swordplay, the Matrix. Forgotten Realms also has the potential to be stylish.
Duke: 'If they made a drizzt movie, I'd actually want it to be anime style. I mean, his swordplay is so over the top.'
Too be fair, one of my favorite movies of all time has over the top swordplay, the Matrix. Forgotten Realms also has the potential to be stylish.
With the amount of hatred the matrix got, I'm surprised you admitted to enjoying those movies. I'm also a pretty big fan. But I'm afraid if I see drizzt sword fight in slow motion, I might throw up.
Would that be like casting american actors to play oriental characters?
Whooo!!! John Wayne as Genghis Khan!
On the other hand, I did enjoy Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God. The main reason I liked it was because it was a story of good v. evil, without being pretentious or anti-Christian (yes, I'm a Christian, an Independent Baptist to be precise; but PLEASE don't confuse me with Fred Phelps, the man is NOT a Christian).
I also liked the affection between Berek and Melora, as well as the kindness and wisdom of Dorian.
Also enjoyable was the deliciously selfish wickedness of Klaxx the Malign, the lich, and how he offered his services to Damodar so that he could contribute to the downfall of Ismir. And when Damodar's plans fell apart, he happily abandons the wizard to his fate.
PLEASE don't confuse me with Fred Phelps, the man is NOT a Christian).
Hey, I heard he isn't even a true Scotsman!
Would that be like casting american actors to play oriental characters?
That depends. Do white Americans have a history of enslaving 'Oriental' people? ;)
Make the Drow skin color 'indigo'. This puts a 'lampshade' over any racial implications. It emphasizes their inhuman alien quality. Drow look more Hindu than African anyway, with Indo-Euro features, straight hair, and dark skin. Imbue Drizzt with exotic Hindu vibe.
People already complain about drow in D&D art being portrayed with dark purple or grey, rather than properly black, skin. I don't think making their skin 'indigo' would even be necessary. Drow are very obviously not African-Americans. Literally nobody of any consequence is going to see an actor made up to look like a drow and genuinely believe that it's racist. Drow have absolutely jet-black skin (not some shade of dark brown), white hair, pointy ears and eye-colours that would require coloured contacts for any human actor. They don't look anything like actual human 'black' people.
People need to stop shrieking about those horrid OMGPCNAZIS RUINING EVERYTHING FOREVER. If you're not actually doing/saying anything racist or otherwise bigoted, the odds of you getting genuinely accused of it are really pretty low. And the odds of anybody sane taking such accusations seriously are even lower. Seriously, White America, you're not being persecuted. Honest.
People need to stop shrieking about those horrid OMGPCNAZIS RUINING EVERYTHING FOREVER. If you're not actually doing/saying anything racist or otherwise bigoted, the odds of you getting genuinely accused of it are really pretty low. And the odds of anybody sane taking such accusations seriously are even lower. Seriously, White America, you're not being persecuted. Honest.
QFT. Any you're from across the pond, right?
People need to stop shrieking about those horrid OMGPCNAZIS RUINING EVERYTHING FOREVER. If you're not actually doing/saying anything racist or otherwise bigoted, the odds of you getting genuinely accused of it are really pretty low. And the odds of anybody sane taking such accusations seriously are even lower. Seriously, White America, you're not being persecuted. Honest.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_abou...
People need to stop shrieking about those horrid OMGPCNAZIS RUINING EVERYTHING FOREVER. If you're not actually doing/saying anything racist or otherwise bigoted, the odds of you getting genuinely accused of it are really pretty low. And the odds of anybody sane taking such accusations seriously are even lower. Seriously, White America, you're not being persecuted. Honest.
QFT. Any you're from across the pond, right?
If your saying, is he British, then I wouldn't say that that si an excuse for that comment. I'm from the UK, and in my English class there is a boy who has pitch black skin. As dark as you can get. Its not that rare, if you walk down the street to see someone of a similar tone.
If you were saying, is he American, then I would point out that they have a massive black proportion of their population compared to anywhere in europe and should know most colours possible in humans.
So either way, it could easily be taken as racist, especially as the rest of the drow are pure evil. That could be taken in bad ways. It shouldn't, but it could, and it would.
TFL
The first D&D movie had a lot of flaws and nobody really liked it but was still profitable enough to spawn a sequel. I actually liked the sequel better.
Duke, if a direct to dvd release is done right and is profitable (and hopefully accepted by critics), it proves to studios that the franchise is ready for a bigger budget adaptation. Right now they are probably hesitant to drop $100 million on something that they don't have much evidence will turn a profit. Those baby steps can be helpful to the brand and the viability of a big screen adaptation.
I had that problem with neverwinter nights too. I had to wait 3 or 4 years because my computer's video card wouldn't run it. Most computers nowadays can probably run it with no problem. Neverwinter nights is nowhere near the level of those infinity engine games, but it's still worth playing and........much better than dragonshard, haha.
Duskweaver, that racial oversensitivity stuff is real. There are hundreds or even thousands of organizations in america that probably consist of a director and a secretary but they are waiting to issue a statement about an imaginary boycott (we'll know because the media will tell us and publish their statements about how offended they are), and that will scare the movie studios because it can kill the buzz about their movies and also influence critics. Drizzt is a slippery slope because of that. Elminster would be great and he could ride on Gandolf's coat tails, but he can't be the main character. Old people don't really make good main characters. Rambo and Indiana Jones look younger than the actors portraying them. Elminster looks a couple weeks away from a pine box. Luckily we have more than just Drizzt and Elminster to choose from.
As far as I know, the characters for both live actions movies were created from scratch. Probably a mistake.
As a plot device, the wizard city made sense and allowed them to have powerful artifacts that let them control dragons and lead to a dragon war and throw in lots of magic and special affects for people to see. It wasn't scripted well enough. I was able to watch the movie without being too disgusted but it could have been so much better. Jeremy Irons was ok as the villain but the other actors weren't too memorable. A heavy dose of Ron Perlman would have made it more palatable.
As for the bald guy with the blue lipstick, when I watched it in the theater I kept thinking HEY BOY, YOU LIKE GIRLS OR WHAT????
I couldn't get over the bald dude with the blue lips. He was ridiculous.
Yeah, in a movie filled with crappy characters and horrible dialog, he remains king of the dung-hill.
@ Fisheyes. I have no faith in live action D&D movies. They always suck, they're always filled with B-rate dialog and painfully horrible graphics. Percy Jackson - Lightning Thief is a kids movie and it's a billion times better than anything D&D has ever come out with. And I'm just talking about those stupid looking hellhounds. When it comes to the Hydra.... What D&D fan didn't drool over that?
Now, they COULD make a successful "block buster" D&D movie if they dropped the same kind of money and had someone who could actually write a good script do the job. And they should do their best to make the movies lack "inside jokes and inside nerd moments" that only D&D fans will get. Throw in ONE, maybe TWO at the MOST! But don't make a D&D movie for D&D fans. Make a D&D movie that everyone will enjoy. Clash of the Titans wasn't made specifically for Clash fans, but it was still excellent and Clash fans got to have an "inside fan-nerd" moment with Bubo, where as anyone not knowing jack about the original Clash asked "what the hell was that metal owl?"
I'd love to have a great D&D movie. Tiamat done to the same quality as the Kraken? Um, Hell Yes! But no more, I repeat, No more movies that are garbage. Even Ps2 Final Fantasy CG was better than anything D&D ever did. (movie wise)
I just don't understand who keeps making these flops and why? This is why I'm Pro-cartoon D&D, because even though the Dragonlance movie wasn't as good as it could have been, it was infinitely better than the live action D&D movies.
As for NwN. It wasn't a problem with my video card. I'm not sure what the problem was. I run stuff like dawn of war Soulstorm and guildwars perfectly fine. (although eye of the north has areas my video card doesn't support, so I use 3danalyzer when I'm in those areas so my pc can run them)
This pc is about 5 years old, so I can play lots of older games no problem, but for anything new, I need a new pc. This pc cannot run Dragonshard or Mark of Chaos. Mark of Chaos kills my Vid card, but dragonshard doesn't run for some other reason. Since my laptop blew up, I'v been unable to play those games.
Fisheyes: 'Elminster would be great and he could ride on Gandolf's coat tails, but he can't be the main character. Old people don't really make good main characters [for action movies]. Rambo and Indiana Jones look younger than the actors portraying them. Elminster looks a couple weeks away from a pine box.'
Yeah, but its magic. Elminster could be 3000 years old but use spells to appear as young and healthy as a clean shaven 20 year old.
Its easy for a movie adaptation to do this.
Lower or mid-budget movies can be good. They need good writing and directing and acting. Not some uncreative hollywood garbage. A big budget can help but it can also hurt because it needs to have more mass appeal to be profitable. Does the budget have strings attached? Does the director have creative freedom? How many chefs are stirring the pot?
We're not gonna get a big budget d&d movie anytime soon. But we could get a $25 million dollar one. Enough to make a solid movie in the right hands. Imagine if roger corman was still making movies? Vincent Price would be strahd. I'm not interested in cartoons personally, but other people are.
Sure, they shouldn't make flops, they should make good movies. But if they really think the movie will flop, they wouldn't make the movie to begin with. They can't predict it with perfect accuracy.
