Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Damon_Tor Aug 13, 2010 20:43:37	After all, a knight with at-will Eldritch Strike can just pump Con, plus he gets a free slide with every attack.
#2 GhostStepper Aug 13, 2010 21:50:07	Half-elves are fine. Its the one feat that needs nerfed
#3 celticmutt Aug 13, 2010 23:37:47	Neither Half-elves nor their feats need to be nerfed.
#4 mrsake Aug 14, 2010 1:43:24	Hey, remember when Half Elves were considered the worst race in the PHB?  Remember how it's only one feat that's keeps them from going back to that? Yeah... Also this 'Oh Noes!  the fighter might turn himsef into a single stat class and break the game!' crap is getting old...  it's not like a single stat fighter is going to be runing around with a 26 in his main stat at level one or anything really game breaking like that.
#5 Nyronus Aug 14, 2010 3:00:31	After all, a knight with at-will Eldritch Strike can just pump Con, plus he gets a free slide with every attack. ... Because a Knight with equal strength and con and Mark of Storms won't get the same exact net benefits for a similar net cost? Versatile Master has stood the test of time and the height of TEH BROKEN panic. I think it will survive this. The only, and I mean the -only- issue I can see with an Eldritch Striking Knight is the return of the Riposte Combo, only this time with now without the power loss of using an encounter instead of your super at-will. But that means less a nerf to Half-Elves and more a reclarification on Riposte. Also, with the Ardent, Bard, and Battlemind around, there are in fact legitiment reason to play a Half Elf other than at-will cheese. The at-will cheese just makes them really bloody awesome on top of it.
#6 ah_stormbringer Aug 14, 2010 5:18:46	Half elves are far from the worst race in the PHB that honor goes to the human. That is baring any changes made for them in the essentials line.
#7 Crimson_Concerto Aug 14, 2010 11:05:37	If anything, I fully expect that the Half-Elf will be objectively improved by Essentials. It's going to get another racial ability score bonus option, just like everybody else, and I also think that it's very probably that they'll fix Dilettante's little implement issue.
#8 Janx_14 Aug 14, 2010 11:45:38	If anything, I fully expect that the Half-Elf will be objectively improved by Essentials. It's going to get another racial ability score bonus option, just like everybody else, and I also think that it's very probably that they'll fix Dilettante's little implement issue. Well, seeing as how any implement you have proficinecy with will work with any power you possess, this already fixes most of the issue, unless you choose to take an implement power as a weapon class, or vice-versa.
#9 Crimson_Concerto Aug 14, 2010 11:57:13	unless you choose to take an implement power as a weapon class Yes, that's the problem that I'm referring to specifically. I can't think of any good reason that a Half-Elf Rogue shouldn't be able to pick up Eyebite and actually be able to use the thing, for example.
#10 yaldabaoth Aug 14, 2010 12:35:49	I suspect for Half-Elves: CHA; pick CON or DEX Pick one: Elf or Human (ala Muls, and those minor figures like Elrond & Elros) Alternative to Dilettante (Encounter power which boosts someone else's to-hit or damage ala Heroic Effort?) Something that improves or replaces Group Diplomacy. (Scaling? More than one or all skills?)
#11 Crimson_Concerto Aug 14, 2010 12:46:09	Pick one: Elf or Human (ala Muls, and those minor figures like Elrond & Elros) I definitely don't think that this will happen. It has already been stated that all racial changes are going to be additive. Nothing is being taken away from any race. The only way that this will happen will be if Half-Elves get an option to exchange access to one race's racial feats for another feature, which seems like a very unusual and unlikely trade option.
#12 Duskweaver Aug 15, 2010 3:40:12	CHA; pick CON or DE I'm hoping for Con+Wis/Cha myself, but we really have no idea yet. Pick one: Elf or Human There's simply no need for this. Most of the best elf feats require Elven Accuracy anyway. I'm certainly not aware of any broken combinations of elf and human feats. I also think the fact that half-elves, half-orcs and muls all treat their mixed-race-ness differently is a feature, not a bug. Alternative to Dilettante An alternative to Dilettante is quite likely, IMO, for the same reason that humans are getting an alternative to their extra at-will.
#13 Marandahir Aug 15, 2010 11:31:32	CHA; pick CON or DE I'm hoping for Con+Wis/Cha myself, but we really have no idea yet. One Half-Elf article had them use Con, Wis, and Cha.  So I expect it'll be a mix of those.  As Constitution represents a lot of the concepts that humans focus on (without actually having Con), and Elves use Wisdom, not to mention that the most key element of Half-Elfs is their natural charisma and diplomatic ability, I expect Cha/Wis or Cha/Con.  Diplomacy AND Insight, not Diplomacy OR Insight. Pick one: Elf or Human There's simply no need for this. Most of the best elf feats require Elven Accuracy anyway. I'm certainly not aware of any broken combinations of elf and human feats. I also think the fact that half-elves, half-orcs and muls all treat their mixed-race-ness differently is a feature, not a bug. I have expect you get Human and Pick One: Eladrin, Elf, or Drow.  That would open up more options, and makes a bit more sense.  Alternative to Dilettante An alternative to Dilettante is quite likely, IMO, for the same reason that humans are getting an alternative to their extra at-will. Didn't here it was an ALTERNATIVE.  From what I gathered, Humans are getting an encounter power ON TOP of their bonus at-will.
