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Bards: Arcane Warlords?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
tonguewrestler_dup
Sep 11, 2008 23:49:29 I have read a few posts lamenting the current absence of certain classes, usually accompanied by speculation regarding their possible roles, sub-roles, and build options. Notably, Barbarians, Druids, Sorcerers and Monks are the most discussed classes slated for future release from what I have seen. I don't have a shred of evidence to support this claim, it's just how I have percieved it. To a lesser degree of interest, the Bard has received some amount of attention.

I have read and re-read Saric's homebrewed Bard class at the following link: The 4e Bard

I think that it is a marvelously well-done 4th Edition iteration. It's extremely well detailed, complete, balanced, and all-in-all one of the best homebrews I have ever seen. If you're a Bard fan, or if you are a DM with a player itching to play a Bard, I would definitely recommend you take a look at it.

My only issue is this: it feels to me that this Bard is simply a re-flavored Inspiring Warlord. What's more is that I feel that it makes perfect sense, and that this is the angle Wizards of the Coast is going to use for the official Bard class when they release the next Player's Handbook.

I am of the opinion that the developers need to get creative with the Bard. I'm sure that musical instruments will factor as arcane implements, that they will still have their range of Bardic Music abilities, and so on, but what I don't want to see is Inspiring Word with the Implement keyword, or Commander's Strike with Arcane staring back at me from the page.

Am I the only one concerned that they may have blown their Leader wad a tad too soon, or am I missing some larger picture? I open the floor to discussion.

As always, thank you in advance for taking the time and mental energy to assuage my nail-biting.
#2
laredric
Sep 12, 2008 0:22:30 I hope that Bards are Leaders

I fear that they will be warmed over Warlords

and I suspect that the Player's Handbook 2 will have an expanded set of rules for skills, skill challenges, and NPC interactions that Bards will be well poised to take advantage of

The idea of a bard as something like a warlock, who makes an pact with a powerful being whom admires the bard's artistic merit I find very new and exciting, especially when you add a leader class to the mix. WoC may in fact, at last, build a bard that avoids being wildly overpowered (as in 1st Edition) or underpowered (in 3.0).

Alas, or they could screw it all up. Just don't make me play a flute in combat with Orcus, ok?
#3
belladonna5012
Sep 12, 2008 1:34:01 Part of me thinks that bards could have two builds, one ranged/implement-focused and one melee/swordplay-focused with songs for backup, with stat priorities probably being Cha/Int and Dex/Cha, respectively.

If the longer-ranged bard has a fair amount of control effects that work more like the feylock spells than like cleric prayers, that gives it some breathing room away from the extant leaders. A melee bard would probably have some things in common with the inspiring warlord, but as long as at least one of the builds gets away from that and the melee build (if there is one--though frankly, I think there ought to be) bears a few worthwhile differences (i.e., focus on Dex over Str, perhaps even a relationship to the rogue like the relationship the warlord shares with the fighter), I won't complain too much.
#4
salla
Sep 12, 2008 2:01:42 My take: Leaders do three things (basically); heal, buff, and positioning.

The cleric is the best healer.
The warlord is the best positioner.
The bard will probably be the best buffer.

The warlord is almost entirely a melee character; the cleric can do melee or ranged fairly well, so the bard, I suspect, will be predominantly ranged, with a lot of thunder (aka sonic) damage keywords, with perhaps a handful of psychic thrown in.
#5
Omni-Wyvernil
Sep 13, 2008 1:10:21
My take: Leaders do three things (basically); heal, buff, and positioning.

The cleric is the best healer.
The warlord is the best positioner.
The bard will probably be the best buffer.

The warlord is almost entirely a melee character; the cleric can do melee or ranged fairly well, so the bard, I suspect, will be predominantly ranged, with a lot of thunder (aka sonic) damage keywords, with perhaps a handful of psychic thrown in.

I'm guessing Shaman will be a ranged leader class as well; with a summon which can tank for him while granting buffs to nearby allies.

I'm going to guess that the main builds for Bard will be CHA/INT (instrument bard) and CHA/DEX (melee bard). Maybe the bard will use bardic weapon/implements (such as war fans) in melee, in which case there will probably be some sort of "Blade Dancer" paragon path letting them use light blades/longswords as implements.