Which is why I have no hope for a live action D&D movie. Perfect accuracy doesn't even factor in. It was like whomever created the D&D movies did a horrible job on purpose, or the people working on the films simply hated D&D and viewed the job as punishment. It's hard to create spawn something so completely terrible on accident, twice.
They could easily fix the "racist drow portrayal" thing. They could paint them purple
You might as well feature Illidan Stormrage instead, in that case.
You might as well feature Illidan Stormrage instead, in that case.
Isn't there a WoW movie already in the works?
I dunno. Vampires seem kinda popular. Maybe they should do something with Strahd and Ravenloft.
Generally, good fantasy films would help. The use of computer-generated animation should help many films these days.
Personally, I've tried to watch "Wrath of the Dragon God" twice, and haven't been able to make it beyond an hour in. Honestly, if they can't do better than this, then they should not attach "Dungeons & Dragons" to this kind of effort. No "Dungeons and Dragroans," please.
I saw "Troy" the other night, and thought they could have done more with the interplay between the gods and goddesses... this would have elevated it back to fantasy-like quality.
The original D&D movie was bad because it didn't even seem like a proper D&D plot.
Wrath of the Dragon God had the party being brought together for a quest, a Male Human Fighter, a Female Human Barbarian, a Male Human Cleric, a Female Elf Wizard and a Male Human Thief who was short enough to be a Halfling. That's a straight up stereotypical D&D party.
They also had some rather clever moments where the cleric thanks the tree before cutting it down, but the illusion cast by the Lich calls it a damn tree - giving a subtle clue that it wasn't the real cleric.
There was a ton of stuff in there which was cheesy, but at the same time stereotypical D&D party in a stereotypical D&D adventure, a party on the upper level of heroic tier having to save their land with the need to have some fights but also puzzle together some problems as it needs to be solved in the end with a macguffin.
Wrath of the Dragon God was at least an actual D&D movie. Dungeons & Dragons wasn't D&D at all, it was some sort of weird fantasy with D&D trappings like Abrams' Star Trek movie was a sci-fi movie with ST trappings but not actually a Star Trek movie.
Sorry I missed it.
They could easily fix the "racist drow portrayal" thing. They could paint them purple
As long as they don't paint a tiger purple again, like they did for the original Beastmaster movie. The dye they used was toxic, and killed the poor thing.
*smirk* You mean The Color Purple?
ADHadh: 'They could easily fix the "racist drow portrayal" thing. They could paint them purple.'
*smirk* You mean The Color Purple?
I prefer Deep Purple
You might as well feature Illidan Stormrage instead, in that case.
Isn't there a WoW movie already in the works?
Not really. Sam Raimi was hired for it but in a recent interview he stated there's no believable script ready and so he's gonna work on a more personal project for now. I wouldn't expect a WoW movie for 3 or more years, and if the game's lifespan and audience keeps the current trend, I wouldn't be surprised if the movie was simply canned later on.
The Drow!
Not content with the old "dark skin = evil" bit on its own, the drow one up other dark skinned evil versions of light skinned good races by barreling full on into "dark skin is in and of itself a curse - a punishment from God for how evil your ancesters were."
BUTWAIT, racefail only represents half of the Drow's achievements in the field of hilariously over-the-top tactlessness! Their entire society is also set up purely to play to male sexual fantasies! Run by dominatrixes, who punish men for their naughtiness with sexy whippings, and show how powerful and in control they are by wearing revealing sexy fetishwear at all times. That way the female characters can be the evil oppressors and still be completely defined by and subservient to the sexual fantasies of the assumed male audience, reducing them to objects that exist only to be simultaneously despised and lusted after!
WAITWHATSTHAT, they're also the archetypal matriarchal society by virtue of being practically the only one, and certainly the only one with much exposure? Implying that women-run societies are inherently badwrong? And as soon as dritz steps out of the underdark he ends up in a patriarchal human society where the women are totally subservient to the men, and that society is treated as right and good, totally reinforcing the 'women in positions of power = against the natural order' subtext!
All all without any conscious intent to offend, just the casual insult of deliberate carelessness!
BUTWAIT, racefail only represents half of the Drow's achievements in the field of hilariously over-the-top tactlessness! Their entire society is also set up purely to play to male sexual fantasies! Run by dominatrixes, who punish men for their naughtiness with sexy whippings, and show how powerful and in control they are by wearing revealing sexy fetishwear at all times. That way the female characters can be the evil oppressors and still be completely defined by and subservient to the sexual fantasies of the assumed male audience, reducing them to objects that exist only to be simultaneously despised and lusted after!
WAITWHATSTHAT, they're also the archetypal matriarchal society by virtue of being practically the only one, and certainly the only one with much exposure? Implying that women-run societies are inherently badwrong? And as soon as dritz steps out of the underdark he ends up in a patriarchal human society where the women are totally subservient to the men, and that society is treated as right and good, totally reinforcing the 'women in positions of power = against the natural order' subtext!
All all without any conscious intent to offend, just the casual insult of deliberate carelessness!
But Drow society is so hilariously, cartoonishly, ceaselessly, and cluelessly offensive (really, you couldn't do a better parody of the race and gender insecurities of the cliche D&D player base if you tried) that I doubt we'll ever see a serious motion picture that features them. Certainly nothing intended for theaters. Maybe a low-budget, direct to DVD thing from a smaller production company.
All that, and you can add the fact that Drizz't novels are also quite terrible from a narrative point of view. Really, Drows should be left to DMs to handle and avoid more public exposure because they're one of the most controversial - or downright immature - sides of the hobby.
Icewind Dale trilogy doesn't really deal with that though. It's more about Drizzt having to hide his features because everyone who sees him thinks he's evil. The story could be spun entirely from the point of view of a good elf who gets ostracised by almost every except a few close friends simply based on his appearance. Leave it up to the audience. Nobody needs to mention that in D&D the Drow actually are inherrently evil and the prejudice is a completely justified survival mechanism.
Aside from the fact that I doubt the narrative of the trilogy would hold together to the scrutiny of the masses, but exactly how do you introduce and explain Drizz't character without explaining drows?
However, if they were going to release a movie about D&D in order to promote it, highlight the best things and attract a new audience, I think they should stay well away from Drows of all kinds and alignements.
The ancients, including the Egyptians (and many cultures today), use black skin to personify black soil, thereby fertility, fecundity, wealth, and success.
For Drow, this archetype works well for the Fey themes of magic, luck, and sexuality - and particularly well for the underground ambiance.
Even if the demon Lolth twisted these traits to make them dysfunctional, the D&D core setting should portray the traits themselves (especially black skin) as good, an important part of the prefallen condition.
(Note, in the SW Asia where the soil is 'red', whence the biblical name 'Adam', and in E Asia where the soil is 'yellow', the soil color conveys analogous archetypes.)
Once again, the novels were targeted to an informed audience, which is a factor to consider; and I don't recall any Drizz't or Salvatore novel in general working particularly well overall, so I may be biased.
However, if they were going to release a movie about D&D in order to promote it, highlight the best things and attract a new audience, I think they should stay well away from Drows of all kinds and alignements.
The Cleric Quintet would be pretty solid.
On the other hand, the Darkwalker Trilogy would likely work a lot better.
Better make it about Kobolds instead.
Actually, in that thought, what better way to do a D&D movie than to feature Dragonborn? It is Dungeons and Dragons, after all.
That said, something about the war between Arkhosia and Bael Turath, or perhaps featuring the fall of Nerath would be cool.
Or set it in the Nentir Vale, and deal with one or more of these lost civilisations.
I'd like a movie dealing with the dawn war. The era when the war spills into the world and the primal spirits have to put a stop to the destruction of the planet. Non stop action, well written dialog in between decapitations and huge explosions, constant motion, as in, no tea breaks to look into hero A's personality or life pre-war.
The war, itself, is the star of the show and the main lead. The heroes on both sides of the war are the co-stars and supporting cast and the primal spirits are the plot twist at the end, leaving the ending open for speculation and a possible sequel.
The dawn war would make money as long as the CG is top notch. Huge primordial and astral armies clashing with mortals caught in the middle just trying to survive with the primal spirits as the final saviors of the planet.
Don't make it an "adventure" movie, since D&D adventure movies always seem to suck. Make it a war movie, keep the heroes on both sides interesting, but keep the spotlight on the action, not on the dialog. Saving private ryan + Clash of the titans + return of the king + troy.
Epic, in every sense of the word.
Tomb of horrors could be interesting, but I think people would just scream it was a tomb raider rip off. Kids these days. Plus, the entire appeal of the ToHis gruesome and clever PC death. I don't want a D&D movie to reflect that abomination "SAW". Mindless gore sucks, besides, D&D should avoid dim lightning in the movies. Dungeon crawl movies are never that good and ToH just wouldn't cut it. It would probably end up a flop.
ToEe would be a disaster. The movie would have to get chopped up to be the least bit interesting and to save time. The town section would have to be cut down to just a plot introduction and the rest removed and the temple adventure itself would have to be seriously cut up. It would end up being a dimly lit adventure movie. It would really have to be rewritten so people who have no idea about it could follow the plot. Fans of ToEe would hate the changes.
