And those had better be the at-wills!
*Shakes fist*
Where's my psion!
I guess I can wait until 2010 if I must, but it just seems unnecessary. They probably have the classes all polished out already.
I am hoping the Ampersand or Dragon Editorial tonight will have some discussion of what the coming months previews for PHB3 will be. If we are really lucky hopefully a list like the Eberron Player's Guide list.
please 'santa' bill I have been a good boy all year and I really want a list of up and coming previews...
I guess I can wait until 2010 if I must, but it just seems unnecessary. They probably have the classes all polished out already.
Considering that they've just started playtesting the Monk ....... no. They probably aren't even close to having finished versions of most classes.
Considering that they've just started playtesting the Monk ....... no. They probably aren't even close to having finished versions of most classes.
Weren't they trying to fit Psionics in PHB2 though? So perhaps they are farther ahead with Psionics then we think.
Considering that they've just started playtesting the Monk ....... no. They probably aren't even close to having finished versions of most classes.
There is a difference between a preview playtest and real playtests. I'm sure all of the Psionic classes are in playtest as we speak. So I'm sure they could produce a preview playtest for the Psionic classes however, why reveal all your cards all at once? We still have 9 months before the PHB 3 releases, which means we have a long way to go...
I just want some Psion!!
In July, the psion player character class debuts, complete and fully loaded in theD&D Character Builder so you can dive right in and start making psion characters for your next game session.
I didn't get my list, but we did get in Ampersand:
I am totally making a Psion. Hopefully it is in the beginning of July we get it.
I didn't get my list, but we did get in Ampersand:
woo I called it a month ago! :D
Still, I'm all the more excited for July's early D&Di releases!
I'm a bit disappointed they called it the Psion though. A bit generic flavour if you ask me. Esper, Telepath, Erudite, there are plenty of names for a class without invoking the power source itself in the name.
Still, I'm all the more excited for July's early D&Di releases!
Yeah was hoping for Telepath....I am guessing the builds for the Psion might have the names "Telepath", "Telekinetic"...etc.
Yeah was hoping for Telepath....I am guessing the builds for the Psion might have the names "Telepath", "Telekinetic"...etc.
Since the overall class name didn't get as specific as either of those (telepath or telekinetic), we may see a 3e psion-lite. I don't mean that negatively, just that it will probably retain a smattering of all the 3e disciplines. There'll prolly be an energy blast or two somewheres but with maybe a focus on telepathy and tk as you suggested.
Is this now our Psion speculation thread?
I can see it being like the Wizard in being the generalist controller amongst the Psionic classes. Hopefully it won't be TOO similar to the Wizard, though. What separated the Psion from the Wizard was mostly the Psi Point system, which, with everything under the At-will/Encounter/Daily/Utility system, would not be a difference.
We could see some of the Psion disciplines getting upgraded to classes while others become builds of the Psion, much like Illusionist, Evoker, and Conjuror make up three of the four officially-released builds of the Wizard (though the Evoker is now the War Wizard and the Conjuror the Summoner Wizard).
Probably (in terms of this being the thread for speculations).
Cool.
I can see it being like the Wizard in being the generalist controller amongst the Psionic classes. Hopefully it won't be TOO similar to the Wizard, though. What separated the Psion from the Wizard was mostly the Psi Point system, which, with everything under the At-will/Encounter/Daily/Utility system, would not be a difference.
Which points to the excellent question: How might the Psion differ from the Wizard? One thing might be more charm and domination effects that wreak havoc on multiple enemies.
We could see some of the Psion disciplines getting upgraded to classes while others become builds of the Psion, much like Illusionist, Evoker, and Conjuror make up three of the four officially-released builds of the Wizard (though the Evoker is now the War Wizard and the Conjuror the Summoner Wizard).
That's a cool way to break stuff down. I might venture some of the following 3e-to-4e random thoughts:
- Since 4e Psionic powers are called "disciplines," the Wilder will become a PP rather than a base class.
