I for one will be buying this product, and desperately hope that they'll make more like it with different monster types. I *hate* buying individual minis and random mini packs, and dislike unpainted minis.
Another "thumbs up" on this from me. I hate the whole random sight-unseen concept because I tend to have certain monsters I use a lot and others I never use. Having lots of extras I don't use is a total waste.
However, it would also be really nice to see WotC put some effort into creating new sculpts for these sets.
It would be nice, but honestly, I'm just glad to see a pack where I actually know what I'm getting. And that its somehow themed. PHB Heroes was nice for the same reason: Being able to say "Hmm, one of my players wants to play a race from the new PH, and I dont have any minis of those. I guess I can go out and buy PHB Heroes #X for them" is wonderful.
Likewise, I would love to be able to say "I'm planning on running a campaign that will have a lot of [Insert Creature]. I guess I should go buy a few packs of [Creature Collection]" and not end up with a bunch of extras I either don't like or won't use because they're not something I use much.
I don't even care if they just 'reprint' mini molds they've done in the past (Like the Goblin mini that has shown up in 2 different expansions, AND Heroscape, or the ghoul mini thats in D&D Minis, Heroscape, AND Castleravenloft Board Game. Funny story there - its the ghoul mini from the two previous, but in Ravenloft its a zombie, lol). It would just be great to have themed, non-random packs, period.
I think it would be more productive to let your money speak rather than your posts. PHB Heroes and the visible packs bombed after all.
See I wonder about this though. You are right I can't argue that they bombed because man they did.
Though the visible monster packs, weren't visible. The only thing the offered people was the choice of which mini they were going to have an overabunence of. I mean, the Aurak Draconian in the huge set would have been outstanding if I knew it was in the box since I can use it as a Dragonborn PC, an Aurak, a Lizardman, or a Sorcerer King Epic Destiny mini. Way more useful than getting that fifth Unicorn. (I don't think they were the same set, but I just used it for the example)
I know I refused to buy the heroes packs because several of them were:
A) Terrible repaints of prior figures.
B) Prior rares that were a pain to get and cost way to much as singles (Dragonborn, Frenzied Beserker I'm looking right at you -.-)
C) Still rarely the minis I needed for my players (First 4th ed group was a Dragonborn Mage, a Dwarf Rogue, and a Human Fighter)
I mean maybe my group is odd in there choices, or I am odd in my monster choices, but for me personally alot of useful minis always turned out to be rare and not worth trying to randomly get them.
I mean maybe my group is odd in there choices, or I am odd in my monster choices, but for me personally alot of useful minis always turned out to be rare and not worth trying to randomly get them.
I know what you mean. I remember being angry at finding a second Emerald Orb Wizard (and mini packs are relatively more expensive here).
Monsters and story extras I'd gladly use more of if they came out like the Beholder and some of the other "this is what it is" visible packaging. I don't mind paying for what I can see, I'm not fond of parting with the dollar in this current economic clime for something I can't see.
The PC Minis were unpopular because most people only had a use for 1 or 2 of the minis but not all 3. The Partially viable Monster Minis sounded like a good idea until everyone picked the boxes with the Trolls and Aboleths and left all those boxes with the Horses to languish on the shelves. Reaper minis have the same problem - the most popular minis will sell like hotcakes but the more niche and more expensive varieties will often sit there unsold for a long time. Stores love selling products, the worst thing a product can do is not sell itself. When companies have a lot of left over stock, they don't buy new product because it's seen as a financial risk. If companies don't buy enough new product then WotC doesn't have the funds or the market to produce more new products down the line.
Its a vicious cycle but it is what it is.
We ALL want to be able to pick and choose the models we want but the system just isn't economically viable... Unless WotC decides to set up an Online Store to sell individual models but... that's just not in the cards for them at the moment (it also comes with the deficit of "robbing" local & Big Box stores of the mini market and has significantly less market penetration).
The Beholder set is definitely a test bed to see if this type of completely visible set of iconic minis is economically viable, so if you like the idea and want to see more box sets like it produced then BUY the Beholder set ASAP. If WotC sees high and quick sales, then that will definitely push them to do more products like this.
I for one, WILL be buying the Beholder set.