We need something that is new enough to allow creative changes without pissing off the fan base or boring movie goers. Which is why I think the dawn war would be perfect. We've seen hug mortal armies fight. We've seen super powerful heroes defeat massive odds and we've seen heroes take down powerful monsters. But we've never seen anything like the dawn war. Angels, archons, giants, titans, gods, primordials, elementals and primal spirits. Astral Abominations and the death of gods and primordials. (Io being split in two resulting in the birth of tiamat and bahamut!) The shattering of the astral domains, the birth of the abyss, the far realm spilling forth and being closed.
The dawn war really offers something special for a movie. But it depends entirely on big bucks and perfect CG with dialog and plot good enough to hold your attention through the movie. Think Avatar, but with better dialog. Non stop action is D&Ds best hope. Adventure driven movies have failed and I don't think D&D could pull off a serious story driven movie. No one but D&D fans cares about the lore or the famous characters. Most people will simply want to see awesome graphics, great action and something completely new. Otherwise, only D&D fans will go see it while everyone else goes to watch something else. Or saves their money. Movie tickets aren't cheap.
Tomb of horrors could be interesting, but I think people would just scream it was a tomb raider rip off. Kids these days. Plus, the entire appeal of the ToHis gruesome and clever PC death. I don't want a D&D movie to reflect that abomination "SAW". Mindless gore sucks, besides, D&D should avoid dim lightning in the movies. Dungeon crawl movies are never that good and ToH just wouldn't cut it. It would probably end up a flop.
ToEe would be a disaster. The movie would have to get chopped up to be the least bit interesting and to save time. The town section would have to be cut down to just a plot introduction and the rest removed and the temple adventure itself would have to be seriously cut up. It would end up being a dimly lit adventure movie. It would really have to be rewritten so people who have no idea about it could follow the plot. Fans of ToEe would hate the changes.We need something that is new enough to allow creative changes without pissing off the fan base or boring movie goers. Which is why I think the dawn war would be perfect. We've seen hug mortal armies fight. We've seen super powerful heroes defeat massive odds and we've seen heroes take down powerful monsters. But we've never seen anything like the dawn war. Angels, archons, giants, titans, gods, primordials, elementals and primal spirits. Astral Abominations and the death of gods and primordials. (Io being split in two resulting in the birth of tiamat and bahamut!) The shattering of the astral domains, the birth of the abyss, the far realm spilling forth and being closed.
The dawn war really offers something special for a movie. But it depends entirely on big bucks and perfect CG with dialog and plot good enough to hold your attention through the movie. Think Avatar, but with better dialog. Non stop action is D&Ds best hope. Adventure driven movies have failed and I don't think D&D could pull off a serious story driven movie. No one but D&D fans cares about the lore or the famous characters. Most people will simply want to see awesome graphics, great action and something completely new. Otherwise, only D&D fans will go see it while everyone else goes to watch something else. Or saves their money. Movie tickets aren't cheap.
It would end up being the upteem movie labeled as a souless CG monstruosity (think Star Wars) that doesn't really work in narrative terms and that anyone who's not into the D&D franchise would skip.
I personally wouldn't mind it, but somehow I don't see it happening.
I still think the most important aspect of D&D is character interaction. If you put aside dragons and demons and magic swords for a second, D&D is about a few guys sitting at a table playing pretend.
A D&D movie should be a fellowship movie.
In all honesty, the best D&D movie to day is A New Hope.
@ VisanidethDM: Agree on "Star Wars," especially the original trilogy. It's often been called science fantasy, and with elements like magic swords, princesses, siblings separated at birth, and so forth, it's easy to see why (plus a Fellowship, too). I was watching "A New Hope" recently, and thought that between the droids and other heroes, they are a well-balanced PC party with a range of skills.
Random pet peeve: no voice over historical back stories at the start of fantasy films! ("Eragon," et al.). I often find this heavy-handed and unnecessary, and I wonder why they can't do it in character in normal dialogue.
We need something that is new enough to allow creative changes without pissing off the fan base or boring movie goers. Which is why I think the dawn war would be perfect. We've seen hug mortal armies fight. We've seen super powerful heroes defeat massive odds and we've seen heroes take down powerful monsters. But we've never seen anything like the dawn war. Angels, archons, giants, titans, gods, primordials, elementals and primal spirits. Astral Abominations and the death of gods and primordials. (Io being split in two resulting in the birth of tiamat and bahamut!) The shattering of the astral domains, the birth of the abyss, the far realm spilling forth and being closed.
The dawn war really offers something special for a movie. But it depends entirely on big bucks and perfect CG with dialog and plot good enough to hold your attention through the movie. Think Avatar, but with better dialog. Non stop action is D&Ds best hope. Adventure driven movies have failed and I don't think D&D could pull off a serious story driven movie. No one but D&D fans cares about the lore or the famous characters. Most people will simply want to see awesome graphics, great action and something completely new. Otherwise, only D&D fans will go see it while everyone else goes to watch something else. Or saves their money. Movie tickets aren't cheap.
Dawn War would be a disastre due to to lack of relatable characters (the deities are not heroic beings by any measure, and then it just becomes a movie about watching the battle between two sides that are unlikeable, and even the Primal Spirits are difficult to jump on board with).
Not only that, but it would also be a disastre for DMs. In fact, I've changed my mind: I don't want a movie based on the fall of Nerath or the war between Arkhosia and Bael Turath, if only because I don't want the actual events described in detail. Once you set it in stone, it becomes like the Forgotten Realms: immutable lore, stifling creativity.
I don't use the core setting, but I do draw on some influences from it. But I know the vast majority of players do – and by establishing a core of what happened down to small details – like, say, seeing it with our own eyes or through a hero's eyes, rather than just hearing myths and legends about what happens that MAY OR MAY NOT be right – you destroy whatever space you have for creating the history yourself.
So instead, I would rather want a Fellowship-type adventure, but something rooted in the Nentir Vale setting. Make it a Heroic-Tier adventure, or LOW Paragon Tier, so that world-spanning ramifications don't occur. Draw on the fall of Nerath or Arkhosia or Bael Turath, and have the lore rooted in the movie, but don't ever tell "what really happened" or we either ruin DMs who had their own idea of "what really happened" and prevent further DMs from creating their own story of "what really happened."
That old stuff is better as muddled lore that you can't be sure which story is right and who were the good guys and what exactly happened, but you know what the ramifications of it were, and now you're feeling one or more of them as it takes centre stage in the campaign/film.
Oppositely, you could make both sides sympathetic and their unfolding war a heart wrenching tragedy.
Then it would have action and depth. It would need comic relief and end on a positive note, perhaps with the appearance of humans in the world. Humans by their very conflicting needs may one day hold the key for reconciling a sundered cosmos.
'Watching the battle between two sides that are unlikeable.'
Oppositely, you could make both sides sympathetic and their unfolding war a heart wrenching tragedy.
Then it would have action and depth. It would need comic relief and end on a positive note, perhaps with the appearance of humans in the world. Humans by their very conflicting needs may one day hold the key for reconciling a sundered cosmos.
Eh if you make both sides likable then it isn't really the Dawn War. Primordials are supposed to be alien minded beings that seek to continue a cycle that is all they can truly understand in the world.
Now then they could do the Dawn War as a series of movies following the mortal servitors of the gods during the Dawn War(I say series because there are too many major events to cover in a single movie).
Still, it is kinda sad to hurt 'mindless' monsters, like when the Rabbi of Prague returns the golem to death, or when the air force (?) kills King Kong.
Temple of Elemental Evil or the Tomb of Horrors could both be great movies. I'd like to see them attempted as movies.
Temple of Elemental Evil makes a horrible book. It is the worst fantasy novel I've ever read.
I doubt a movie would be any better.
The poor girl made good storyline would appeal to a wider audience, the locations are pretty epic and Spellfire alone has many of the iconic FR characters. Elminster, The Seven Sisters, The Harpers, The Knights of Myth Drannor, Zhents, Manshoon, Fzoul and The Cult of Dragons are just the ones that come off the top of my head as I type, and I havn't read it for years.
Providing it isn't made on a shoe string budget like both the previous D&D movies I think it would probably give quite a good representation of the setting.
Also there are absolutely no dark elves, even those wielding two scimitars.
Salvatore made Drizzt so popular that everyone wanted to play a Drizzt clone, so people had a backlash (generally all the fans of Drizzt in the first place) saying that he's actually horrible. Salvatore wrote a story that was good, too good in fact. Drizzt got popular, and because he got popular it got popular to bash him. Drizzt books are still selling very well, getting multiple reprints. A Drizzt movie would do quite well.
I feel the overall point by Duke is correct. The movie will be more successful (appeal to a wider audience) if it draws inspiration from a particular campaign setting rather than from a particular dungeon.
Such a setting-centric movie would also help gamers use the mechanics to build a vivid living story, and inspire noncombat social encounters - even if its a war set action movie.
The dislike for the drow has nothing to do with any reason anybody claims, other than it being RA Salvatore's fault.
My belief that drow society, and any story that heavily features it, is a poor choice for a mainstream audience, has nothing to due with Dritz clones (which I've never seen in person), or overpopularity (I'm bout the only person I know who's read any of the books), and everything to do with exactly the contents of my previous post.