- The Ardent may become a build of the Empath, while the Divine Mind is simply absorbed therein or disintegrated (save or die).
- The Psionic defender class will take the War Mind's stuff, as well as the 3e disciplines of psychometabolism and clairsentience (the latter being spread amongst all the psionic classes but with the most combat-oriented powers in this class.)
- The telepathy and psychokinesis 3e disciplines will be melded into the Psion class.
- Psychoportation will fall to the Psionic striker class, along with an Elocator PP.
- And lastly I liked somebody's idea of the Soulknife as a special Monk build or feat chain rather than a standalone striker class.
Since the overall class name didn't get as specific as either of those (telepath or telekinetic), we may see a 3e psion-lite. I don't mean that negatively, just that it will probably retain a smattering of all the 3e disciplines. There'll prolly be an energy blast or two somewheres but with maybe a focus on telepathy and tk as you suggested.
Is this now our Psion speculation thread?
Aye just guessing here but the Psion will be the generalist....there will be multiple builds. A psion can choose any of the powers but chosing a build makes certain powers more powerful - kinda like the Covenants of the invokers. So if you choose the "telepath" build, the telepathic attack powers will be more powerful to you.
Each build will give you an ability...."telepath" would give you either telepathy 5 or maybe a Mindlink power. The kineticist will be other. More will come out in other books such as "Psionic Power". There will still be powers dealing with teleportation and precognition as utility powers.
I think there will also be a Psi-crystal feat where you can choose the "ability" like the Arcane Familiar.
The "mindblade" aka "soulknife" ability will be a multiclass weapon type of feat....drop the "soul" and use "mind" instead.
I think the Psion will have Simple weapon proficiency with no armor proficiency.
I still can't wait, mind you!
Apologies if someone already pointed this out, but the Psion preview we get next month will only be one build, from 1-30 AFAIK. It's finished and final, but it's still only one build; they want to keep some incentive for us to eventually buy the book. :P
I still can't wait, mind you!
didn't know that - thanks for letting me know
I just hope it is the "telepath" build!
I'm a bit disappointed they called it the Psion though. A bit generic flavour if you ask me. Esper, Telepath, Erudite, there are plenty of names for a class without invoking the power source itself in the name.
'Psion' is arguably better than 'psionicist' (which is what the class was called in the Complete Psionics Handbook for 2nd edition ;).
'Psy-on-i-kist' and 'psy-on-i-sist'; was never quite sure which was *correct* pronuncian (or if both were). I'd guess the latter though ;).
[Edit: How do you spell 'pronuncian' anyway :P? Did I get it right?
[Edit: How do you spell 'pronuncian' anyway :P? Did I get it right?]
Nope, not quite. The vowels change here. Remember, "I pronounce the pronunciation." You drop an "o" out of the second one.
That's the main part folks get wrong. The rest is pretty straightforward.
didn't know that - thanks for letting me know
I just hope it is the "telepath" build!
Bill S. also said that over the course of the next nine months, we'd see possibly as many as five of the new PH3 classes receive this sort of preview treatment. Thus, if it turns out that the Psion isn't the telepath you're looking for, perhaps one of the others will be!
Bill S. also said that over the course of the next nine months, we'd see possibly as many as five of the new PH3 classes receive this sort of preview treatment. Thus, if it turns out that the Psion isn't the telepath you're looking for, perhaps one of the others will be!
We(The DDI Subscribed) Will be getting(Starting in June, with the Character builder update) A full build of a finished Psionic class, starting with the Monk(which is still in playtest, but does seem to be fully complete). I know there will be a Psion(the Design&Development article alluded to it in a way), and likely we will see some feats, definitely the hybrid classes, and a few other things that were mentioned.
From what I can tell, the classes the subscribers will see are fully polished, not playtest classes.
I am putting my money on the Psion being the Controller and the one oriented around using telekenesis mainly. The Empath is my bet for the telepath. Though I could see a fair bit of crisscrossing as well.