The effect may be similar to a mix between a warlord and a fey-pact warlock; focusing on buffs, debuffs, and enchantment-type conditions. A leader that serves as a secondary controller, in short.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 tonguewrestler_dup Sep 11, 2008 23:49:29	I have read a few posts lamenting the current absence of certain classes, usually accompanied by speculation regarding their possible roles, sub-roles, and build options. Notably, Barbarians, Druids, Sorcerers and Monks are the most discussed classes slated for future release from what I have seen. I don't have a shred of evidence to support this claim, it's just how I have percieved it. To a lesser degree of interest, the Bard has received some amount of attention. I have read and re-read Saric's homebrewed Bard class at the following link: The 4e Bard I think that it is a marvelously well-done 4th Edition iteration. It's extremely well detailed, complete, balanced, and all-in-all one of the best homebrews I have ever seen. If you're a Bard fan, or if you are a DM with a player itching to play a Bard, I would definitely recommend you take a look at it. My only issue is this: it feels to me that this Bard is simply a re-flavored Inspiring Warlord. What's more is that I feel that it makes perfect sense, and that this is the angle Wizards of the Coast is going to use for the official Bard class when they release the next Player's Handbook. I am of the opinion that the developers need to get creative with the Bard. I'm sure that musical instruments will factor as arcane implements, that they will still have their range of Bardic Music abilities, and so on, but what I don't want to see is Inspiring Word with the Implement keyword, or Commander's Strike with Arcane staring back at me from the page. Am I the only one concerned that they may have blown their Leader wad a tad too soon, or am I missing some larger picture? I open the floor to discussion. As always, thank you in advance for taking the time and mental energy to assuage my nail-biting.
#2 laredric Sep 12, 2008 0:22:30	I hope that Bards are Leaders I fear that they will be warmed over Warlords and I suspect that the Player's Handbook 2 will have an expanded set of rules for skills, skill challenges, and NPC interactions that Bards will be well poised to take advantage of The idea of a bard as something like a warlock, who makes an pact with a powerful being whom admires the bard's artistic merit I find very new and exciting, especially when you add a leader class to the mix. WoC may in fact, at last, build a bard that avoids being wildly overpowered (as in 1st Edition) or underpowered (in 3.0). Alas, or they could screw it all up. Just don't make me play a flute in combat with Orcus, ok?
#3 belladonna5012 Sep 12, 2008 1:34:01	Part of me thinks that bards could have two builds, one ranged/implement-focused and one melee/swordplay-focused with songs for backup, with stat priorities probably being Cha/Int and Dex/Cha, respectively. If the longer-ranged bard has a fair amount of control effects that work more like the feylock spells than like cleric prayers, that gives it some breathing room away from the extant leaders. A melee bard would probably have some things in common with the inspiring warlord, but as long as at least one of the builds gets away from that and the melee build (if there is one--though frankly, I think there ought to be) bears a few worthwhile differences (i.e., focus on Dex over Str, perhaps even a relationship to the rogue like the relationship the warlord shares with the fighter), I won't complain too much.
#4 salla Sep 12, 2008 2:01:42	My take: Leaders do three things (basically); heal, buff, and positioning. The cleric is the best healer. The warlord is the best positioner. The bard will probably be the best buffer. The warlord is almost entirely a melee character; the cleric can do melee or ranged fairly well, so the bard, I suspect, will be predominantly ranged, with a lot of thunder (aka sonic) damage keywords, with perhaps a handful of psychic thrown in.
#5 Omni-Wyvernil Sep 13, 2008 1:10:21	My take: Leaders do three things (basically); heal, buff, and positioning. The cleric is the best healer. The warlord is the best positioner. The bard will probably be the best buffer. The warlord is almost entirely a melee character; the cleric can do melee or ranged fairly well, so the bard, I suspect, will be predominantly ranged, with a lot of thunder (aka sonic) damage keywords, with perhaps a handful of psychic thrown in. I'm guessing Shaman will be a ranged leader class as well; with a summon which can tank for him while granting buffs to nearby allies. I'm going to guess that the main builds for Bard will be CHA/INT (instrument bard) and CHA/DEX (melee bard). Maybe the bard will use bardic weapon/implements (such as war fans) in melee, in which case there will probably be some sort of "Blade Dancer" paragon path letting them use light blades/longswords as implements. The effect may be similar to a mix between a warlord and a fey-pact warlock; focusing on buffs, debuffs, and enchantment-type conditions. A leader that serves as a secondary controller, in short.