Every aspect of Drow society is just hilariously offensive. They really are a recursive parody of cliche nerdly insecurities regarding race and gender. The only thing saving the Drow is the fact that their problematic aspects are unintentional, which, to me anyway, makes them funny and pathetic rather then fury-inducing. But I have heard from more then one person who didn't find them funny.
I just laugh about the drow issue. Things that don't matter don't bother me. Drow being black villains living underground ruled by extremely sexist feminists doesn't bother me and has never bothered anyone I'v met in this hobby. Then again, maybe it has bothered them but they were to embarrassed to admit it. Since it's kinda stupid.
People see what they want. People claim D&D is many things, racist, sexist, satanic and on and on. Maybe it's all of those things and everyone into this hobby continues to support it. "I hate drow because- but I'll still buy the books because - and I'll complain because..... Yeah, I don't care, I only worry about real issues.
Although, I will say that drow being black never made sense to me. Probably because I guess they should be very pale, like white ghosts.
-20 points if anyone gets mad at that bad joke. (if you even get it)
You may not have noticed it, and you may not care either way, but it is there, D&Ds race issues have and do bother people, and have been an impediment to the expansion of the hobby. Wizards has improved things somewhat, but this certainly isn't one of the prettier aspects of the D&D game, and isn't something I'd be excited to showcase to a mainstream audience in the form of a general release movie. Small release, direct to DVD, maybe? Even then, I think you could find a better standard bearer for the game.
An Icewind Dale animated DVD might side step the issue, then again I wasn't terribly impressed with the dragonlance animated movie, so I'm not exactly excited to see another one.
Honestly, there have been a number of attempts at D&D movies - theatrical or direct to video, live action or animated, new stories or adapted novels, and none of them have been very good, so I'm not sure why we'd want any more regardless.
D&D has always been eurocentric because it is a white man's game, as are roleplaying games in general. I don't have a problem at all with villains having black skin or being cursed by the gods with black skin. Black represents evil pretty universally. It's logical and makes sense.
Well, wow, I guess. Nice to know that if you don't have a problem with something, nobody else can or should. It's also good to know that D&D is for white people only. Also nice to see how your personal culture and experience means universally, and that it's only logical to see dark skin as a bad thing in and of itself, and ascribe it to the wikedness of person so 'afflicted'.
Normal americans don't care
Nice how normal = white. Classy.
And people wonder why gaming communities have such a bad rep for being exclusionary, if not downright racist. WotC has been working to shake that kind of image for D&D. Good for them.
What wizards don't have is a major production studio, or the funds and influence to hook a serious director. Race issues might not have been a significant impediment to the success of LotR or Avatar, but they were also huge productions with many millions of dollars behind them. The public laps up even garbage like Transformers 2 with that kind of special effects budget behind it. And while those movies don't exactly hide their race issues, they don't quite wallow in it the way traditional drow society does.
So yeah, while a Dritz story that focuses pretty exclusively on above ground adventures would be fine, I really don't think the classic Drow society is fit for much of anything, apart from dirisive laughter, or perhaps a sad shake of the head.
Fisheyes: 'D&D has always been eurocentric because it is a white man's game, as are roleplaying games in general.'
First, D&D isnt a 'white mans' game. My own gaming buddies have included Hispanic, Chinese, and Korean. Also they also include women.
The reason D&D has been eurocentric is the origins of the game derive from Euro mythology, especially thru Tolkien who himself was a scholar of the mythologies of ancient Northern Euro, including Norse, Celtic, Finnish, etcetera.
Regarding political correctness: these Euro origins are cool and fun. Whites have good reason to be proud of their Euro heritage. Euros didnt invent slavery but became the ones who *ended* it. Euros didnt invent dictatorship but ended it.
That said, D&D has zero intention of limiting itself to the Tolkien canon, and has continued to draw inspiration from Non-Euro mythologies too since its origins.
Anyway, I strongly agree with Malisteen about it being *embarassing* how D&D actually has text that calls dark skin a 'curse'. Id like WotC to errata the stupid comment out forever as soon as possible.
I dont think the 'curse' comment is racist per se. LOL! The entire Drow race virtually walks out of a chapter on Jungian psychology. They personify well Jungs concept of the human psyche with all of its unrealized possibilities (like women enjoying hegemony, etcetera). Their literally-black skin - 'soot' black like 'Cinder'-ella but polished into 'onyx' - symbolizes the 'hiddenness' of the unconsciousness that remains out of the conscious view. Similarly, their subterranean dwelling is out of view.
The Drow are a vibrant and fascinating archetype, and wildly popular. If anything, the Drow have only promoted the idea, 'black skin is cool'.
In D&D, 'dark and edgy' is 'cool'. There are even texts where being 'cursed' is meant to be appealing, like for the Tiefling.
Nevertheless, it is way too easy too misread the 'black skin curse' out of context as a racial slur. So much so, its embarassing. LOL! Its like seeing an artist who is unaware that her 'compelling' abstract painting looks extremely like a great big penis.
While the Drow are a vital part of D&D for many players, the 'black skin curse' is over the top, to the point of being irresponsible, and needs errata.
Back to the OP:
From the 38 Studios site...
"We are thrilled to reveal our first title, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, previously referred to as Project Mercury! Scheduled for release in fall of 2011, Reckoning is an epic, open-world, single-player RPG set in Amalur, a mysterious and magical new fantasy setting.
"The world of Amalur was created by New York Times-bestselling author R.A. Salvatore and brought to life visually by renowned artist and Spawn creator Todd McFarlane. Reckoning was developed under the leadership of Ken Rolston, lead designer of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion."
38studios.com/news/kingdoms-amalur-recko...
It's also generally a racialy prejudice game (kobolds, goblins, ect)
LOL! Wer all assimilating. You realize the very letters of the alphabet that you type come from Africa? From Canaanite copper miners who assimilated into Egyptian culture and adapted their heiroglyphs, and Greeks who assimilated into Canaanite, and Italians who assimilated into Greek, and Brits who assimilated into Italy via the Roman empire.
'Chinese make a lot of things but strangely, none of my 100+ D&D books have chinese authors.'
Regarding East Asia, maybe you dont play video games or watch anime?
Mello: 'D&D is inherently a racialy diverse game (elf, dwarf, human, ect).'
The greatest comment D&D ever made is: we are only one 'race' the *human race*.
Back to the OP:
From the 38 Studios site...
"We are thrilled to reveal our first title, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, previously referred to as Project Mercury! Scheduled for release in fall of 2011, Reckoning is an epic, open-world, single-player RPG set in Amalur, a mysterious and magical new fantasy setting."The world of Amalur was created by New York Times-bestselling author R.A. Salvatore and brought to life visually by renowned artist and Spawn creator Todd McFarlane. Reckoning was developed under the leadership of Ken Rolston, lead designer of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion."
38studios.com/news/kingdoms-amalur-recko...
I wonder how close it will be to Dragon Age?
Sounds like a great game that will be a Fantasy type game without the D & D License. With Todd McFarline the various individuals will have to look better than the people in Obivion.
tangential
D&D may once have been 'for white guys', due to an assumed default rather then a concious exclusionary principle. Without deliberate thought, though, it's easy for personal biases to sneak into thinks without one ever being aware. That said, WotC is and has been going out of their way to make D&D a game 'for people who want to have fun' regardless of race or gender, and good for them.
Really? Could have fooled me. As far as I've known, duargar have 'grey' skin, and are usually depicted as noticeably darker then 'normal' dwarves - being yet another dark skinned evil version of a light skinned good race. Perhaps you meant Derro? The other evil dwarves, who are light skinned? Well, I'm sorry, but going from white skinned good guys to differently white skinned bad guys doesn't have the same connotations as going from white skinned good guys to black skinned bad guys, or even vice versa, for that matter. Especially when one is white skinned because of lack of sunlight a la cave fish, while the other is dark skinned because dark skin is in and of itself a punishment for wickedness. And frankly, Derro are bloody obscure, being the second and less popular evil counterpart to the already less popular dwarves, they hardly rate a mention, and I'm not even sure they made it into 4e (and nobody would care if they didn't).
Frankly, I find the 'cursed with a skin color' to be a pretty stupid, ham fisted, and insulting concept, regardless of what color you're using. Find a different reason for it, one that plays up the other, cooler aspect of the race.
I'm not advocating 'light skinned dark elves' (although Warhammer pulls it off plenty well). There are cool, jungian aspects to the Drow's appearance, and their increasing presence as a PC race undercuts the problem of 'black skin = kill on sight' that previous editions suffered from.
Calling people abnormal because of their skin color is just uncool, and needlessly exclusive in a gaming environment. Self fulfilling prophesies and all that. And hell, if the rantings of fox news are right, whites might not even be the majority in America by the end of your lifetime.
D&D is a small hobby. Adding people, growing the player base, its a goal. No need to push people away unnecessarily by catering to the hang ups of the pre-existing player base.