That could serve as a really good way to distinguish the two classes from each other. I do have one reservation, though, and that is that mental attacks seem pretty iconic to the Psion class IMHO. Crisscrossing might not cut it. Still, the ambiguity of what powers will fall (or be emphasized) under what class certainly has room to come into more focus.
Out of curiousity, could the Empath be viable if built in the other direction, i.e., having almost entirely so-called "passive" psi powers with only a few emotiony-type attacks or something??
Lastly, did anyone try the suggested augment feature? (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080801a) Suppose that will be found across the Psionic power source?
Bel
I think many of you that used psionics in 3.x will be disappointed at the way psionics works in 4E, the class names may be the same, but the mechanics will be the same as the other power sources. The pseudo-science will be left behind.
The mechanics I am fine with leaving behind. But that doesn't mean that the pseudo-science will disappear. One doesn't equal the other.
, definitely the hybrid classes, and a few other things that were mentioned.
I really hope they do include the hybrid of the psion....a multiclass feat would be nice too.
Imho, the Psion will be a controller with builds centered around
A) Precognition & Mind Control and
B)Telekenesis & Energy manipulation.
Each build will be characterised by either a "metamagic" like effect which can be used to alter all thier powers so that they fit the build's general theme, or a minor-action attack that deals controller effects but no damage.
Where does the idea that any Psionic class will be purely telepathy/telekenesis come from? It'd be like having arcane made up of "Fire Mage" and "Cold Mage".
I really hope they do include the hybrid of the psion....a multiclass feat would be nice too.
I suspect a multiclass feat will show up with each class as its updated to the CB, however hybrid psionic classes I'm not too sure about seeing just yet. Though it would be interesting to see them too.
Ah, delicious speculation :D
Where does the idea that any Psionic class will be purely telepathy/telekenesis come from? It'd be like having arcane made up of "Fire Mage" and "Cold Mage".
They do, it's called the Storm Sorcerer :D
Well, granted, the Storm sorcerer can deal with wind-based (non-energy, but yeah), thunder-based, lightning-based, and even some cold-based (blizzards) powers. But it's still a really limited concept in terms of energy build for an arcane class.
As for speculation, I'd like to see Empath powers dealing with healing allies by transferring that pain over the the Empath, and then converting it into a psychological nightmare that is then unleashed upon the enemies. That could be a high end power. Something my fictional "Pain-splitter" Empaths did in one of my story concepts that I've been working on over the years.
They do, it's called the Storm Sorcerer :D
Well, granted, the Storm sorcerer can deal with wind-based (non-energy, but yeah), thunder-based, lightning-based, and even some cold-based (blizzards) powers. But it's still a really limited concept in terms of energy build for an arcane class.
I dunno, it's focused on a particular aspect, and it still manages to squeeze three different energy types (plus untyped) damage into its build. AFAIAC, that's a win; it's thematically focused, but it's not got the vulnerability that a class has when it relies upon a single damage type.
Ah, delicious speculation :D
Imho, the Psion will be a controller with builds centered around
A) Precognition & Mind Control and
B)Telekenesis & Energy manipulation.
Each build will be characterised by either a "metamagic" like effect which can be used to alter all thier powers so that they fit the build's general theme, or a minor-action attack that deals controller effects but no damage.
I agree with this assessment on how the Psion will turn out.
- Psionic Controller
Key stats: Constitution, Charisma, Intelligence. Charisma will be important for Telepaths, and Intelligence for Kineticists. Not sure whether they'll have it as a dual-stat set up like the Cleric or a single prime stat with two possible secondary stats. Alternatively, Wisdom may replace Constitution if they're going for an extreme "mind over matter" feel.
Implements: Crystals. The psi-crystal will probably make a return appearance as the implement for most of the psionic classes (like the totem is a primal implement). I don't see psions using wands or staffs, since their magic is more internal and subtle than a wizard's. They might use orbs as a second implement, though, since those may fit the flavor better (plus orb enchantments may help the psion in imposing conditions).
