Jump to 4e. I STILL can't for some reason bring myself to play a cleric, and I still have no intention of ever making a paladin =p My reaction to the invoker has been mostly "meh", I'll have to see the rest of the class to make a final judgement.
But now after seeing not even as much as we would see with the normal preview articles (almost as much, just a few powers missing, since the d&d experience character sheets don't have every 1-3 lvl power) I am already salivating for the avenger. This has to be the very first divine class I ever seen that makes me excited (i still don't count 3-3.5 druid to be divine despite whatever the rules say). It really has that hooded figure of divine justice. Very assassin's creed-ish. The plethora of teleporting effects at first made me go "eh? O_o" with an odd look but the longer I been looking at it the better the flavor seems.
I was actually expecting the avenger to be a dual weapon striker, i'm a little disappointed it's not but I suppose 2-h is fine too, took me some getting used to but I have character concepts designed around it not.
Now I need to look up the rules of using encounter powers and daily powers outside of combat ^.^ have a jumping, leaping avenger that uses his teleport powers to make longer jumps and reach new heights when he reaches the apex of his leap.
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. Hope the Avenger turns out to be a good class.
Divine Classes mostly use 2handed weapons. Why? Normally dual wield training takes too much time and divine classes spend most of their times for religious training. This is not offical information but this explains why they mostly use 2 handed weapons because this is easier style
Well we have only seen one build so far there could easily be a two weapon build or a ranged build as well.
Well we have only seen one build so far there could easily be a two weapon build or a ranged build as well.
Non-martial classes typically don't have builds that vary for weapon style. Still, maybe the 2-handed build is sub-roled into defender/leader, and there's a two weapon build is pure striker (I can't think of what else it'd be).
Its really not that hard to build a duel wielding avenger. Multiclass into some ranger or fighter powers... boom. Or if you want to go more rogue, take two weapon defense, proficiency in a parrying dagger, and rapier, and then multiclass into rogue.
Actually the concept I have for a character is a rogue multi classed avenger. It would be awsome to do that, especially once we see the avenger paragon paths.
Yea, I am pretty excited about the Avenger as well. Except for one thing, one thing about the class really sucks: the name. Couldn't SOMEONE out there come up with a better name then Avenger? Anything? Inquisitor? Confessor? Scourge? Every time I hear them called Avenger, I keep expecting captain America to jump out with a shield emblazoned with the sign of the silver flame.
I agree wit the feeling that they could have used a better name, But I have a feeling that to many of the "cooler" fitting names would lead to bad jokes, like inquisitor.
I agree wit the feeling that they could have used a better name, But I have a feeling that to many of the "cooler" fitting names would lead to bad jokes, like inquisitor.
And we don't get a lot of bad jokes from Avengers?
And we don't get a lot of bad jokes from Avengers?
True, but what would give the worst jokes?
It is all a moot point though, in the long run, They might have wanted to save better names for PPs and Epic destinies.
And Avenger really isn't a bad name. Would you rather have fellow players think of your character as a super hero in a super team, or a Monty Python skit?
I'm glad they went with Avenger, over any other name I've seen proposed. Inquisitor is to niche, and doesn't carry nearly the same potency. Scourge? Sounds to evil, and carries to much flavor with the name alone.
And Avenger really isn't a bad name. Would you rather have fellow players think of your character as a super hero in a super team, or a Monty Python skit?
Or a super hero in a monty python skit.
Also, the Avenger is shaping up to be pretty cool I think
this topic deserves this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLD1yq7eVoY
I will bring a laptop to the table just to play this sound whenever I am currently taking my turn :D
Yea. I've got this shtick for an avenger of the silver flame (Eberron) I would love to run one day. He would have a greatsword called Justice. But people wouldn't need to fear justice. Justice only comes to the wicked and the guilty. What they need to fear is question, because if they can't answer his, they are in for a world of pain...
Lawful Evil? Oh wait LE is gone. Bah. I'm no Eberron expert, but aren't a lot of Silver Flamers evil, but think they're good?
My Avenger will at least be unaligned. I can't really see any Avenger being good.
I'm also like Fox. The divine classes have never really appealed to me until the Avenger. There's something about a total nut swinging a big sharp hunk of steel, smiting his god's enemies left and right that makes me smile (in a fantasy world of course).
Lawful Evil? Oh wait LE is gone. Bah. I'm no Eberron expert, but aren't a lot of Silver Flamers evil, but think they're good?
A "lot"? No. A sizable minority? Yes.
This particular character would be unaligned however. He works towards distinctly good ends. In order to do so he performs some distinctly evil acts. The result is a lack of true alignment. Pretty much, he would see himself as a necessary evil in the production of a "new and better world," a world where people like him would no longer be needed.
A "lot"? No. A sizable minority? Yes.
This particular character would be unaligned however. He works towards distinctly good ends. In order to do so he performs some distinctly evil acts. The result is a lack of true alignment. Pretty much, he would see himself as a necessary evil in the production of a "new and better world," a world where people like him would no longer be needed.
Someone's been watching Serenity.
Someone's been watching Serenity.
Yes, yes I have. :P
But, this character would not work in service of a government (except that as he is a cleric of the silver flame, he does, because Thrane is a theocracy ruled by the silver flame) so much as for a religion. And he would wield a great sword.