It was a black player in one of my games who brought my attention to these issues in the first place. If you think this is just a bunch of white libs getting a bug up their craw for no reason, you're wrong. And if you think there aren't some seriously ugly undertones in D&D's history, and in the D&D player base in general, you're also wrong. I've seen first hand jerks deliberately using their roleplay time to act out race supremecist fantasies, I've seen non-whites and non-males ignored, talked down to, or treated rudely by gaming store employees and customers. There are problems with race in D&D's house. Ignoring the problems is, in this case, the same as embracing them. WotC in general, and 4e in particular, has been more then happy to throw out 'sacred cows' in an effort to make D&D a more open and enjoyable gaming experience for everyone. Ongoing tweaks to Drow culture - painstakingly separating out the cool from the suck - can and should be part of that.
D&D, and role playing games in general, shouldn't and don't have to be a "white man's game", not any more then any other kind of game - be it video games or board games or card games. Games should be for people who want ot have fun. End of story.
Malisteen, D&D isn't for white people only, but it was made for whites by whites (FWBW).
D&D may once have been 'for white guys', due to an assumed default rather then a concious exclusionary principle. Without deliberate thought, though, it's easy for personal biases to sneak into thinks without one ever being aware. That said, WotC is and has been going out of their way to make D&D a game 'for people who want to have fun' regardless of race or gender, and good for them.
The duergar are evil and have really white skin.
Really? Could have fooled me. As far as I've known, duargar have 'grey' skin, and are usually depicted as noticeably darker then 'normal' dwarves - being yet another dark skinned evil version of a light skinned good race. Perhaps you meant Derro? The other evil dwarves, who are light skinned? Well, I'm sorry, but going from white skinned good guys to differently white skinned bad guys doesn't have the same connotations as going from white skinned good guys to black skinned bad guys, or even vice versa, for that matter. Especially when one is white skinned because of lack of sunlight a la cave fish, while the other is dark skinned because dark skin is in and of itself a punishment for wickedness. And frankly, Derro are bloody obscure, being the second and less popular evil counterpart to the already less popular dwarves, they hardly rate a mention, and I'm not even sure they made it into 4e (and nobody would care if they didn't).
That's so "problematic", how can they do that? Oh wait, getting offended at duergar skin doesn't ease white racial guilt. Duergar, you're ok! Drow, you're blocking progress! Would you get offended if the duergar were cursed by the gods with pale white skin? Of course not.
Frankly, I find the 'cursed with a skin color' to be a pretty stupid, ham fisted, and insulting concept, regardless of what color you're using. Find a different reason for it, one that plays up the other, cooler aspect of the race.
I'm not advocating 'light skinned dark elves' (although Warhammer pulls it off plenty well). There are cool, jungian aspects to the Drow's appearance, and their increasing presence as a PC race undercuts the problem of 'black skin = kill on sight' that previous editions suffered from.
75% of america is white. That makes them the majority and the norm. Normal. I'm sure the percentage of white D&D players is much higher than that. My guess would be 95%+. Hard to search about D&D and "race" though, haha.
Calling people abnormal because of their skin color is just uncool, and needlessly exclusive in a gaming environment. Self fulfilling prophesies and all that. And hell, if the rantings of fox news are right, whites might not even be the majority in America by the end of your lifetime.
D&D is a small hobby. Adding people, growing the player base, its a goal. No need to push people away unnecessarily by catering to the hang ups of the pre-existing player base.
Migo, in western society, black represents evil and death. Black hearted, black death, blacklist, black sheep, blackmail. That is american culture. Black americans use these words too and use black as the color to represent evil, because they are american and speak english. But whites feeling guilty will definitely be offended for them. Maybe you can choose a new color for western society to identify as evil? First make sure nobody has that color skin so you don't have to put out the effort to get offended for them about it!
It was a black player in one of my games who brought my attention to these issues in the first place. If you think this is just a bunch of white libs getting a bug up their craw for no reason, you're wrong. And if you think there aren't some seriously ugly undertones in D&D's history, and in the D&D player base in general, you're also wrong. I've seen first hand jerks deliberately using their roleplay time to act out race supremecist fantasies, I've seen non-whites and non-males ignored, talked down to, or treated rudely by gaming store employees and customers. There are problems with race in D&D's house. Ignoring the problems is, in this case, the same as embracing them. WotC in general, and 4e in particular, has been more then happy to throw out 'sacred cows' in an effort to make D&D a more open and enjoyable gaming experience for everyone. Ongoing tweaks to Drow culture - painstakingly separating out the cool from the suck - can and should be part of that.
D&D, and role playing games in general, shouldn't and don't have to be a "white man's game", not any more then any other kind of game - be it video games or board games or card games. Games should be for people who want ot have fun. End of story.
Can we please stop with the racial debate? Like the zombie movie genre, it's been done to death. Most of the people who make a big hubbub about race really don't want to have peace between the "races" (blacks, whites, latinos, etc).
Let's not forget that racism runs rampant in all racial groups, no matter if it's the Ku Klux Klan, La Raza, or the Black Panthers. Let's not bring such groups or mindsets into the game, unless they are villains to be fought. We should be above such idiotic notions.
Peace.
that said...
D&D and the D&D community has real issues with race, which deserve to be confronted and dealt with*. Accusing the people willing to confront issues of race of being the 'real racists' in an effort to shut down dialog is a cliche and obvious tactic generally used so the people in the majority in a given context can go back to pretending that other people don't exist.
*We have a whole board for discussing D&D's gender issues, but the race issues are just as deep if not deeper. Shame we don't have a board for those discussions, so they have a place where they can be on topic, but where those who don't want to engage in that conversation don't have to. Maybe when 5e comes out....
*We have a whole board for discussing D&D's gender issues, but the race issues are just as deep if not deeper. Shame we don't have a board for those discussions, so they have a place where they can be on topic, but where those who don't want to engage in that conversation don't have to. Maybe when 5e comes out....
Tomb of horrors could be interesting, but I think people would just scream it was a tomb raider rip off. Kids these days. Plus, the entire appeal of the ToHis gruesome and clever PC death. I don't want a D&D movie to reflect that abomination "SAW".
It depends on the story. I think Tomb of Horrors could be a great movie... if you have the right characters.
I would make the theme of the movie "choosing to live in the face of doom", a classic D&D theme, and also one that can resonate with the audience at large.
So here's how it works... (I'm using 3e's iconics just for purposes of names.)
The main character is Regdar, a warrior. He is approached by Lidda (halfling rogue), Vadania (half-elf druid). Krusk (half-orc barbarian), and Gimble (gnome bard). Each of them has a bone to pick (so to speak) with the legendary demilich Acererak. Some (Krusk) seeks revenge. Some (Vadania) seek to stop an abomination. Some (Lidda) seek treasure. Some (Gimble) seek glory.
Regdar seeks none of these things. Turns out Regdar's father was a companion of Acererak before Acererak turned to necromancy. His father died when he was a baby, and he never discovered what happened to his father. Regdar, however, owns a magical ledger of his father, which is a diary of he and Acererak's adventures together, but the last entry is from well before his father's death.
The adventurers want access to the diary as they hope it will give them clues to the pitfalls of Acererak's tomb. Regdar goes along to find out what happened to his father, but he s reticent, a shut-in. The pain of losing his father (and recently, his mother) has cause dhim to retreat from life.
Along the way, there are more encounters with Acererak's cultists, as well as monsters in the wild. The purposes of these encounters is to draw Regdar out of his shell, and to begin to care about other people... particularly Vadania, whoc becomes the love interest.
So they enter the tomb. And, yes, people start to die. (You might need a lot more than just these five iconics... Mialee, Ember, Jozan, and Soveliss can all bite the dust early on.) Turns out the tomb isn't just of Acererak... it's a memorial to Acererak's former adventuring allies, all of whom perished durig Acererak's illustrious adventuring career. Each of the famous deadly traps are also reenactments of the deaths of Acererak's erstwhile friends. And it becomes clear that with each death of a frien, Acererak was driven farther and farther towards the dark arts. As Regdar begins to lose friends, he begins to feel pity for, and an understanding of, Acererak.
In the final room, it is just Regdar, Vadania, and maybe Gimble left. This tomb is the one for Regdar's father. The tomb is terribly deadly and in it we learn that Regdar's dad sacrificed himself for Acererak and other innocents. Now friendless, Acererak chose to unlive and seal himself off from the world with his grief. When Vadania dies, Acererak shows up, offering to seal Vadania as a ghost and Regdar as a death knight to be his companions in the tomb for eternity.
Then Regdar sees that his father's journal had been filled with his father's last words.: "Always choose to live." Regdar finally understands that Acererak is wrong. Sealing oneself up is no better than being dead. He destroys the demilich and escapes the Tomb as it collapses around him. Vadania is dead (as are his other companions.) it is a bittersweet victory, but the world is now safe from Acererak's evil. Regdar (and any other companions who survived) head back to civilization... choosing to live
The nice thing is that the movie can be simply called "Tomb of Horrors". It's a great title and doesn't need a dragon in it. I think it's a powerful message and could be a great movie. It doesn't feel like Raiders at all. It aloso leaves open sequel potential as Regdar and his companions go on to other iconic modules like White Plume Mountain, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, and the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth!
LOL! Great movie, except Redgar should get killed first.