Builds:
- Telepath Psion: The psionic enchanter. Has a lot of powers that inflict conditions and psychic damage on enemies. May also have the ability to temporarily take control of enemies and use their own powers against them.
- Kineticist Psion: The psionic blaster. Focuses primarily on force damage, with a few fire and lightning powers for the pyrokineticists out there. A lot of his powers will push, pull, and shift enemies, imposing control by manipulating their positions with telekinetic force.
Psions should have an array of cantrip-like at-will powers that represent minor psychic abilities (such as a minor telekinesis power similar to mage hand or a power that lets him communicate telepathically).
Psions should have an array of cantrip-like at-will powers that represent minor psychic abilities (such as a minor telekinesis power similar to mage hand or a power that lets him communicate telepathically).
This would be cool, but I'd build them into the at-wills. That we we'd avoid wizard comparisons, and it would continue the monk's trope of having powers with multiple uses.
This would be cool, but I'd build them into the at-wills. That we we'd avoid wizard comparisons, and it would continue the monk's trope of having powers with multiple uses.
Off-topic Grammar Lesson
Technically, the word you want here is shtick, not trope. A shtick refers to a recurring pattern of behaviour, but a trope refers to a recurring literary element or theme. A person can't have actually a trope, but they can have a shtick. (A person can have a trope applied to them, though.) "Trope" sounds kinda weird if you try to use it with something that you can't analyze in a literary way.
"Trope" is similar in meaning to "shtick", but it's also completely inapplicable to the context in which you used it. It's hard to think of a really good analogy for this kind of error, but one example might be, "The car swims down the road,"; "swims" is similar to "drives", but it's also completely inapplicable. (Cars don't really ever "swim", not even if they're driving through deep water.)
"Trope" is similar in meaning to "shtick", but it's also completely inapplicable to the context in which you used it. It's hard to think of a really good analogy for this kind of error, but one example might be, "The car swims down the road,"; "swims" is similar to "drives", but it's also completely inapplicable. (Cars don't really ever "swim", not even if they're driving through deep water.)
So, explain the difference between 'trope' and 'motiff'.
Further Off-Topic Grammar Musings
Hmm, a challenge, eh? Alright, I'll give it a shot!
AFAIK, a motif (spelled with one "f" :P) is a recurring element in a narrative -- like a trope -- except that a motif is symbolically significant, whereas tropes usually aren't. Because of that symbolic significance aspect of a motif, a motif is generally more tailored to the narrative and its message than a trope; in contrast, a trope is more of a "clichéd" element than a symbolic one.
How'd I do?
AFAIK, a motif (spelled with one "f" :P) is a recurring element in a narrative -- like a trope -- except that a motif is symbolically significant, whereas tropes usually aren't. Because of that symbolic significance aspect of a motif, a motif is generally more tailored to the narrative and its message than a trope; in contrast, a trope is more of a "clichéd" element than a symbolic one.
How'd I do?
At first I didn't like Cha for the former build, but I think I was reactionarily (<--almost a word!) pigeonholing Charisma = friendly & pretty. :embarrass Tossing that aside, Cha seems to makes sense and fit. (My first thought, actually, was, "Isn't Sylar a sort of mentalist? But does he have high Cha?")
On the other hand, Con as primary for the entire class seems odd, but as one of the keys is okay.
@Badger: How would you fit psionic "cantrips" into at-wills?
Hit: 1d8 damage. Effect: You levitate a small object??Further Off-Topic Grammar MusingsHmm, a challenge, eh? Alright, I'll give it a shot!
AFAIK, a motif (spelled with one "f" :P) is a recurring element in a narrative -- like a trope -- except that a motif is symbolically significant, whereas tropes usually aren't. Because of that symbolic significance aspect of a motif, a motif is generally more tailored to the narrative and its message than a trope; in contrast, a trope is more of a "clichéd" element than a symbolic one.
How'd I do?
@Badger: How would you fit psionic "cantrips" into at-wills?
Two possibilities.