As for visibles, the thing I heard was that stores simply run out of space and therefore oppose to thematic packs, as well. I don't quite get why a set wouldn't sell well with the right choices, though. I mean the visible huge set (Legendary Evils) was the first one where I bought a whole case. I liked every single choice. You'd get two elder dragons guaranteed (have a look for how much you can buy the latest elder blue or elder copper - the latter looking a lot worse than the uncommon visible iron dragon), a massive beholder, a remorhaz, a nice looking titan, a long- wanted nasty demon - no make that two, how could I forget the balor? Imagine that thing would have been a Very Rare! You'd pay 60 bucks on the secondary market. Well, there were excellent choices, and I don't understand why they didn't sell well to be honest.
The same thing about the icons line. You still find the occassional Gargantuan Blue Dragon in Sydney, but the Black is sold out, and packs like the Icingdeath one should sell good, too. Clearly the best looking D&D mini to date with the added Drizzt/ Wulfgar combo and a map.
WotC, if you would at least release a gargantuan green dragon, I'd be really happy.
elder copper - the latter looking a lot worse than the uncommon visible iron dragon),
While I am disappointed by how few different colors (2 actually, on just covering the whole body and two white dots for eyes and they calls this one a very rare?!?) were used for this mini, the pose is IMHO the best of any huge dragon since the red in Giants of Legends
but the Black is sold out,
Because in the end they were basically throwing it you if you didn't close the store's door fast enough
At last I saw the gargantuan black being offered as a free extra for buying the Neverwinter Nights 2 (at the discount price of €19.99) or being sold individually for as less as €5.Only now that they seemed to have finally gotten rid of their stock of gargantuan blacks the last few left seem to have increased in price.
PS: Or maybe not get your gargantuan black for €17 on amazon Germany. Funny how the gargantuan blue hereabout has always been and still is much more expensive than the black
elder copper - the latter looking a lot worse than the uncommon visible iron dragon),
While I am disappointed by how few different colors (2 actually, on just covering the whole body and two white dots for eyes and they calls this one a very rare?!?) were used for this mini, the pose is IMHO the best of any huge dragon since the red in Giants of Legendsbut the Black is sold out,
Because in the end they were basically throwing it you if you didn't close the store's door fast enough At last I saw the gargantuan black being offered as a free extra for buying the Neverwinter Nights 2 (at the discount price of €19.99).Only now that they seemed to have finally gotten rid of their stock of gargantuan blacks the last few left seem to have increased in price.
PS: Or maybe not get your gargantuan black for €17 on amazon Germany
I totally agree about the Elder Copper's pose. That's why I was really looking forward to get that mini. Imagine they had applied a paint job similar to the Large Copper Dragon of the Angelfire set....
Ok, this explains the lack of Gargantuan Blacks in shops.
Does anybody know how Orcus sold? I was hoping that the Icon line might continue given some success with Orcus sales.Does anybody know how Orcus sold? I was hoping that the Icon line might continue given some success with Orcus sales.
I see prices ranging from as low as €39.99 to as high as €89.99 but around €50 seems to the norm
The Beholder set is definitely a test bed to see if this type of completely visible set of iconic minis is economically viable, so if you like the idea and want to see more box sets like it produced then BUY the Beholder set ASAP. If WotC sees high and quick sales, then that will definitely push them to do more products like this.
I for one, WILL be buying the Beholder set.
I entirely agree that its probably a test product to see if other mini marketing models work. I suspect it might work a fair bit better. I mean, look at things like Warhammer - they've been doing themed sets of minis for ages. I don't know if theyve ever done anything else, but theyve sold boxes that revealed whats in them for as long as I can remember being aware of the game.
I definitely prefer all the minis being visible. In fact, I bought an old miniatures game starter pack I found in a store that specializes in older stuff just last week, precisely because it had a mini in it that was perfect for a character I had.
They have only learned that a small number of people will buy repainted stuff but the cheap packaging and the cheap repainting will be a net win for them. They learned that just a enough people will not really read up on thier product and just buy it anyway. They continue to learn that no matter how many people on these boards complain we are a small minority.
After reading all posts on this thread:
They have only learned that a small number of people will buy repainted stuff but the cheap packaging and the cheap repainting will be a net win for them. They learned that just a enough people will not really read up on thier product and just buy it anyway. They continue to learn that no matter how many people on these boards complain we are a small minority.
I'm glad you have all four Beholders. Many do not. The price of acquiring all 4 as singles is vastly more expensive than WotC's repainted rehashes.
1. the price point is insultingly high for four small, cheap repaints.