Wrecan, that plotline is at least as good as the recent clash of the titans movie. That works as a script outline, not bad at all. It's like lord of the rings mixed with saw mixed with descent. It doesn't need a 150 million dollar budget or have some grand but cliched save the world plotline either. 20 or 30 million would probably be fine. I'm sure the studios have sets already built that would work fine for the most part. You are right that Tomb of Horrors is a great title. If it was called Dungeons & Dragons, it would limit the audience because people think D&D is for nerds. It doesn't have positive brand recognition. Tomb of Horrors as a title lets average people go see it without preconceived notions and stereotypes about D&D. It also doesn't alienate the fans, because they are a bunch of nerds and will already know it's a D&D movie and see it. And as you said, it opens the door for adaptations of other famous modules. Of course, there's also the possibility of......Return to the Tomb of Horrors.
I hope there is some guy at WOTC whose job it is to think about all this and get a movie project in the works.
I imagine there are some kind of moderator nazis who will bust through the wall like the koolaid man and lock the thread when they have been made sufficiently uncomfortable about their taboo of race.
A reasonable fear. I recall similar things happening to similar discussions of race (and of the drow in particular), was back in the day when 4e was just coming out. I would just like to leave with the note that I don't think D&D is racist, or at least not deliberately so, but I do still think there are a lot of issues with race in the game and the community that are worthy of discussion and debate, and would like to see an 'astrids parlour' type subforum for such debates in the future.
May I? Oh well, I'll go ahead without permission.
Show
A More Fantastic World
When the world team started discussions about the D&D world, we began by talking about some basic goals for design. We identified our shared expectations about what the game should be like, calling these "key conceits."
The first key conceit was this: The world should be more fantastic and less representative of real-world history and nature. We want D&D cultures to blend real-world civilizations and fatnastic elements, not merely rehash medieval France and Renassance England. We proposed D&D environments containing highly fantastic elements alongside more mundane features. These could include an island of rock perched atop a constant waterspout of titanic size, a river of lava that never cools or stops flowing, a grassy plane dotted with monolithic pillars that seemingly dropped from the skies, or a city of floating towers borne up by ancient magic.
The D&D game has always been influenced by European history and culture. If you look back at the game's roots, it's easy to see why. Gary Gygax's Chainmail game, D&D's precursor, added fantastic elements to a medieval battle game he had already developed.
The various editions of D&D continued this trend of drawing source material from the real world. Supplements and magazine articles delved into minutiae – everything from the myriad blades used on polearms by various culture to how monstrous inhabitants of dungeons get clean air and remove waste. Although interesting from a historical and scientific standpoint, such details have very little effect on how the game is played. They add verisimilitude but rarely increase the fun of playing.
The 3rd Edition of the game took the first step away from reliance on the real world by designing new and unique appearances for armor and weapons, but the urge to make fantasy reflect reality remained. The setting was still a historic, medieval world onto which fantasy elements were grafted. The two concepts don't blend well. A largely human society, surrounded by an environment filled with magic and monsters, places fantasy on the outside. It's foreign.
After over thirty years of this approach to the game design, the real-world well is getting pretty dry. Also, focusing on the realistic without accounting for the fantasit creates a tension between the two…
So we thought about how much more wondrous and unique the D&D world would be if we shook free of the constraints of simulating reality and history. If we blur the distinctions between real-world cultures, historical periods, and fantastic societies, we can offer players a brighter and more colorful palette with which to create their worlds and characters…
A More Fantastic World
–Matthew Sernett
When the world team started discussions about the D&D world, we began by talking about some basic goals for design. We identified our shared expectations about what the game should be like, calling these "key conceits."
The first key conceit was this: The world should be more fantastic and less representative of real-world history and nature. We want D&D cultures to blend real-world civilizations and fatnastic elements, not merely rehash medieval France and Renassance England. We proposed D&D environments containing highly fantastic elements alongside more mundane features. These could include an island of rock perched atop a constant waterspout of titanic size, a river of lava that never cools or stops flowing, a grassy plane dotted with monolithic pillars that seemingly dropped from the skies, or a city of floating towers borne up by ancient magic.
The Burden of History
The D&D game has always been influenced by European history and culture. If you look back at the game's roots, it's easy to see why. Gary Gygax's Chainmail game, D&D's precursor, added fantastic elements to a medieval battle game he had already developed.
The various editions of D&D continued this trend of drawing source material from the real world. Supplements and magazine articles delved into minutiae – everything from the myriad blades used on polearms by various culture to how monstrous inhabitants of dungeons get clean air and remove waste. Although interesting from a historical and scientific standpoint, such details have very little effect on how the game is played. They add verisimilitude but rarely increase the fun of playing.
The 3rd Edition of the game took the first step away from reliance on the real world by designing new and unique appearances for armor and weapons, but the urge to make fantasy reflect reality remained. The setting was still a historic, medieval world onto which fantasy elements were grafted. The two concepts don't blend well. A largely human society, surrounded by an environment filled with magic and monsters, places fantasy on the outside. It's foreign.
Getting Strange
After over thirty years of this approach to the game design, the real-world well is getting pretty dry. Also, focusing on the realistic without accounting for the fantasit creates a tension between the two…
So we thought about how much more wondrous and unique the D&D world would be if we shook free of the constraints of simulating reality and history. If we blur the distinctions between real-world cultures, historical periods, and fantastic societies, we can offer players a brighter and more colorful palette with which to create their worlds and characters…
What about a "war of the twins" movie I, Know everyone loves FR for its lore etc, but the truly Epic story about the twins would be fantastic. though condensing the 3 books to one movie would be a little harsh. And then there's Raist's back story and why some people like the guy.
It has it all . Time travel. Magic. betrayal. not redemption of Raist, but a choice not to be alone in his darkness, a war, Caramons training and there journey to the various gates.
and the "drak elves" in Dragonlance dont have black skin,making Dalamar easy to cast.
Live action or Cartoon for a cheeper option.
The core and most important elements of any film are story and character. A good story and good characters generally makes a good film. A bad story and bad characters, the opposite. If you want to look at excellent examples of good story telling and character, look at almost any Disney or Pixar films. SFX and explosions come last for these guys, story and character are always first and this of course begins with a good script. There are dynamics and nuances to rendering all this on screen which is realized by those above the line (director, actors, DP) first. Then these folks are aided by a crew of talented people below the line.
I'm gonna cut the movie part real short as I have to leave soon and there's another point I wanna make. But, I certainly want to address the movie thing in more detail. For the record, I would do either Forgotten Realms or Dark Sun based films because of name recognition and the rich history of both. Now an FR story COULD be done using drow and leaving out Drizzt. Drow could also be used in an unconventional manner which goes a different route than what we all know as drow. Any number of stories that don't include the famous NPCs of the Realms could also be done as well.
Dark Sun, haven't quite pinned that one down yet.
But, as far as the whole drow/race debate thing, let me chime in. I'm a black DnD player, among other things. And, actually I have always taken to the drow because they were one of the only ones in the game that even remotely resembled me.
My brother, who is a video game programmer, I won't say which company
, was having a discussion with a Wizards' designer. Or, somebody from Wizards, not real sure the guy's position. But, he asked my brother what it would take to bring in more gamers of color. My brother got me on the phone, as this is a conversation we've had a few times (lack of color in fantasy). I told my brother to tell the guy what I've always said.There are very few images of characters which resemble people of color. People have a tendency to gravitate toward things which they can relate to and/or look like them. Comic book shops and the like rarely exist in inner-city neighborhoods where a good portion of people of color reside. This cuts down on their exposure to DnD drastically. I was only exposed to it after my dad moved to the suburbs and I would visit on weekends. In addition to that, not seeing any faces of color doesn't cause people of color to stop and want to take a look.
But, let's say I happened to be at a comic shop or a store that carried some fantasy products. If I saw a big, buff, magic sword wielding brother, or an exotic Latina woman on the cover of a mag or gaming product battling a dragon, I'm more inclined to take a look. The white guy on the other hand may only warrant a cursory glance. I've seen the white hero my entire life, it's nothing new. The Black, or Latino, or Asian hero is more rare and piques my interest.
DnD is not racist at all. But, the creator(s) and those who have developed the game after them, created a game in their own image. They didn't intentionally exclude others, they simply went with what they've known their entire lives. Was it originally based on medieval Europe? Yeah. But, the thing is, it's fantasy and can take place anywhere and include anyone or anything you wish.
But, from a creative standpoint, people tend to create that with which they're familiar with and/or identify. So, let me reference the movie industry as an example. Whites are a majority in the U.S and control the majority of money as well. Saying that, there will always be movies featuring more white heroes and characters than anything else. Compare the number of movies you see with white leads versus leads of other races. It's disproportionately high.
Could E.T. have landed in some black people's back yard? Sure. They probably would've shot him, thereby nixing about 3/4th of the movie. I'm kiddin'. Could Luke Skywalker have been played by a Latino actor? Could Indiana Jones have been Detroit Jones?
You will find this same disparity in fantasy gaming products as well. Could the Seven Sisters have been of varying ethnicities? And, yes I know Qilue was a drow. Could any of the characters in FR, DL, DS, or any other fantasy novels/products have been anything other than white?
The answer to all these questions are unequivocally, yes. But, the creators of the material and characters were all white, so it stands to reason that they never really thought outside of that particular box. And, I'm not saying that this is an intentionally bad thing.
So, racism? No. Racist over or undertones? Nope. Just people sticking to what's familiar. But, now it is time to break that mold and realize that there is a group of people out there that would give these games and products more than just a cursory glance if these products featured characters that looked like them.