A) "Target: One creature or Object. Hit: Slide the target X squares. Enemies take 1d4 + wisdom modifier force damage."
B) Associate each at-will with a cantrip. When you choose the at-will, you learn the cantrip as well.
@ doctorhook:- Looks like somebody took Improved Grammar last level. :P
Dear Doctor Hook,
I didn't think it was quite possible, but I in fact now love you MOAR than ever.
Your number one stalker/fan,
Scales
/shortestfanletterevar
Off-Topic
Close! It was actually the introductory "Grammar Monster" Bloodline feat, which provides me with a similar skill bonus to grammar as Improved Grammar.
Weirdly enough, this doesn't really bother me at all! Although maybe if you'd like to show your affection for me, you should bold my name and put me in front of Ranadiel on the list in your sig. He'll understand! ;)
@ doctorhook:- Looks like somebody took Improved Grammar last level. :P
Close! It was actually the introductory "Grammar Monster" Bloodline feat, which provides me with a similar skill bonus to grammar as Improved Grammar.
Re: Off-Topic Grammar Lessons
Dear Doctor Hook,
I didn't think it was quite possible, but I in fact now love you MOAR than ever.
Your number one stalker/fan,
Scales
/shortestfanletterevar
Weirdly enough, this doesn't really bother me at all! Although maybe if you'd like to show your affection for me, you should bold my name and put me in front of Ranadiel on the list in your sig. He'll understand! ;)
Crap. Edited for idiocy.
ええ?
I didn't get my list, but we did get in Ampersand:
In July, the psion player character class debuts, complete and fully loaded in theD&D Character Builder so you can dive right in and start making psion characters for your next game session.
That means I'll be getting that DDI subscription after all.
I'd really like it if instead of movement, a psion's full discipline powers had an alternate ultilityesque ability like the one Axiomatic_Badger posted.
The suspense is killing me!!!!
Apologies if someone already pointed this out, but the Psion preview we get next month will only be one build, from 1-30 AFAIK. It's finished and final, but it's still only one build; they want to keep some incentive for us to eventually buy the book. :P
I still can't wait, mind you!
Where do you get this? The Ampersand Article says:
In July, the psion player character class debuts, complete and fully loaded in the D&D Character Builder so you can dive right in and start making psion characters for your next game session.
Although it later says they'll give us one build from each of five classes, I think the phrase "complete and fully loaded" implies that we'll get the whole psion, not just one build. Even though its not game rules, I think the rule of specific beats general applies here.
:D
I'm dearly hoping for a wide variety of Psion powers in the class both subtle "His nose starts bleeding and then he slumps over from a massive aneurysm" and overt "You pick him up with your mind like a rag doll and slam him into the spiked ramparts". Likewise with the utility powers. :D
Yes! Yes!
Hopefully FINALLY a mind-reading utility! :D
Some telekinetic shields would be nice too.
Yes! Yes!
Hopefully FINALLY a mind-reading utility! :D
Some telekinetic shields would be nice too.
I just got a mental image of a party hunkered down behind some cover, trying to figure out how to advance on a row of enemy crossbowmen. The Psion says "I don't think they can hit us here..." A few bolts promptly fly into the group, but are stopped short by the Psion's telekinetic shield. They glare at him, and he replies "What? I told you I didn't think they can hit us here..." :P
Off-topic Grammar LessonTechnically, the word you want here is shtick, not trope. A shtick refers to a recurring pattern of behaviour, but a trope refers to a recurring literary element or theme. A person can't have actually a trope, but they can have a shtick. (A person can have a trope applied to them, though.) "Trope" sounds kinda weird if you try to use it with something that you can't analyze in a literary way.
"Trope" is similar in meaning to "shtick", but it's also completely inapplicable to the context in which you used it. It's hard to think of a really good analogy for this kind of error, but one example might be, "The car swims down the road,"; "swims" is similar to "drives", but it's also completely inapplicable. (Cars don't really ever "swim", not even if they're driving through deep water.)