2. I can only reasonably see myself using two of those beholders.
I'd be tempted to buy it just to send a message to WotC that, yes, it's a good idea to sell non-blind-box miniatures, but I don't have money to just throw away. (And I'm resentful due to the stupid amount of money I've spent on their blind boxes in the past, and I still don't have a [string of expletives] gelatinous cube.)
WotC apparently keeps learning the wrong lesson. Player's Handbook Heroes didn't fail because the miniatures were visible, it failed because the miniatures weren't produced with an eye toward what customers wanted, and the price point was too high for what was being offered.
I mean, there's a theme to the packs that are still warming the pegs at my local gaming stores. The warforged minis were split between different sets, for example, and neither of them was a class to which warforged are suited. Did it occur to nobody to make an Eberron-themed set, or to make, say, a warforged fighter? Tellingly, I haven't been able to find one of those Heroscape sets with multiple warforged.
And how many players, on average, are looking for a tiefling fighter mini? A halfling barbarian? Dragonborn rogue? Dwarf rogue? Eladrin fighter? (In fairness, there were some packs with good, useful selections, too. I have a harder time finding those.)
As to the monster sets... y'know, I don't see a lot of Young Green Dragon packages hanging around. And it was still too high a price to pay when the other four miniatures were random. There's nothing I like less than finding I've blown $15-20 to get one mini I want and between 1 and 4 that I don't. "Oh. It's another stegosaurus I'll never use. Hooray."
(Credit where credit is due: the recent inclusion of well-made, common miniatures people might actually want to use in the real world was a good move on WotC's part.)
Every new 4e DM wants a goblin pack that could be used for several different encounters. Ditto kobolds, skeletons, and zombies. Even WotC seems to have given up, issuing cardboard tokens with Essentials rather than directing new players to buy blind boxes of random miniatures they may or may not ever use.
Which might be fine, but I can't believe, given that Essentials has been largely a smart marketing push, that WotC didn't use the opportunity to produce, say, the miniatures necessary to run the Red Box adventure. Or the one in the Dungeon Master's Kit.
Hell, how much money could WotC have made two years ago if they'd just made a set with all the miniatures you'd need to run Keep on the Shadowfell?
Hell, how much money could WotC have made two years ago if they'd just made a set with all the miniatures you'd need to run Keep on the Shadowfell?
I'd say a token sheet pack would be better - cheaper and easier to stock.
Daniel.
Although I must admit that the iconic Beholder is among the coolest DnD intellectual property, I have rarely if ever needed a Beholder miniature... they just come up so rarely in a game. So, when will I need four ? Especially these "rare" ones. They really are cool figs, even if they are repaints.
Tough decision for me... I'm probably not alone. I'll mull it over a while longer.
One of these days I'll run my beholder world campaign. I envisioned started everyone at 5th level. The world has been taken over by the beholders. Think skynet terminator future/matrix for the setting. The game would start with the party on the run from a beholder hunting group.
OK this sounds pretty darn awesome - count me in
......now if only we could get that gargantuan green dragon......
One of these days I'll run my beholder world campaign. I envisioned started everyone at 5th level. The world has been taken over by the beholders. Think skynet terminator future/matrix for the setting. The game would start with the party on the run from a beholder hunting group.
OK this sounds pretty darn awesome - count me in
Me too.
I was so excited to hear they were putting out a non random set, then I found out it was 4 beholders.
Do I love beholders? Yes (as a DM not as a player).
Do I need 4? No.
Would I spend that much for 4 beholders of which Ill use 1 or 2 from time to time? Never.
So what would I like/buy?
I would buy a pack of 4 iconic monster. 1 beholder, 1 owlbear, 1 displacer beast, and 1 Mindflare.
I would pay that price for an encounter of kobolds I could use over and over again.
In the MM's they have suggested encounters whith different monsters, make iconic encounters in non random sets, of common lvl's so I can buy a pack of minis and run it.
I mean do anything other then have me spend $20(CND) on disapointment.
Anything other then selling me 4 of something I need 1 of, thats just as bad as getting 4 of the same beholder as the headliner to the random packs.
I don't need 4 bosses, I need 4 minions.
The box is really nice, too. It's hinged with fitting artwork and a spot for every mini. Stat cards are provided as well. 40$ well spent for me!
Perhaps a neogi, a pair of umberhulks, and a swarm of thrall minions.