Next... I actually talk about the thread topic a bit more.
The movie ended up being about a spat between wizards, the characters having to get in the middle to even be mentioned. It was a very contrived concept that made the whole movie suffer.
When I saw that, I was like, wait: woah!
Because Humans had come in different ethnicities in the past. You got Asianesque humans and Africanesque humans and the obvious WASPy/Nordic/Celtic humans and everything in-between and surrounding. Because humans have always been a stand-in for everything that makes humanity in real life.
But 4E Humans are different. They decided humans had to occupy an individual space representing a facet of RL humanity just like the other races. And in turn, it seems, other races are allowed humanities' diversity.
I don't mean like how there were Snow Elves and Jungle Elves and Gold Dwarves and Grey Dwarves and Mountain Dwarves and Deep Gnomes and 3 Halfling subraces that were basically just Harfoots, Fallowhides, and Stoors. I mean that this is beyond game race but rather reflects where you come from in the world.
Elves could be anywhere from bronze-skinned to fair white skinned, and have dark green hair or autumn auburn or brown like wood or golden like the leaves just as the summer shifts. These are traits mentioned in the Player's Handbook. I'd really like to see more Elven art with sideburns, bronze skin as if they came from Egypt or somewhere else in northern Africa, and darker green or brown hair. It would be a change of pace from all these anglo-Elves that are pretending to be Eladrin.
Things are getting better.
I myself play the Elf as an outdoor civilization - pretty much like the LotR movies with their blend of Euro Art-Nouveau and Asian Daoist stylization - because I see the Elf Wisdom as 'Intuitive Feeling' NF, which represents a sophisticated mindfulness: extraordinarily empathic and intuitive, idealistic, able to track extremely complex data, and producing authors, journalists, notably intricate mathematicians, and so on. (Id guess Ophra Winfrey is ENFJ and the mathematician Turing INFJ. Champion archetypes like the Virgin Mary or Sir Galahad would be INFP.)
Anyway for a change of pace, I would rather see a notably urban civilized race exhibit Africanesque flavor. Of course, Drow are this but their monolithic evil makes them problematic.
Personally I would be totally cool, for example, with the Deva reflavoring with metalic skin tones ranging from bright bronze to a dark iron. This works with the current statuesque flavor. The Deva already have a Hindu vibe, thus the dark skin of India can be appropriate. A blend of Hindu and Africa (possibly Ethiopian) could be interesting for a fantasy race.
Avestan-Vedic deity vibe.
Agreed about the civilsed african thing. However, there -are- a lot of African cultures that screem Primal, at least in part.
What about a Mali Empire sort of vibe?
I’ve removed content from this thread because politics/hate speech/disruptive social topics is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg...
It is sad that Bioware can't be involved (EA monkeys now) but there are much better people/developers out there than Obsidian.
Obsidian can't really program or code very well, hence my specific recommendation for story and dialogue, but you're going to come up with a short to non-existent list if you try to think of current developers who do those latter things better.
Come to think of it, until Mass Effect 2, nothing made solely by Bioware has really impressed me. (Baldur's Gate I and II had Black Isle writers on board.)
Honestly though, I don't care who makes this game(s) I just want quality and I want a lot of them!
Because I can't take ANYONE seriously who considers NWN1 to have story or characters worth mentioning in any sort of positive light. Were we even playing the same game? That game was rescued entirely by the toolset and the modules that resulted, because the original campaign was seriously one of the worst RPGs I have ever played. And I am not exaggerating.
As for the NWN1 expansions, they were also mind-numbingly generic, but at least they were short and didn't have delusions of being anything else other than dungeon-crawlers.
NWN2 is better than NWN1 simply because in the sequel, Lord Nasher wasn't a complete p****. But, of course, there's more.
Now, I'll start with mentioning that the problem with NWN2's OC was that Act 1 dragged on with a few parts that could've been cut out entirely. It was annoying, but once you get past that it flows pretty well. And seriously, the characters? No comparison. Even the stereotypes among them had real personalities, and Khelgar and the warlock, in particular, had very compelling development arcs. The warlock was even a nice allegory for the main villain and his backstory. (Who even remembers the main villain for NWN1? Exactly.) Plus the actual chances to roleplay in NWN2, again, no comparison. Even if most of them didn't affect the world at large, it still counts for something.
Then there's Mask of the Betrayer, where your role-playing choices DO matter a great deal and is simply on a whole different level than anything mentioned above, and most RPGs ever released for that matter.
Okay, someone is going to have to explain to me how T&A Elven Female Anakin Skywalker is a more compelling character than, well, any other character in any other RPG. Or the tepid henchmen? Or how a plot that consists of little more than 4 chapters of "find these four things and report back" (yes, repeated in each chapter) is even remotely interesting. And extended over 60 hours!
Because I can't take ANYONE seriously who considers NWN1 to have story or characters worth mentioning in any sort of positive light. Were we even playing the same game? That game was rescued entirely by the toolset and the modules that resulted, because the original campaign was seriously one of the worst RPGs I have ever played. And I am not exaggerating.
As for the NWN1 expansions, they were also mind-numbingly generic, but at least they were short and didn't have delusions of being anything else other than dungeon-crawlers.
NWN2 is better than NWN1 simply because in the sequel, Lord Nasher wasn't a complete p****. But, of course, there's more.
Now, I'll start with mentioning that the problem with NWN2's OC was that Act 1 dragged on with a few parts that could've been cut out entirely. It was annoying, but once you get past that it flows pretty well. And seriously, the characters? No comparison. Even the stereotypes among them had real personalities, and Khelgar and the warlock, in particular, had very compelling development arcs. The warlock was even a nice allegory for the main villain and his backstory. (Who even remembers the main villain for NWN1? Exactly.) Plus the actual chances to roleplay in NWN2, again, no comparison. Even if most of them didn't affect the world at large, it still counts for something.
Then there's Mask of the Betrayer, where your role-playing choices DO matter a great deal and is simply on a whole different level than anything mentioned above, and most RPGs ever released for that matter.
I can't take ANYONE seriously who dismisses anyone else for something that is nothing more than opinion.
I Hated the starting point and the lousy fair in the beginning, and the useless death of the mage apprentice that you could not prevent. The game sends you out alone and if you don't have the crazy dwarf go with you after a point, it is damn near impossible untill you gain other npc's in Neverwinter. The Tiefling is annoying and a posterchild of why not to have evil alignments in the party. (even if the character sheet may say she isn't evil, I ditch her in the city everytime and don't bother to look.)
Sorry, but from there I struggle to find my way and have given up on more than one occasion.
See why I think the first one was better?
Do they get better later? Is it worth going through the Dwarf's side quest at all?
And to answer your question, yes, they get better, and yes, it is worth it (story-wise, not actually changing him to that other class, seeing as how that other class did suck in 3.5).
"Hey, I know a way to make it so no one really plays the Monk."
"How?"
"limit them to LG!!"
"No... we couldn't be that cruel, could we?"
"Let's also give them a bunch of useless class powers that have nothing to do with combat or gameplay, and make them become outsiders at level 20."
"Your not really listening to me, are you?"
"Oh!... oh. And make it so if they multiclass, they can't level in Monk after that!!"
"I quit, you do what you want...."
Yeah, but I still like the Flurry and Unarmed Damage, so it wasn't a Bard.
And yet NWN2 turned out to be a much better game than NWN1.
I guess I just liked the toolset better in nwn1...plus I met my wife playing nwn1 so i suppose I'm biased.
Penny Arcade should do animated versions of their adventures and lift the dialogue straight from the pod casts.
I think a Blamimation style animation (though maybe of better animation quality), showing the players (or their cartoon counterparts) and then the action and going back and forth would work better.
For instance from Podcast three Kurtz saying "I charge the boar" and then Wil "Wait, what? Ctr-Z!" could be shown by having Binwin jump at the boar and stop in mid-air to be pulled back (maybe with a theatre hook).
I actually thought the Storm of Zehir expansion for NWN2 was pretty good because of the atmosphere and setting (while trying as hard as I could to ignore the RTS elements). Mask of the Betrayer had a good storyline and setting also. I just didn't like the spirit meter you had to keep stocked up. Still wondering about Mysteries of Westgate. Anyway here is the link to the blog post about neverwinter nights 3 rumors I found:
www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/10264...
Fisheyes
www.playneverwinter.com/
World Without End
Neverwinter features co-operative multiplayer in an ever-evolving, persistent world where Dungeons & Dragons adventurers quest alongside thousands of other warriors, rogues, wizards and faithful avengers.
I wanted a turn based single player game.
It's a 5 player co-op multi-player game or you can mix players and AI controlled characters.
It also appears to come with some sort of content creation tools (toolset).
Guess we'll see how this all shakes out over the next little while.
, too.Probably a similar number of races (elf, dwarf, human, halfling), but since Cryptic is involved we'll see rampant customization that is entirely cosmetic.
On the plus side, this will make a great character visualizer.
Sorry but it is an MMORPG.
Nope. 5-players in a world ain't Massive at all, so it's not MMORPG. They call it OMG (Online Multiplayer Game). Like it so far. Exactly what I wanted.
