We all know how important D&D has been to not just the MMO(RPG) genre but also gaming itself. So why was this hallmark franchise tarnished, in my mind, by Turbine? Who at WotC signed off on this idea? I know so-called "roll" playing has been part of games like this forever, but seriously, what happened to actual, sincere, genuine ROLE-playing?
All Turbine did was make a glorified dungeon crawler. The dungeon-crawling is good, I give it that. I enjoyed most of the instances in the game. But it wasn't D&D. And seriously people, Eberron? Why not a time-tested and proven setting like the Realms, or Dragonlance?
As a D&D game, I was expecting utilities, tools, avenues or what have you, for role-playing, storytelling, and immersion. Nothing like that really exists in the game. I can't sit down at a tavern. I can't drink and eat. I can't rent a room, or travel to a different region with my mates. All I can do is run around Stormreach and...crawl dungeons.
I do concede that the game emulates the prototypical dungeon crawl very well, but any fan of D&D will know what I mean when I say that is really only half of the game. As a Dungeon Master (yeah, what's it to you?) I absolutely love creating a great story and plot for my players and sprinkling in things that don't just make the campaign compelling, but adds to it a level of immersion that some of my players didn't know existed in pen-and-paper games. I've run games and been in games and groups where I felt as immersed as I would reading a really great book. I'm sorry, but without the immersion, I just can't dig it.
As I said, I understand the appeal of the game, but it's a terrible waste of the franchise and IP as a whole.
Turbine isn't to blame; the genre is. All MMORPGs are dungeon-crawlers. Any future D&D MMO will also be a dungeon-crawler. That's just how the genre works.
They are also real-time; so a 4e MMORPG will use a very convoluted version of the rules. A lot of 4e does not transfer into real-time.
Turbine isn't to blame; the genre is. All MMORPGs are dungeon-crawlers. Any future D&D MMO will also be a dungeon-crawler. That's just how the genre works.
Incorrect.
Is EVE Online a dungeon crawler? What about Darkfall (despite how horrid it may be)? Star Wars Galaxies? Nope, not dungeon crawlers. Sandboxes. Freedom. Choice. Consequences.
Incorrect.
Is EVE Online a dungeon crawler? What about Darkfall (despite how horrid it may be)? Star Wars Galaxies? Nope, not dungeon crawlers. Sandboxes. Freedom. Choice. Consequences.
EVE... the universes biggest dungeon...
I play eve an i have to disagree. The only differance is that in this dungeon the PC are hunting you.
Personally and for quality's sake, I believe the best option for 4e as a video game is good old turned based strategy. If it's turn based, it's probably better off being single player. In fact, I sincerely hope this is one of the things that happens.
However, for whatever reason the North American market does not appreciate this type of game, which is unfortunate. They make it onto PC, but are appreciated by a select few. Let's face it, given that WotC doesn't make video games themselves the bottom line will not be, "What kind of game will mesh the best?" The bottom line will be "What kind of game will bring in the most money?"
Personally and for quality's sake, I believe the best option for 4e as a video game is good old turned based tactical. If it's turn based, it's probably better off being single player. In fact, I sincerely hope this is one of the things that happens.
Fixed that for ya
And I agree with your last statement there. I want a Gold Box-style 4e game.
However, I personally have problems playing in NWN unless I'm, say...Fighter or Barbarian. Because the real-time rounds passed by two quick to take full advantage of them.
As such, I hope that it turns out to be a turn-based MMO, with encounters coming up as dynamic "instances" whenever an encounter happens...but an otherwise persistent world.
4E made into a turn-based tactical combat game like Disgaea or Final Fantasy Tactics could possibly end up as one of my favorite games of all time. Assuming it was updated regularly to allow the inclusion of new rules options such as classes, feats, powers, etc (or if such options were left open for user-made mods).
if only they would get that online dungeon thing going like they said they would when 4e was announced
If you just want fantasy Roleplaying game set in medieval setting play...
Everquest, or
World of Warcraft, or
EQ2, or
GuildWars, or
AoC, or
LotRO, or
Vanguard, or
Horizons, or
Final Fantasy Online, or
DDO or...
If they do make a 4e MMO, I hope they sign on the people who created Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights (both 1 and 2) because those were done quite well, and did have online interactivity involved.
However, I personally have problems playing in NWN unless I'm, say...Fighter or Barbarian. Because the real-time rounds passed by two quick to take full advantage of them.
I guarantee you will have this problem in a real time version of 4e with the power system. For instance, two at-will attacks to choose from is already problematic. It's possible to work it out in a "first choice" system, but the static slugfest nature of these games really ruins the fantastic tactical nature of 4e combat.
Baulder's Gate was a decent rendition of 2e simply because 2e wasn't as necessarily tactical. It didn't require a battle board or anything of the sort, and my understanding is most people just played it without any such tools (at least I did).
I'm drooling just thinking about. Imagine making your own 5 character party with every single choice your own to make the exact party you want. That combined with an open world do what you want style of roleplaying (a la fallout) is a recipe for one of the greatest video games ever.