Hopefully there will be a ranged Avenger build either in PH2 or in Divine Power so some folks can make Silver Flame Avengers that actually use the favored weapon of the religion, the longbow.
It is even more awesome when one considers this character is a Shadar-Kai, worships the Raven Queen, and weilds a scythe. Yes, he is an Avenger.
And yes, we are fighting hordes of undead in the Shadowfel, how did you know? :D
I think its funny how many people are automatically gravitating towards Silver Flame Avengers. And all of them that I have read have also said they plan on Greatswords or Fullblades.
Hopefully there will be a ranged Avenger build either in PH2 or in Divine Power so some folks can make Silver Flame Avengers that actually use the favored weapon of the religion, the longbow.
The previews seem to indicate that while they gain some ranged powers, those powers are mostly designed to bring the avenger's target back into melee range. I think your hope has thin legs. Though I will certainly be happy if I am wrong...
As for why a greatsword or fullblade, because it was the weapon of the Silver Flame (at least Thrane's interpretation of it) primary saint.
Know what's got me psyched as a DM for the avenger? The Assassin multiclass coming up in Dragon in the next couple of months. Muhahahaha!
Oh yeah! Definitely looking forward to the Assassin, a Shadar-kai Avenger/Assassin...ughhhh...
Bel
The previews seem to indicate that while they gain some ranged powers, those powers are mostly designed to bring the avenger's target back into melee range. I think your hope has thin legs. Though I will certainly be happy if I am wrong...
As for why a greatsword or fullblade, because it was the weapon of the Silver Flame (at least Thrane's interpretation of it) primary saint.
Ahh I see now. I was unaware of the Fullblade/Greatsword weilding primary saint. Is this a referal to the one that joined with the couatl in the silver flame? Can't recall the name. I am guessing that the legend was expanded upon in the Faiths of Eberron book (which I missed out on).
Yea, I am pretty excited about the Avenger as well. Except for one thing, one thing about the class really sucks: the name. Couldn't SOMEONE out there come up with a better name then Avenger? Anything? Inquisitor? Confessor? Scourge?
I think it was originally Templar.
Ahh I see now. I was unaware of the Fullblade/Greatsword weilding primary saint. Is this a referal to the one that joined with the couatl in the silver flame? Can't recall the name. I am guessing that the legend was expanded upon in the Faiths of Eberron book (which I missed out on).
I can't remember which book I read it in. Its either in the Eberron Campaign Setting or Five Nations. One of those books mentions that Tira Miron (who is pretty much the warrior-christ like figure of Thrane's interpretation of the Silver Flame religion), who becomes the Voice of the Flame, faught with a greatsword. Its still not the religions primary weapon, that would be the longbow. But I am sure it influences a lot of the more melee oriented Silver Flame worshipers to emulate her. At least, that is my interpretation. And since it doesn't seem like Avengers will be viable as ranged characters, greatsword instead of longbow it is for my character (if I ever get a chance to play him).
I think it was originally Templar.
I am actually pretty sure it was always Avenger. I know a lot of us thought it would be Templar, but I don't know that anyone ever intended to name it that. I found out recently that in OD&D the "anti-hero/anti-paladin" style religious class was called an Avenger. The name is probably a hearkening back/reference to that class.
Also, another interesting thing to note, the Avenger seems to have had a previous incarnation as a 3e PrC as well: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a .
The current avenger actually seems like some sort of cross between the 3e and OD&D iterations of the class.
I am actually pretty sure it was always Avenger. I know a lot of us thought it would be Templar, but I don't know that anyone ever intended to name it that.
What do you think the "T" clue was about, then?
I don't have much of an idea.Kind of off topic but in the picture on the side, what is that race?
Hard to tell because of the glare. My instinct though is Deva.....although that would mean that both of the new divine classes have Devas as their "class" picture. I just double checked though and the Invoker has no pupils, so I'm going to go with Deva for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbcyiFt5VEs
Yea, I am pretty excited about the Avenger as well. Except for one thing, one thing about the class really sucks: the name. Couldn't SOMEONE out there come up with a better name then Avenger? Anything? Inquisitor? Confessor? Scourge? Every time I hear them called Avenger, I keep expecting captain America to jump out with a shield emblazoned with the sign of the silver flame.
And whats wrong with the image of Cap as an Avenger? He certainly fits the class's concept, and even the Aestehtic. In fact, i daresay if you had to pick a class for Cap, he would be an Avenger/Warlord MC. After all, he was fanatically devoted to a belief: the american ideal.
Ahh I see now. I was unaware of the Fullblade/Greatsword weilding primary saint. Is this a referal to the one that joined with the couatl in the silver flame? Can't recall the name. I am guessing that the legend was expanded upon in the Faiths of Eberron book (which I missed out on).
Tira Miron, a Paladin of Dol Arrah. Both she and a Coatal sacrificed themselves to bind a powerful fiend that was rampaging across the land, thus manifesting the Silver Flame, around which a city, a faith, and a nation was born. It should be tucked away somewhere in the main book.
The iconic weapon of the Silver Flame, however, is the longbow. The symbol of the Silver Flame is even an arrowhead with a flame motif, and priests and layfolk alike often practice archery as a form of meditation (and part of the faith's martial tradition).
Now if only I could get a tricked out wagon and a sidekick...