And no outdated turn-based stuff. If I want tac-sim I'll tell. I prefer my RPGs to be realtime. And hopefully it's gonna be 3d person (like WoW, Oblivion, Fallout 3 or Mass Effect).
Looks like Avenger, Wizard, Fighter, Rogue, Ranger. No clue on races.
It's Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue & Ranger. As for the races - they named Humans, Elves and Dwarves and "... a few special ones." We can clearly see tiefling on the site. Others are mystery.
Same here. Sounds exactly like what I wanted.
'And no outdated turn-based stuff. If I want tac-sim I'll tell. I prefer my RPGs to be realtime.'
Likewise. I was pleasantly surprised when DDO was realtime instead of turnbased. Makes a more vivid game.
'And hopefully it's gonna be 3d person (like WoW, Oblivion, Fallout 3 or Mass Effect).'
I hope you can toggle between first person and third person viewpoints. And also customize the thirdperson for several viewpoints: birdseye-view directly above, ¾-view above but allowing a sense of what they look like (and what theyr doing) from eye-level, and so on.
The third person is much better for strategic play, but first person is more immersive for roleplay. To toggle between them whenever I choose would be awesome.
World Without End
Neverwinter features co-operative multiplayer in an ever-evolving, persistent world where Dungeons & Dragons adventurers quest alongside thousands of other warriors, rogues, wizards and faithful avengers.
....
I don't want a world without end, I just want a single player offline crpg. Turn based is garbage but it's better than multiplayer. I don't want internet people disturbing my playing experience 
I don't want internet people disturbing my playing experience
They won't. It's been said you can adventure alone with NPCs filling up your party. Or get some trusted friends in it, not some xXXLOLpaladinLOLXXx guy
When Atari does the Neverwinter game right they will redeem Cryptic label in the eyes of many.
Apparently, Atari now owns Cryptic and switched out the personnel for inhouse Atari personnel. John Snow related this.
www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinter/news...
Some quotes:
In our game, action points are earned through combat and spent to power special abilities called "boons." These boons give players special boosts, but only in certain circumstances. Healing surges represent the amount of times a player can heal himself before resting. In D&D and Neverwinter, various abilities let players use a surge immediately or perhaps replenish the number of surges available.
[...]
Of course, we're using power names and trying to keep power behavior consistent with the pen-and-paper counterparts.
To me, this sounds extremely disappointing. This description gives the impression that the game will not be using most of the 4e ruleset; just the same setting and a lot of the same basic rules concepts. This also means that this game will not be useful as a tool for running DnD campaigns online. I'm sure that some people will enjoy it, but it doesn't sound like I will end up buying this game.
As an aside, what's up with all of the vehement turn-based hate? DnD is a turn-based game, and presumably, most of the people here enjoy playing it. If you want to have a reasonably close rendition of the actual game (not to mention include any significant portion of the interesting tactical aspects of 4e), I would think that it would need to be at least pseudo-turn based.
Quaestor the Wanderer
DAMN YOU ATARI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, just needed to get that out. Why? Seriously why? You have a legacy, given to you by Bioware. Bioware are good. Bioware make single player games. Their games sell. They are good. WHY IN THE NINE HELLS DON'T YOU FOLLOW THEIR LEGACY, IN EXCHANGE FOR AN MMO?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!!??
What notion gave you the thought that the fans of the previous games, all single player, NWN and Baldur's Gate, would in ANY way prefer an MMO version of the game we love. Not only that, but a simplified version. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT, ACORDING TO YOUR OWN PEOPLE, NOT STORY DRIVEN, /THE/ MOST IMPORTANT PART OF A D&D GAME, BUT DRIVEN BY QUESTS FOR MORE TREASURE, ***WHICH IS NOT WHAT D&D IS ABOUT***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, obviously I didn't get it all out. However, despite my over use of exclamation and question marks, the point is still there.
F*** you, Atari. Sorry, there is nothing else I can say to you.
To any nice, fellow minded forum goers (or even alternatively minded), sorry for profanity. Anyone want to give an explanation for this madness, for this desecration of a wonderful legacy, for this act of pure evil, which does not even use the new materials given by 4e, except for the "jumping on the MMO bandwagon" excuse?
Which isn't an excuse. Because it sucks.
Note to wizards: as soon as you get the liscence to the D&D videogames, give it to someone like Bioware. Someone who knows D&D, and will do it justice. Like Bioware. Hint. HINT.
EDIT: Sorry for incoherent rage. Totally necessary, and no one else had done it yet. Needed.
EDIT 2: BTW, I know that Bioware was with Atari, or at least willing to work with them at the time the liscence was given. Not blaming wizards for this, except for not arguing against it (and sorry if they did, hope it had an effect).
Story FTW.
I want it to be sophisticated enough and use 4e rules accurately enough to stand in for a table game. I believe adapting 4e to a realtime environment is desirable. I love the fact my group brings our laptops to the table of our inhouse game, to use the DDI Character Builder for our character sheets and the Online Compendium to doublecheck any rules if necessary. I could totally see us sitting around the table with each laptop playing a character in an OMG game.
I dont want a turnbased or a single player game.
That said, is it possible to toggle between realtime and turnbased? It seems easier to build a realtime game (which is difficult to make feel smooth) and then give the option to divide up the actions one creature at a time. Is that too difficult too program, or is it more-or-less straightforward to do?
Can the DM choose whether to let the AI control the monster actions, whether to personally control one of these monsters while the AI handles the rest, or control each monster individually if its possible to toggle between realtime and turnbased? If the AI is good enough then single player is a done deal.
If it is possible to toggle between realtime and turnbased, then probably every D&D player in the world will buy it.
Especially if it can interact seemlessly with D&DI. The D&DI subscription could be necessary to get the expansions.
Its ok to start small. A realtime multiplayer game will probably appeal to the wider public and is potentially more lucrative. Even so, a turnbased game will appeal to many D&D grognards who are a reliable customer base. To toggle would get the best of both business models.
ATARI, I POO POO ON YOUR SOUL
Fisheyes
Again, sorry for any strong language.
Any word on if (Hah!!) there is gonna be a monthly charge? If there isn't, I might try it, but if there is, I will wait for Guild Wars 2.
If there is a monthly charge then it will suffer overall, while, if they implement the pay when you buy it approach, they might trick a few of us sane ones into buying it. I personally suspect that it is going to be like D&DO in its payment plan. Also, its not quite an MMO. An MMO has raids and quests and exploration. This has....... just raids. Oh. A STRIPPED DOWN MMO?!?!!? Not even worth making a full MMO?! Its standing half way through two genres and eating the worst of both. This is total Bulls**t. What's worse is that I bet they didn't even do a customer survey, through the D&D website or otherwise, to even see what type of game would sell best. Someone just decided that, oh, D&D itself needs to be an OMG, not that its hundreds of decendants are enough to justify a crappy genre, they also need to drag the original in as well.
I need wax models, a bonfire, little dolls, needles, onion dolls, and a golden calf for this. Stat.
Golden calf to be put under the dev team to attract divine lightning (and a pair of renegade angels). Also, writing on their roof that all Gods are idiots. Any other suggestions of sympathetic magic?
Hmmm. The thing about Elf is they can easily fall into the 'noble savage' stereotype.
I myself play the Elf as an outdoor civilization - pretty much like the LotR movies with their blend of Euro Art-Nouveau and Asian Daoist stylization - because I see the Elf Wisdom as 'Intuitive Feeling' NF, which represents a sophisticated mindfulness: extraordinarily empathic and intuitive, idealistic, able to track extremely complex data, and producing authors, journalists, notably intricate mathematicians, and so on. (Id guess Ophra Winfrey is ENFJ and the mathematician Turing INFJ. Champion archetypes like the Virgin Mary or Sir Galahad would be INFP.)
Anyway for a change of pace, I would rather see a notably urban civilized race exhibit Africanesque flavor. Of course, Drow are this but their monolithic evil makes them problematic.
Personally I would be totally cool, for example, with the Deva reflavoring with metalic skin tones ranging from bright bronze to a dark iron. This works with the current statuesque flavor. The Deva already have a Hindu vibe, thus the dark skin of India can be appropriate. A blend of Hindu and Africa (possibly Ethiopian) could be interesting for a fantasy race.
Actually, the new Essential Elf solves this problem.
The existence of the Int-Dex Elf whose skin is often 'brown' conveys Africanesque flavor via an *Intelligent* culture.
At first, the new Dex-Int/Wis Elf racial abilities shocked me. But for a number of reasons, I like it more and more.
(just my 2 cents on that)
Sorry for the german Link but I haven't found another source yet.
www.4players.de/4players.php/tvplayer/4P...
D&D Daggerdale was announced by Atari (Developer Bedlam Studios).
Sorry for the german Link but I haven't found another source yet.
www.4players.de/4players.php/tvplayer/4P...
Awesome! Cant wait.
www.gamespot.com/xbox360/strategy/dungeo...
not very
my money, my buisness and I will keep it all the same.
Lots of video game talk here. have we stopped discussing movies?
Because....community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758..." title="community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...">NEW D&D MOVIE COMING OUT!
And the support for it is that this story is backed up on the home page. There's a contest of some sort and the prize is a spot as an NPC in the movie!