But alas, as I said before, because WotC is not directly involved in the development (or at least the game structure parts), making the greatest game ever probably isn't their concern. They've already expressed themselves with the release of the table-top version.
Turbine isn't to blame; the genre is. All MMORPGs are dungeon-crawlers. Any future D&D MMO will also be a dungeon-crawler. That's just how the genre works.
Warhammer Online says hi.
Done. Oh, look, it's FFXI.
It would be pretty easy to do the powers in a 4e mmo. All encounter powers are on a cooldown of, say 1-5 minutes. All dailies are on a 1 hour cooldown. Make the world clock spin a day every hour.
Done. Oh, look, it's FFXI.
What about pushing, pulling, sliding especially. Yes, you could run the powers on a clock, but that's not my concern. My concern is more along the lines of opportunely using tide of iron because the hobgoblins are phalanxed and then captializing on the weakened state, or choosing two targets with twin strike.
You could make a game with all the same features and powers, but realtime changes the game completely... it's no longer 4e, only a facsimile.
Personally, i can't say I'd like a game that was only based on D&D. I want a game that IS D&D. In other words, what ever happened to that online game table that was announced at 4E's release?
The game table was not going to adjudicate rules. It was just going to be a 3D representation of a map and PC minis and Monster minis. With tools to place marks/curse etc on an enemy. There were other tools as well if I remember right (fog of war). And I suppose it could be programmed to determine cover etc as well. But it is on the shelf for now.
They are also real-time; so a 4e MMORPG will use a very convoluted version of the rules. A lot of 4e does not transfer into real-time.
Actually, there are turn-based MMOs, just not any extremely popular (or spectacular) ones.
Incorrect.
Is EVE Online a dungeon crawler? What about Darkfall (despite how horrid it may be)? Star Wars Galaxies? Nope, not dungeon crawlers. Sandboxes. Freedom. Choice. Consequences.
Whether you call it a dungeon or not, those games have the same structure as most of them. You have a safe area (in EVE it's space stations, and in most others it's cities), and you have a mob field (whether it's dungeons, or just the areas outside of the city/space station).
MMOs can literally be split into two types, and all of them fall into one or the other... combat-based MMOs, which 90% of the industry is; and social-based MMOs, like Sims Online or Second Life.
Seriously its hard to deny that 4e does not have a MMO feel to it at least in some respects. I would honestly rather see the game table we were sold when 4e released than anything else right now, that'd be much much better if you ask me.
4E made into a turn-based tactical combat game like Disgaea or Final Fantasy Tactics could possibly end up as one of my favorite games of all time. Assuming it was updated regularly to allow the inclusion of new rules options such as classes, feats, powers, etc (or if such options were left open for user-made mods).
Oh man. Even thinking about something like this is making me salivate. Especially if they allowed you to custom-make your entire party, like in Atari's TOEE. Want to play 5 rogues? Go for it, pal!
iYo Quiero! DO WANT.
What about pushing, pulling, sliding especially.
Sliding would be hard, but Warhammer Online has powers that can push and pull.
That's just my opinion.
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Seriously its hard to deny that 4e does not have a MMO feel to it at least in some respects.
I deny it. See, that was easy!
4e has no more of "an MMO feel to it" than any other edition of D&D. What is "an MMO feel" anyway?
Edit: Oh, and there are already "game table" type applications out there that you can use to play D&D online. See the "Digital D&D" subforum for more information.
I deny it. See, that was easy!
4e has no more of "an MMO feel to it" than any other edition of D&D. What is "an MMO feel" anyway?
I don't recommend entertaining this topic further, it won't end well. Instead, let us focus on the greatness that would be, "D&D 4E Tactics!"
I don't recommend entertaining this topic further, it won't end well. Instead, let us focus on the greatness that would be, "D&D 4E Tactics!"
Fair point.
Hey, is SSI still in business? 4TH ED GOLD BOX NAO PLZ
Slides could be harder, but a good interface can deal with it (like offering possible routes and having in game rouns last 6 sec - that's plenty of time to make any decision.
In short - give me D&D WoW with Age of Conan/Dark Messiah of MM battles.
Fair point.
Hey, is SSI still in business? 4TH ED GOLD BOX NAO PLZ
Kinda
UbiSoft is what they are called now.
They are also real-time; so a 4e MMORPG will use a very convoluted version of the rules. A lot of 4e does not transfer into real-time.
I don't want real-time myself. That said, MMO isn't what I'd want either. A game that could be played stand alone or with a group of people either on a console, or via online. Something similar to Fire Emblem, but with multiple player support.
Just remembering Fire Emblem makes me want to play it again.
I can see something quite spectacular being put together - but it would require some kind of hybridization of 4E mechanics.
Ctrl + P!
Lovely Magical Keyboard GO!
SINGLE PLAYER!
TURN BASED!
EBERRON!
FINAL DESTINATION!