#14 ranadiel Aug 15, 2010 12:11:34	Didn't here it was an ALTERNATIVE.  From what I gathered, Humans are getting an encounter power ON TOP of their bonus at-will. Well you gathered wrong then. :P The encounter power is an alternative so that humans who take classes without at-will power, so martial essentials sub-classes, are able to get something.
#15 Marandahir Aug 15, 2010 12:15:40	Didn't here it was an ALTERNATIVE.  From what I gathered, Humans are getting an encounter power ON TOP of their bonus at-will. Well you gathered wrong then. :P The encounter power is an alternative so that humans who take classes without at-will power, so martial essentials sub-classes, are able to get something. I don't meant to sound like an ass here, but could you tell me where we found that out, Ranadiel?  I'm not asking for a link, just where/when they stated that.  It's new information to me.
#16 ranadiel Aug 15, 2010 12:46:30	I don't meant to sound like an ass here, but could you tell me where we found that out, Ranadiel?  I'm not asking for a link, just where/when they stated that.  It's new information to me. I hope you know I hate you right now for causing me to look for this. Post 37. *grumbles as he exits stage left*
#17 psk20 Aug 16, 2010 15:01:17	I'm wondering what essentials will add for my polearm momentum charge druid. He uses savage rend, which is a melee basic attack, so I'm wondering whether there will be many feats and other options I can easily pick up to buff it.
#18 EasyT Aug 16, 2010 16:44:01	I don't meant to sound like an ass here, but could you tell me where we found that out, Ranadiel?  I'm not asking for a link, just where/when they stated that.  It's new information to me. D&D Insider subscribers can also view this article (from Dragon #390) and scroll down to the Races section. The human option to take the encounter power Heroic Effort rather than the usual bonus at-will is briefly mentioned there.
#19 Silver_Blaze Aug 16, 2010 17:24:32	I don't meant to sound like an ass here, but could you tell me where we found that out, Ranadiel?  I'm not asking for a link, just where/when they stated that.  It's new information to me. I hope you know I hate you right now for causing me to look for this. Post 37. *grumbles as he exits stage left* Of course, some of the information in that post is bunk(Elves get a Dex +Wis/Int not Dex+Int no choice), so it is still possible that you are right.  My understanding is that Humans get one or the other.  If they have a class without at-will attacks, such as the Knight or Thief, they get Heroic Effort, if they are a class with at-wills then they get the third at-will (though I would not be surprised if you can still take Heroic Effort even if your class has at-will attacks).
#20 mellored Aug 16, 2010 21:20:23	Humans will get the option (racial or at-will).  It's just that in the red box, alot of options are made for you, like stat placment.  So take anything info from the Red Box with a gain of salt. However, since the half-elf racial depends on at-wills, it seems highly likely that it will get an alternitive. And since it's often considered broken or useless, having it be completely replaced isn't out of the question either.
#21 Marandahir Aug 19, 2010 20:14:52	Thanks Ranadiel.  I'm sorry that I made you hate me. ;_; This all said and done, it actually improves human versatility, without improving human -power- per say, which is sort of the same thing as making other races more versatile via ability scores. Both are locked-in options: that is to say, once you make your character the versatility (and thus power) provided by the choice is closed.
#22 vzzrrkktiberias7 Aug 22, 2010 14:18:51	My Half-Elf Protecting Paladin functions just great with Eyebite as a Dilettante power. Becoming invisible to an enemy while wearing plate mail armor is nothing to be scoffed at. Plus, complaining about the Half-Elf's Dilettante power is like gripping about how the Eladrin racial trait Eladrin Weapon Proficiency limits you to a longsword. The 4th Half-Elf is way better than 3rd's and is equal to any other race in 4th.
#23 _Mithreinmaethor_ Aug 22, 2010 19:36:15	I can see the Half-elf having to choose between Human or Elf heritage to base what feats they can take....ala the Mul
#24 celticmutt Aug 23, 2010 0:03:11	I can see the Half-elf having to choose between Human or Elf heritage to base what feats they can take....ala the Mul As was stated earlier in the thread - that is taking away something from Half-Elves, something that the designers swear is not going to happen.  Additions or substitutes, not removals.